Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bitserve]

Lol, monopoly is more accurate than I thought... They need to make a bitcoin/crypto edition too where bank is non existent in the game, I'm surprised they haven't come up with that yet

Bitcoin won't make banks magically disappear. If Bitcoin succeeds, banks will adopt Bitcoin, and you will use banks.

... banks, central banks in particular, wont magically disappear. They will most likely disappear in spectacular catastrophic collapses, fiatnado firestorms that take large parts of the global economy with them. Or they will disappear with excrutiatingly slow economic stagnation epochs; creating zombie-stumbling, wealth-destroying behemoths roaming the financial landscape preying on anything that looks like growth and suffocating it in command-and-control stymying decline.

Banks in their current incarnation of the modern era only 3-400 years ago came about with the rise of paper money, double-entry book-keeping and credit. Bitcoin's invention of money-as-a-data-type and money-over-internet-protocol makes it hard to overstate the leap ahead these technologies provide versus fiat money, centralised ledgers, fractional reserve custody and command-and-control economic (mis)management through monetary manipulations.

The writing is on the wall for banks, we just don't know what will replace them. A lack of imagination in that regard is no excuse to lazily proclaim that "nothing really changes". It's not unrealistic to expect that now the basic building blocks of money-as-a-data-type and money-over-internet-protocol are demonstrated to the information age, and now being built out to a production ready state, that many of the 'services' of modern financial institutions can be simply replaced by algorithmic tools and machine programmes, i.e. code.

This is a very interesting debate.

There are some semantics involved... What are banks?

Yeah, central banks I guess are those that really do print fiat money (even if by mandate or in according to regulations of their respective governments). Those would be the most affected by wide adoption of Bitcoin, yes.

But then there is "regular" banks. The ones that provide "service" to their clients (business, individuals, etc). Currently most of those don't want to have anything to do with Bitcoin. But I don't think the widespread adoption of BTC would mean they would disappear.  And it doesn't matter if it is the same "brands" that we know and hear about every day... even if those would die in a catastrophical financial collapse, other new ones would replace them.

For example, even in current early stage of adoption, we are seeing how many business are being born around BTC that resemble "banks" or at least some of the services of "traditional" banking: Exchanges, ATM providers, custodial providers, margin/loan providers, debit card providers, etc...

In some way we could even call them "banks" right now, in a sense.

What's the difference if it is called "Banco de Santander" vs "Xapo"?

And what stops "Banco de Santander" buying "Xapo" in the future to integrate it in its core if "traditional banking" stops being profitable for them?

The idea of replacing those services by "algorithmic tools and machine programmes" is great but not only we are not there yet but also some of those services would be pretty hard to replace just by that... Unless we are talking about several decades into the future.

And then there is loans/credit. Which is why banks were born in first instance. As long as there is people that do have "excess" and some others that "need to borrow" some of that excess... there will be "banks". Be it FIAT money with its unlimited printing and fractional banking, be it grains... or be it Bitcoin.

Banks in their current incarnation of the modern era only 3-400 years ago came about with the rise of paper money, double-entry book-keeping and credit

Yeah, I can agree that if Bitcoin succeeds surviving banks would probably not fit into that definition anymore. Also there were banks way before the introduction of FIAT money which proves it is not a requisite to their existence. My opinion is that they would just evolve and adapt to the new paradigm, at least the ones surviving.

For me that's not disappearing but just evolving. Also I think we will see traditional banks (not talking about central banks) integrating Bitcoin in some ways during the next few years... way before the FIAT system disappears (as in cease to exist... not just "another" financial crisis).

It's governments who perverted banks with the introduction of FIAT and "economic policies", not the other way around even if nowadays they dance in unison.

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[Icygreen]

After successfully making the case for non-custodial as a regulatory requirement to be exempt from securities regulations, our next move is to make the case for mandatory Coinjoin (and/or other privacy techniques) as a requirement to comply with Canada's privacy protection laws.

https://twitter.com/francispouliot_/status/1217929523183923201?s=19

He's referencing bullbitcoin,  I believe this platform is truly paving the way in such positive ways. I'd really like to see more just like this available in other countries.
Thankful to be able to participate as a Canadian and support their roadmap.

[JayJuanGee]

The value of gold and silver is not the Comex price, you fools.  Assuming gold and silver were the base of the monetary system with 40% traditional backing and 260 trillion global debt, the price of gold would need to be around 30-40x what it is now ($45,000 - $60,000) with silver at astronomical prices of $900-$3000 (minimum 50:1, maximum 20:1 GSR).

You know what they say about "assuming?"

Kind of reminds me of that word "imagining"


Also reminds me of the concept "pie in the sky" thinking.


Takes a lot of imagining to believe that the world is going to voluntarily go back to a gold-backed system, and to all of a sudden become more responsible in its accounting for gold, the gold reserves and the paper gold.  Sure, it is possible.  Anything is possible.



To me, Bitcoin does not seem to require as much imagining as gold, but hey gold bugs are gonna gold bug... Too bad that they feel that they need to gold bug their lil selfies in the bitcoin thread.

you'd need several wheelbarrows full transported and authenticated to exchange for a decent used car.  

hardly

1000 OZ fits in an ammo can

I get where you are coming from and largely agree, but one can easily carry the value of a good used car in Ag with one hand.

Fair enough, 1000 ounces, approx. 63 lbs/28 kilos valued at $17,900 will likely be the limit for the average able-bodied human and only for short distances unassisted. 4000 ounces valued at $71,600 would be a heavy wheelbarrow load.

those are Troy ounces

68.57 pounds plus the can

yeah, they suck to move

Imagine that you could get the mayor to give you back your pants, and then you strategically slip those silver bars in your various hidden pockets in order to transport them to various locations of your own choosing.  Easy peasy!!!!  I would choose gold, because it will be lighter and easier to avoid detection.

[Lambie Slayer]

The masses are waking up.  

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/lebanese-week-wrath-sees-banks-physically-attacked-large-scale

"Banks and ATMs are now being targeted for vandalism and destruction by demonstrators who have declared a "week of wrath" — specifically in major cities like Beirut. It's now been two months since commercial banks have enacted severe controls preventing large money transfers abroad and restricting clients' access to their deposits. "

Hey bankers, gonna be tough to brainwash these kind folks into thinking Bitcoin is a fad or scam  

"After a month of rain, Tuesday’s protests saw the highest turnout in weeks. Following an extended stand-off in front of the headquarters of the Central Bank, protesters came into conflict with security forces that resulted in at least seven wounded.

...Several people attempted to storm the Central Bank building , breaking through the outer fence and calling for “the fall of the rule of the bank”   and the resignation of Central Bank Governor Riad Salameh. "

Looks like more and more nice peeps are realizing who the real bad guys are and it aint us Bitcoin Boyz.  

"In some cases it appears local security forces have held back or simply ignored instances of mob destruction of bank fronts (after all, the police and their families can't access their accounts either)." LOL

https://twitter.com/gabyawad/status/1217528843172483080 This video gave me a boner. No homo.

[JayJuanGee]

Lol, monopoly is more accurate than I thought... They need to make a bitcoin/crypto edition too where bank is non existent in the game, I'm surprised they haven't come up with that yet

Bitcoin won't make banks magically disappear. If Bitcoin succeeds, banks will adopt Bitcoin, and you will use banks.

... banks, central banks in particular, wont magically disappear. They will most likely disappear in spectacular catastrophic collapses, fiatnado firestorms that take large parts of the global economy with them. Or they will disappear with excrutiatingly slow economic stagnation epochs; creating zombie-stumbling, wealth-destroying behemoths roaming the financial landscape preying on anything that looks like growth and suffocating it in command-and-control stymying decline.

Banks in their current incarnation of the modern era only 3-400 years ago came about with the rise of paper money, double-entry book-keeping and credit. Bitcoin's invention of money-as-a-data-type and money-over-internet-protocol makes it hard to overstate the leap ahead these technologies provide versus fiat money, centralised ledgers, fractional reserve custody and command-and-control economic (mis)management through monetary manipulations.

The writing is on the wall for banks, we just don't know what will replace them. A lack of imagination in that regard is no excuse to lazily proclaim that "nothing really changes". It's not unrealistic to expect that now the basic building blocks of money-as-a-data-type and money-over-internet-protocol are demonstrated to the information age, and now being built out to a production ready state, that many of the 'services' of modern financial institutions can be simply replaced by algorithmic tools and machine programmes, i.e. code.

Hint, hint:  Imagine gold.   

[Lambie Slayer]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cbovaird/2020/01/15/what-really-drove-bitcoins-new-years-rally/#5fc4d40a1c15

"The price just got too low at the end of last year,” said Jeff Dorman, chief investment officer of asset manager Arca. This development “resulted in a lack of selling coupled with ‘value’ buyers. Bargain Boyz” "

“The minimum value at which miners can operate also plays a role because ‘value buyers’ Bargain Boyz will only come in when they think they can buy at the bottom,” he stated."

via Imgflip Meme Generator

With the Halvening so close and the recent pump keeping us out of the Bear channel Im close to being convinced that there will be no more dips into the Bargain Boyz Buy Zone. January is going well indeed.   100k in the next few years is a lock. King Bitcoin will not be denied.

[bitserve]

what impresses me about blockchain.info's exponential growth of wallet users is that it has continued long after them no longer being the only game in town and the absolute proliferation of other bitcoin 'web' wallets out there now.

https://www.blockchain.com/charts/my-wallet-n-users?timespan=all

... Or maybe they are inflating their stats.

I remember when the first big ISP's started here in Spain (around 95) one I knew their owners decided to be the biggest in the country by having as much users as they could.

The price they were charging didn't make any sense because it couldn't cover the variable costs. Also they didn't even care if people opened the account and the bank charge was bounced or stopped making payments afterwards, they never closed any account nor seemed to bother claiming the amounts due. They even gave many accounts for free, (and probably even created thousands of "bogus" accounts themselves). All terrible operational practices that I thought would led them to bankruptcy soon.

... And a few years later they were bought by British Telecom for a **HUGE** price... which was calculated by a fixed amount * Nº of accounts.

Clever guys.

So, there's that.

[Phil_S]

you'd need several wheelbarrows full transported and authenticated to exchange for a decent used car.  

hardly

1000 OZ fits in an ammo can

I get where you are coming from and largely agree, but one can easily carry the value of a good used car in Ag with one hand.

Fair enough, 1000 ounces, approx. 63 lbs/28 kilos valued at $17,900 will likely be the limit for the average able-bodied human and only for short distances unassisted. 4000 ounces valued at $71,600 would be a heavy wheelbarrow load.

And then cops confiscate your wheelbarrow and your silver, because you look hella suspicious.

[mindrust]

PREPARE THE VEGETAA!

Observing $8930

[jupiter9]

Nice. Already 25% increase from the 15th-20th December. The next target 18th January. Maybe a day more or less. Will consider to take some profits.

So far so good. Tomorrow is the 18th. The pivot.

[bitserve]

PREPARE THE VEGETAA!

Observing $8930

Uh Oh! I was so focused doing other things I didn't even notice we are so close!

Thanks for the head up. I do not participate though. I am too slow to take the snapshot, upload it to imgur, etc etc...

Will get some popcorns instead

Good luck!!

[JayJuanGee]

Well, things seem to be moving up again here in the last hour or so. I wonder how much of all this hype to buy 'any coin of any flavor' has to do with the 'obvious' IMHO

massive wash trading on 'sketchy' BSV exchanges. The old saw of buying a little bit of sh*tcoin and compensate by buying more legit crypto out of how dirty you feel (hey don't judge)

but man, whatever you say about BSV, if this is not massive wash trading....well...then the whole BSV pump is befuddling to me....can you say BSV 'exit scam?' IMHO.

Anyway, like the movement even though just getting started. A nice huge weekend pump would make the blizzard the next 2 days in Minnesota go a lot better, let me tell ya!

Maybe rather than attempting to figure out causal relations, or what is leading the pumpening of the various coins, there just might have been some kind of necessity to pump, for whatever reason, or any reason, or no reason?

Of course, there is froth with the various altcoins/shitcoins, but what you gonna do?  If they are capable of pumpening, let them pump.  That value is likely to flow back into bitcoin, even if it could take several months, including considering that the halvening of the various bcash forks come before bitcoin's halvening, so maybe there are some contributory pumpening dynamics there, too?

As I type, we are witnessing a new AYH... as jojo has been pointing out fairly regularly in the past couple of weeks...

Vegeta pics coming soon,^tm  (the next 10 minutes to 10 days are critical^tm) as orchestrated by Funzies LFC Inc.^Tm....  

I suppose as long as we are pumping... there's gotta be some value in that, amiNOTrite?

Edit:  By the way my sub $9k incremental sell orders just filled, next ones at $9,200-ish.... easy peasy... little by little.. sell, sell, sell as the price goes up, but only a little.  That's the mindless system that always attempts to stay ahead of the price moves... The price comes to your sell/buy orders, you do not go to the price..  It's making money in your sleep (kind of), as long as the underlying asset ultimately goes up..

[Hueristic]

....

"In some cases it appears local security forces have held back or simply ignored instances of mob destruction of bank fronts (after all, the police and their families can't access their accounts either)." LOL

https://twitter.com/gabyawad/status/1217528843172483080 This video gave me a boner. No homo.

Holy shit, i just laughed my friggin ass off!

[marcus_of_augustus]

[VB1001]

The Rise of Bitcoin: A Source of Yield

Eleven years and more than six hundred thousand blocks ago… Satoshi bestowed upon us a financial revolution unlike anything in the history of humankind. Few realized it at the time, but now, with each passing block, Bitcoin gets stronger, and more and more naysayers become Bitcoiners.
Scholars will look back on this era and fill pages upon pages with their thoughts and analyses, but they will not characterize this time as “The Death of Fiat.” Rather, they will hail it as the “Rise of Bitcoin.”

https://medium.com/@TantraLabs/the-rise-of-bitcoin-a-source-of-yield-7c87ad81b51f

[JayJuanGee]

Not yet, Marcus...

That's could be deemed "premature injectulation" of Vegeta... Surely Vegeta is watching closely.....   I see $8,998 has been reached, but not exceeded.

[jbreher]

I really thought that it was jonoiv that I was responding to - hence my aggression.

Not like anybody here is going to listen to *my* opinion on this matter, but... jonoiv gotz a bum rap in this thread. Undeservedly.

Well, sorry to hear that.
But he did manage to stand out that day that he spammed WO.

Yeah. He reacted less than graciously. When one ringleader attacked an exaggerated strawman of his position, and then all y'all baby sharks ripped into him, having smelled blood in the water that was not your own.

[jbreher]

Has anybody here ever bought BSV?

Please, be honest guys. I could do with a good laugh.

Don't be coy. You *know* I did.

Laugh all you want.

Just getting started.

Genuinely hope you sell before 3rd Feb. Take your profits (probably handsome profits) and run.

And abandon the truest implementation of satoshi's documented architecture extant? Not on your life.

[LUCKMCFLY]

Very possible scenario.


Via Twitter: https://twitter.com/Josh_Rager/status/1217908906439184390

If BTC is able to find continued support around $8,600 and buyers continue absorbing the significant selling pressure it is currently facing, the crypto could soon see an extension of the massive upwards momentum it has found over the past two weeks.

Source: https://www.newsbtc.com/2020/01/17/this-single-factor-suggests-bitcoins-2020-rally-is-far-from-over/

[jbreher]

I don’t see how it’s [BSV - ed] going to sustain its current price when as expected CW proves NOTHING (again).

See, there you go again. Thinking the most important aspect of BSV is Craig. I know it's trite, but there's a reason the term 'Craig Derangement Syndrome' exists.