Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[itod]

Bitcoin.com is not a scam, it is a URL. What is scammy about that? Further, in what way does the existence of such make me a scammer?

jbreher, just stop it.

By definition in the Whitepaper Bitcoin is the chain with greatest accumulated PoW.

I disagree.

Bitcoin White paper, first paragraph, Abstract:

Abstract. ..., accepting the longest proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone.

Source: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

I don't get how can you disagree with the definition?

First of all, I don't read the white paper as gospel.  But even if you do, also in abstract: "As long as a majority of CPU power is controlled by nodes that are not cooperating to attack the network,  they'll  generate the  longest  chain  and  outpace attackers." Therefore the abstract itself already says that the longest chain rule is conditional.

Edit from above:
Section 4. is even more explicit:

The majority decision is represented by the longest chain, which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it.

If this isn't proof that using the word "Bitcoin" for anything other then BTC is a scam, I don't know what is.

It's not "gospel", it's definition. You can define other things yourself, but give Satoshi Nakamoto the right to define what Bitcion is.

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[bitserve]

This is ridiculous. The concept of the "longest chain" only has a meaning considering the same difficulty. When you change that (at that point we are talking about a completely different thing longest or not) you can easily get a longer chain with ANY PoW you want. That's exactly what Bcash did, and now it doesn't matter how long they get, because they are using a lower diffculty and... a smaller accumulated proof of work.

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

Bitcoin.com is not a scam, it is a URL. What is scammy about that? Further, in what way does the existence of such make me a scammer?

jbreher, just stop it.

By definition in the Whitepaper Bitcoin is the chain with greatest accumulated PoW.

I disagree.

Bitcoin White paper, first paragraph, Abstract:

Abstract. ..., accepting the longest proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone.

Source: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

I don't get how can you disagree with the definition?

First of all, I don't read the white paper as gospel.  But even if you do, also in abstract: "As long as a majority of CPU power is controlled by nodes that are not cooperating to attack the network,  they'll  generate the  longest  chain  and  outpace attackers." Therefore the abstract itself already says that the longest chain rule is conditional.

Edit from above:
Section 4. is even more explicit:

The majority decision is represented by the longest chain, which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it.

If this isn't proof that using the word "Bitcoin" for anything other then BTC is a scam, I don't know what is.

It's not "gospel", it's definition. You can define other things yourself, but give Satoshi Nakamoto the right to define what Bitcion is.

I would bet that the majority of Core devs disagree with your definition, as would most users if push came to shove (if miners went a different direction from user needs) but hey, I'll try not to derail the thread for 2 nights in a row, so I'll quit this discussion.

[Ibian]

This is ridiculous. The concept of the "longest chain" only has a meaning considering the same difficulty. When you change that (at that point we are talking about a completely different thing longest or not) you can easily get a longer chain with ANY PoW you want. That's exactly what Bcash did, and now it doesn't matter how long they get, because they are using a lower diffculty and... a smaller accumulated proof of work.

That is what proof of work means. The amount of processing power put into it.

[Ibian]

Bitcoin.com is not a scam, it is a URL. What is scammy about that? Further, in what way does the existence of such make me a scammer?

jbreher, just stop it.

By definition in the Whitepaper Bitcoin is the chain with greatest accumulated PoW.

I disagree.

Bitcoin White paper, first paragraph, Abstract:

Abstract. ..., accepting the longest proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone.

Source: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

I don't get how can you disagree with the definition?

First of all, I don't read the white paper as gospel.  But even if you do, also in abstract: "As long as a majority of CPU power is controlled by nodes that are not cooperating to attack the network,  they'll  generate the  longest  chain  and  outpace attackers." Therefore the abstract itself already says that the longest chain rule is conditional.

Edit from above:
Section 4. is even more explicit:

The majority decision is represented by the longest chain, which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it.

If this isn't proof that using the word "Bitcoin" for anything other then BTC is a scam, I don't know what is.

It's not "gospel", it's definition. You can define other things yourself, but give Satoshi Nakamoto the right to define what Bitcion is.

I would bet that the majority of Core devs disagree with your definition, as would most users if push came to shove (if miners went a different direction from user needs) but hey, I'll try not to derail the thread for 2 nights in a row, so I'll quit this discussion.

It doesn't matter who disagrees. The inventor defines what his creation is. If other people change it, then it is something else.

[HairyMaclairy]

Can we go back to arguing about child support?  

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

Can we go back to arguing about child support?  

[itod]

This is ridiculous. The concept of the "longest chain" only has a meaning considering the same difficulty. When you change that (at that point we are talking about a completely different thing longest or not) you can easily get a longer chain with ANY PoW you want. That's exactly what Bcash did, and now it doesn't matter how long they get, because they are using a lower diffculty and... a smaller accumulated proof of work.

It's obvious that Satoshi thought about all this when he repeated the definition several times, including: "The longest chain which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it" in section 4.

He had hard-forks in consideration, so the only thing that he thought of worthy differentiating between forks is what he stated above. There's no other way to be sure which chain is Bitcoin.

[Ibian]

Can we go back to arguing about child support?  

Annoying but necessary. Alimony, on the other hand...

[bitserve]

Can we go back to arguing about child support?  

As long as they are YOUR childs OR ones you FREELY AND CONCIOUSLY opt to support, everything is ok

[Last of the V8s]

Elwar:  can you create colored coins or ERC-20 style tokens?

Colored coins might be possible but a smart contract would still be required. I wouldn't use an ethereum token because I don't want to go down that path and confuse users with ethereums.

Great.  Let me explain myself.  Global equity markets are going to slowly transition onto public blockchains.  It’s going to start this year.  We need to be able to offer equity instruments (eg shares) on Bitcoin or a side chain or second layer. If we don’t, another public blockchain will fill the hole.

The Gibraltar Stock Exchange will probably be the first to offer regulated securities on a public blockchain. Others will follow quickly.  Eventually LSE, NYSE etc will see the writing on the wall.

I don't follow. Suddenly altcoins are a thing? They are so easy to rekt. And the current contenders are full of vulnerabilities.

[El duderino_]

Breaking 24777$ prediction game      FINAL LIST       

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18/12/2021 luckygenough56

UPDATE     AND GOOD LUCK  !!!

lets keep the price going almost half way of the target to reach here

[HairyMaclairy]

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.  There are a bunch of contenders for which public blockchain will win.  It will not be Ripple or Stellar. ETH is the obvious threat but they have their own problems right now. 

[bitserve]

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.

I donno, a lot of legislation would need to change for that happen. Maybe I could envision one blockchain controlled by notaries where they would register property transfers... but not a P2P real estate blockchain with no authrorized third party involvement needed.

[mymenace]

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.

I donno, a lot of legislation would need to change for that happen. Maybe I could envision one blockchain controlled by notaries where they would register property transfers... but not a P2P real estate blockchain with no authrorized third party involvement needed.

companies will make their own coin and shares will be tied to this

[bitserve]

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.

I donno, a lot of legislation would need to change for that happen. Maybe I could envision one blockchain controlled by notaries where they would register property transfers... but not a P2P real estate blockchain with no authrorized third party involvement needed.

companies will make their own coin and shares will be tied to this

But that needs to be authorized/recognized on a higher state/legal level. Otherwise public property registers are the only valid reference, no matter what ANY "blockchain" says.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.  There are a bunch of contenders for which public blockchain will win.  It will not be Ripple or Stellar. ETH is the obvious threat but they have their own problems right now. 

This is inevitably going to happen in one form or another and it's why I'm pretty much a perma bull from a strictly financial perspective. Believing in it (decentralization of power) as a good cause is one thing and that's what got me interested initially. But I wouldn't be going nearly all in if I didn't believe in a very high probability of disruption in the financial markets, and I only keep what I need to sustain myself for the next 5-10 years in fiat.
I just can not see equities not moving into the crypto space within the next decade or two. Traditional brokerages are expensive, inefficient, and annoying.

And then there's venture capital, which the average pleb never had access to before Bitcorn. Kickstarter et. al. were one attempt to change up the VC scene, but they were a massive failure (from a zoomed-out perspective, I'm sure the founders are quite happy). The next wave of crowd-finance had insane fees to the website. And now ICOs cut the middle man out entirely.
So as the market matures and we start seeing some better screening and perhaps escrowed funds that get released in batches based on certain conditions (perhaps via smart contracts) we're bound to not only see an increase in financially literate people, but also an increase in businesses.
Paired with all the other stuff that is going on and coming up in the coming years we're bound to see quite a clusterfuck of interesting things springing up everywhere in a fashion that would put the last decades to shame (if one ignored the fact that they were necessary to get here in the first place).

That being said, I think there's enough space for multiple corns in the field, so I don't consider ETH or other chains as a threat, but rather as a healthy driving force of technological progress and mass adoption. At least I can't deny that the hopes of "getting rich quick by buying the next Bitcorn" didn't contribute to the increase in recent interest, and will do so in the future. Gotta be thankful for everybody who gets hooked on Bitcorn, regardless of how they got into it.

[Wekkel]

I guess the point is what the company involved says, supported by the law. If the law supports a blockchain shareholders register, then the Blockchain rules, also in court. Frankly, I do not see why this simple flat ledger technology will not blow regular exchanges out of the water over time (especially when Digital ID has been sorted out to the satisfaction of authorities).

[Last of the V8s]

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.  There are a bunch of contenders for which public blockchain will win.  It will not be Ripple or Stellar. ETH is the obvious threat but they have their own problems right now. 

Do you mean all the ICO's and erc20 stuff from basically 2017?

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.

I donno, a lot of legislation would need to change for that happen. Maybe I could envision one blockchain controlled by notaries where they would register property transfers... but not a P2P real estate blockchain with no authrorized third party involvement needed.

companies will make their own coin and shares will be tied to this

But that needs to be authorized/recognized on a higher state/legal level. Otherwise public property registers are the only valid reference, no matter what ANY "blockchain" says.

Legislation follows. If there's an economic incentive for using a blockchain it will be used, and legislation will follow along.