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Author Topic: Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware  (Read 423215 times)
Stringchains
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November 09, 2013, 11:06:08 AM
 #3841

This is how I see the assembly refunds.

For example, lets say I payed 5 BTC for assembly. When Bitcoin was worth $100 USD.
TOTAL: I payed $500 USD for assembly.

If Bitcoin dropped to $10 USD,
His words clearly would NOT be "Here's your 5 Bitcoins. Too bad :\ $50 your loss"
Because, that is theft even under his own words of returning it back "based on USD."

In other words, he would have to give back 50 Bitcoins. Cause I payed $500 for assembly. NOW HOLD ON A MINUTE...

HERES THE GRAND, COURT CASE EXAMPLE:

But let's say I'm a big money spender and Steamboat is a high-end big factory mass producer and I ordered a ton of asic machines from him and payed $10,000,000 USD (I.E. 100,000 Bitcoins) for the Assembly. Oh, and by the way, say 29 of my other friends also spent $10,000,000 USD EACH on Assembly (I.E. 100,000 Bitcoins EACH).

AND NOW WE WANT OUR REFUNDS:

He would have to fork out all my friends and I, our total $300,000,000 worth of USD at a dropped Bitcoin value.
Oh no?!? Bitcoin dropped to $10?
Well... We are getting it back based on the $300,000,000 USD assembly we payed.

He would have no problem "returning" me and my friends 828,729 BTC if a bitcoin is worth $362 (as it is now), as opposed to if a bitcoin is worth $10, in which he would have a huge problem "returning" $300,000,000 assembly.

Want to know why? IT WOULD BE 30,000,000 BTC THAT HE MUST RETURN.

Fact:  ... THERE ARE ONLY 21,000,000 BTC EVER TO EXIST.

This many bitcoins at this USD value does not even exist! HOW DO WE GET OUR MONEY BACK BASED ON USD WHEN THERE AREN'T EVEN THAT MANY BTC THAT EXIST?


If the coin takes a loss, we take our loss. If the coin takes a gain, we take our gain.
We payed a certain amount in bitcoin. We get that EXACT amount in bitcoin.
5 BTC PAYED = 5 BTC RETURNED

Also, our BTC on "USD-based" assembly IS NOT to be converted to USD on an assembly that was never executed.
In other words, if I give him 5 BTC for assembly that never occurred, then he has been sitting on 5 Bitcoins that were never used for anything at all this entire time.
Thus, another reason that the unique pretty stone we give him, is the unique pretty stone we get back.

And besides, I'm not even a money guy. I deal with bitcoins. I don't even need cash. I would just like my bitcoins back.

There are those of us who aren't even money guys, we don't even deal with cash; we don't need it. We look down upon it... We deal with bitcoins. - Stringchains
INVEST 0.035 BTC ----> 1-2 YEARS ----> OVER 50 BTC RETURN
http://www.bitbillions.com/?refid=16oqezxg8gENsgFQrpgCyF8e6Ff3yaFRQJ
cp1
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November 09, 2013, 03:04:51 PM
 #3842

I know you'd love to get a refund based on btc,  but that's not possible if bit pay converted everything to btc for steamboat.   he's not going to  sell his  house to pay you.

Guide to armory offline install on USB key:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241730.0
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November 09, 2013, 03:16:55 PM
 #3843

...
In other words, if I give him 5 BTC for assembly that never occurred, then he has been sitting on 5 Bitcoins that were never used for anything at all this entire time.
...

He probably sold the BTC and bought all the components (except Avalon chips) with it.

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November 09, 2013, 05:09:32 PM
 #3844

Currently hashing at eligius, seems like they aren't getting as many blocks, is ghash.io more consistent in payments? 
professorY
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November 09, 2013, 05:30:50 PM
 #3845

I know you'd love to get a refund based on btc,  but that's not possible if bit pay converted everything to btc for steamboat.   he's not going to  sell his  house to pay you.

If he had processed the refunds in a timely fashion like he should have, he wouldn't have to, now would he?

How is that our fault?

Why should I have to accept a fraction of what I gave for a service that was never provided? That assembly and hosting money should never have been converted to fiat in the first place as there was nothing to assemble or host at the time.

Still, like it or not, I know damn well we're not getting our BTC back. So the best possible outcome is to get these refunds processed as soon as possible, before BTC is $1,000 each and we end up with 0.01 or some shit.

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LiveJay
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November 09, 2013, 06:33:40 PM
 #3846

I just submitted a pull request at GitHub for a fix I made to the klondike driver in cgminer.  It was incorrectly reporting the target fan speed on the status line (always 0% due to a math error).  Here is the diff if any of you adventurous souls out there want to try it out:

https://github.com/LiveJay/cgminer/commit/0124217db80cd4506d4fe1c921a6fd49bba59efb

Now it looks like this (it's capped at 99% because there isn't room for a fourth character):

https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/0/AABLHwHkiYxSag3F8H6E3NUiyuUxGv8kqWewpDi4MHqkDA/12/44288815/png/1024x768/3/1384027200/0/2/Screenshot%202013-11-09%2010.25.55.png/eip0CZO0no5uOh5M9nwMA62GLBvLG4MNn1qJHuyykIE

My question is this:  The firmware aways seems to be returning 255 or 100% for the fan target speed, even when the fan is obviously running slower.  Is there any current activity around this in the firmware?  Is the firmware source available for review?  And where are the firmware devs hanging out.  I wouldn't mind listening in or helping out.

Thanks,

-Jay
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November 09, 2013, 06:35:50 PM
 #3847

It's getting really tiresome looking at my nearly empty BTC wallet, watching prices skyrocket, and thinking about SB sitting on my assembly funds just watching them grow.

STEAMBOAT: Please, how about a meaningful update on assembly refund details? It would really mean a lot if you would treat your buyers with some respect and let us know what's going on.

Easily see your cgminer status with my cgminerLCDStats app:  http://cardcomm.github.io/cgminerLCDStats/
Did my post help you or make you laugh? Let me know with Bitcoins at: 1CQfpMHQ5zVuZ5i9uxSHSSx4J8ZhehSjn3  Smiley
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November 09, 2013, 06:42:37 PM
 #3848

I modified driver-klondike.c in my cgminer source, changing KLN_KILLWORK_TEMP to 67.5.  So far they're doing fine like that.  I have them sitting in front of a boxfan.

How did you do this Huh You running Ubuntu or Windows.

I'm running teh Linux.  Yes, Ubuntu actually in this case.

The same change should work on Windows, *if* you are building cgminer from source.

If you're just downloading the already-compiled cgminer binary .exe and running it, you will not be able to make the change.  You need to change it in the source and recompile.

I wish the cgminer devs would make it a runtime option, or at least change the compile-time default to a higher value.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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November 09, 2013, 07:20:17 PM
 #3849

Xian, I happen to have 18 myself.  What is your solution for powering them?  I didn't plan ahead for my shipment all that well, so I currently have 12 attached to a standalone 1000W ATX PSU; the other 6 are leeching off of a different PC's spare PCI-E cables (in a different room altogether).  I'd like to consolidate them if I can.

 Using a Corsair TX 850 to power 10 of them, and using the PCIE cables off a RaidMax 1000W that is powering the host CPU to drive the other 8 K16's.
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November 09, 2013, 07:57:08 PM
 #3850

Xian, I happen to have 18 myself.  What is your solution for powering them?  I didn't plan ahead for my shipment all that well, so I currently have 12 attached to a standalone 1000W ATX PSU; the other 6 are leeching off of a different PC's spare PCI-E cables (in a different room altogether).  I'd like to consolidate them if I can.

 Using a Corsair TX 850 to power 10 of them, and using the PCIE cables off a RaidMax 1000W that is powering the host CPU to drive the other 8 K16's.

Just out of curiosity, what USB hubs are you guys using? My Ankers for some strange reason do not work anymore, on either windows or linux. Must be some sort of weird usb 3.0 bug in those hubs, or some weird cgminer issue.

My klondikes do not like USB 3.0 at all. I can only run mine off the built in USB ports on the computers (either the windows7 or the linux box). They just are not recognized off the Anker 3.0 hubs. I keep thinking its either a bug in CGminer 3.6ish and above, because they do not work with the block erupters anymore either, but used to work fine with CGminer 3.5.0...

I have an ancient Dlink hub that works fine (weird), but it only has 4 slots. Totally friggin strange !
Stringchains
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November 09, 2013, 08:16:25 PM
Last edit: November 09, 2013, 09:07:52 PM by Stringchains
 #3851

This is how I see the assembly refunds.

For example, lets say I payed 5 BTC for assembly. When Bitcoin was worth $100 USD.
TOTAL: I payed $500 USD for assembly.

If Bitcoin dropped to $10 USD,
His words clearly would NOT be "Here's your 5 Bitcoins. Too bad :\ $50 your loss"
Because, that is theft even under his own words of returning it back "based on USD."

In other words, he would have to give back 50 Bitcoins. Cause I payed $500 for assembly. NOW HOLD ON A MINUTE...

HERES THE GRAND, COURT CASE EXAMPLE:

But let's say I'm a big money spender and Steamboat is a high-end big factory mass producer and I ordered a ton of asic machines from him and payed $10,000,000 USD (I.E. 100,000 Bitcoins) for the Assembly. Oh, and by the way, say 29 of my other friends also spent $10,000,000 USD EACH on Assembly (I.E. 100,000 Bitcoins EACH).

AND NOW WE WANT OUR REFUNDS:

He would have to fork out all my friends and I, our total $300,000,000 worth of USD at a dropped Bitcoin value.
Oh no?!? Bitcoin dropped to $10?
Well... We are getting it back based on the $300,000,000 USD assembly we payed.

He would have no problem "returning" me and my friends 828,729 BTC if a bitcoin is worth $362 (as it is now), as opposed to if a bitcoin is worth $10, in which he would have a huge problem "returning" $300,000,000 assembly.

Want to know why? IT WOULD BE 30,000,000 BTC THAT HE MUST RETURN.

Fact:  ... THERE ARE ONLY 21,000,000 BTC EVER TO EXIST.

This many bitcoins at this USD value does not even exist! HOW DO WE GET OUR MONEY BACK BASED ON USD WHEN THERE AREN'T EVEN THAT MANY BTC THAT EXIST?


If the coin takes a loss, we take our loss. If the coin takes a gain, we take our gain.
We payed a certain amount in bitcoin. We get that EXACT amount in bitcoin.
5 BTC PAYED = 5 BTC RETURNED

Also, our BTC on "USD-based" assembly IS NOT to be converted to USD on an assembly that was never executed.
In other words, if I give him 5 BTC for assembly that never occurred, then he has been sitting on 5 Bitcoins that were never used for anything at all this entire time.
Thus, another reason that the unique pretty stone we give him, is the unique pretty stone we get back.

And besides, I'm not even a money guy. I deal with bitcoins. I don't even need cash. I would just like my bitcoins back.

I know you'd love to get a refund based on btc,  but that's not possible if bit pay converted everything to btc for steamboat.   he's not going to  sell his  house to pay you.

If he had processed the refunds in a timely fashion like he should have, he wouldn't have to, now would he?

How is that our fault?

Why should I have to accept a fraction of what I gave for a service that was never provided? That assembly and hosting money should never have been converted to fiat in the first place as there was nothing to assemble or host at the time.

Still, like it or not, I know damn well we're not getting our BTC back. So the best possible outcome is to get these refunds processed as soon as possible, before BTC is $1,000 each and we end up with 0.01 or some shit.


Time has NOTHING to do with this. The common sense, absolute point I am making here:

If it dropped to $10 each, and a customer wanted $500 assembly back, I know for damn sure, that if I was Steamboat, I could, and would, easily get away with:

Returning a customer only 5 BTC and telling him "Hey, I returned the money at which it is based USD '$100' per BTC". "What you payed for."

... Just as easily as getting away with,

Return a customer only .05 BTC and telling him, "Hey, I returned the money at which it is based '$10,000' per BTC." "What you payed for."

In BOTH cases you are put into a frame of mind that you are getting back what you payed when you are clearly NOT.
In this example, if he were to give back assembly refund at .05 BTC at a high BTC value, he MUST give back 50 BTC at a low BTC value, right?

But you say, "EXACTLY, which he WOULD give back 50 BTC at a low value of $10 each to makeup for your $500 Assembly cost, because Steamboat is a trustworthy guy!"
WRONG Wrong WRONG Wrong WRONG!

He CAN'T give back 50 BTC at a LOW VALUE worth of $10 each to satisfy $500 Assembly
Why??? If 200 thousand of us wants this same amount refund back, he would have to give back an impossible 10,000,000 BTC (~%80 of ALL the BTC that exists right now in circulation)

--------------------------------------------

In other words that a child could understand:

Your family generation shotgun that you trade to him for a laptop that he is assembling, IS NOT going to be 1/5 piece of your shotgun returned to you when the assembling fails, most especially if you get NOTHING for it.

--------------------------------------------


More importantly, it is like I said before, if you give 5 BTC for assembly that never occurred, then he has been sitting on 5 BTC that were USED FOR NOTHING at all this entire time.


As much as people would like to believe it is a currency, no one understands that Bitcoin is a trade commodity just as you would trade a whole orange for someone to go look for a couple bananas for you.
If he fails at finding the bananas, then there is no reason for him to come back returning only the orange peels to you saying, "Sorryy... I got hungry."  Undecided


There are those of us who aren't even money guys, we don't even deal with cash; we don't need it. We look down upon it... We deal with bitcoins. - Stringchains
INVEST 0.035 BTC ----> 1-2 YEARS ----> OVER 50 BTC RETURN
http://www.bitbillions.com/?refid=16oqezxg8gENsgFQrpgCyF8e6Ff3yaFRQJ
cp1
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November 09, 2013, 09:34:20 PM
 #3852

If time is of the essence because of the btc  to usd rate then arbitrage right now.   Say you expect to get $1000  refund,  just buy $1000  in  Bitcoins and then when you get the refund sell those to usd.

Guide to armory offline install on USB key:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241730.0
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November 09, 2013, 09:39:27 PM
 #3853

If time is of the essence because of the btc  to usd rate then arbitrage right now.   Say you expect to get $1000  refund,  just buy $1000  in  Bitcoins and then when you get the refund sell those to usd.

Little too late for that. Why should we bear the brunt of the price increase when we've been waiting for months for our refunds?

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November 09, 2013, 10:44:00 PM
 #3854

If time is of the essence because of the btc  to usd rate then arbitrage right now.   Say you expect to get $1000  refund,  just buy $1000  in  Bitcoins and then when you get the refund sell those to usd.

Little too late for that. Why should we bear the brunt of the price increase when we've been waiting for months for our refunds?

I saw this same scenario play out when bASIC collapsed.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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November 10, 2013, 01:43:34 AM
 #3855

If time is of the essence because of the btc  to usd rate then arbitrage right now.   Say you expect to get $1000  refund,  just buy $1000  in  Bitcoins and then when you get the refund sell those to usd.

Little too late for that. Why should we bear the brunt of the price increase when we've been waiting for months for our refunds?

I saw this same scenario play out when bASIC collapsed.

I got my money back from the bASIC thing, but I paid with VISA. Didn't all the bitcoin get returned eventually, I thought he had to take out a loan on his house to repay everyone?

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November 10, 2013, 02:06:01 AM
 #3856

Just out of curiosity, what USB hubs are you guys using? My Ankers for some strange reason do not work anymore, on either windows or linux. Must be some sort of weird usb 3.0 bug in those hubs, or some weird cgminer issue.

 Finally got use out of my Mondohub 28 port !

 Where possible, try using USB 2 ports vs USB 3 ports, I've found.
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November 10, 2013, 02:31:33 AM
 #3857

If time is of the essence because of the btc  to usd rate then arbitrage right now.   Say you expect to get $1000  refund,  just buy $1000  in  Bitcoins and then when you get the refund sell those to usd.

Little too late for that. Why should we bear the brunt of the price increase when we've been waiting for months for our refunds?

I saw this same scenario play out when bASIC collapsed.

I got my money back from the bASIC thing, but I paid with VISA. Didn't all the bitcoin get returned eventually, I thought he had to take out a loan on his house to repay everyone?


He returned the bitcoins for the asic chips only. He did not return the bitcoins for $60 per board assembly cost, which he mentioned would be returned at a reduced value of 25% of the total we payed for the cost of assembly (when we traded him the orange to look for a couple bananas, due to matters of having to eat the orange out of hunger, he only has the peels left to return to us).

There are those of us who aren't even money guys, we don't even deal with cash; we don't need it. We look down upon it... We deal with bitcoins. - Stringchains
INVEST 0.035 BTC ----> 1-2 YEARS ----> OVER 50 BTC RETURN
http://www.bitbillions.com/?refid=16oqezxg8gENsgFQrpgCyF8e6Ff3yaFRQJ
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November 10, 2013, 02:54:43 AM
 #3858

If time is of the essence because of the btc  to usd rate then arbitrage right now.   Say you expect to get $1000  refund,  just buy $1000  in  Bitcoins and then when you get the refund sell those to usd.

Little too late for that. Why should we bear the brunt of the price increase when we've been waiting for months for our refunds?

I saw this same scenario play out when bASIC collapsed.

I got my money back from the bASIC thing, but I paid with VISA. Didn't all the bitcoin get returned eventually, I thought he had to take out a loan on his house to repay everyone?


He returned the bitcoins for the asic chips only. He did not return the bitcoins for $60 per board assembly cost, which he mentioned would be returned at a reduced value of 25% of the total we payed for the cost of assembly (when we traded him the orange to look for a couple bananas, due to matters of having to eat the orange out of hunger, he only has the peels left to return to us).

Uh, what now? bASIC has nothing to do with this group buy. It was just mentioned as something similar Tongue

-
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November 10, 2013, 03:31:26 AM
 #3859

Just out of curiosity, what USB hubs are you guys using? My Ankers for some strange reason do not work anymore, on either windows or linux. Must be some sort of weird usb 3.0 bug in those hubs, or some weird cgminer issue.

 Finally got use out of my Mondohub 28 port !

 Where possible, try using USB 2 ports vs USB 3 ports, I've found.

Yep, my Ankers are totally worthless. I just got a Belkin 2.0 7-port powered hub (2.0 amps max) from Best Buy, and it did the trick.

On another note, one of my Klondikes must have had it's fan connector disconnected by me brushing up against it while I was connecting another one, and it sat there, heated up, and SPOOGED a huge wad of creamy thermal compound all over the table and my hand...

Who would have thought that with the price of BTC going up, some K16 would have spilled a load... Grin

At least, I hope it was just thermal compound... Grin

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November 10, 2013, 03:37:20 AM
 #3860

Just out of curiosity, what USB hubs are you guys using? My Ankers for some strange reason do not work anymore, on either windows or linux. Must be some sort of weird usb 3.0 bug in those hubs, or some weird cgminer issue.

 Finally got use out of my Mondohub 28 port !

 Where possible, try using USB 2 ports vs USB 3 ports, I've found.

Yep, my Ankers are totally worthless. I just got a Belkin 2.0 7-port powered hub (2.0 amps max) from Best Buy, and it did the trick.

On another note, one of my Klondikes must have had it's fan connector disconnected by me brushing up against it while I was connecting another one, and it sat there, heated up, and SPOOGED a huge wad of creamy thermal compound all over the table and my hand...

I've been real happy with my Rosewill RHB-500s (10 ports).  I have over 20 of them.  It's too bad they don't seem to be available anymore.

Did that hot thermal compound burn your hand?

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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