Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[rolling]

Doesn't matter what I think, and as you said "people who understand the value of bitcoin". Newbies don't understand shit, but, they do understand metrics like market cap, so it will hurt bitcoin. If bitcoin is not number one on the shitty marketcap metric that will hurt bitcoin adoption plain and simple.

What do the advertisers say? "you don't need a good product, just good marketing"

In that case, bitcoin was fucked from day one. 21 million coins for the entire world economy was never going to work. Most world citizens (>99%) have never had $8750 at one time in their lives. They will never buy bitcoin at that price. They will buy Ripple for $1 instead.

EDIT: Yes, I know they are divisible but the average idiot can't comprehend that.

The real problem though is that the idiots don't understand the importance or decentralization, lack of a central authority, deflationary monetary system, developer talent, trustless, and so on. Bitcoin is the best coin without a doubt in my opinion. But, how in the fuck can we get mass adoption, when most people still think the media, and governments are the good guys. Crypto will get mass adoption, but, I fear that it will be a bullshit coin supported by the banks, media, and governments.

I agree, I think the coins that will do the best with the coming mass adoption will be the ones who have the largest number of coins in circulation so they seem cheap to the idiots. Why buy a bitcoin when you can buy 10 ETH or 8000 XRP for the same price? Luckily, big institutional money will still flow into bitcoin.

[JayJuanGee]

BTC dominance is sinking and sinking.

I don't really like this.

Altcoins are thriving just as before the crash and it gets worst.

Its likely part of a cycle - I (speculatively) can see an alt bubble followed by a BTC surge

Its been a few days since I've checked all the prices and I must say I am stunned that the alts are coming back so hard.

I hope you're right starmman, but, it just doesn't look like BTC will ever regain its dominance to even the 50% level. Hell, look at ripple up 50%, people were wiped out on that recently and it just doesn't seem to matter. I consider most alts to be shit, but, I guess when it's all speculating it doesn't really matter that they are shit.

Altcoins are predominantly denominated in BTC. So when BTC goes up by X%, alts will usually go up by at least X% as well in terms of USD. This will cause people to think that alts are entering a bull run, which might trigger buy orders that will drive up their price in terms of BTC as well, which will ultimately lead to a price rise above the X% of BTC in terms of USD.

Why is that happening only now and not before?

Before people would only pay attention to BTC/xyzcoin trading pairs.

Now we have the copycat namesake and all BCHBCCBcash that is being used to move and pump/dump between alt trading pairs.

BCH and BTG are like us creating another USD and having special interest groups declare it legal tender.

This "trend" needs to be addressed much like fraudulent ICO's have.

This really falls on the responsibilities of the exchanges.

You are describing aspects of the free market, and if exchanges can make money on it, then they will do it.

Sure there could be some issues of politiking and stealing of BTC's namesake, and perhaps much of this will get sorted over time with whatever coin(s) have the best fundamentals... It could take several years for folks to realize some of the differences.... and in the meantime, there is a large bit of wild, wild west out there, including exchanges that also want to convolute and get into the misleading game.

[JayJuanGee]

Doesn't matter what I think, and as you said "people who understand the value of bitcoin". Newbies don't understand shit, but, they do understand metrics like market cap, so it will hurt bitcoin. If bitcoin is not number one on the shitty marketcap metric that will hurt bitcoin adoption plain and simple.

What do the advertisers say? "you don't need a good product, just good marketing"

In that case, bitcoin was fucked from day one. 21 million coins for the entire world economy was never going to work. Most world citizens (>99%) have never had $8750 at one time in their lives. They will never buy bitcoin at that price. They will buy Ripple for $1 instead.

EDIT: Yes, I know they are divisible but the average idiot can't comprehend that.

When bitcoin is $100k or $1million per unit, they are going to be even less affordable, but so fucking what?  Not everyone can own a whole bitcoin, and sooner or later that fact is going to sink in.  Right now, there are quite a few peeps who can relatively easily own 1million satoshis, but later on, even that goal is going to become more difficult for peeps to achieve.  So if they want to be bitcoin rich, they better get their asses onboard earlier rather than putting their money into some scam that may or may not help them in the BTC accumulation arena.

[JayJuanGee]

BTC dominance is sinking and sinking.

I don't really like this.

Altcoins are thriving just as before the crash and it gets worst.

Its likely part of a cycle - I (speculatively) can see an alt bubble followed by a BTC surge

Its been a few days since I've checked all the prices and I must say I am stunned that the alts are coming back so hard.

I hope you're right starmman, but, it just doesn't look like BTC will ever regain its dominance to even the 50% level. Hell, look at ripple up 50%, people were wiped out on that recently and it just doesn't seem to matter. I consider most alts to be shit, but, I guess when it's all speculating it doesn't really matter that they are shit.

Market cap and bitcoin dominance can be a misleading indicator for all the reasons that you already stated... so in that regard, people who understand the value of bitcoin are going to realize that bitcoin is the one to buy rather than gambling on those many other alt coins - and useful also NOT to get distracted by coinmarket cap, at least in terms of informing you about the dominance of BTC's fundamentals in comparison to any (and all) of the other coins.

Crypto War successful and ongoing (block size, transactions, hard forks, media)

create less reliance on bitcoin and more on centralized tokens

pump alts, sell tokens to newbs

create national tokens (russia coin, Petro coin etc), pump for newbs

sell into bitcoin - big pump (Huge) before next battle on bitcoin exchanges (corrupt, broke, no reserves, multiple exchanges as well as other btc scams)

legislate exchange and ban btc to promote national crypto

btc crash and they hope for good

lets see how it all pans out (within next 10 months)

It's going to take a whole hell of a lot longer than 10 months for all of these things to play out.

I agree with you mymenace that a lot of these things are happening and a lot of like things are going to happen in the crypto space and maybe even attempts to target and to undermine bitcoin, but even if a lot of these things happen all over the globe, it does not result in bitcoin successfully being stagnated and repressed, even though there might be some shorter-term and localized successes that might only last a short period of time because bitcoin is all over the fucking place, and there are a lot of governmental difficulties to coordinate, even if BIG ASS financial players attempt to coordinate their attacks on bitcoin, even the BIG ASS financial players are not sufficiently unified to pull off some kind of successful unified repression of bitcoin on a world-wide basis...

TLDR - bitcoin has become too BIG, too decentralized and too strong to kill...  the toothpaste is out of the tube, and it's like trying to kill the internet; good luck with that..

I agree, completely

just mentioning the enemies tactics, usually successful

yeah bitcoin just seems too damn strong a network to change though



and the attacks begin again, just reading this

https://www.rt.com/business/418390-france-germany-bitcoin-clampdown/

From the enemy themselves the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), direct from the IMF

Don't get me wrong.  I cannot see the future with any kind of meaningful precision, and I don't think that any of us needs to see the future exactly.

 I am NOT asserting that the various attacks on bitcoin will not have various successes along the way to stifle bitcoin and to divert to mislead people into NOT buying bitcoin; however, it is also likely that BTC is also going to adapt to these various ongoing attacks - just like there was some adapting that took place within bitcoin because of the various BIG blocker attacks and hardfork attacks - whether from propaganda or actual actions of XT, Classic, Segwit2x, Bcash.. blah blah blah...

With the passage of time, even though various attacks on bitcoin and interest groups against bitcoin can attempt to consolidate and throw more resources at undermining bitcoin, there are also various ways that bitcoin has grown and has become stronger and less centralized and likely to carry on, even if some aspects of bitcoin are taken down by attacks.  

So, certainly, I am NOT arguing that bitcoin is some kind of monolithic existence but instead bitcoin is also like an organism, too.. that is all over the fucking place, and there is no central place to attack... When have we had this kind of new paradigm shifting phenomenon with proof of work spread over the planet and more computing power than any other system... and  bitcoin can grow and evolve too.. including ongoing developments like lightning network seems to cause bitcoin to become even less centralized and more powerful as a decentralized paradigm shifting phenomenon... .. still growing.. still growing.. and maybe even there are some set backs in bitcoin from time to time, too.. but it's pending death or demise is over exaggerated.

[Karartma1]

Doesn't matter what I think, and as you said "people who understand the value of bitcoin". Newbies don't understand shit, but, they do understand metrics like market cap, so it will hurt bitcoin. If bitcoin is not number one on the shitty marketcap metric that will hurt bitcoin adoption plain and simple.
What do the advertisers say? "you don't need a good product, just good marketing"

In that case, bitcoin was fucked from day one. 21 million coins for the entire world economy was never going to work. Most world citizens (>99%) have never had $8750 at one time in their lives. They will never buy bitcoin at that price. They will buy Ripple for $1 instead.
EDIT: Yes, I know they are divisible but the average idiot can't comprehend that.

The real problem though is that the idiots don't understand the importance or decentralization, lack of a central authority, deflationary monetary system, developer talent, trustless, and so on. Bitcoin is the best coin without a doubt in my opinion. But, how in the fuck can we get mass adoption, when most people still think the media, and governments are the good guys. Crypto will get mass adoption, but, I fear that it will be a bullshit coin supported by the banks, media, and governments.

I agree, I think the coins that will do the best with the coming mass adoption will be the ones who have the largest number of coins in circulation so they seem cheap to the idiots. Why buy a bitcoin when you can buy 10 ETH or 8000 XRP for the same price? Luckily, big institutional money will still flow into bitcoin.

Are you guys telling me that if we properly advertise Dogecoin (yes, DOGE, much wow) that is going to be a valuable coin for the masses? I mean infinite supply, so cheap, much fun.
Insane

[JayJuanGee]

Doesn't matter what I think, and as you said "people who understand the value of bitcoin". Newbies don't understand shit, but, they do understand metrics like market cap, so it will hurt bitcoin. If bitcoin is not number one on the shitty marketcap metric that will hurt bitcoin adoption plain and simple.
What do the advertisers say? "you don't need a good product, just good marketing"

In that case, bitcoin was fucked from day one. 21 million coins for the entire world economy was never going to work. Most world citizens (>99%) have never had $8750 at one time in their lives. They will never buy bitcoin at that price. They will buy Ripple for $1 instead.
EDIT: Yes, I know they are divisible but the average idiot can't comprehend that.

The real problem though is that the idiots don't understand the importance or decentralization, lack of a central authority, deflationary monetary system, developer talent, trustless, and so on. Bitcoin is the best coin without a doubt in my opinion. But, how in the fuck can we get mass adoption, when most people still think the media, and governments are the good guys. Crypto will get mass adoption, but, I fear that it will be a bullshit coin supported by the banks, media, and governments.

I agree, I think the coins that will do the best with the coming mass adoption will be the ones who have the largest number of coins in circulation so they seem cheap to the idiots. Why buy a bitcoin when you can buy 10 ETH or 8000 XRP for the same price? Luckily, big institutional money will still flow into bitcoin.

Are you guys telling me that if we properly advertise Dogecoin (yes, DOGE, much wow) that is going to be a valuable coin for the masses? I mean infinite supply, so cheap, much fun.
Insane

hahahahahahaha...



Got a great chuckle out of that one, and I got much wow out of it, too.   

[El duderino_]

 

$1O,OOO BTCBTCstreet price*
#checkmate

Yeah that probably like everyone’s story in here...., So Many naysayers or most Classic ITS TOO LATE NOW ..., i still got a few friends i would like too see Going into bitlandia..... but Yeah iT is what iT is

[conspirosphere.tk]

Dogecoin, an utter joke, always has been, always will be.

At least is still decentralized, and the inflation rate is known. There are several worse scams in the top 10 cryptos, not to say of the rest.

That said, the mass will be always scammed, in one way or the other. But being scammed with shitcoins is an huge progress because it's voluntary, so it teaches responsibility and it let ppl's awareness grow instead of being reduced to spoiled brats of the government.

[NutellaboY]

Yeah that probably like everyone’s story in here...., So Many naysayers or most Classic ITS TOO LATE NOW ..., i still got a few friends i would like too see Going into bitlandia..... but Yeah iT is what iT is

But that means you have less competitors on the market. You can find a positive trait in everything.  
Let people live their lifes, give a chance but if the answer is "no" - let it go.

Dogecoin, an utter joke, always has been, always will be.

At least is still decentralized, and the inflation rate is known. There are several worse scams in the top 10 cryptos, not to say of the rest.

Took the words out of my mouth. It's still lot of garbage coins around and compare to them Dogecoin looks fine.

[somac.]

Yeah that probably like everyone’s story in here...., So Many naysayers or most Classic ITS TOO LATE NOW ..., i still got a few friends i would like too see Going into bitlandia..... but Yeah iT is what iT is

But that means you have less competitors on the market. You can find a positive trait in everything.  
Let people live their lifes, give a chance but if the answer is "no" - let it go.

Dogecoin, an utter joke, always has been, always will be.

At least is still decentralized, and the inflation rate is known. There are several worse scams in the top 10 cryptos, not to say of the rest.

Took the words out of my mouth. It's still lot of garbage coins around and compare to them Dogecoin looks fine.

I'm not saying dogecoin is the worst shitcoin, it was just mentioned, so I used it in my example. Of course there are worse. In the top 10 ripple being the standout.

[Wekkel]

Such hate. Wow.

[supertee]

For me, bitcoin is the shitcoin. First of its kind, but useless. There is better coins for everything on the market. As soon as other coins will be traded agains USD instead of BTC, BTC will be dead.

[Lowryy]

Dogecoin, an utter joke, always has been, always will be.

We have to give them props for being an honest joke. They are not trying to "take over the world" like bitconnect said they would do. They also dont claim attempting to kill btc by saying lies like "unilited scalability with zero fees" or scam people.

When or if you buy doge, you know what you get. So at least they are honest.

[conspirosphere.tk]

For me, bitcoin is the shitcoin. First of its kind, but useless. There is better coins for everything on the market. As soon as other coins will be traded agains USD instead of BTC, BTC will be dead.

Ok then. Good luck putting your life savings in those marvels.

[Roccker]

There was the most Volume since 2016 in the last few days? (bitstamp usd)

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

BTC dominance is sinking and sinking.

I don't really like this.

Altcoins are thriving just as before the crash and it gets worst.

Its likely part of a cycle - I (speculatively) can see an alt bubble followed by a BTC surge

Its been a few days since I've checked all the prices and I must say I am stunned that the alts are coming back so hard.

I hope you're right starmman, but, it just doesn't look like BTC will ever regain its dominance to even the 50% level. Hell, look at ripple up 50%, people were wiped out on that recently and it just doesn't seem to matter. I consider most alts to be shit, but, I guess when it's all speculating it doesn't really matter that they are shit.

Market cap and bitcoin dominance can be a misleading indicator for all the reasons that you already stated... so in that regard, people who understand the value of bitcoin are going to realize that bitcoin is the one to buy rather than gambling on those many other alt coins - and useful also NOT to get distracted by coinmarket cap, at least in terms of informing you about the dominance of BTC's fundamentals in comparison to any (and all) of the other coins.

Crypto War successful and ongoing (block size, transactions, hard forks, media)

create less reliance on bitcoin and more on centralized tokens

pump alts, sell tokens to newbs

create national tokens (russia coin, Petro coin etc), pump for newbs

sell into bitcoin - big pump (Huge) before next battle on bitcoin exchanges (corrupt, broke, no reserves, multiple exchanges as well as other btc scams)

legislate exchange and ban btc to promote national crypto

btc crash and they hope for good

lets see how it all pans out (within next 10 months)

It's going to take a whole hell of a lot longer than 10 months for all of these things to play out.

I agree with you mymenace that a lot of these things are happening and a lot of like things are going to happen in the crypto space and maybe even attempts to target and to undermine bitcoin, but even if a lot of these things happen all over the globe, it does not result in bitcoin successfully being stagnated and repressed, even though there might be some shorter-term and localized successes that might only last a short period of time because bitcoin is all over the fucking place, and there are a lot of governmental difficulties to coordinate, even if BIG ASS financial players attempt to coordinate their attacks on bitcoin, even the BIG ASS financial players are not sufficiently unified to pull off some kind of successful unified repression of bitcoin on a world-wide basis...

TLDR - bitcoin has become too BIG, too decentralized and too strong to kill...  the toothpaste is out of the tube, and it's like trying to kill the internet; good luck with that..

I agree, completely

just mentioning the enemies tactics, usually successful

yeah bitcoin just seems too damn strong a network to change though



and the attacks begin again, just reading this

https://www.rt.com/business/418390-france-germany-bitcoin-clampdown/

From the enemy themselves the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), direct from the IMF

"ECB board member Yves Mersch said on Thursday that “cryptocurrencies” are “not money, nor will they be for the foreseeable future.”"

So we either have a pathological liar or a donkey who doesn't understand what money is in the board of the ECB.

[julian071]

"ECB board member Yves Mersch said on Thursday that “cryptocurrencies” are “not money, nor will they be for the foreseeable future.”"

So we eithr have a pathological liar or a donkey who doesn't understand what money is in the board of the ECB.

Hmmm incompetent or liar? Hard choice, but I vote for liar.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

Doesn't matter what I think, and as you said "people who understand the value of bitcoin". Newbies don't understand shit, but, they do understand metrics like market cap, so it will hurt bitcoin. If bitcoin is not number one on the shitty marketcap metric that will hurt bitcoin adoption plain and simple.

What do the advertisers say? "you don't need a good product, just good marketing"

In that case, bitcoin was fucked from day one. 21 million coins for the entire world economy was never going to work. Most world citizens (>99%) have never had $8750 at one time in their lives. They will never buy bitcoin at that price. They will buy Ripple for $1 instead.

EDIT: Yes, I know they are divisible but the average idiot can't comprehend that.

The real problem though is that the idiots don't understand the importance or decentralization, lack of a central authority, deflationary monetary system, developer talent, trustless, and so on. Bitcoin is the best coin without a doubt in my opinion. But, how in the fuck can we get mass adoption, when most people still think the media, and governments are the good guys. Crypto will get mass adoption, but, I fear that it will be a bullshit coin supported by the banks, media, and governments.

I agree, I think the coins that will do the best with the coming mass adoption will be the ones who have the largest number of coins in circulation so they seem cheap to the idiots. Why buy a bitcoin when you can buy 10 ETH or 8000 XRP for the same price? Luckily, big institutional money will still flow into bitcoin.

I strongly believe that the altcoin market will become a modernized carbon copy of the equity markets. Once revenue participation becomes a factor smart money will flow into whatever is guaranteed to be profitable, and the sheep will eventually follow or get shorn, just like with stocks right now. The substantial differences will consist of more transparency (for established companies), more efficiency (lower fees, no closing of exchanges etc.), and easier access (which will also imply more scams and unsuccessful companies going "public" than with stocks).

The "cheap coin" bullshit that we can see on this forum every so often from newbies will eventually be fixed by "conventional wisdom" of the masses, which will end up as yet another predictor or tool for smart money.

[Dunkelheit667]

Racist is a meaningless buzzword, stating facts is now racist, yes jews control the media, and the banks, that's a fact, get over it.
yes blacks on average score much lower on IQ tests and commit a disproportionately high amount violent crimes?  is that ''racist''? don't know, don't care, but it happens to be true.

OMG People of color score lower on Ethnocentric tests. I'm not even going to dignify the rest of your crap.

Get a grip, you're a racist.

P.S.  This thread is about BTC.

*sigh* no. IQ tests are simply pattern recognition. There is nothing cultural about it. That tired old excuse is... tiresome.

And they do commit more crime. About four or five times as much per capita. Again, easy enough to look up for anyone who actually cares.

Socio-economic status is a far more reliable predictor of IQ test performance.  Low SES children consistently underperform

interesting read. https://pumpkinperson.com/2016/02/11/the-incredible-correlation-between-iq-income/

Yes, interesting read. On the other hand...

When I triple my slave time per day, I could triple my income.
When I triple my slave time per day and move to another part of my country, I could increase my income sixfold.
When I triple my slave time per day and move to a country next to mine, I could increase my income tenfold.

Choosing one of these options will increase my IQ?

I would not deny some sort of correlation between intelligence and income but argue location, EQ, blind ambition and pure chance are more important. The most intelligent individuals surrounding me have an average income (for my area). All high income folks I know seem to have an average intelligence. For sure it will be hard to harvest a high income for people with lower IQ. With other words, a higher IQ will increase your chance to have a higher income, not more or less.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

"ECB board member Yves Mersch said on Thursday that “cryptocurrencies” are “not money, nor will they be for the foreseeable future.”"

So we eithr have a pathological liar or a donkey who doesn't understand what money is in the board of the ECB.

Hmmm incompetent or liar? Hard choice, but I vote for liar.

That would be my vote as well, although I'm not completely sure based on what I've seen even so called quantitative Economists spout in institutions of higher education.