Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[explorer]

TERA's old account is in use again. stolen?

Fake TERA seems vastly smarter than real TERA:

The ether can collapse at any time. Like any cryptocurrency.

Cockroach seems vastly smarter than realr0ach

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin.com is not a scam, it is a URL. What is scammy about that? Further, in what way does the existence of such make me a scammer?

jbreher, just stop it.

By definition in the Whitepaper Bitcoin is the chain with greatest accumulated PoW.

I disagree. It is the longest valid chain.  What is valid is up to the collective of users, and different users can have different preferences. Luckily, there is a clear leader in terms of number of users and market cap. However, if bitcoin (core) and bitcoin cash had an equal amount of supporters, we might have a hard time determining which one would be named bitcoin.

Besides your stupid-ass use of bitcoin core to describe bitcoin, and your attempt at confusion by referring to bcash as bitcoin cash, you are also suggesting that the true bitcoin is a product of it's having more networking effects.  

Many of us probably already have heard of the 7 network effects outlined by Trace Mayer, and perhaps many of us would concede that if Bcash were able to gain substantial ground in those 7 network effects, then it would be in better place to be touting itself as the "real bitcoin."  But instead, currently bcash has fuck all in those networking effects, but still wants to tout itself as the real bitcoin.. so yeah, aspirations could meet reality, even though currently bcash remains as an aspirant to become the real bitcoin rather than anything even close to the real bitcoin inspite of it sharing the same prefork history.

This is ridiculous. The concept of the "longest chain" only has a meaning considering the same difficulty. When you change that (at that point we are talking about a completely different thing longest or not) you can easily get a longer chain with ANY PoW you want. That's exactly what Bcash did, and now it doesn't matter how long they get, because they are using a lower diffculty and... a smaller accumulated proof of work.

It's obvious that Satoshi thought about all this when he repeated the definition several times, including: "The longest chain which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it" in section 4.

He had hard-forks in consideration, so the only thing that he thought of worthy differentiating between forks is what he stated above. There's no other way to be sure which chain is Bitcoin.

Satoshi also envisioned that miners would attack the contentious fork with the shortest chain and least PoW and kill it off. But that didn't happen. Because he didn't anticipate that mega miners would contentiously fork and collude to keep said fork alive (along side the main chain), and for selfish or malicious reasons. And then brokers and exchanges decide to help keep it alive as well.

Once this happened, all of the dogma of Satoshi's vision in his whitepaper got nullified. All bets are off, Katie bar the door, the end users now have the power to decide what is Bitcoin. Mega miners have fucked themselves as potential bad actors in the system. Brokers and exchanges have also now made themselves suspect.

Your response here, Torque, seems to support why in the real world, the ability to establish actual networking effects, within the contemplations of the Trace Mayer model become relevant in determining what (which) is the "real" bitcoin.

[Ibian]

You know something is up when I agree with Ibian. 

Yeah.. he's been kind of on a roll, and I had to sink so far as to send him a merit....

We are going to be in more of an alice in wonderland situation if Roach starts making any sense.

Don't worry, he won't. At least not for a while. He is stuck in the rage phase.

Some people never move on from there. But it is not uncommon for it to take a few years. Time will tell.

[HairyMaclairy]

The TERA account is definitely not the real Tera now.  They can barely speak English. Real Tera was quite articulate.

[realr0ach]

Don't worry, he won't. At least not for a while. He is stuck in the rage phase.

Some people never move on from there. But it is not uncommon for it to take a few years. Time will tell.

Nice propaganda guys, claiming anyone that doesn't want to buy your fake money pump and dump is irrational.  It seems you're drinking your own Koolaid now.

Metals are an asymmetric trade where they are right now compared to every other asset on earth.  Shitcoins are NOT.  They're not only overpriced, their real value is $0 due to having zero fundamentals.  They're all designed to centralize, non-fungible, permissioned ledgers.  You cannot call such garbage money.  It never was money and never will be.  

Arguing over what it is if it's not money is pointless.  I would call them just systems of control.  Regardless, they're imaginary, valueless tokens being pump and dumped to try and deceive people and keep them away from real money - silver and gold.

[bitserve]

[19:12:24] · <ben_vulpes> https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.06038 << "on a subset of 3,759 contracts which we sampled for concrete validation and manual analysis, we reproduce real exploits at a true positive rate of 89%, yielding exploits for 3,686 contracts"
[19:20:00] · <shinohai> I'm sure with time they can get that number closer to 100% (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-19#1785157)

If When later this year, someday Bitcoin does another 10x I will "retire" and devote all my time to exploit research on blockchain/smart contracts field. That's when I will start to have real fun.

Looking forward to your research in 2019.

haha, I wish. I know it is perfectly possible that we do have another 10x in 2018 but.... something makes me hard to believe I will be so lucky. Wouldnt even care to wait a few more years for that. Not even if that means 10 years.

ANyway, whenever that happens you have my word you will see some exploits on my name (responsible disclosure ofc).

Some specifics might be helpful here:

1) what do you consider 10x?  $200k BTC or $100k or some number in between?

2) what do you mean by retire, exactly?  Are you cashing out some of your coins in order to invest them into some kin of funded research project?

3) Are you targeting 10x because that provides you with some cushion in the event that BTC prices experience a 90% correction and remain stagnated for a significant period of time, reminiscent of 2014-2016?

4) I do think that any investment plan that relies upon an upsurge of BTC prices does also require planning for a prolonged downturn in prices, too... and probably a 90% correction and somewhat prolonged would be the extreme of such, but really you never know for sure... but seems prudent to have plans and preparations for such within the realm of foreseeable (based on history) possibilities.

I don't like to be very specific to avoid profiling (as if anyone would be interested in profiling me... call me paranoid). I will try though:

1) $100K would be ok. I think I have said I am just a double digit BTC holder. So, even if it has recently growed to some "significant" amount of money for me, I still need a 10x to be a really LIFE CHANGING amount.

Please take into account that I live in Spain, so I basically need only 1/4 the amount of money an american would need for the same lifestyle. Maybe even less.

2) By "retire" I mean locking enough to make sure I can cover the rest of my lifetime even if I don't ever again have any income. It doesn't mean I will really "retire", maybe on the contrary it's a possibility I would even "work" more...... but I would be doing it with absolutely no constrains. It's not that I have many constrains right now, or ever, as I have always work for myself (well... for my clients or my "projects") but knowing I am covered for good would be the real change for me.
No, I don't need to cash anything onto any project, just enough to fund me for good. My research doesn't need expensive tools... at least almost none that I don't already have.

Will I cash out everything if/when target is reached? NO. In that way I wouldn't really be locking ENOUGH but, I do work with probabilities.... Bitcoin is not the only thing that could "retire" me any moment. I would just cash a sustantial amount and bet on the rest on growing... I would have to have very bad luck if, afterwards, not only Bitcoin but all the rest "investments" turn its back on me. If that happened.... I can keep working any time as I have always done on my own terms (basically "as needed").

3) Not exactly. If I were to "retire" ONLY on Bitcoin I would need the full $100K per BTC to make sure I ave enough in case I live much longer than I expect. But as I said, it's not the only thing so I could risk not cashing it all but just a small percent (maybe 10%?) yearly. Only a complete failure of Bitcoin for more than a decade could have the potential of depleting my "cushion". I will accept some risk.... as I accept everyday that it could just be my last day. Risks management on its finest.

4) I don't expect Bitcoin to retire me. I just say that IF it would do a 10x from here, it would have the potential to retire me. Please note that it was "The last of the V8s" who fixed my original post and changed my *IF* from a "when... in 2018". I just don't expect to be so lucky. It will be very welcome though.

I hope that has covered all the questions without giving more information about me than I would be confident. Oh and I already have a nice home, fine car and am completely DEBT FREE (Not thanks to Bitcoin as I have never cashed out a single penny yet). And no children nor family to support. That makes my current needs very modest and easy to fullfill, even if for the rest of my lifetime (not there YET... unless I were to die in a decade or two).

[realr0ach]

Please take into account that I live in Spain

I haven't heard much from Spain in the last several hundred years except for the movie REC (and REC 2) which was one of the best horror movies ever made (watch with subtitles if you can't hablar mexican instead of watching the worse US remake):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGJ_jPKOj1c

[jojo69]

stupid ETH anyway

this is getting expensive

[realr0ach]

While speaking in front of the evil Jewish banking world govt entity, The Council on Foreign Relations, evil Jew Adam Schiff claims Russians are behind the 2nd amendment:

http://dailystormer.name/blood-sucking-kike-terrorist-adam-schiff-says-russians-are-behind-the-second-amendment/

[d_eddie]

Been away a couple of days, the backlog of unread pages is overwhelming. What if we had been mooning already? I cringe.

[d_eddie]

How are we not designed to work 24/7? That's what people were doing when they lived in the woods and that has changed only fairly recently as far as I'm aware.

Well, but we didn't live as long back then.

(hope I didn't mess up with the quote attribution)

[jbreher]

and confusing innocents who are not privy to the closed door shenanigans that took place.

A vanishingly small number. And completely inadvertent. If you're gonna get involved in crypto without doing your due diligence, you're gonna have a bad time. No matter what particular coin.

 for you to suggest that people are not(still) confused about this issue is ludicrous.

Are you seriously trying to claim that anyone that spent more than a Superbowl's worth of time looking into it cannot tell the difference between Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Segwit?

[Icygreen]

sniped

R0ach, do tell, why you aren't taking advantage of such opportunities if they don't come as a surprise. Even if you were to funnel your gains back into what you believe in (silver?).  Is it fear?

But the thing is, he probably is though. He's got a Steemit account and it's documented that he's funneling his proceeds to Bitfinex to trade.  

He's just a fkn troll trader. Probably doesn't even give a shit about silver, he's just trying to a create a bullshit troll persona on this WO thread.

Yep, thanks for pointing that out. I'm surprised I hadn't considered this as much myself.  It's interesting that he shows up when the posts start to get bullish or we go further down the rabbit hole. So... r0ach posts = bullish  
 

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

and confusing innocents who are not privy to the closed door shenanigans that took place.

A vanishingly small number. And completely inadvertent. If you're gonna get involved in crypto without doing your due diligence, you're gonna have a bad time. No matter what particular coin.

 for you to suggest that people are not(still) confused about this issue is ludicrous.

Are you seriously trying to claim that anyone that spent more than a Superbowl's worth of time looking into it cannot tell the difference between Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Segwit?

You're either highly naive, or dishonest to say the least and I think you're smart enough not to fall into the former category. I'm pretty sure that everybody on this thread knows how the masses react to branding and aggressive marketing.

[RoomBot]

Thank you, Ms. or Mr. Whale: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/anonymous-trader-buys-400-million-of-bitcoin-2018-02-16

CCMF!

[d_eddie]

I guess part of it, I refuse to be the sexual property of another, so it would be pretty messed up for me to demand it the other way.

I see things the same way.

However, most of the women I had deals with don't care a bit about being free (as in "not sexual property"). They just care about getting the exclusive rights, and are ready to give up their sexual freedom for it - at least in the relationship negotiation phase. There might be truth in the evolutionary explications for this kind of behavior.

[Elwar]

[19:12:24] · <ben_vulpes> https://arxiv.org/abs/1802.06038 << "on a subset of 3,759 contracts which we sampled for concrete validation and manual analysis, we reproduce real exploits at a true positive rate of 89%, yielding exploits for 3,686 contracts"
[19:20:00] · <shinohai> I'm sure with time they can get that number closer to 100% (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-19#1785157)

If someday Bitcoin does another 10x I will "retire" and devote all my time to exploit research on blockchain/smart contracts field. That's when I will start to have real fun.

Someone got to teach the shitcoiners why "ol' stupid bitcorn" isn't turing complete. Pain is a great way to learn (makes the lessions stick)

Turing complete is ok.... on SIDECHAINS. Main layer has to be simple and secure.

Exactly.

edit: Someone knows when rootstock is supposed to go live / be widely available?

Rootstock had a testnet up for a while in 2017. The mainnet went live in January on the birthday of the Bitcoin genesis block. Mainnet is still in beta which means that they are whitelisting the projects that are running on it (this probably means only revealing the federation address to a few projects that are helping to debug). They said this will be opened up to everyone in a few months.

[Toxic2040]

Are you seriously trying to claim that anyone that spent more than a Superbowl's worth of time looking into it cannot tell the difference between Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Segwit?

Yes..that is exactly what I am claiming, because most mortals wandering around this earth dont have time to look into domain names and ownership rights and what hand is beneath what sock at any given moment. They just want their shit to work and be safe and simple to use. Roger Ver, Jihan Wu and the rest of the "BCash" crew are not stupid. I for one have never claimed that. These are smart individuals with deep pockets and influence with people who have even deeper pockets. The only reason they have gotten to where they are at is they have better business acumen than Bitcoin Core had. And I stress this last point because the tide has turned. Old money has decided..and they have decided what old money always does..take the safe sure route...and that is Bitcoin.

[Elwar]

On the equity thing on the blockchain I think colored coins could work out easily, it's just an entry on a ledger just as good as an entry in some Wall Street database or a line in a book somewhere. The US folks would want to limit who can trade them though, I delved into the legality of Securities far too deeply this past year and the US has very stringent rules (which the rest of the world tends to follow) on whom can or cannot invest.

I am starting to think about the possibilities when combining colored coins and Lightning Network. Perhaps some super easy way of moving your equity, buying/selling on the cheap, perhaps some sort of simple atomic swap from bitcoin to smaller quantity bitcoin (colored coin). I wonder also about the lowest amount of satoshis that could represent the smallest quantity of an equity and still be able to send that over the network.

It can probably be done easier via Rootstock but I'm still trying to track down how easy it is for a user to go from bitcoin to a token on the RSK blockchain.

[Last of the V8s]

First a strange article https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ftm.nl%2Fartikelen%2Fing-tether-miljardenfraude-cryptomunten%3Fshare%3D1
Money trail billions fraud with crypto coins leads to ING

Then questions to the minister
https://www.tweedekamer.nl/kamerstukken/kamervragen/detail?id=2018Z02856&did=2018D05823
1 Are you familiar with the article 'Geldspoor billions fraud with crypto coins leads to ING'?
2 What is your image of Tether and his financial position?
3 Why did the "Taiwanese banks" terminate the relationship with Tether at the time? What normally happens to the balances on the accounts in such a case?
4 What are the rules for ING regarding accepting a customer who has been sent elsewhere? Do you agree that in a case like Tether all alarm bells should go off? Why did ING proceed to acceptance of Tether?
5 To what extent can ING consciously contribute to a crime if Tether is indeed guilty of fraud or another crime?
...
probably just fud/wrong, right?