Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

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Look above^^^^^^^^... exhibit A  ^^^^^^^^

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Look above^^^^^^^^... exhibit B ^^^^^^^^

So... bigger blocks mean 'common use of bitcoin everywhere'. But that means the overall price of bitcoin will be lower! So if the advocates of bigger blocks want bigger blocks, they will have to give up high prices!

@Save the RF:  You have a tendency to devolve into a kind of non-comprehension.  Look in the mirror to confirm whether you are bot, or no?   

Surely, bigger blocks are not seeming to be in the cards for bitcoin.... so BIG block nutjobs can whine all that they want about what they believe to be in bitcoin's future - when something like BIG blocks seems to amount to a kind of distracting and not justifiable fantasy.  Segwit and lightning, is likely going to be bitcoin's short term (perhaps several years into the future path forward, and is going to be built upon, and seems to be little to no need for BIGGER blocks at the time being or even in the foreseeable future.).  Bitcoin's price will do whatever it is going to do... which is likely going to continue to go up.

So... bitcoin tends to become a vault stored asset, so... smaller unheard coins will be used for buying coffee from the corner shop or beer from a bar.

Perhaps, there will be some other coins used for smaller transactions, but there no real reason that bitcoin will not evolve in that direction..... We also still have fiat and credit cards, and I don't mind spending my fiat or using my credit cards for some of those purposes, for the time being.  Of course, bitcoin's use and adoption is likely to take quite a few years, so you may be correct that at least in the shorter term, there may be more of a tendency to use bitcoin as a form of store of value... especially when we still seem to have less than about .5% or world adoption, even if there may be some community pockets that have higher adoption - maybe 1-5% in some areas that are more in the crypto space (maybe tech geeks or something?).

Bitcoin will be important just because the miners will be motivated to maintain the network for high fees.

What time frame are you talking about?  Currently miners seem to be incentivized to reap some of the mining reward, but maybe after a few more halvenings, the incentives will move more in the direction of fees... but it seems that currently the 12.5 coins per block seem to be a decent incentive for a lot of them.

So... if noobs want bigger blocks, they will have to go somewhere else.

What makes you think noobs want bigger blocks?  Noobs don't know what the fuck they want, except perhaps an investment that holds value, appreciates in value and maybe provides some various other kinds of control over your money utility.

Because for now the miners seem to decide the fees. And they will pick higher fees as long as someone pays for the security of their assets.

What the fuck you talking about?  Did you fall down and bump your head in bcash landia?  This is bitcoin, helrow?   Have you noticed in the past couple of months that fees have been dropping to nearly nothing and you can get transactions processed for nearly free?  There are miners, who are apparently processing a large number of low fee transactions, especially in recent couple of months.  In recent weeks (and maybe even more than a month now), I have sent several transactions in the 1 satoshi per byte territory and less than 10 satoshis per byte, and those transactions processed quickly... less than an hour in almost all cases... many of my transactions had three confirmations in less than 30 minutes... So yeah, there may be some questions about whether those fast processing times and low fees can keep up during spamming attacks, which likely are going to come again, at some point or another, no?

[criptix]

TA with bitcoin is rationalization of gambling.
What counts is if 7 billion $ flows in to pay for the miners cost, or this 7 billion $ will be taken out coin value. Extremely expensive mining is the biggest flaw of bitcoin. Because of this, if bitcoin isn't expanding, then it will be quickly imploding on the weight of it's mining costs.

That money is spend for the security of the BTC blockchain (mining centralisation is a different question).

[HairyMaclairy]

Amusing for a variety of reasons

[Jacques_Bittard]

Which is why difficulty can fall my dear boy. 

Difficulty may fall, but the amount of equipment built won't fall. Bitcoiners are dumb thinking that difficulty just drops and some people just turn off their machinery. Who will those people be? Most of the bitcoin mining is done by specialized mining companies, that have a very specific business plan and expectations. These companies will go as much in debt as possible, just to keep the machines alive, because considering production logic, just turning off the purchased machinery is the worst option.
First ones to fall will be those, who will run out of credit and their collected coins "that were meant to be sold in better times" will be dumped on the market by bankruptcy proceedings. This will in turn create a chain reaction of price dropping more together with difficulty.
Bitcoin mining is heavily flawed because it's too expensive and it's attributes create an instability timebomb. Satoshi may have been a good coder but he was pretty dumb in economics and finance.

PoW mining would only work if it wouldn't be cheaper to mass-produce coins. Then decentralization would also work. Rewarding mass production PoW mining is idiocy at it's best.

[criptix]

Which is why difficulty can fall my dear boy.  

Difficulty may fall, but the amount of equipment built won't fall. Bitcoiners are dumb thinking that difficulty just drops and some people just turn off their machinery. Who will those people be? Most of the bitcoin mining is done by specialized mining companies, that have a very specific business plan and expectations. These companies will go as much in debt as possible, just to keep the machines alive, because considering production logic, just turning off the purchased machinery is the worst option.
First ones to fall will be those, who will run out of credit and their collected coins "that were meant to be sold in better times" will be dumped on the market by bankruptcy proceedings. This will in turn create a chain reaction of price dropping more together with difficulty.
Bitcoin mining is heavily flawed because it's too expensive and it's attributes create an instability timebomb. Satoshi may have been a good coder but he was pretty dumb in economics and finance.

PoW mining would only work if it wouldn't be cheaper to mass-produce coins. Then decentralization would also work. Rewarding mass production PoW mining is idiocy at it's best.

The bigger the mining operation the greater part of mined coins get sold asap to pay mining expenses.

Private miners are the people who hold and sit on losses.

Again you do not understand where the security of the blockchain stems from.

[HairyMaclairy]

If you think large miners are holding right now, then you dont understand their business model (obviously excluding bitmain’s bcash lol bags).

[Jacques_Bittard]

Which is why difficulty can fall my dear boy. 

Difficulty may fall, but the amount of equipment built won't fall. Bitcoiners are dumb thinking that difficulty just drops and some people just turn off their machinery. Who will those people be? Most of the bitcoin mining is done by specialized mining companies, that have a very specific business plan and expectations. These companies will go as much in debt as possible, just to keep the machines alive, because considering production logic, just turning off the purchased machinery is the worst option.
First ones to fall will be those, who will run out of credit and their collected coins "that were meant to be sold in better times" will be dumped on the market by bankruptcy proceedings. This will in turn create a chain reaction of price dropping more together with difficulty.
Bitcoin mining is heavily flawed because it's too expensive and it's attributes create an instability timebomb. Satoshi may have been a good coder but he was pretty dumb in economics and finance.

PoW mining would only work if it wouldn't be cheaper to mass-produce coins. Then decentralization would also work. Rewarding mass production PoW mining is idiocy at it's best.

The bigger the mining operation the greater part of mined coins get wold asap to pay mining expenses.

Private miners are the people who holdand sit on losses.

Coins will only be sold if the current price is in a profitable level. If it isn't, then those coins are stored and the expenses are covered with debt.
This will create an illusion of bigger value, since the coins are stored not sold, but this illusion will drop very quickly as soon as the miners run out of credit before the coins become profitable again.

[JayJuanGee]

$300 ETH soon

Yep we back at .055 again.

Im seeing that we might even retest .045 lol coz btc is going down.

#rip eth

Maybe you are saying this wrong?

Surely, there is a certain dynamic in which surely bitcoin is the leader, but still bitcoin seems to have some trouble recovering in part because there seems to be some need to shake some of these snot-nosed 13 year olds.... so if weak hands are being shook in the alts - including ETH.. then bitcoin is drug down a bit with them... even while bitcoin remains the pillar of fundamentals.. .. so yeah.... how far will bitcoin be drug down in this quagmire?  Will ETH find a bottom that is in the triple digits... or does it have to go lower..?  If ETH goes that low, will it drag bitcoin down with it too, somewhat?   

At some point bitcoin is likely to recover based on fundamentals, but many of the shit coin scams may bounce back with it, unless the pain of this particular correction is more harsh and enduring upon those shit coins.

[HairyMaclairy]

That’s not how it works sorry.  You may as well give up now.  

As for the shit coins, plenty of them will never bounce again.  It’s all part of the great shitcoin rotation.

[Jacques_Bittard]

It's no point in trying to argue that the hashrate will drop together with the price.
We can jut look at the hashrate history and see that IT DOES NOT DROP together with the price: https://charts.bitcoin.com/chart/hash-rate

Miners are tied down and they continue production with a loss, just because they share the same foolish dream, that bitcoin is too big to fail. But the costs will eventually payed one way or another.

[criptix]

Which is why difficulty can fall my dear boy.  

Difficulty may fall, but the amount of equipment built won't fall. Bitcoiners are dumb thinking that difficulty just drops and some people just turn off their machinery. Who will those people be? Most of the bitcoin mining is done by specialized mining companies, that have a very specific business plan and expectations. These companies will go as much in debt as possible, just to keep the machines alive, because considering production logic, just turning off the purchased machinery is the worst option.
First ones to fall will be those, who will run out of credit and their collected coins "that were meant to be sold in better times" will be dumped on the market by bankruptcy proceedings. This will in turn create a chain reaction of price dropping more together with difficulty.
Bitcoin mining is heavily flawed because it's too expensive and it's attributes create an instability timebomb. Satoshi may have been a good coder but he was pretty dumb in economics and finance.

PoW mining would only work if it wouldn't be cheaper to mass-produce coins. Then decentralization would also work. Rewarding mass production PoW mining is idiocy at it's best.

The bigger the mining operation the greater part of mined coins get wold asap to pay mining expenses.

Private miners are the people who holdand sit on losses.

Coins will only be sold if the current price is in a profitable level. If it isn't, then those coins are stored and the expenses are covered with debt.
This will create an illusion of bigger value, since the coins are stored not sold, but this illusion will drop very quickly as soon as the miners run out of credit before the coins become profitable again.

Yep and this is much more likely for private miners then big mining operations.

The expenses and possible losses are much greater for big mining operations.

Mining at a loss is not feasible and will inevitably lead to closure which leads to lower difficulity and to new mining operations.

The mining space is not homogenous.

[HairyMaclairy]

Because their electricity costs are currently still lower than their revenue, you numpty.  Those miners should’ve been paid off a long time ago. Once it stops being profitable, they can just walk away.

If you’re going to troll, at least apply some brainpower first.

[Jacques_Bittard]

Because their electricity costs are currently still lower than their marginal cost of production, you numpty.  

If you’re going to troll, at least apply some brainpower first.

Yeah, and the electricity costs are still 5billion $ a year (7$ billion overall revenue). And this is the point I was making in the start, that you tried to stear away. Your childish demagogy won't work here. 7 Billion still needs to be payed to miners every year just to keep this crap afloat.

[JayJuanGee]

Pigs will always get slaughtered, and everyone who expected the bullrun to just continue after 2017 Dec, were greedy little pigs who got what they deserve. Same here, with pigs thinking that every little spike upwards marks a trend reversal to a new bullrun. These pigs will also get slaughtered. Everything is the same as 2014.

I nominate JayJuanGee for Lord of the Pigs.

Explain ur selfie roachie poachie.

What makes me a BIG pig, exactly?   

Don't I have a sustainable strategy that involves accumulation of BTC by buying when the price goes down and selling when the price goes up?  Is there something greedy about that?

Am I not gambling on every little turn of the BTC price by attempting to bet everything in one direction or another, but instead I am employing, incrementalism in my buy/sell approach, no?

Are you dissing me, because I don't buy into your more, supposedly conservative, PM point of view that actually doesn't really seem to hold value too well?

It seems that I don't follow your specific "knowledgeable" writings enough in order to understand how you would be arriving at your seemingly nonsensical conclusion to classify me as a kind of BIG pig within the subject matter of this thread.  Explain ur selfie.

[Jacques_Bittard]

Pigs will always get slaughtered, and everyone who expected the bullrun to just continue after 2017 Dec, were greedy little pigs who got what they deserve. Same here, with pigs thinking that every little spike upwards marks a trend reversal to a new bullrun. These pigs will also get slaughtered. Everything is the same as 2014.

I nominate JayJuanGee for Lord of the Pigs.

Explain ur selfie roachie poachie.

What makes me a BIG pig, exactly?   

Don't I have a sustainable strategy that involves accumulation of BTC by buying when the price goes down and selling when the price goes up?  Is there something greedy about that?

Am I not gambling on every little turn of the BTC price by attempting to bet everything in one direction or another, but instead I am employing, incrementalism in my buy/sell approach, no?

Are you dissing me, because I don't buy into your more, supposedly conservative, PM point of view that actually doesn't really seem to hold value too well?

It seems that I don't follow your specific "knowledgeable" writings enough in order to understand how you would be arriving at your seemingly nonsensical conclusion to classify me as a kind of BIG pig within the subject matter of this thread.  Explain ur selfie.

I think that with less caffeine you would be normal.

[HairyMaclairy]

Because their electricity costs are currently still lower than their marginal cost of production, you numpty.  

If you’re going to troll, at least apply some brainpower first.

Yeah, and the electricity costs are still 5billion $ a year (7$ billion overall revenue). And this is the point I was making in the start, that you tried to stear away. Your childish demagogy won't work here. 7 Billion still needs to be payed to miners every year just to keep this crap afloat.

I can keep the entire Bitcoin network afloat on my laptop with a low enough difficulty. What’s your point?

[Jacques_Bittard]

Because their electricity costs are currently still lower than their marginal cost of production, you numpty.  

If you’re going to troll, at least apply some brainpower first.

Yeah, and the electricity costs are still 5billion $ a year (7$ billion overall revenue). And this is the point I was making in the start, that you tried to stear away. Your childish demagogy won't work here. 7 Billion still needs to be payed to miners every year just to keep this crap afloat.

I can keep the entire Bitcoin network afloat on my laptop with a low enough difficulty. What’s your point?

My point is that you probably will in the future.

[criptix]

$300 ETH soon

Yep we back at .055 again.

Im seeing that we might even retest .045 lol coz btc is going down.

#rip eth

Maybe you are saying this wrong?

Surely, there is a certain dynamic in which surely bitcoin is the leader, but still bitcoin seems to have some trouble recovering in part because there seems to be some need to shake some of these snot-nosed 13 year olds.... so if weak hands are being shook in the alts - including ETH.. then bitcoin is drug down a bit with them... even while bitcoin remains the pillar of fundamentals.. .. so yeah.... how far will bitcoin be drug down in this quagmire?  Will ETH find a bottom that is in the triple digits... or does it have to go lower..?  If ETH goes that low, will it drag bitcoin down with it too, somewhat?  

At some point bitcoin is likely to recover based on fundamentals, but many of the shit coin scams may bounce back with it, unless the pain of this particular correction is more harsh and enduring upon those shit coins.

Wrt ETH i think it was obvious because majority of the ICO's will need to liquidate at one point which would lead to a fall.

Shitcoins are just a way to increase your BTC holdings - in the future i imagine only a handful on altcoins that will survive:

Micro transactions, anonymity, smart conracts and x.

[pacman7331]

Because their electricity costs are currently still lower than their marginal cost of production, you numpty.  

If you’re going to troll, at least apply some brainpower first.

Yeah, and the electricity costs are still 5billion $ a year (7$ billion overall revenue). And this is the point I was making in the start, that you tried to stear away. Your childish demagogy won't work here. 7 Billion still needs to be payed to miners every year just to keep this crap afloat.

So what you are saying is that if bitcoin doesn’t go up? It goes down?

  

HOLY FUCK!!!

[HairyMaclairy]

Because their electricity costs are currently still lower than their marginal cost of production, you numpty.  

If you’re going to troll, at least apply some brainpower first.

Yeah, and the electricity costs are still 5billion $ a year (7$ billion overall revenue). And this is the point I was making in the start, that you tried to stear away. Your childish demagogy won't work here. 7 Billion still needs to be payed to miners every year just to keep this crap afloat.

I can keep the entire Bitcoin network afloat on my laptop with a low enough difficulty. What’s your point?

My point is that you probably will in the future.

It will be just me and my 5 million pals. Which apparently will not include you.

I would be OK if Bitmain went broke.