Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bitserve]

Let's say you come up with $1million as nice round number. Again, this could as low as $500K in some countries and just for a very modest lifestyle up to $5 million for US, with many years to live, and with a nice lifestyle.

Daym you need $5m to live in the US?

Even becoming a hnwi is not enough? Fuuck.

Should have gone all in   (aimed for the head)

I am not exactly saying you need $5 Million to live in the US.

$5Million is my *UP TO* / most conservative reasonable figure for living with a NICE lifestyle in the US. It includes the following factors:

- Around 50 years remaining life expectancy.

- Absolutely no other income, retirement pension, or additional net worth.

- No additional net worth also mean you would need to buy or rent a home.

- In the USA housing can be incredible expensive depending on where you plan to live. Maybe you want live in the middle of Manhattan or in... San Francisco? Donno.

- Also health expenses can be EXTREMELY costly there.

- You might get involved in some legal issue, lawyers/trials are INCREDIBLY costly there.

- TAXES... You will have to pay taxes, at least capital gains.

- I considered a "NICE" lifestyle... nowhere near a really a rich (Gatsby style) lifestyle, but still nice.

- Maybe you want to have childrens, pay them a good education... and or have a wife, maybe even divorce her... All that shit is *EXPENSIVE* yo!

- I didn't consider any potential/additional ROI on your capital and/or future investments. That's completely outside of my calculation, otherwise I would have to also take into account the possibility of negative returns or you just losing it all on a lousy investment because of you thinking you are the fucking Warren Buffet. No, I am just considering the principal as if it were a pot from which you would be spending until it gets depleted.

- I allowed for a safe margin (25-40%) of remaining wealth upon your death, be it liquid or your bought home, etc... just in case.


And, taking all the above into consideration (plus many more factors!)... I just took that *MAXIMUM* figure right out of my ass. Because I can.  

[mindrust]

My advantage is that health is dirt cheap here. Doctors are literally working for free. I better get a 2nd passport but still keep my original in case I have a serious health problem.

[bitserve]

My advantage is that health is dirt cheap here. Doctors are literally working for free. I better get a 2nd passport but still keep my original in case I have a serious health problem.

I do also have a GREAT and almost FREE health care here. In Spain $1-$2 million would probably be the equivalent of that $5million for US. Again, depends on many factors.

And yes, one could go with a lower figure if he already has a home, retirement pension, additional income, less years to live, very frugal lifestyle, etc etc...

But the geographical factor is *EXTREMELY* important.

Fortunately I plan to always live here. Not just because of "cost of living" but QUALITY of living... and WEATHER! *Most* of the world (including many parts of my damn country!) is too fucking cold for my taste.

[mindrust]

My advantage is that health is dirt cheap here. Doctors are literally working for free. I better get a 2nd passport but still keep my original in case I have a serious health problem.

I do also have a GREAT and almost FREE health care here. In Spain $1-$2 million would probably be the equivalent of that $5million for US. Again, depends on many factors.

And yes, one could go with a lower figure if he already has a home, retirement pension, additional income, less years to live, very frugal lifestyle, etc etc...

But the geographical factor is *EXTREMELY* important.

Fortunately I plan to always live here. Not just because of "cost of living" but QUALITY of living... and WEATHER! *Most* of the world (including many parts of my damn country!) is too fucking cold for my taste.

Now you mentioned Spain, I was actually considering buying 2 x 500k€ flats in Barcelona and AirBnb the fuck out of them.   (with my imaginary money )

Work while having a vacation. Sounded like a brilliant idea.

[bitserve]

My advantage is that health is dirt cheap here. Doctors are literally working for free. I better get a 2nd passport but still keep my original in case I have a serious health problem.

I do also have a GREAT and almost FREE health care here. In Spain $1-$2 million would probably be the equivalent of that $5million for US. Again, depends on many factors.

And yes, one could go with a lower figure if he already has a home, retirement pension, additional income, less years to live, very frugal lifestyle, etc etc...

But the geographical factor is *EXTREMELY* important.

Fortunately I plan to always live here. Not just because of "cost of living" but QUALITY of living... and WEATHER! *Most* of the world (including many parts of my damn country!) is too fucking cold for my taste.

Now you mentioned Spain, I was actually considering of buying 2 x 500k€ flats in Barcelona and AirBnb the fuck out of them.  

Work while having a vacation. Sound like a brilliant idea.

Not the best of the ideas. Touristic apartments are having a regulation tightening specially in Barcelona. Risky business I would say. You might be earning like a boss this year and the next one be out of the market because of some regulation that forbids you to rent it. In fact that is ALREADY happening.

Also Barcelona (and Madrid) and among the most expensive cities to live in Spain. Higher salaries yeah, but if you are not gonna work there you will just "enjoy" the higher cost of living. Still, WAY lower than US, of course.

About renting... currently the best investment are more "modest" 2-3 room apartments valued from 50 (reform usually needed) to 250K (more premium zones) € that you can rent for 5-10% that. Long term, so hassle free.
Or lousy apartments with many rooms near universities that you can rent to students.

It's a job in itself to take care of your "business" and properties but it's a reasonably safe investment with a good return if you know what you are doing.

[mindrust]

My advantage is that health is dirt cheap here. Doctors are literally working for free. I better get a 2nd passport but still keep my original in case I have a serious health problem.

I do also have a GREAT and almost FREE health care here. In Spain $1-$2 million would probably be the equivalent of that $5million for US. Again, depends on many factors.

And yes, one could go with a lower figure if he already has a home, retirement pension, additional income, less years to live, very frugal lifestyle, etc etc...

But the geographical factor is *EXTREMELY* important.

Fortunately I plan to always live here. Not just because of "cost of living" but QUALITY of living... and WEATHER! *Most* of the world (including many parts of my damn country!) is too fucking cold for my taste.

Now you mentioned Spain, I was actually considering of buying 2 x 500k€ flats in Barcelona and AirBnb the fuck out of them.  

Work while having a vacation. Sound like a brilliant idea.

Not the best of the ideas. Touristic apartments are having a regulation tightening specially in Barcelona. Risky business I would say. You might be earning like a boss this year and the next one be out of the market because of some regulation that forbids you to rent it. In fact that is ALREADY happening.

Also Barcelona (and Madrid) and among the most expensive cities to live in Spain. Higher salaries yeah, but if you are not gonna work there you will just "enjoy" the higher cost of living. Still, WAY lower than US, of course.

About renting... currently the best investment are "modest" 2-3 room apartments valued from 50 (reform usually needed) to 250K € that you can rent for 5-10% that. Long term, so hassle free.
Or lousy apartments with many rooms near universities that you can rent to students.

It's a job in itself to take care of your "business" and properties but it's a reasonably safe investment with a good return if you know what you are doing.

How is renting any different than AirBnb'ing? AirBnb is just another form of renting but only for a few days. I also read that the locals are not liking that their neighbors using their homes as hostels but there shouldn't be any problems if you gather the necessary permits.

I need to do more research before I make my move it looks like.

[bitserve]

My advantage is that health is dirt cheap here. Doctors are literally working for free. I better get a 2nd passport but still keep my original in case I have a serious health problem.

I do also have a GREAT and almost FREE health care here. In Spain $1-$2 million would probably be the equivalent of that $5million for US. Again, depends on many factors.

And yes, one could go with a lower figure if he already has a home, retirement pension, additional income, less years to live, very frugal lifestyle, etc etc...

But the geographical factor is *EXTREMELY* important.

Fortunately I plan to always live here. Not just because of "cost of living" but QUALITY of living... and WEATHER! *Most* of the world (including many parts of my damn country!) is too fucking cold for my taste.

Now you mentioned Spain, I was actually considering of buying 2 x 500k€ flats in Barcelona and AirBnb the fuck out of them.  

Work while having a vacation. Sound like a brilliant idea.

Not the best of the ideas. Touristic apartments are having a regulation tightening specially in Barcelona. Risky business I would say. You might be earning like a boss this year and the next one be out of the market because of some regulation that forbids you to rent it. In fact that is ALREADY happening.

Also Barcelona (and Madrid) and among the most expensive cities to live in Spain. Higher salaries yeah, but if you are not gonna work there you will just "enjoy" the higher cost of living. Still, WAY lower than US, of course.

About renting... currently the best investment are "modest" 2-3 room apartments valued from 50 (reform usually needed) to 250K € that you can rent for 5-10% that. Long term, so hassle free.
Or lousy apartments with many rooms near universities that you can rent to students.

It's a job in itself to take care of your "business" and properties but it's a reasonably safe investment with a good return if you know what you are doing.

How is renting any different than AirBnb'ing? AirBnb is just another form of renting but only for a few days. I also read that the locals are not liking that their neighbors using their homes as hostels but there shouldn't be any problems if you gather the necessary permits.

I need to do more research before I make my move it looks like.

Regulations.

Long term renting has one specific NATIONAL law.

Short term or TOURISTIC (ie AirBNB) renting has a different regulation. More requisities. More susceptible to local council change of rules.

About permits: It is already way harder to get one in Barcelona. And, what is worse... what if you get one and years later it gets cancelled? Know what I mean?

So you if you want to invest in real estate... that's fine, I *LOVE* real estate... but always make sure you do a GOOD long term purchase, not just because you can make like a bandit for a couple years. Make sure (as much as possible) the property will rise in value in the future, and also that it has a good market for long term renting. THEN you can consider to try to make an extra renting short term now... while it lasts!

Also, mind you, short term/AirBNB renting is *WAAAY* more work than long term renting. It's almost like comparing intraday trading to long term hodling

[mindrust]

%5-10 is also sound too good to be true. Is that right?

Can I rent my 250k€ flat for 25k€/year? (even 15k€ is cool)

Why is anyone in Spain poor then? It is because either nobody is rich enough to pay, or everybody already bought their houses?

ROI of a RE investment in some parts of Turkey is as high as 40 years. Minimum 25 years in most cases.

[bitserve]

%5-10 is also sound too good to be true. Is that right?

Can I rent my 250k€ flat for 25€/year? (even 15k€ is cool)

Why is anyone in Spain poor then? It is because either nobody is rich enough to pay, or everybody already bought their houses?

Why you insist on twisting my figures all the time? LOL

10% is the (reasonable) *MAX*... that is if you do a great purchase (first step, bargain hunting, another job in itself), possible with reform needed and you do have some experience in contracting that work (yep, another job in itself), etc etc....

5% is a more reasonable figure for most of the people. And even 2-3% for people that bought high or didn't know what they were doing is not unheard of.

Also, yes, salaries here are not as good as many other countries and many people is not able (or NOT want, people here do LOVE to spend instead!) to save. What they do instead is... Spain is probably the country with the highest ratio of home *owners* in comparison to renters worldwide. But... you can't rent what you use, can you?

Many people have made good fortune buying properties and renting it for around the same amount they were paying as mortgage. A few decades later, it's all YOURS. BUT... you need to have some significant capital first. And every investment has its risks (ask people that bought properties between 2005-2008).

[Cryptotourist]

Add maintenance costs also. They'll be more than you imagine.
Also with one estate you're next to no-where. Minimum two is required, to enter this business profitably.
Finally - as always - it's all about location.

[mindrust]

Add maintenance costs also. They'll be more than you imagine.
Also with one estate you're next to no-where. Minimum two is required, to enter this business profitably.
Finally - as always - it's all about location.

Thanks for making me remember why I don't like RE. Maintenance costs. That was the deal breaker now I remember again.

[Cryptotourist]

Add maintenance costs also. They'll be more than you imagine.
Also with one estate you're next to no-where. Minimum two is required, to enter this business profitably.
Finally - as always - it's all about location.

Thanks for making me remember why I don't like RE. Maintenance costs. That was the deal breaker now I remember again.

True it is, but - at one point - you can probably get subsidies if we're talking about EU.
If you do, it kinda balances out the whole maintenance clusterfuck.

[bitserve]

Oh wow, thanks for the merits mindrust! I am almost Legendary now! weeeeeeeee

And I didn't meant to make you discard nor go all in in real estate. I just say it is a very interesting investment, but you do need to do your homework first, as everything in life!

P.S.: Oh it looks like I also just got a good chunk from The Dude himself! Now that explains the HUGE leap forward in my merit count. Thanks dude!

[El duderino_]

My advantage is that health is dirt cheap here. Doctors are literally working for free. I better get a 2nd passport but still keep my original in case I have a serious health problem.

I do also have a GREAT and almost FREE health care here. In Spain $1-$2 million would probably be the equivalent of that $5million for US. Again, depends on many factors.

And yes, one could go with a lower figure if he already has a home, retirement pension, additional income, less years to live, very frugal lifestyle, etc etc...

But the geographical factor is *EXTREMELY* important.

Fortunately I plan to always live here. Not just because of "cost of living" but QUALITY of living... and WEATHER! *Most* of the world (including many parts of my damn country!) is too fucking cold for my taste.

Now you mentioned Spain, I was actually considering of buying 2 x 500k€ flats in Barcelona and AirBnb the fuck out of them.  

Work while having a vacation. Sound like a brilliant idea.

Not the best of the ideas. Touristic apartments are having a regulation tightening specially in Barcelona. Risky business I would say. You might be earning like a boss this year and the next one be out of the market because of some regulation that forbids you to rent it. In fact that is ALREADY happening.

Also Barcelona (and Madrid) and among the most expensive cities to live in Spain. Higher salaries yeah, but if you are not gonna work there you will just "enjoy" the higher cost of living. Still, WAY lower than US, of course.

About renting... currently the best investment are more "modest" 2-3 room apartments valued from 50 (reform usually needed) to 250K (more premium zones) € that you can rent for 5-10% that. Long term, so hassle free.
Or lousy apartments with many rooms near universities that you can rent to students.

It's a job in itself to take care of your "business" and properties but it's a reasonably safe investment with a good return if you know what you are doing.

@mindrust @bitserve

Its always very difficult how much a person should net worth need to be living whit out worries....  Like parts of the world, metropolitan cities, cheap countries or what ever

Here on how would it be for a poker player, interesting discussion on how much would a poker player need for net income a year to be living and playing the game as a profession....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO4ZNsTOpRE&t=1765s

On who's side would you chose?? Staples or Polk?

They also talk many points you both have said ....  

[LFC_Bitcoin]

Oh wow, thanks for the merits mindrust! I am almost Legendary now! weeeeeeeee

And I didn't meant to make you discard nor go all in in real estate. I just say it is a very interesting investment, but you do need to do your homework first, as everything in life!

P.S.: Oh it looks like I also just got a good chunk from The Dude himself! Now that explains the HUGE leap forward in my merit count. Thanks dude!

I got you too bro!

#gentlemensclub

[nutildah]

Oh wow, thanks for the merits mindrust! I am almost Legendary now! weeeeeeeee

And I didn't meant to make you discard nor go all in in real estate. I just say it is a very interesting investment, but you do need to do your homework first, as everything in life!

P.S.: Oh it looks like I also just got a good chunk from The Dude himself! Now that explains the HUGE leap forward in my merit count. Thanks dude!

Whoops, ended up sending you about 4 extra merits. I do read a bit of Spanish, it was good practice. Don't really get to use it too often. Anyway, congrats on ranking up!

[El duderino_]

Now @bitserve, you can change your writing into

WO-made Legendary 

[El duderino_]

Oh wow, thanks for the merits mindrust! I am almost Legendary now! weeeeeeeee

And I didn't meant to make you discard nor go all in in real estate. I just say it is a very interesting investment, but you do need to do your homework first, as everything in life!

P.S.: Oh it looks like I also just got a good chunk from The Dude himself! Now that explains the HUGE leap forward in my merit count. Thanks dude!

The Dude was waiting on a small replenishment what will happen a bit later today... but mindrust, LFC, uncle tildah where all to fast.... 

[El duderino_]

We got many types of BTC'ers and people fooling themselves thinking they are BTC'ers or whatever....

Homer shows the real thinking of a true BTC'er

[bitserve]

DA FUCK!