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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3006732 times)
timmmers
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September 10, 2013, 12:27:32 PM
 #8961

Not to really take this off topic but how can it not suit anybody. its free power. looks like a win win senero on that

IT is free, but over time you will do better then free if you own the panels, and some folk may prefer different types of panel in the future. Some people could have those free ones and also some of their own later I suppose.

If anyone's interested they can decide for themselves http://ashadegreener.co.uk/
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September 10, 2013, 12:59:30 PM
 #8962

I never had good luck with oil -- heat transfer coefficient is 3 to 4 times worse for oil, it's messy, it wicks, is more viscous (doesn't flow as well) etc., etc.  Oil is also a pain to circulate well in the tank itself, especially around heatsinks designed for forced air, and don't forget that it wicks.  And it wicks.  Drop a wire into the tank, and have a puddle on the floor in the morning.  4realz.  Anything dipped in oil becomes a pain to rework, no matter how much solvent you use (trust me, it will get on the board even if the board itself is not submerged.  And it *does* have a smell.  There's fun stuff i've only read about -- boiling point ~30 - 40 C, but it costs way too much.  Something like that.

It just needs to be properly planned and executed. The wicking is easily overcome by gravity and wick stops. Usually stuff you plan to submerge, you don't plan to bring out unless it fails. You can get it in bulk, like $2 a gallon or something, even less in some places. As for flow, inexpensive aquarium powerheads do the trick with ease. Mineral oil, and variant oils, are used in high end server racks all over the world. Just needs to be done well.
...

Simply pointing out that it is both difficult and expensive to "properly plan & execute" an oil cooling system -- a likely reason for no consumer implementations being on the market.  Not sure where you're getting $2/gal, the price (bought in 55-gal drums), about as "bulk" as anyone here is likely to buy, is over $10/gal, more like $20, all said and done.  The radiator (cooler, heat exchanger) also needs to be much larger.  While aquarium pumps are likely to work (would have to be several -- this stuff is not water, and we're not filtering for fishies -- we want actual flaw), and i've used them for water cooling (the actual pumps/rotors are often exactly the same), i sure wouldn't sleep well with a Rube Goldberg contraption cooling a big chunk of my monyz.  In short, you have to buy everything you would buy for water cooling minus waterblocks plus tank & headaches.

Finally, having made many all-water/no noise gaming rigs which proved as practical/maintenance free as air cooling, i've never come close to making practical submersion-cooled boxen.  Doing it "right" would cost a fortune.
DPoS
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September 10, 2013, 01:10:57 PM
 #8963

looks special!!

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eestimees
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September 10, 2013, 01:12:35 PM
 #8964

wtf? and they couldn't fit psu inside...  Shocked  I sense custom case business here...

de_ixie
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September 10, 2013, 01:13:25 PM
 #8965

looks like future!

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September 10, 2013, 01:16:21 PM
 #8966

wtf? and they couldn't fit psu inside...  Shocked  I sense custom case business here...

For Saturn, they could. For Jupiter, it would impede airflow too much as the chips would need to sit closer together.

EDIT: Oh, a a big YAY!!!  Grin

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September 10, 2013, 01:17:02 PM
 #8967

wtf? and they couldn't fit psu inside...  Shocked  I sense custom case business here...

for whatever reason critics keep forgetting that KNC is about delivering barebones ASAP -- sure you can dress it up and paint it neon if you like too and put wheels on it

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September 10, 2013, 01:17:33 PM
 #8968

wtf? and they couldn't fit psu inside...  Shocked  I sense custom case business here...

for whatever reason critics keep forgetting that KNC is about delivering barebones ASAP -- sure you can dress it up and paint it neon if you like too and put wheels on it

I wonder can we get refund when sending empty chassis back ? Cheesy

EDIT: i'm just joking, no hard feelings Smiley

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September 10, 2013, 01:19:33 PM
 #8969

wtf? and they couldn't fit psu inside...  Shocked  I sense custom case business here...

for whatever reason critics keep forgetting that KNC is about delivering barebones ASAP -- sure you can dress it up and paint it neon if you like too and put wheels on it

I wonder can we get refund when sending empty chassis back ? Cheesy

might be good scrap metal!

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
btc_uzr
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September 10, 2013, 01:26:54 PM
 #8970

anyone has a clue why there are 2 square holes at the back panel of the miner's case ?

*visible on the last 2 photos

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
vesperwillow
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September 10, 2013, 01:27:44 PM
 #8971

The thermal conductivity coefficient is based on the thickness of the material, not the surface area.  That's why it's measured per meter and not per square meter. You have to do calculus to figure out how much energy will be transferred (but in the case of a flat surfaces it's not difficult)

Yeah flat surfaces are super simple. My emphasis on surface area was in a sitution where you've got a simple bath, say an aquarium or other large rectangular enclosure without an exchanger. The surface area of the liquid will dissipate more heat than the glass, as long as the surface is being churned. The outer medium is a given, you could use fans or another cooler material (water/etc) passing over it to help dissipate heat. (some use glass/acrylic mineral oil box inside of another aquarium, as is one of my designs) But with the liquid surface providing the main cooling, it's surface area which counts. In all of the passive units (ie, not using a proper heat exchanger) I've seen and played with, this was the more important factor. This is how I understood the OP's perspective, simply dropping the boards into a large tank and circulating the oil.

It's why I was encouraging they  not do just that. It's doable with a low power computer, but it's just going to go the way of fried chicken with ASICs without a great dissipation plan.

Anyway, you would definitely need to keep oil circulating in order to keep things cool.  And I think anyone dunking a brand new KnC in a vat of oil is pretty stupid.

I wouldn't think they're stupid per-sé, but they'd need really amazing reasoning to do it. Honestly I'd find a simple watercooling setup (even the pre-built ones) to be just as effective, quiet, and lower maintenance than air cooling. I'd go that route before I dunked ASIC boards.

You should be able to use standard CPU coolers for this so just get some waterblocks if you don't want to go with air cooling.

Yup! Much easier for sure.

Simply pointing out that it is both difficult and expensive to "properly plan & execute" an oil cooling system -- a likely reason for no consumer implementations being on the market.

I think that's part of it, but mainly there's no real market for it. Only a small corner of the tech world really gets into watercooling to the extreme, and only a fraction of them look into submersion--and usually just for the neato factor. There are some consumer kits you can order for submersion of desktop systems, it's just not a popular item at all. Some datacenters use it, as do some other server centers. It's a niche thing.

Not sure where you're getting $2/gal, the price (bought in 55-gal drums), about as "bulk" as anyone here is likely to buy, is over $10/gal, more like $20, all said and done.

I couldn't tell you the exact distributor, just that I've got access to resources to obtain it for super dirt cheap. Maybe I'm not paying the full price, that could be it.

The radiator (cooler, heat exchanger) also needs to be much larger.  While aquarium pumps are likely to work (would have to be several -- this stuff is not water, and we're not filtering for fishies -- we want actual flaw), and i've used them for water cooling (the actual pumps/rotors are often exactly the same), i sure wouldn't sleep well with a Rube Goldberg contraption cooling a big chunk of my monyz.

For what its worth, you can get very high quality, positive flow aquarium pumps. Most of the high end submersion systems use precisely that. I was suggesting the simple pumps for flowing the oil across/around the electronics, not the plumbing.

Finally, having made many all-water/no noise gaming rigs which proved as practical/maintenance free as air cooling, i've never come close to making practical submersion-cooled boxen.  Doing it "right" would cost a fortune.

I definitely would say it's not practical to submerge when considering the other options! Again for asics, air cooling in open case systems makes great sense, especially if they're in a room with air handling. Other than that, I'd go simple waterblock setups if I had an amazing reason to do so.

So it seems you could buy a couple of 600w (or reuse ones you already have) rather than spending mega dollars on one massive overspecced one.

I dunno why so many people are nitpicking about the price of a good PSU. These systems are thousands of dollars, unique, invaluable in ways, and do not have off-the-shelf user servicable parts. But folks are going to be like "aw man, $150-$200 for a power supply? Ugh! man this sucks!"

Seriously folks?

This isn't a knock on you.. I just don't get the mentality.

jimmy3dita
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September 10, 2013, 01:27:57 PM
 #8972

Why ask for a device in fancy pants, when you will throw it anyway after few months?

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DPoS
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September 10, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
 #8973

anyone has a clue why there are 2 square holes at the back panel of the miner's case ?

*visible on the last 2 photos



for the bitcoin chutes silly!  they POUR out!

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
Vedran Yoweri
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September 10, 2013, 01:53:09 PM
 #8974

anyone has a clue why there are 2 square holes at the back panel of the miner's case ?

*visible on the last 2 photos
for the bitcoin chutes silly!  they POUR out!
I was thinking "jet exhaust".  Grin
btc_uzr
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September 10, 2013, 01:54:11 PM
 #8975

anyone has a clue why there are 2 square holes at the back panel of the miner's case ?

*visible on the last 2 photos



for the bitcoin chutes silly!  they POUR out!

ah ok...thought it might be the entrance for the leprechauns doing maintenance on our miner while we sleep..

*fyi: it was a serious question

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
crumbs
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September 10, 2013, 01:59:28 PM
 #8976

anyone has a clue why there are 2 square holes at the back panel of the miner's case ?

*visible on the last 2 photos



for the bitcoin chutes silly!  they POUR out!

ah ok...thought it might be the entrance for the leprechauns doing maintenance on our miner while we sleep..

*fyi: it was a serious question

Something as trivial as routing the power connectors? 
Vedran Yoweri
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September 10, 2013, 02:07:55 PM
 #8977

anyone has a clue why there are 2 square holes at the back panel of the miner's case ?

*visible on the last 2 photos



for the bitcoin chutes silly!  they POUR out!

ah ok...thought it might be the entrance for the leprechauns doing maintenance on our miner while we sleep..

*fyi: it was a serious question
Don't think this was 'designed' for KNC, but just a standard case that was available. So my bets are still on 'jet exhaust'. They make Saab JAS 39 Gripen's there to! 
tarmi
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September 10, 2013, 02:13:00 PM
 #8978

nice box.
the-skeptic
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September 10, 2013, 02:15:20 PM
 #8979

Ruh-roh. Prototype pics on the 10th of the month? I wonder what bitbet is gonna do today?

My suspicion is that the machine in the pictures is a mock up using real PCBs without the ASICs attached. Otherwise there would have been pictures of it plugged in and mining, right?
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September 10, 2013, 02:15:59 PM
 #8980

its not a prototype, but yes it does not have the asic chips.
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