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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25524575 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (158 posts by 14 users with 9 merit deleted.)
bitserve
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February 19, 2018, 10:36:05 PM

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.

I donno, a lot of legislation would need to change for that happen. Maybe I could envision one blockchain controlled by notaries where they would register property transfers... but not a P2P real estate blockchain with no authrorized third party involvement needed.
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February 19, 2018, 10:42:05 PM

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.

I donno, a lot of legislation would need to change for that happen. Maybe I could envision one blockchain controlled by notaries where they would register property transfers... but not a P2P real estate blockchain with no authrorized third party involvement needed.

companies will make their own coin and shares will be tied to this
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February 19, 2018, 10:45:56 PM

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.

I donno, a lot of legislation would need to change for that happen. Maybe I could envision one blockchain controlled by notaries where they would register property transfers... but not a P2P real estate blockchain with no authrorized third party involvement needed.

companies will make their own coin and shares will be tied to this

But that needs to be authorized/recognized on a higher state/legal level. Otherwise public property registers are the only valid reference, no matter what ANY "blockchain" says.
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February 19, 2018, 10:52:38 PM
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Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.  There are a bunch of contenders for which public blockchain will win.  It will not be Ripple or Stellar. ETH is the obvious threat but they have their own problems right now. 
This is inevitably going to happen in one form or another and it's why I'm pretty much a perma bull from a strictly financial perspective. Believing in it (decentralization of power) as a good cause is one thing and that's what got me interested initially. But I wouldn't be going nearly all in if I didn't believe in a very high probability of disruption in the financial markets, and I only keep what I need to sustain myself for the next 5-10 years in fiat.
I just can not see equities not moving into the crypto space within the next decade or two. Traditional brokerages are expensive, inefficient, and annoying.

And then there's venture capital, which the average pleb never had access to before Bitcorn. Kickstarter et. al. were one attempt to change up the VC scene, but they were a massive failure (from a zoomed-out perspective, I'm sure the founders are quite happy). The next wave of crowd-finance had insane fees to the website. And now ICOs cut the middle man out entirely.
So as the market matures and we start seeing some better screening and perhaps escrowed funds that get released in batches based on certain conditions (perhaps via smart contracts) we're bound to not only see an increase in financially literate people, but also an increase in businesses.
Paired with all the other stuff that is going on and coming up in the coming years we're bound to see quite a clusterfuck of interesting things springing up everywhere in a fashion that would put the last decades to shame (if one ignored the fact that they were necessary to get here in the first place).

That being said, I think there's enough space for multiple corns in the field, so I don't consider ETH or other chains as a threat, but rather as a healthy driving force of technological progress and mass adoption. At least I can't deny that the hopes of "getting rich quick by buying the next Bitcorn" didn't contribute to the increase in recent interest, and will do so in the future. Gotta be thankful for everybody who gets hooked on Bitcorn, regardless of how they got into it.
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February 19, 2018, 10:53:01 PM

I guess the point is what the company involved says, supported by the law. If the law supports a blockchain shareholders register, then the Blockchain rules, also in court. Frankly, I do not see why this simple flat ledger technology will not blow regular exchanges out of the water over time (especially when Digital ID has been sorted out to the satisfaction of authorities).
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February 19, 2018, 10:53:12 PM

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.  There are a bunch of contenders for which public blockchain will win.  It will not be Ripple or Stellar. ETH is the obvious threat but they have their own problems right now. 

Do you mean all the ICO's and erc20 stuff from basically 2017?
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February 19, 2018, 10:53:50 PM

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.

I donno, a lot of legislation would need to change for that happen. Maybe I could envision one blockchain controlled by notaries where they would register property transfers... but not a P2P real estate blockchain with no authrorized third party involvement needed.

companies will make their own coin and shares will be tied to this

But that needs to be authorized/recognized on a higher state/legal level. Otherwise public property registers are the only valid reference, no matter what ANY "blockchain" says.
Legislation follows. If there's an economic incentive for using a blockchain it will be used, and legislation will follow along.
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February 19, 2018, 11:00:49 PM
Last edit: February 19, 2018, 11:11:01 PM by Torque

This is ridiculous. The concept of the "longest chain" only has a meaning considering the same difficulty. When you change that (at that point we are talking about a completely different thing longest or not) you can easily get a longer chain with ANY PoW you want. That's exactly what Bcash did, and now it doesn't matter how long they get, because they are using a lower diffculty and... a smaller accumulated proof of work.

It's obvious that Satoshi thought about all this when he repeated the definition several times, including: "The longest chain which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it" in section 4.

He had hard-forks in consideration, so the only thing that he thought of worthy differentiating between forks is what he stated above. There's no other way to be sure which chain is Bitcoin.

Satoshi also envisioned that miners would attack the contentious fork with the shortest chain and least PoW and kill it off. But that didn't happen. Because he didn't anticipate that mega miners would contentiously fork and collude to keep said fork alive (along side the main chain), and for selfish or malicious reasons. And then brokers and exchanges decide to help keep it alive as well.

Once this happened, all of the dogma of Satoshi's vision in his whitepaper got nullified. All bets are off, Katie bar the door, the end users now have the power to decide what is Bitcoin. Mega miners have fucked themselves as potential bad actors in the system. Brokers and exchanges have also now made themselves suspect.
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February 19, 2018, 11:02:52 PM

Can we go back to arguing about child support? 

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February 19, 2018, 11:03:28 PM

This is ridiculous. The concept of the "longest chain" only has a meaning considering the same difficulty. When you change that (at that point we are talking about a completely different thing longest or not) you can easily get a longer chain with ANY PoW you want. That's exactly what Bcash did, and now it doesn't matter how long they get, because they are using a lower diffculty and... a smaller accumulated proof of work.

It's obvious that Satoshi thought about all this when he repeated the definition several times, including: "The longest chain which has the greatest proof-of-work effort invested in it" in section 4.

He had hard-forks in consideration, so the only thing that he thought of worthy differentiating between forks is what he stated above. There's no other way to be sure which chain is Bitcoin.

Satoshi also envisioned that miners would attack the contentious fork with the shortest chain and least PoW and kill it off. But that didn't happen. Because he didn't anticipate that miners would contentiously fork and collude to keep said fork alive (along side the main chain), and for selfish or malicious reasons.

Once this happened, all of the dogma of Satoshi's vision in his whitepaper got nullified. All bets are off, Katie bar the door, the end users now have the power to decide what is Bitcoin. Mega miners have fucked themselves as potential bad actors in the system.
I'd personally go with any other altcorn before I'd pick up BCash if BTC magically disappeared over night.
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February 19, 2018, 11:04:04 PM

Can we go back to arguing about child support?  
Grin

in some earlier posts on this thread about the number of cases where the father is not the biological father of the child there were extraordinary numbers quoted.

It is around 1.8% in new Zealand and likely to be close to that in many countries -  amuch lower percenatge than other quoted but still a fairly large number when you count them in groups eg children currently 0-15.

Under some circumstances fathers who find out are entitled to refunds of child support/custody payments.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/93634977/Sex-lies-and-a-baby-When-dads-discover-they-aren-t-the-father-after-all
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February 19, 2018, 11:05:42 PM

I'd personally go with any other altcorn before I'd pick up BCash if BTC magically disappeared over night.

Same. Or I'd just sell everything and consider the grand experiment a complete failure.
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February 19, 2018, 11:07:29 PM

I'd personally go with any other altcorn before I'd pick up BCash if BTC magically disappeared over night.

Same. Or I'd just sell everything and consider the grand experiment a complete failure.
The latter would depend on the overall situation for me. I'm not going to stop investing at any point in my life, so the only way I'd stop being involved with cryptocorns would be if they disappeared or collectively turned into BCash.
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February 19, 2018, 11:07:53 PM

I'd personally go with any other altcorn before I'd pick up BCash if BTC magically disappeared over night.

Same. Or I'd just sell everything and consider the grand experiment a complete failure.
Probably that last one. Been a profitable venture for me, even if it ended today.
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February 19, 2018, 11:15:23 PM

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.  There are a bunch of contenders for which public blockchain will win.  It will not be Ripple or Stellar. ETH is the obvious threat but they have their own problems right now.  

Do you mean all the ICO's and erc20 stuff from basically 2017?

Yes.

The legislation to support the changes is coming. It will start in the smaller, more agile countries and spread into places like the US.

The NYSE will be on a public blockchain, hopefully Bitcoin, within 10 years.
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February 19, 2018, 11:17:24 PM

Oh, surprise surprise, the single entity (that's either a Chinese scammer, some bankers at Goldman Sachs, or the US govt) operating on Bitfinex that's rigged the price upwards ever since $200 is now trying to paint the tape upwards again.
R0ach, do tell, why you aren't taking advantage of such opportunities if they don't come as a surprise. Even if you were to funnel your gains back into what you believe in (silver?).  Is it fear?

BTW..  surprise surprise, gold and silver haven't done shit again.  Roll Eyes  Sorry, couldn't resist  Grin

Why would you help the bankers by promoting a designed to centralize, non-fungible, permissioned ledger, cashless society slave system?  The only thing the bankers are scared of is people using physical metals as money.
They're obviously not scared of cryptocurrency whatsoever when evil Jews like Ben Bernanke and Larry Summers promote it.  They want to ban cash and put everyone into a digital prison...and you're helping them do it!  Fuck off to all the little bugmen that support non-fungible, permissioned ledger digital prison over the actual banker cryptonite - physical silver.

There's your future by worshipping fake digital money over constitutional silver:

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February 19, 2018, 11:18:35 PM

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.  There are a bunch of contenders for which public blockchain will win.  It will not be Ripple or Stellar. ETH is the obvious threat but they have their own problems right now.  

Do you mean all the ICO's and erc20 stuff from basically 2017?

Yes.

The legislation to support the changes is coming. It will start in the smaller, more agile countries and spread into places like the US.

Problem is that even if they wanted to meant those tokens to be shares that would make the SEC involved. So, currently, ALL those are just useless tokens with no representation of ownership (of the ICO'ed project).
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February 19, 2018, 11:19:51 PM

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.  There are a bunch of contenders for which public blockchain will win.  It will not be Ripple or Stellar. ETH is the obvious threat but they have their own problems right now.  

Do you mean all the ICO's and erc20 stuff from basically 2017?

Yes.

The legislation to support the changes is coming. It will start in the smaller, more agile countries and spread into places like the US.

Problem is that even if they wanted to meant those tokens to be shares that would make the SEC involved. So, currently, those just useless tokens with no representation of ownership.

The SEC will be involved and will bless it. It will all be fully legit. 
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February 19, 2018, 11:23:03 PM

Shares on a public blockchain are going to be a thing. Real shares.  Like Apple and Amazon and even Berkshire Hathaway.  Not this pretend kindergarten shit we have had so far.

But Bitcoin needs a way to record and transfer these shares.  Like colored coins.  There are a bunch of contenders for which public blockchain will win.  It will not be Ripple or Stellar. ETH is the obvious threat but they have their own problems right now.  

Do you mean all the ICO's and erc20 stuff from basically 2017?

Yes.

The legislation to support the changes is coming. It will start in the smaller, more agile countries and spread into places like the US.

Problem is that even if they wanted to meant those tokens to be shares that would make the SEC involved. So, currently, those just useless tokens with no representation of ownership.

The SEC will be involved and will bless it. It will all be fully legit. 

Well, maybe (a big maybe) in 10 years as you say. I doubt it is even a possibility sooner. I wish I am wrong, as that would probably make me more than "rich enough".... But I just can't see it.
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February 19, 2018, 11:26:14 PM

Read the white paper of the Gibraltar Blockchain Exchange.  Ignore the bit about the GBX and focus on the plans for the Gibraltar Stock Exchange (GSE) to list fully regulated securities on the blockchain. That’s where the real action is.
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