(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed)

[fible1]

Fible, if you're looking at trading on CEX you'll need to implement a different trading strategy for the GHash/BTC market.. it swings fast and needs a bot to make High frequency low profit trades to make anything.  Of course, this trade strategy would be awesome in the btc market as well so go hard

We're working on something, that should take care of all these things. I've hinted at this before, but now we are really ramping up development and all these strategy issues will be taken care of.

We aim to blow everyones mind in the next few months .

Pablo.

Edit: "Red Monkey"

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[seanrarey]

I am having an issue where the Override Global Settings do not seem to completely do that.

If I set my main trade engine to a threshold of .35 with a 6hr interval, and override BTCe with .08 and a 30 minute interval, it is not working correctly.  The interval overrides, but not the threshold... BTCe is trading at .35 instead of the .08 I have the override set to.  Is anyone else seeing this or found a fix?

[fible1]

I am having an issue where the Override Global Settings do not seem to completely do that.

If I set my main trade engine to a threshold of .35 with a 6hr interval, and override BTCe with .08 and a 30 minute interval, it is not working correctly.  The interval overrides, but not the threshold... BTCe is trading at .35 instead of the .08 I have the override set to.  Is anyone else seeing this or found a fix?

Hey Sean,
     I need your logs to track this down. Are you on the Beta or on the 2.5.1 official release?

Please just email me the information and we will track this down and fix it if the issue is there.

Pablo.

[fible1]

******************
LTC PUBLIC BETA
******************

Friends,
   We are opening the LTC Beta to any current customer who wants to give it a go. You can download it here:

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/butter-bot-beta/ehdnodagpabbehmekcopmakcmfadmgbk/

Notes:
 
1. You need to use it instead of the current official release, you can not use both or you will encounter trading issues.
2. The Beta has been tested by the closed group and we feel we have worked out most of the kinks, still, it is a Beta release and you must be aware that there may be bugs which could affect trading and cause losses, use at your own risk.

Any questions, comments or bug reports are welcome, please email Pablo@Butter-Bot.com

I am here as always if anyone needs anything .

Pablo.

[bill_d]

Newbie question on thresholds - saw this way back:

4. You can set two different thresholds for buy and sell commands. You will be notified when the EMA value passes threshold 1 but the bot will only trade after the EMA value has passed threshold 2. Thats 2 threshold for buy and 2 thresholds for sell that you can set.

question - if threshold 1 just triggers notification, how come it seems to change profitability in testing?

Thanks for any help

[CC23]

question - if threshold 1 just triggers notification, how come it seems to change profitability in testing?

Because it also enables threshold 2 to be triggered. Once threshold 1 is passed at a tick time, a trade will happen if threshold 2 is triggered on the next tick (or a later one, provided that threshold 1 is consistently exceeded). So basically you can set the bot to require a certain steepness(? no, that's not the right word) of the EMA diff change, or to just trade immediately when the lines cross (by setting T1 to a negative number and T2 to zero) or whatever you like.

So to clarify: if the EMA diff somehow jumps from a negative value to a large positive one so both thresholds are met at once, nothing will happen, because at first only T1 will kick in (unless it already has, see above).

Did that help?

[bill_d]

thanks CC23, perfect

[fible1]

question - if threshold 1 just triggers notification, how come it seems to change profitability in testing?

Because it also enables threshold 2 to be triggered. Once threshold 1 is passed at a tick time, a trade will happen if threshold 2 is triggered on the next tick (or a later one, provided that threshold 1 is consistently exceeded). So basically you can set the bot to require a certain steepness(? no, that's not the right word) of the EMA diff change, or to just trade immediately when the lines cross (by setting T1 to a negative number and T2 to zero) or whatever you like.

So to clarify: if the EMA diff somehow jumps from a negative value to a large positive one so both thresholds are met at once, nothing will happen, because at first only T1 will kick in (unless it already has, see above).

Did that help?

You beat me to it .

[madpoet]

The Beta doesn't seem to re-read all the key settings.  Pity, I have to get them all figured out again

[fible1]

The Beta doesn't seem to re-read all the key settings.  Pity, I have to get them all figured out again

Hey ,
   Maybe I should have made this point clearer, the beta is really a separate app, so it has to be set individually.

I apologize if this caused any confusion.

Pablo.

[miless2111s]

I am in need of a little help...

I started using the Bot on the 24th Feb and struggled with working out what settings to use (not how they work - that's fairly clear thanks to this thread) and finally settled on 18/38 with thresholds set to 0/0.2 which back testing suggested profits would be positive (1.05% over a week, 20% over a month and 64% over 2 months - I don't see the point of anything longer given the basically "up" nature from before that).

Now I know that I need to wait and that the bot will loose 70% of the time but at the moment it is loosing 100% of the time and doesn't seem to capitalise even in large swing situations like last week.  I started with $91 (it was originally $100 but moving it into BTC lost me money at the time) and now I have $80.  BB buys/sells at the cross overs as designed but there is always a jump in the "wrong" direct at that time so it seems to buy at more than it then sells for

I assume others are actually making money (!) so what am I doing wrong? I have considered -50/0 so that it buys on the turn to minimise the impact of buying into a market which I guess is being moved by EMA trading but back testing always shows this to be a bad idea.

So as the sub title says - I need a little help because this isn't working at the moment (thank God I listened to the advice to put some "play" money in first!)

Thanks all

Milles

[Bitcopia]

I am in need of a little help...

I started using the Bot on the 24th Feb and struggled with working out what settings to use (not how they work - that's fairly clear thanks to this thread) and finally settled on 18/38 with thresholds set to 0/0.2 which back testing suggested profits would be positive (1.05% over a week, 20% over a month and 64% over 2 months - I don't see the point of anything longer given the basically "up" nature from before that).

Now I know that I need to wait and that the bot will loose 70% of the time but at the moment it is loosing 100% of the time and doesn't seem to capitalise even in large swing situations like last week.  I started with $91 (it was originally $100 but moving it into BTC lost me money at the time) and now I have $80.  BB buys/sells at the cross overs as designed but there is always a jump in the "wrong" direct at that time so it seems to buy at more than it then sells for

I assume others are actually making money (!) so what am I doing wrong? I have considered -50/0 so that it buys on the turn to minimise the impact of buying into a market which I guess is being moved by EMA trading but back testing always shows this to be a bad idea.

So as the sub title says - I need a little help because this isn't working at the moment (thank God I listened to the advice to put some "play" money in first!)

Thanks all

Milles

Milles,

This is a poor market for EMA trading at the moment. I've turned off my bot since mid-January because I felt a sustained period of relatively stable price or slow decline coming for the next couple months. Stable price is bad for EMA crossover strategies or really any trading strategy.

Also, be aware that you may be losing 100% of your first trades right now, but you might win the next 3. You might lose the first 20 and win the next 6. Or you might just always lose (but this is about as unlikely as always winning). It's just unfortunate to experience the drawdown at the beginning, because you start to question the strategy and sometimes break from the plan and act on emotions. If you stick to the plan, you will likely enter the market on the next major swing and make up all of your drawdown. However, it can be advantageous to analyze the current market sentiment and adjust your plan accordingly. Just always have a plan, and always honor your plan, or you will lose.

I've saved about 15% of my account balance by turning the bot off so far. I have set resistance points / crossovers that when satisfied, I will re-enter the market and turn the bot back on. Butterbot is a great tool, and in some of these extreme BTC market conditions, you can even just set it and forget it and still see large gains. But if you want to maximize your gains, it takes a decent knowledge of trading, planning, strategy adjustment, and emotional disregard.

[Bitcopia]

Fible, if you're looking at trading on CEX you'll need to implement a different trading strategy for the GHash/BTC market.. it swings fast and needs a bot to make High frequency low profit trades to make anything.  Of course, this trade strategy would be awesome in the btc market as well so go hard

We're working on something, that should take care of all these things. I've hinted at this before, but now we are really ramping up development and all these strategy issues will be taken care of.

We aim to blow everyones mind in the next few months .

Pablo.

Edit: "Red Monkey"

Really looking forward to the new features! Hopefully they will be released in time for the next massive swing!

[miless2111s]

I am in need of a little help...

I started using the Bot on the 24th Feb and struggled with working out what settings to use (not how they work - that's fairly clear thanks to this thread) and finally settled on 18/38 with thresholds set to 0/0.2 which back testing suggested profits would be positive (1.05% over a week, 20% over a month and 64% over 2 months - I don't see the point of anything longer given the basically "up" nature from before that).

Now I know that I need to wait and that the bot will loose 70% of the time but at the moment it is loosing 100% of the time and doesn't seem to capitalise even in large swing situations like last week.  I started with $91 (it was originally $100 but moving it into BTC lost me money at the time) and now I have $80.  BB buys/sells at the cross overs as designed but there is always a jump in the "wrong" direct at that time so it seems to buy at more than it then sells for

I assume others are actually making money (!) so what am I doing wrong? I have considered -50/0 so that it buys on the turn to minimise the impact of buying into a market which I guess is being moved by EMA trading but back testing always shows this to be a bad idea.

So as the sub title says - I need a little help because this isn't working at the moment (thank God I listened to the advice to put some "play" money in first!)

Thanks all

Milles

Milles,

This is a poor market for EMA trading at the moment. I've turned off my bot since mid-January because I felt a sustained period of relatively stable price or slow decline coming for the next couple months. Stable price is bad for EMA crossover strategies or really any trading strategy.

Also, be aware that you may be losing 100% of your first trades right now, but you might win the next 3. You might lose the first 20 and win the next 6. Or you might just always lose (but this is about as unlikely as always winning). It's just unfortunate to experience the drawdown at the beginning, because you start to question the strategy and sometimes break from the plan and act on emotions. If you stick to the plan, you will likely enter the market on the next major swing and make up all of your drawdown. However, it can be advantageous to analyze the current market sentiment and adjust your plan accordingly. Just always have a plan, and always honor your plan, or you will lose.

I've saved about 15% of my account balance by turning the bot off so far. I have set resistance points / crossovers that when satisfied, I will re-enter the market and turn the bot back on. Butterbot is a great tool, and in some of these extreme BTC market conditions, you can even just set it and forget it and still see large gains. But if you want to maximize your gains, it takes a decent knowledge of trading, planning, strategy adjustment, and emotional disregard.

I think that the "always have a plan" bit is the aspect that most bites - how to balance the need to leave BB to get on with it and when to fiddle around to adjust to the conditions.  At the moment my choosing of variables is a fairly random; plug in 18/39, 18/50, 12/20 etc pairs and see what back testing says.  This really doesn't feel planned, more random motion.  Coupled with the fact that at the start I finally found some settings which were predicted to work - then I find that they dont seem to work.  Do I just swap to something else (on the assumption I can find a set which worked for last week) or stick with what I've got and wait for the 30/70% split to swing?  At some point the need to constantly adjust the settings stops being a plan becomes a pain

Coupled with a lack of any science/rigour about how to find and select the variables at the moment and this all feels very "un planned" and random which is both against your sentiment and my hopes for having a bot.

Where do I go to in order to improve my knowledge and technique here?

Miles

[mooncake]

I think that the "always have a plan" bit is the aspect that most bites - how to balance the need to leave BB to get on with it and when to fiddle around to adjust to the conditions.  At the moment my choosing of variables is a fairly random; plug in 18/39, 18/50, 12/20 etc pairs and see what back testing says.  This really doesn't feel planned, more random motion.  Coupled with the fact that at the start I finally found some settings which were predicted to work - then I find that they dont seem to work.  Do I just swap to something else (on the assumption I can find a set which worked for last week) or stick with what I've got and wait for the 30/70% split to swing?  At some point the need to constantly adjust the settings stops being a plan becomes a pain

Coupled with a lack of any science/rigour about how to find and select the variables at the moment and this all feels very "un planned" and random which is both against your sentiment and my hopes for having a bot.

Where do I go to in order to improve my knowledge and technique here?

Miles

The whole Butter Bot started with Goomboo's journal thread.
What I learnt:
- When lower EMA crosses higher higher EMA, buy. Sell for opposite scenario.
- There is no hard and fast rule on EMA value setting. Just choose one that you like. Can be random as well.
- Manage the number of trades to reduce commissions for exchanges and slippage. Recommended trades per month: 8-12.

This is what I personally think:
- Past data serves only as a reference to start you off on the setting values.
- Settings should not be changed often. Change only when market conditions require it.
- Different exchanges may require different settings because of different commissions and volatility. Adjust accordingly.

My plan:
- EMA values not adjusted
- Adjust interval to suit market conditions. No more than 12 trades per month.
- Different intervals for different exchanges

Hope it is useful to you.

[Bitcopia]

I am in need of a little help...

I started using the Bot on the 24th Feb and struggled with working out what settings to use (not how they work - that's fairly clear thanks to this thread) and finally settled on 18/38 with thresholds set to 0/0.2 which back testing suggested profits would be positive (1.05% over a week, 20% over a month and 64% over 2 months - I don't see the point of anything longer given the basically "up" nature from before that).

Now I know that I need to wait and that the bot will loose 70% of the time but at the moment it is loosing 100% of the time and doesn't seem to capitalise even in large swing situations like last week.  I started with $91 (it was originally $100 but moving it into BTC lost me money at the time) and now I have $80.  BB buys/sells at the cross overs as designed but there is always a jump in the "wrong" direct at that time so it seems to buy at more than it then sells for

I assume others are actually making money (!) so what am I doing wrong? I have considered -50/0 so that it buys on the turn to minimise the impact of buying into a market which I guess is being moved by EMA trading but back testing always shows this to be a bad idea.

So as the sub title says - I need a little help because this isn't working at the moment (thank God I listened to the advice to put some "play" money in first!)

Thanks all

Milles

Milles,

This is a poor market for EMA trading at the moment. I've turned off my bot since mid-January because I felt a sustained period of relatively stable price or slow decline coming for the next couple months. Stable price is bad for EMA crossover strategies or really any trading strategy.

Also, be aware that you may be losing 100% of your first trades right now, but you might win the next 3. You might lose the first 20 and win the next 6. Or you might just always lose (but this is about as unlikely as always winning). It's just unfortunate to experience the drawdown at the beginning, because you start to question the strategy and sometimes break from the plan and act on emotions. If you stick to the plan, you will likely enter the market on the next major swing and make up all of your drawdown. However, it can be advantageous to analyze the current market sentiment and adjust your plan accordingly. Just always have a plan, and always honor your plan, or you will lose.

I've saved about 15% of my account balance by turning the bot off so far. I have set resistance points / crossovers that when satisfied, I will re-enter the market and turn the bot back on. Butterbot is a great tool, and in some of these extreme BTC market conditions, you can even just set it and forget it and still see large gains. But if you want to maximize your gains, it takes a decent knowledge of trading, planning, strategy adjustment, and emotional disregard.

I think that the "always have a plan" bit is the aspect that most bites - how to balance the need to leave BB to get on with it and when to fiddle around to adjust to the conditions.  At the moment my choosing of variables is a fairly random; plug in 18/39, 18/50, 12/20 etc pairs and see what back testing says.  This really doesn't feel planned, more random motion.  Coupled with the fact that at the start I finally found some settings which were predicted to work - then I find that they dont seem to work.  Do I just swap to something else (on the assumption I can find a set which worked for last week) or stick with what I've got and wait for the 30/70% split to swing?  At some point the need to constantly adjust the settings stops being a plan becomes a pain

Coupled with a lack of any science/rigour about how to find and select the variables at the moment and this all feels very "un planned" and random which is both against your sentiment and my hopes for having a bot.

Where do I go to in order to improve my knowledge and technique here?

Miles

The plan can have multiple layers to it. For instance, my plan is to have the bot on, trading with my defined settings. However, I also have a plan to turn the bot off for sideways or slowly and steadily descending markets, as EMA crossover is a poor strategy in sideways markets. Certain criteria must be met for me to turn the bot off. And likewise to turn the bot back on. Some of the criteria include news, trading volume, my own personal sentiment (can be dangerous), key points of resistance and support, as well as analyzing EMA's across multiple time frames. The main point is to have a predefined reason to do what you do. If you feel your plan needs to be changed that's fine! Just take your time in analyzing why and how you're going to change your plan, and don't change it too often. Rash decisions wipe out accounts.

As referenced throughout this thread, here is Goomboo's EMA crossover strategy thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60501.0
It will provide you with everything you need to know. Spend some time there.

[Bitcopia]

I think that the "always have a plan" bit is the aspect that most bites - how to balance the need to leave BB to get on with it and when to fiddle around to adjust to the conditions.  At the moment my choosing of variables is a fairly random; plug in 18/39, 18/50, 12/20 etc pairs and see what back testing says.  This really doesn't feel planned, more random motion.  Coupled with the fact that at the start I finally found some settings which were predicted to work - then I find that they dont seem to work.  Do I just swap to something else (on the assumption I can find a set which worked for last week) or stick with what I've got and wait for the 30/70% split to swing?  At some point the need to constantly adjust the settings stops being a plan becomes a pain

Coupled with a lack of any science/rigour about how to find and select the variables at the moment and this all feels very "un planned" and random which is both against your sentiment and my hopes for having a bot.

Where do I go to in order to improve my knowledge and technique here?

Miles

The whole Butter Bot started with Goomboo's journal thread.
What I learnt:
- When lower EMA crosses higher higher EMA, buy. Sell for opposite scenario.
- There is no hard and fast rule on EMA value setting. Just choose one that you like. Can be random as well.
- Manage the number of trades to reduce commissions for exchanges and slippage. Recommended trades per month: 8-12.

This is what I personally think:
- Past data serves only as a reference to start you off on the setting values.
- Settings should not be changed often. Change only when market conditions require it.
- Different exchanges may require different settings because of different commissions and volatility. Adjust accordingly.

My plan:
- EMA values not adjusted
- Adjust interval to suit market conditions. No more than 12 trades per month.
- Different intervals for different exchanges

Hope it is useful to you.

Good general synopsis. However, I don't advise random EMAs. Heat-mapping is a useful technique.

[fible1]

Updated Starter Settings:

We are issuing the following updated "starter" settings for the current market:

We recommend the following starter settings:

Short EMA: 15    Long EMA: 31
Buy 1: 0    Buy 2: 1
Sell 1: 0    Sell 2: 1
1 hour time window.

Please also make sure to set a tick offset.

Let me know if anyone has any questions.

Pablo.

[fible1]

******************
Request for Input:
******************

Friends,
  We need your help with our new development project and we would love to hear from you:

1. What trading strategies would you like to see?

2. What trading indicators (or combination thereof) are important to you?

3. What features would you like to see in our next gen bot (settings profiles, etc.)?

We appreciate everyones input and if we could get a discussion going on what you guys think would be core features of our next generation trading bot, that would be great. We want to get as much of the stuff you guys want in there as possible!

Pablo.

[NginUS]

******************
Request for Input:
******************

Friends,
  We need your help with our new development project and we would love to hear from you?

1. What trading strategies would you like to see?

2. What trading indicators (or combination thereof) are important to you?

3. What features would you like to see in our next gen bot (settings profiles, etc.)?

We appreciate everyones input and if we could get a discussion going on what you guys think would be core features of our next generation trading bot, that would be great. We want to get as much of the stuff you guys want in there as possible!

Pablo.

I want to see profit & loss tracking somehow.