daggeteo
Newbie
 Offline
Activity: 55
Merit: 0
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May 17, 2013, 02:23:43 PM |
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Cool, thank-you!  Are you aware that they emailed JohnyJ and it may not be on Monday now? They were waiting for a part delivery and it may not have arrived before the weekend. Just double check with JJ or Sam as to when or if the meet has been rescheduled... Yes I read that, I'm going to stay informed, although any delay wouldn't be an issue for me. The only day that I won't be able is Friday so keeping my fingers crossed that they get everything sorted out before then. Thanks for mentioning it though! Also I'd like to mention that folks can PM me questions/photorequests and I'll add them myself to the list (for those wishing to be anonymous) Please drop some questions. It's going to be difficult to come up with valuable questions all by myself |
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KS
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May 17, 2013, 05:01:37 PM |
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Sorry if this has already been addressed, but I wasn't reading through this entire thread to find out.
According to specs, the 6GH "Mars" has 48 chips, each having a retail price of $315 USD, according to both of the links provided on their site.
What am I missing here? How do you sell $15K worth of chips for ~$2k?
Depends what version of the (same) chip you buy and whether you buy it directly from the manufacturer or not. Some versions of the chip can be discounted up to 70-80%. (315 USD seems a bit high, I thought I had seen them at around 100 at digikey/mouser) I don't know which exact version of the Cyclone IV E (115K) they are using, but if they are using a "less programmable" one, they might very well buy it for "peanuts". I expect the BOM cum manufacturing would be around 1800 USD. Don't forget that ORSoC already has partnerships with IC houses. |
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KS
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May 17, 2013, 05:03:19 PM |
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1 million USD can only get you 3-4 IT consultants for a year in Stockholm
7000 USD x 1000 = 7 million. 1 IT consultant for 21 years, in Stockholm.  Screw the mining, and pack your bags!!! anyway.... |
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Henchman24
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May 17, 2013, 05:22:32 PM |
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Sorry if this has already been addressed, but I wasn't reading through this entire thread to find out.
According to specs, the 6GH "Mars" has 48 chips, each having a retail price of $315 USD, according to both of the links provided on their site.
What am I missing here? How do you sell $15K worth of chips for ~$2k?
Depends what version of the (same) chip you buy and whether you buy it directly from the manufacturer or not. Some versions of the chip can be discounted up to 70-80%. (315 USD seems a bit high, I thought I had seen them at around 100 at digikey/mouser) I don't know which exact version of the Cyclone IV E (115K) they are using, but if they are using a "less programmable" one, they might very well buy it for "peanuts". I expect the BOM cum manufacturing would be around 1800 USD. Don't forget that ORSoC already has partnerships with IC houses. They have two links to the exact chip they're using (IC CYCLONE IV FPGA 115K 484FBGA). Both links have it listed as $315. http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail&name=544-1468-NDhttp://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=18&y=12&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=EP4CE115F23C8NNot to be rude, but I'm not looking for speculation here. It should be pretty easy for someone from kncminer to provide a definitive answer to such a basic question. |
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Bitcoinorama
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May 17, 2013, 05:34:32 PM |
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Sorry if this has already been addressed, but I wasn't reading through this entire thread to find out.
According to specs, the 6GH "Mars" has 48 chips, each having a retail price of $315 USD, according to both of the links provided on their site.
What am I missing here? How do you sell $15K worth of chips for ~$2k?
Depends what version of the (same) chip you buy and whether you buy it directly from the manufacturer or not. Some versions of the chip can be discounted up to 70-80%. (315 USD seems a bit high, I thought I had seen them at around 100 at digikey/mouser) I don't know which exact version of the Cyclone IV E (115K) they are using, but if they are using a "less programmable" one, they might very well buy it for "peanuts". I expect the BOM cum manufacturing would be around 1800 USD. Don't forget that ORSoC already has partnerships with IC houses. They have two links to the exact chip they're using (IC CYCLONE IV FPGA 115K 484FBGA). Both links have it listed as $315. http://www.buyaltera.com/scripts/partsearch.dll?Detail&name=544-1468-NDhttp://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=18&y=12&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=EP4CE115F23C8NNot to be rude, but I'm not looking for speculation here. It should be pretty easy for someone from kncminer to provide a definitive answer to such a basic question. Email them...? |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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Henchman24
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May 17, 2013, 05:40:49 PM |
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Email them...? Nah, I'll wait for them to answer in this thread. I can't be the only person wondering about this. |
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Bitcoinorama
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May 17, 2013, 05:55:46 PM |
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Email them...? Nah, I'll wait for them to answer in this thread. I can't be the only person wondering about this. Well I know they've stated they won't be making a profit on Mars it's to gain faith that they are capable of producing a product en mass. That much they have stated in this thread before. I forget when and where, but it was obviously after Mars and Jupiter were announced. They weren't considering an FPGA before. That said I'm also under the impression Mars is to raise funds for the ASIC development and that the first round of ASICs has no real profit as a lot is non-recurring engineering costs being covered. After that point they can lower pricing. The reward for those purchasing first is hopefully getting in whilst hashrate provides a strong return. Not too sure what happens with the sale price/ROI after that point, but then neither does anyone right now. Also with respect to Litecoin mining, I was told the scrypt algorithms is larger and more complex than what is required for Bitcoin and requires very fast access to memory. It's not just the amount of memory, and they will be working on that. In any case they also stated to bring the FPGA price down they need to sell 400 units, so economies of scale are a factor as well. Anything more specific you will have to email them, but for sure it's economies of scale and the fact they want to build trust as opposed to profit on this first Mars device. |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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pichadpi
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
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May 17, 2013, 05:59:14 PM |
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Email them...? Nah, I'll wait for them to answer in this thread. I can't be the only person wondering about this. Then don't be disappointed if you don't get a response. To my knowledge, you're the first to bring this up in this thread. However, while they seem to drop in time to time, it would be foolish to expect them to scour every post on every page to see if anyone has a lingering question that needs answering. Please drop some questions. It's going to be difficult to come up with valuable questions all by myself Here is a quick list of requests I'd be grateful to you, daggeteo, or anyone else that will be in attendance, to provide feedback on. Or, if anyone in the community has seen information pertaining to the following, that would be helpful just as well. Videos, at least photos of: 1) Mars unit hashing 2) Mars without a cover/case …shots of the internals if possible 2) Hashing results in the software client 3) The power supply attached 4) A meter read of the power draw at the outlet – hopefully they’ll provide a monitor, or do you have one you could bring? Include a common object for size reference, or a ruler for measurement in the photos/videos. Questions: 1) Is this demo unit built on the final design revision that we’ll see used at the time of full-scale production? 2) When will Mars begin production, if it hasn’t already? 3) Has any development work yet begun on the ASIC modules? 4) (If you’re not able to get a wattage reading from a meter)What is the power consumption on the Mars device? 5) What is the projected power consumption of the Saturn/Jupiter? 6) Do you plan on discontinuing the Mars BTC miners by a certain date or a quantity sold? 7) With this modular design, how will the ASIC units be interfaced with each other, considering that additional devices may be added at a later time? 8 ) Will these connected ASIC devices use a single shared network connection? What about the power? Your Observations: 1) Where are you? Office / Workroom / Lab …? 2) What else is around? Desks (with phones? ..how many?) / Workstations / Machinery …? 3) Who, specifically, is in attendance at this meeting? Do you see other people around as well? 4) How much noise does the Mars device produce? ..perhaps think of something comparative 5) Do you feel much heat radiation from the Mars unit? Lastly, notes, Notes, NOTES! Leave no detail to the fallibility of memory. Better yet, use a voice recorder if you have one or are willing to install one on your phone. Ask before recording, of course. Much appreciated! |
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Bitcoinorama
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May 17, 2013, 06:12:53 PM |
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I actually sent KNC links to this very thread on Litecoin mining I've been watching it closely myself!! |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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Henchman24
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May 17, 2013, 06:28:58 PM |
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Email them...? Nah, I'll wait for them to answer in this thread. I can't be the only person wondering about this. Then don't be disappointed if you don't get a response. To my knowledge, you're the first to bring this up in this thread. However, while they seem to drop in time to time, it would be foolish to expect them to scour every post on every page to see if anyone has a lingering question that needs answering. You know, I honestly don't give a shit either way. I was just pointing out what seemed to be a pretty big pricing inconsistency. However, a lot of people here seem to prefer making investment decisions without all of the facts. I'll leave you guys to it. |
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KS
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May 17, 2013, 06:55:04 PM |
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Geez, you ARE working hard at this. You should ask for a compensation or sth. Don't they have a PR person? Oh wait.... |
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Bitcoinorama
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May 17, 2013, 07:05:42 PM |
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Geez, you ARE working hard at this. You should ask for a compensation or sth. Don't they have a PR person? Oh wait.... So instead of trolling, you've been given a couple of opportunities to provide some worthwhile questions in the past 24 hours and possible justify holding onto your queue placement, but instead your focus is trolling. At least we know your intentions. Mine is to get as many questions answered before being asked to reach in my wallet and pay for something, and that's not happening unless i'm convinced these guys are making ASIC miners and delivering on time. I don't have an axe to grind with KNC, as they have yet to give me reason. I'm also sharing what I find with everyone, so if there are any further questions that need more refined answers, they can also be asked by people attending in person. In case it's slipped you attention, that's likely to be next week. But you keep trolling, it really helps... |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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KS
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May 17, 2013, 07:49:05 PM
Last edit: May 17, 2013, 09:57:11 PM by KS |
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Email them...? Nah, I'll wait for them to answer in this thread. I can't be the only person wondering about this. Then don't be disappointed if you don't get a response. To my knowledge, you're the first to bring this up in this thread. However, while they seem to drop in time to time, it would be foolish to expect them to scour every post on every page to see if anyone has a lingering question that needs answering. Please drop some questions. It's going to be difficult to come up with valuable questions all by myself Here is a quick list of requests I'd be grateful to you, daggeteo, or anyone else that will be in attendance, to provide feedback on. Or, if anyone in the community has seen information pertaining to the following, that would be helpful just as well. Videos, at least photos of: 1) Mars unit hashing 2) Mars without a cover/case …shots of the internals if possible 2) Hashing results in the software client 3) The power supply attached 4) A meter read of the power draw at the outlet – hopefully they’ll provide a monitor, or do you have one you could bring? Include a common object for size reference, or a ruler for measurement in the photos/videos. Questions: 1) Is this demo unit built on the final design revision that we’ll see used at the time of full-scale production? 2) When will Mars begin production, if it hasn’t already? 3) Has any development work yet begun on the ASIC modules? 4) (If you’re not able to get a wattage reading from a meter)What is the power consumption on the Mars device? 5) What is the projected power consumption of the Saturn/Jupiter? 6) Do you plan on discontinuing the Mars BTC miners by a certain date or a quantity sold? 7) With this modular design, how will the ASIC units be interfaced with each other, considering that additional devices may be added at a later time? 8 ) Will these connected ASIC devices use a single shared network connection? What about the power? Your Observations: 1) Where are you? Office / Workroom / Lab …? 2) What else is around? Desks (with phones? ..how many?) / Workstations / Machinery …? 3) Who, specifically, is in attendance at this meeting? Do you see other people around as well? 4) How much noise does the Mars device produce? ..perhaps think of something comparative 5) Do you feel much heat radiation from the Mars unit? Lastly, notes, Notes, NOTES! Leave no detail to the fallibility of memory. Better yet, use a voice recorder if you have one or are willing to install one on your phone. Ask before recording, of course. Much appreciated! -Why only 50.000SEK in capital? (about 5500 EUR, not even funny considering there are so many founders. no penalty for failure, so not much of an incentive for success either) -Who pays for this really, how? -Debt incurred? how much, how long? -Why no ORSoC ppl on the board or directors? (not even deputy directors, only K/C wives or family?) -Is there an employee payroll or just founders? -Why start K&C AB as a consulting/hosting firm with the ORSoC ppl aboard? -K&C AB focus on miners or hosting/consulting? -Where is the real office? K's house, C's house, K & C AB office, another one?? -What about security (data/facilities)? (why self host? no datacenters?) Disaster recovery plans? [careful, no specifics] -What about patents? Potential lawsuits? (are they insured against this?) -Are the founders insured? Does the insurance money cover losses/refunds? Is the company the beneficiary or not? -Expecting more sale outside of Sweden than in, can they finance the VAT in-between tax return periods? -Project % completion? -How much of the production will be financed by preorders? (possible corollary: why not more seed capital?) I could go on... |
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KS
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May 17, 2013, 07:51:32 PM
Last edit: May 17, 2013, 08:23:40 PM by KS |
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Geez, you ARE working hard at this. You should ask for a compensation or sth. Don't they have a PR person? Oh wait.... So instead of trolling, you've been given a couple of opportunities to provide some worthwhile questions in the past 24 hours and possible justify holding onto your queue placement, but instead your focus is trolling. At least we know your intentions. Mine is to get as many questions answered before being asked to reach in my wallet and pay for something, and that's not happening unless i'm convinced these guys are making ASIC miners and delivering on time. I don't have an axe to grind with KNC, as they have yet to give me reason. I'm also sharing what I find with everyone, so if there are any further questions that need more refined answers, they can also be asked by people attending in person. In case it's slipped you attention, that's likely to be next week. But you keep trolling, it really helps... instead of trolling yourself, walk a mile in my shoes. I had to retype + repost the bloody thing 5 times, I'm loosing my connection here! For GOD's SAKE! PS: don't think you can just paint walls of letters and nobody will do anything about it! edit: retyping the post before this one, of course, not the one quoted. and, that might come as a shocker for someone as prolific as yourself, but trolling, while it can be fun, doesn't actually pay the rent, so, sorry if I don't reply to your posts immediately... edit2: and by that I mean post a list of relevant questions pertaining to the KnC operation, of course! |
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Bitcoinorama
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May 17, 2013, 10:12:21 PM |
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instead of trolling yourself, walk a mile in my shoes. I had to retype + repost the bloody thing 5 times, I'm loosing my connection here! For GOD's SAKE! PS: don't think you can just paint walls of letters and nobody will do anything about it! edit: retyping the post before this one, of course, not the one quoted. and, that might come as a shocker for someone as prolific as yourself, but trolling, while it can be fun, doesn't actually pay the rent, so, sorry if I don't reply to your posts immediately... edit2: and by that I mean post a list of relevant questions pertaining to the KnC operation, of course! An issue with typed conversation is it can be hard to determine whether your comments have been facetious or sarcastic, but the smilies have resolved that in my mind. I've certainly been more active on here than I would given the choice, and agreed 'painting virtual walls' certainly does not pay the rent. I've been sat twiddling my thumbs all this week, and the previous whilst swallowing 500mg of penicillin every six hours to treat a throat infection. The fact the weather in the UK has decided to revert back to winter practically has also given me every reason to waste my life on an Internet forum until I can talk again. That aside my stance is hopefully optimistic, as opposed to securely confident so I want to air as much of KNC as possible prior to payment. Payment is a big issue that still needs to be addressees, especially timing of it. Questions need to be asked on when these payments are required to take place. For me it is crucial that we are still covered by some form of payment protection be it Paypal or Credit Card. from what I understand payment won't be requested until prototypes have been proven. Making a prototype and manufacturing en mass to specification is another. Avalon has proven they can make working ASIC miners, but getting them in the hands of paying customers in time has proven to be a difficulty. This for me is the risk. Paypal give a 45 day buyer protection. Will KNC request payment and deliver in that time period? Does that give them enough time to purchase parts needed, assemble and handle the logistics to reach the customers door in that time? |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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KS
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May 17, 2013, 11:40:36 PM |
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instead of trolling yourself, walk a mile in my shoes. I had to retype + repost the bloody thing 5 times, I'm loosing my connection here! For GOD's SAKE! PS: don't think you can just paint walls of letters and nobody will do anything about it! edit: retyping the post before this one, of course, not the one quoted. and, that might come as a shocker for someone as prolific as yourself, but trolling, while it can be fun, doesn't actually pay the rent, so, sorry if I don't reply to your posts immediately... edit2: and by that I mean post a list of relevant questions pertaining to the KnC operation, of course! An issue with typed conversation is it can be hard to determine whether your comments have been facetious or sarcastic, but the smilies have resolved that in my mind. I've certainly been more active on here than I would given the choice, and agreed 'painting virtual walls' certainly does not pay the rent. I've been sat twiddling my thumbs all this week, and the previous whilst swallowing 500mg of penicillin every six hours to treat a throat infection. The fact the weather in the UK has decided to revert back to winter practically has also given me every reason to waste my life on an Internet forum until I can talk again. That aside my stance is hopefully hopelessly optimistic, as opposed to securely confident so I want to air as much of KNC as possible prior to payment. Payment is a big issue that still needs to be addressees, especially timing of it. Questions need to be asked on when these payments are required to take place. For me it is crucial that we are still covered by some form of payment protection be it Paypal or Credit Card. from what I understand payment won't be requested until prototypes have been proven. Making a prototype and manufacturing en mass to specification is another. Avalon has proven they can make working ASIC miners, but getting them in the hands of paying customers in time has proven to be a difficulty. This for me is the risk. Paypal give a 45 day buyer protection. Will KNC request payment and deliver in that time period? Does that give them enough time to purchase parts needed, assemble and handle the logistics to reach the customers door in that time? ^^FTFY & thank god for smileys!  |
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dan99
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May 18, 2013, 02:54:36 AM |
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is monday showing still on?
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opentoe
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1000
Personal text my ass....
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May 18, 2013, 03:11:38 AM
Last edit: May 18, 2013, 03:26:20 AM by opentoe |
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So much (healthy) skepticism in this thread. As someone said, lots of green signals and no red ones here. This is not an attempt at scamming the community. The only question is whether they can deliver; they're obviously on the up and up on their intentions.
Since so many of you feel that they won't deliver, why haven't I seen anyone willing to sell their KNC pre-order?
Let's go, let's have it, who's got one and is now ready to sell it off? If you're convinced it's not worth it, should go cheap too, eh? Let's start some bidding, say 0.005 btc for a pre-order? Since some of you are convinced, apparently, that these pre-orders are less than worthless, and undoubtedly some of the so-convinced have pre-orders, why not?
Penny for your thoughts--dollar for your pre-order.
Hey, I'll sell mine. When I log into my account on the KNCminer website I don't see any order history or anything. Does everyone see that same thing? I thought I use to see my place# in the queue. I do still have my original email that was sent to me. My place in the queue is at the end. It is #341. So this will give me the opportunity when the time comes to be able to buy one of their miners up to 500 units sold. I hope so. |
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