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zyk
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February 26, 2014, 11:02:45 PM |
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Could you give some evidence that it is a cover up please? It seems to me that the transaction malleability problem, the hacking problem, the incompetence, the insolvency, they are all a part of the same big shitstorm. Someone was stealing from them by taking advantage of transaction malleability, they were too incompetent to realize it or wrote it off, and now they are insolvent. And yes, they are criminals as well by not doing something earlier. But there doesn't have to be just one big fat criminal in this story; there could be a few. I personally don't think they have the balls to just sell all of our btc, and that idea sounds a little farfetched.
It happened at Gox right in front of your very eyes !You want evidence for a fact??! Who sold those 750 000 BTC under 300 dollars down to a hundred bucks?  ? The fairy -tale japanese Mom and Pop panic sellers ?, Did you sell a single bitcoin under 300 dollar there??? That has only made sense for somebody in the know who couldn´t sell them at stamp...right? Why ? cause KYC ! |
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jwest411
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February 26, 2014, 11:37:08 PM |
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And why didn't Mtgox sell all of those coins at a much higher price? And don't you think that such a move would be far too obvious? I am sorry zyk but even if you were ultimately right, you have more confidence in your theory than the facts warrant.
I have seen to many conversations on this thread start as meaningful discussions and then devolve into unsubstantiated theories and hyperbole. It's not that I think you are definitely wrong, just that I wish we could go back to having a productive conversation about what is going on here, because some of us still have a significant amount of money there so we don't have the luxury of sensationalizing this story by only thinking in extremes. Also I don't see why people rip on his weight so much... he is an asshole...period.
Things I believe to be true:
1) After speaking with Karpeles, Charlie shrem claimed that we (people stuck on gox) can "expect good news" sometime soon.
2) around the time of the btc withdrawals freezing, there were attacks reported on mtgox as well as on other exchanges
3) it may have been possible to exploit the tx malleability problem in order to steal bitcoins from users' accounts without mtgox even knowing.
4) the US attorney's office in new york is subpoenaing mtgox, and the US and Japanese authorities are carrying out an investigation
5) the document outlining mtgox's recovery strategy has never been confirmed as authentic, and its probably fake.
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jwest411
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February 26, 2014, 11:45:41 PM
Last edit: February 27, 2014, 12:03:46 AM by jwest411 |
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I believe they have already started an investigation: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-26/bitcoin-holders-resigned-to-losses-as-mt-gox-faces-japan-probe.htmlSo even if that mtgox recovery strategy document was fake, do we believe the numbers of their defecit being 750k bitcoins? It's all over the major news headlines, but I have yet to see any credible sources. Also, re: the confirmation that the document was true: That report was done by fox news, the news organization with possibly the least credibility of any in the US. Furthermore, Kerpeles did not confirm the authenticity of the document. On the contrary, he flat out denied it. Quoth fox news: "In the IRC obtained by FOX Business, Karpeles denies the document was produced by Mt. Gox, but confirms that it is “more or less” legitimate. " Note that the only thing in quotes is "more or less", not even the whole phrase "more or less legitimate". Which means it was probably taken completely out of context in classic fox style. So not only are we getting goxed, we are getting "foxed'. Can anyone find a source claiming gox owes 750k btc which cites any source other than the two bit idiot? |
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itsunderstood
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American1973
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February 27, 2014, 12:16:09 AM |
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[...]
Can anyone find a source claiming gox owes 750k btc which cites any source other than the two bit idiot?
No, because they are all asscovering, legally-mandated or otherwise, and therefore, are not saying shit. |
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ibna
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February 27, 2014, 12:19:44 AM |
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After reading that someone got money from a withdrawal of the 9th January. I made a euro withdrawal on January 11th but didn’t get anything so far. Will let you know if it changes.
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theomar
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February 27, 2014, 12:25:59 AM |
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Karpeles has a lot of bitcoins. He is an early adopter and he was running one of the biggest exchanges. He must have more than 100k btc for himself in cold storage which was not related with mtgox. He is not an idiot he is told to pretend it. For sure a lot of bitcoins may have been lost but the problem here is the trust. If mtgox enable bitcoin withdrawals and the 550k costomers or a portion of them loose trust and try to sell their bitcoins then the price will go down down down... So the best strategy for him and for big investors is to claim that all btc had been lost if the majority eat that manipulation. The "leaked" document and the irc conversion is for testing reactions.
Pure manipulation...
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jwest411
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February 27, 2014, 12:27:06 AM |
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yes, I agree. So it is best to ignore everything related to that document. unfortunately when there is no news for long enough, people just make it up.
The way I see it (and yes I have an optimist's bias) is that document is completely fake, and you ignore the wave of misinformation it has created, the situation is really no different than a couple of weeks ago. Except they are now no longer collecting transaction fees or engaging in insider trading because someone gave them a timeout.
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jack0m
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February 27, 2014, 12:34:19 AM |
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Sturle's last post was made 22 feb. What's happening Sturle?
 don't worry, he didn't get lost. Just "temporarily unavailable" |
Money is a hoax. Debt is slavery. Consumerism is toxic.
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zyk
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February 27, 2014, 12:44:47 AM |
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And why didn't Mtgox sell all of those coins at a much higher price? And don't you think that such a move would be far too obvious? I am sorry zyk but even if you were ultimately right, you have more confidence in your theory than the facts warrant.
I have seen to many conversations on this thread start as meaningful discussions and then devolve into unsubstantiated theories and hyperbole. It's not that I think you are definitely wrong, just that I wish we could go back to having a productive conversation about what is going on here, because some of us still have a significant amount of money there so we don't have the luxury of sensationalizing this story by only thinking in extremes. Also I don't see why people rip on his weight so much... he is an asshole...period.
Things I believe to be true:
1) After speaking with Karpeles, Charlie shrem claimed that we (people stuck on gox) can "expect good news" sometime soon.
2) around the time of the btc withdrawals freezing, there were attacks reported on mtgox as well as on other exchanges
3) it may have been possible to exploit the tx malleability problem in order to steal bitcoins from users' accounts without mtgox even knowing.
4) the US attorney's office in new york is subpoenaing mtgox, and the US and Japanese authorities are carrying out an investigation
5) the document outlining mtgox's recovery strategy has never been confirmed as authentic, and its probably fake.
Sorry that I need to debunk every one of your five fairy -tale hopes... they are all made for you people who have been outright robbed to stuck in your paralysed denial phase rather than take your anger and get those accounts of Gox Japan limited frozen and of Gox Poland plc and the trading-data secured..and the insider scumbags in jail !...its unbelievable that the ponzi keeps going even as the webside already went dark- ! Please show me one single panic - seller on this forum who sold BTC for under 300 dollars at Gox given that he hasn´t bought them for a hundred before ;-) You can´t debunk that fact and absolutly need to stop denialing the rationalisations which are delivered by this fact : You are being played and not by Karpeles alone....may this boy of honesty Charlie Shremp be even part of the gang perhaps? You haven´t gotten the memo even from Karpeles himself that the recovery document is legit ? Still it has been leaked on purpose to blindsight you again ! Subpoenas will be used to deny you the acces to this crucial trading data and not to help you recovering the funds. You are gaining nothing by this warm and fuzzy hope feeling --- get together and act ! |
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zyk
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February 27, 2014, 01:04:48 AM |
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If that still has not sunk in...the stolen funds couldn´t get sold at a higher price at bitstamp and its not Mt. Gox you are needing to go
against as there will come nothing anymore out of this hollowed out shell besides the crumps the Sepa queue is still spinning off (that
has a legal reason as well to prevent forced bankrupcy proceedings).
You need to get the proving trading data of this sell-off and the accounts records !- all else everything is lost and the thiefs will
present you any story to ride in the sunset !
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zyk
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February 27, 2014, 01:20:18 AM |
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Karpeles has a lot of bitcoins. He is an early adopter and he was running one of the biggest exchanges. He must have more than 100k btc for himself in cold storage which was not related with mtgox. He is not an idiot he is told to pretend it. For sure a lot of bitcoins may have been lost but the problem here is the trust. If mtgox enable bitcoin withdrawals and the 550k costomers or a portion of them loose trust and try to sell their bitcoins then the price will go down down down... So the best strategy for him and for big investors is to claim that all btc had been lost if the majority eat that manipulation. The "leaked" document and the irc conversion is for testing reactions.
Pure manipulation...
Thats fitting and is why those whales are very well aware that bitcoin as an asset will get destroyed in the aftermaths of this dying ponzi......all confidence to trade with each other on any exchange will be lost. |
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jwest411
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February 27, 2014, 02:05:20 AM |
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Zyk... you said you were going to debunk the statement I made, but you didn't. Instead you spread fallacious claims. Did you not read my last post? Karpeles NEVER SAID THAT DOCUMENT WAS AUTHENTIC.
Furthermore, your argument is that you don't need evidence because it is a "fact" that no one sold under 300. Unfortunately, you forget that the very definition of a fact is something that can and has been proven with evidence. A lack of counterexample is not proof.
please srop allowing your anger to distort the truth.
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Beans
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February 27, 2014, 02:13:51 AM |
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BitPaulo
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February 27, 2014, 02:15:24 AM |
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[/quote]
...its unbelievable that the ponzi keeps going even as the webside already went dark- ! Please show me one single panic - seller on this forum
who sold BTC for under 300 dollars at Gox given that he hasn´t bought them for a hundred before ;-) You can´t debunk that fact and
absolutly need to stop denialing the rationalisations which are delivered by this fact : You are being played and not by Karpeles
alone....
[/quote]
Well, I am one of those of sold my BTC for less than $300, I think many people were panic selling, it was clear that things will not go well in the near future. I lost half my investment on Gox and managed to get BTC out through bitcoinbuilder at 0.3 rate. do you think I am happy??
I am sure there are plenty people like me who did this.
so here it is.
I think many people are getting fucked and giving the opportunity many people are fucking other people.
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zyk
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February 27, 2014, 02:52:38 AM |
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Zyk... you said you were going to debunk the statement I made, but you didn't. Instead you spread fallacious claims. Did you not read my last post? Karpeles NEVER SAID THAT DOCUMENT WAS AUTHENTIC.
Furthermore, your argument is that you don't need evidence because it is a "fact" that no one sold under 300. Unfortunately, you forget that the very definition of a fact is something that can and has been proven with evidence. A lack of counterexample is not proof.
please srop allowing your anger to distort the truth.
The truth will come up in hindsight and that is that the thiefs sold 750000 BTC when withdrawls were halted and the inside crew was made aware of Gox insolvency . The proceeds of this selling were sent off- shore . This is still being hidden as we speak by take-over nonsense and draft papers and subpoenas and sleeping cats and buying back debts for pennies on the dollar and so and on and on.. Am sad that all of you rather want to be blindsighted by BS and lose your funds and sad for the complete loss of confidence in bitcoin which will ensue should this heist will be pushed through without punishment for the perpetrators. And even as there is BitPaulo as a counterexample which disproves what I exageratly said - the evidence in the trading records would show you where your money went --- as there still won´t be 750000 BitPaulos to be found and I desperatly want to see them. |
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bananas
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February 27, 2014, 02:56:06 AM |
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Glue this poster everywhere you can  |
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zyk
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February 27, 2014, 02:57:25 AM |
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...its unbelievable that the ponzi keeps going even as the webside already went dark- ! Please show me one single panic - seller on this forum
who sold BTC for under 300 dollars at Gox given that he hasn´t bought them for a hundred before ;-) You can´t debunk that fact and absolutly need to stop denialing the rationalisations which are delivered by this fact : You are being played and not by Karpeles alone.... [/quote] Well, I am one of those of sold my BTC for less than $300, I think many people were panic selling, it was clear that things will not go well in the near future. I lost half my investment on Gox and managed to get BTC out through bitcoinbuilder at 0.3 rate. do you think I am happy?? I am sure there are plenty people like me who did this. so here it is. I think many people are getting fucked and giving the opportunity many people are fucking other people. [/quote] So you sold them and have put your money in the withdrawl queue ?? or bought again and got them then out via BB? |
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zyk
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February 27, 2014, 02:58:58 AM |
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Glue this poster everywhere you can Thats the right track  |
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jwest411
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February 27, 2014, 03:31:48 AM |
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@zyk, DISPROOF by counterexample on the other hand... that's a nail in the coffin of your theory.
Honestly, I would say that there is a decent chance they will open back up. Not saying you should trust those lying bastards ever again. But there is a chance.
also,
'The proceeds of this selling were sent off- shore . This is still being hidden as we speak by take-over
nonsense and draft papers and subpoenas and sleeping cats and buying back debts for pennies on the dollar and so and on and on..
Am sad that all of you rather want to be blindsighted by BS and lose your funds and sad for the complete loss of confidence in
bitcoin which will ensue should this heist will be pushed through without punishment for the perpetrators.'
wut? are you saying the subpoenas aren't real? Or that gox buying engaging in insider trading and crashing the market in order to buy back coins for cheap is somehow a cover-up? That's a pretty shitty cover up.
if they really never give our money back, of course I will be sad, of course I will be angry. But I won't be blindsided because I, unlike you, am considering more than one outcome. But opf all of the possible outcomes that end up in me being pissed and sad because I was defrauded, I don't think your theory is very likely.
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Slab Squathrust
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February 27, 2014, 03:36:26 AM |
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DISPROOF by counterexample on the other hand... that's a nail in the coffin of your theory.
Honestly, I would say that there is a decent chance they will open back up. Not saying you should trust those lying bastards ever again. But there is a chance.
Under current management, hell no. Under a more transparent competent set of executives, I would have no problem as long as they could prove their solvency. |
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