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Author Topic: Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware  (Read 423284 times)
rocks
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November 16, 2013, 12:48:43 AM
 #3961

Perhaps we'll have been lucky and SB has kept as much funds in BTC as possible. But unfortunately, he is only obligated to pay us in dollars...? He did say that we would not be penalized for the delays with refund processing, but I have no clue what he meant by that. Irregardless, he's totally incommunicado, so it really doesn't matter. I almost hope someone has filed some sort of complaint with the feds, the way he is acting feels so scammy from this end.
Guys, let's lets remember that it was Yifu who originally scammed both this group buy and many many others. If you are going to file any sort of complaint I think that is the place to start.
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November 16, 2013, 04:43:05 AM
 #3962

Steamboat, come on refund us our shipping and assembly costs.

BTC tips: 14PkHaJH5GexLG9P7MYxHRNvZeCq2t8DWX
nightengale
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November 16, 2013, 01:30:46 PM
 #3963

Steamboat, please process all refunds due.
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November 16, 2013, 02:12:10 PM
 #3964

Closure would be nice....



EDIT: ...process the refunds in the same payment method that was sent, thank you!   Smiley

hoss
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November 17, 2013, 03:16:06 AM
 #3965

You all do realize that bitpay, instabit or whatever third party system that we used to pay for assembly DID NOT transfer BTC to steamboat.  Instead the 3rd party converted BTC to USD and sent USD to steamboats bank/merchant account. Unless you worked out a personal BTC transfer to steamboat ( eg you did NOT use LSD.com to pay) for assembly/shipping/hosting you should expect USD as the refund medium - NOT BTC because steamboat did not receive BTC, he received USD from the 3rd party. 
 
Steamboat - at this time due to your lack of communication and ability to bring closure, I recommend to the remaining group buy victims that they request their miners be ship without ASICs. I expect the heatsink,fans, cables and other parts to be included. The PCB should be completely assembled minus the ASICs and otherwise functional.  I believe this will bring closure both emotionally and legally to all parties. I personally would settle for just a shipping cost refund but you are clearly not communicating with us.

I will give the community a few days to respond before I send a formal email asking for my 33 non-ASIC miners.     
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November 17, 2013, 05:11:02 AM
 #3966

I recommend to the remaining group buy victims that they request their miners be ship without ASICs.
Has anyone received any K16s without ASICs? I know several people have suggested that. I could use one or two for Gen2 ASIC development.

On a related note. Anyone willing to part with a fully functional K16? Once again, for Gen2 ASIC development. I would be willing to be lightly gouged on price. If so, please PM me ASAP.

My goal is to send SB new PCBs and ASICs (and three other part replacements) and have those assembled.

I understand the POV of the Avalon haters here, (I am one as well) but just trying to be pragmatic.

[And yes, also understanding that any assembly refunds would be in USD, not BTC.]
cardcomm
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November 17, 2013, 05:49:16 AM
 #3967

You all do realize that bitpay, instabit or whatever third party system that we used to pay for assembly DID NOT transfer BTC to steamboat.  Instead the 3rd party converted BTC to USD and sent USD to steamboats bank/merchant account. Unless you worked out a personal BTC transfer to steamboat ( eg you did NOT use LSD.com to pay) for assembly/shipping/hosting you should expect USD as the refund medium - NOT BTC because steamboat did not receive BTC, he received USD from the 3rd party. 
 
Steamboat - at this time due to your lack of communication and ability to bring closure, I recommend to the remaining group buy victims that they request their miners be ship without ASICs. I expect the heatsink,fans, cables and other parts to be included. The PCB should be completely assembled minus the ASICs and otherwise functional.  I believe this will bring closure both emotionally and legally to all parties. I personally would settle for just a shipping cost refund but you are clearly not communicating with us.

I will give the community a few days to respond before I send a formal email asking for my 33 non-ASIC miners.     

How do you KNOW that, please? You don't even seem to be sure of what provider he used to take payments. How could you, or any of us, know how he chose to get the funds?

Easily see your cgminer status with my cgminerLCDStats app:  http://cardcomm.github.io/cgminerLCDStats/
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cardcomm
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November 17, 2013, 05:53:13 AM
 #3968

You all do realize that bitpay, instabit or whatever third party system that we used to pay for assembly DID NOT transfer BTC to steamboat.  Instead the 3rd party converted BTC to USD and sent USD to steamboats bank/merchant account. Unless you worked out a personal BTC transfer to steamboat ( eg you did NOT use LSD.com to pay) for assembly/shipping/hosting you should expect USD as the refund medium - NOT BTC because steamboat did not receive BTC, he received USD from the 3rd party. 
 
Steamboat - at this time due to your lack of communication and ability to bring closure, I recommend to the remaining group buy victims that they request their miners be ship without ASICs. I expect the heatsink,fans, cables and other parts to be included. The PCB should be completely assembled minus the ASICs and otherwise functional.  I believe this will bring closure both emotionally and legally to all parties. I personally would settle for just a shipping cost refund but you are clearly not communicating with us.

I will give the community a few days to respond before I send a formal email asking for my 33 non-ASIC miners.     

I asked for just my shipping charges in a signed email several days ago and was ignored. I doubt he's going to ship miners less the ASICs. In fact, I wouldn't even want them at the expense of the shipping charges.

Easily see your cgminer status with my cgminerLCDStats app:  http://cardcomm.github.io/cgminerLCDStats/
Did my post help you or make you laugh? Let me know with Bitcoins at: 1CQfpMHQ5zVuZ5i9uxSHSSx4J8ZhehSjn3  Smiley
Stringchains
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November 17, 2013, 06:51:32 AM
Last edit: November 17, 2013, 05:41:16 PM by Stringchains
 #3969



The only thing we ACTUALLY have on the table right now is a group buy organizer / assembly business owner that is completely ignoring us.  Sad



And why wouldn't he? The longer he waits, the less he has to pay us in BTC apparently.

He DOES NOT and WILL NOT pay us LESS or MORE in BTC based on whether BTC goes up or down in $USD value. The exact amount we gave him is the exact amount we get back. You pay him 10 BTC, he will give back 10 BTC. The $USD price of BTC going up or down does not play a factor AT ALL in how much we get back. It is theft to impose this method of refunds on somebody where one decides how much you get back based on how high or low the $USD value of something is going up or down.

Why??

... Lets assume he would give us back BTC based on rising or decreasing $USD value of the bitcoin (WHICH HE MUST NOT, SHOULD NOT, CAN NOT, AND WILL NOT DO, BECAUSE IT IS UNIVERSALLY ILLEGAL TO DO SO IN ANY PLANET, COUNTRY, PROVINCE, OR JUNGLE):
......This is why

If BTC dropped to a low value of $10 ea., and a customer wanted $500 assembly back, I know for damn sure, that if I was Steamboat, I could, and would (with nobody noticing apparently) easily get away with THEFT in a combination of ways, here are a couple introductory examples, with the enlightening examples to be explained afterwards:

[$500 Assembly Refund] : Returning a customer ONLY 1.2 BTC and telling him "Hey, I returned the money at which it is based USD '$400' per BTC". "What you payed for." (i.e. when most of us bought BTC it was valued ~$100 USD ea. and we gave him 5 BTC for this $amount of Assembly)

... This is theft, just as plainly as this example,

[$500 Assembly Refund] : Return a customer ONLY .05 BTC and telling him, "Hey, I returned the money at which it is based '$10,000' per BTC." "What you payed for." (i.e. when BTC value jumps to any ridiculous number; high in this case (rock bottom low is another case, such as $10 ea.--which I might as well list right here with these two examples anyways, but.. I'd like to "overkill" the process of revealing the pink elephant in the room, cause that's just the kind of guy I am; so please continue!)).


Here is why it is THEFT:
You are put into a frame of mind that you are getting back what you payed based on, up' or down', when you are clearly NOT.
For example, if he were to give back assembly refund of .05 BTC at a high BTC value ($10,000 ea.), he MUST give back 50 BTC at a low BTC value ($10 ea.), right?
And you say, "EXACTLY, he WOULD give back 50 BTC when the value has plunged to $10 ea., in order to makeup for this $500 Assembly cost, because Steamboat is a trustworthy guy and that's the correct thing to do!"
THAT IS WRONG,

this is WHY:


He CAN'T give back 50 BTC at a LOW VALUE worth of $10 each to satisfy $500 Assembly
Why???
If 200 thousand of us wants this same amount refund back, he would have to give back an impossible 10,000,000 BTC (~%80 of ALL the BTC that exists right now in circulation) ... Oh, and by the way, only 22 million bitcoins will ever exist to be in circulation once mining is all done, so even then, it would take HALF of all the bitcoins that exist to do refunds.

NO SINGLE, ONE PERSON, CAN OWN ALL THE BTC ON THE PLANET. (No single person could even possibly own a third, or a quarter, or even an eighth of all the BTC for that matter.)

Therefore, he LITERALLY does not have the ABILITY to base your refund on how high or low in $USD the bitcoin is changing.
The only way he LITERALLY CAN return the refunds to us is in the same exact amount and form we gave it to him.
We payed him 7 Bitcoins for assembly in the beginning, we get back 7 Bitcoins for assembly at the end when it is refunded.

--------------------------------------------

In other words that even a child could understand:

Your family generation shotgun that you trade to him for a laptop that he is assembling, IS NOT going to be 1/5 piece of your shotgun returned back to you when the price of this unique shotgun of yours goes up in value on the market, ESPECIALLY when the assembling fails, and EVEN MORE ESPECIALLY if you get NOTHING for it.

You will get your entire shotgun back, returned safely in the exact condition, regardless of whether the shotgun comes to being valued a trillion dollars one day, or a couple of pennies another day.

--------------------------------------------


In addition, more importantly, it is like I said before, if you give 5 BTC for assembly that never occurred, then he has been sitting on 5 BTC that were USED FOR NOTHING at all this entire time.


Just as you would trade a whole orange for someone to go look for a couple bananas for you.
If he fails at finding the bananas, then he MUST come back and give the entire orange back to you EVEN IF THE ORANGE WENT UP TO A MILLION DOLLARS. And there is ESPECIALLY no reason for him to come back returning only the orange peels to you saying, "Sorryy... I got hungry."  Undecided (which unfortunately he is going to do, because he used bitcoin funds up to an amount for everyone to receive only 25% of their bitcoins back)--thats right, if you gave him 20 BTC, he will give back only 4 BTC to you because he had to spend it for the sake of the community.


--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------


[...]The longer he waits, the less he has to pay us in BTC apparently.
He transformed those bitcoins into cash.  He's not going to spend 4x as much to revert cash back to BTC to give you your money back.  

In response to the quotes, according to Steamboats update, 2 or 3 of his main updates ago, he did not convert Bitcoins into cash up to 25% of which are available to be returned to us. Therefore, if you payed 9.5 Bitcoins for assembly, then you will get 25% of those 9.5 Bitcoins back. THERE IS NO, "but Bitcoin is rising in value, so were gonna get less, awwwwww Sad"... If you read my above court case example, it is clearly THEFT to give back less or more bitcoins based on whether the $price of the bitcoin is going up or down. What we give him in the form of bitcoins, is what we get back in the same exact amount we gave to him. 6 bitcoins for him to sit on = 6 bitcoins for him to give back to us. There is no 6 bitcoins for him to sit on = (uh oh, price went up) 1.5 Bitcoins for him to give back to us. Read the court example. It is impossible to PHYSICALLY do this because Bitcoin has a very small circulation limit of 22million that will ever exist (might as well call Bitcoin a RARE commodity), AND it is impossible to do this LEGALLY because it is consequently theft per the above example.

... In other words. He must return our Bitcoins to us, in the exact amount of which we gave to him. He must return our Bitcoins to us, such as if we payed $100 each for 9 bitcoins (total of $900 worth) at the time of July 12th when we bought assembly of ~14 miners at $65 each so to speak, then he must return 9 bitcoins REGARDLESS of whether they are now worth as high as $1,000 or as low as $20 each. We gave him an orange, to go search for a couple bananas. He must give back the damn orange regardless of the value of the orange going up or down. We give him 9 bitcoins, he gives us 9 bitcoins back, whether a bitcoin is worth a million dollars each, or one cent each DOES NOT MATTER, the whole point is we give him an exact amount, and we get back an exact amount.

There are those of us who aren't even money guys, we don't even deal with cash; we don't need it. We look down upon it... We deal with bitcoins. - Stringchains
INVEST 0.035 BTC ----> 1-2 YEARS ----> OVER 50 BTC RETURN
http://www.bitbillions.com/?refid=16oqezxg8gENsgFQrpgCyF8e6Ff3yaFRQJ
nightengale
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November 17, 2013, 02:33:48 PM
 #3970

Steamboat, please process all refunds due.
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November 17, 2013, 05:02:12 PM
 #3971

Please help. I have 18 chips ASIC available and i need the PCB and parts to build my K16 system. Are there any KIT with PCB and all parts (except ASIC's) available to buy it through paypal? It is almost impossible to convert in BTC due to dramatically increase price. Message me by PM for price and time delivery as well.
TIA

My cool bitcoin ASIC sites http://mining-bitcoins.co and http://mineasics.com and http://litecoinx.gr
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November 17, 2013, 07:38:30 PM
 #3972

As one of the many people here who have paid for assembly (and test) but who got a refund on ASICs I can’t help but think about revising the Klondike design to use the new ASICs.

...

What do people think?

A question: I’ve been away from this thread for a while, what is the current state of the Klondike design? I know I2C chaining and USB Bootloading are not yet supported, but is it working with all 16 ASICs? Where is the archive for the most recent, up-to-date version of the design?

I would consider it if Avalon gave Steamboat (at least) a 25% discount. Otherwise they're overpriced.
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November 17, 2013, 10:48:55 PM
 #3973

I received all my klondikes, but have not unboxed all of the yet as it takes time to set them up then I also found I just do not have enough electrical circuits so I have been shutting other stuff down unboxing more klondikes, shut more stuff down, unbox more etc.

Mostly they work well out of the box, but in the first box of eight one of them produces nothing but hardware errors. I guess I am going to have to test all the others even though I can only really run just over half of them until I get an electrician in here to route some more power.

They were really well packed so it doesn't really seem very likely it got damaged in transit, but I ordered tested units so it also doesn't seem likely it was producing nothing but hardware errors before it was shipped.

I hope it won't take too long to get the electrician to visit. Smiley

-MarkM-

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November 17, 2013, 11:27:02 PM
 #3974

....

TL;DR

If the only payment method is Bitcoins, expect Bitcoins in return.  If you paid in cash, expect to get cash in return.
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November 18, 2013, 12:50:49 AM
 #3975

If you spent bitcoin at $120 expect $120 worth back, key word here is spent. I'd love to sell a oz of gold for $1200 and go back next week when it's $1500 and ask for it back. Come on people you spent it you didn't hold it.
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November 18, 2013, 01:41:55 AM
 #3976

If you spent bitcoin at $120 expect $120 worth back, key word here is spent. I'd love to sell a oz of gold for $1200 and go back next week when it's $1500 and ask for it back. Come on people you spent it you didn't hold it.

I'd love for you to come buy my broken laptop that I can't find for 1 bitcoin, and when you come back to get your bitcoin because I can't deliver my broken laptop, I only give you half back because it has doubled in value versus russian rubles...

Edit: PS, I actually have a broken laptop laying around here somewhere if you want to buy it.

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November 18, 2013, 02:58:03 AM
 #3977

If you spent bitcoin at $120 expect $120 worth back, key word here is spent. I'd love to sell a oz of gold for $1200 and go back next week when it's $1500 and ask for it back. Come on people you spent it you didn't hold it.

If I traded an ounce of gold to someone in exchange for a product or service that they subsequently can't provide, I'd expect to back an ounce of gold. Regardless of current value.

With that said, I've already stated I'm willing to forgo any assembly refund as long as I get my shipping refunded in the original amount of BTC. That seems really fair to me. But it's apparently not even worth a response from our esteemed group buy leader.

Easily see your cgminer status with my cgminerLCDStats app:  http://cardcomm.github.io/cgminerLCDStats/
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November 18, 2013, 04:47:14 AM
 #3978

If you spent bitcoin at $120 expect $120 worth back, key word here is spent. I'd love to sell a oz of gold for $1200 and go back next week when it's $1500 and ask for it back. Come on people you spent it you didn't hold it.

I'd love for you to come buy my broken laptop that I can't find for 1 bitcoin, and when you come back to get your bitcoin because I can't deliver my broken laptop, I only give you half back because it has doubled in value versus russian rubles...

Edit: PS, I actually have a broken laptop laying around here somewhere if you want to buy it.

Did you build the laptop yourself Huh  Did you get screwed by a supplier & firmware designer before you could finish Huh  Did you invest in the parts & assembly house to make 3000 laptops Huh

Didn't think so............................. Roll Eyes

I think everything had $$$ value,so you get back the same $$$ value.............................

He'll give an update when he's got one ready,I'm sure of it  Wink

He's been busy as hell shipping,getting the hosting going & organizing the bootloader dev & many,many other things to salvage this GB.

As I said before go & check Terrahash's GB to see how bad things are  Roll Eyes

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
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November 18, 2013, 12:48:35 PM
 #3979

If you spent bitcoin at $120 expect $120 worth back, key word here is spent. I'd love to sell a oz of gold for $1200 and go back next week when it's $1500 and ask for it back. Come on people you spent it you didn't hold it.

I'd love for you to come buy my broken laptop that I can't find for 1 bitcoin, and when you come back to get your bitcoin because I can't deliver my broken laptop, I only give you half back because it has doubled in value versus russian rubles...

Edit: PS, I actually have a broken laptop laying around here somewhere if you want to buy it.

Did you build the laptop yourself Huh  Did you get screwed by a supplier & firmware designer before you could finish Huh  Did you invest in the parts & assembly house to make 3000 laptops Huh

Didn't think so............................. Roll Eyes

I think everything had $$$ value,so you get back the same $$$ value.............................

He'll give an update when he's got one ready,I'm sure of it  Wink

He's been busy as hell shipping,getting the hosting going & organizing the bootloader dev & many,many other things to salvage this GB.

As I said before go & check Terrahash's GB to see how bad things are  Roll Eyes

Yes of course, this is why I'm into bitcoin, to pay off the debt I incurred when I tried starting a company back in the dot-com bubble disaster.
And nothing around my house has a value denominated in $$$ because that is not legal tender in my country, so that would be just as fucked up as russian roubles vs btc to me Tongue

Don't need to check Terrahash, it's the worst.

But, those who are the luckiest in this thread got their chips refunded and didn't have any other orders. (they received back over 90%)
After that the least unlucky are those who got their chips refunded but paid for assembly. (they received back over 50%, with another few % to follow when SB gets it done)
Most out of luck are those who didn't get chip refund, had paid for assembly and had to pay import tax, and take delivery. They will see almost no return on their investment (less than 20% total)

The interesting thing is, it seems it's the second group who whines the most, maybe they were the majority of the orders..



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November 18, 2013, 02:13:10 PM
 #3980

SB made it VERY clear that everything was paid for in $USD, BTC was simply the transfer medium. It's on your invoice, it's on your LiquidSynergy account, it's in the opening post, it's everywhere. Refunds will be in $USD for the same amount and will be transferred back via. BTC. The BTC price spike is making people illogically hopeful. Is it true that SB's delay in refunds has "cost you money"? Maybe, if anything you can be upset about the delay, (or his non-communication, or his poor choices), but you're disillusioned if you think you're getting back the amount of BTC you paid.

Also, I'm looking to buy a few extra boards. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=336754.0

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