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Author Topic: Bitmain looks like they're releasing a 15GH/s DASH miner called the AntMiner D3  (Read 232361 times)
Albortz
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October 05, 2017, 04:03:38 PM
 #3361

I think mining is technically illegal in Europe as it's illegal to print money/ generate currency. But I'm not sure if there are specific laws or they can apply or warp existing laws to target mining.

In most of the EU countries the crypto / mining thing has a grey statute.That meaning that there is no law to support it or to condemn it.


What he said, furthermore, once 1 country officially allows it or has a ruling, you can sue your government for interfering with your right to a free market.

Germany had a ruling that for every transaction done with BTC you need to add 19% VAT on top. So let's say you sold 100€ of BTC to a business they paid 119€ and got 19€ back in taxes from the state.  If you sold to a private person you sold BTC worth 100€ and had to pay 19€ to the state or your customer had to pay 119 for 100 real value...

The EUGH changed that after someone in Sweden I believe sued the government, now it is the law in all european countries that you cant add VAT on top of Bitcoin sales

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October 05, 2017, 05:30:55 PM
 #3362

I think mining is technically illegal in Europe as it's illegal to print money/ generate currency. But I'm not sure if there are specific laws or they can apply or warp existing laws to target mining.

In most of the EU countries the crypto / mining thing has a grey statute.That meaning that there is no law to support it or to condemn it.


What he said, furthermore, once 1 country officially allows it or has a ruling, you can sue your government for interfering with your right to a free market.

Germany had a ruling that for every transaction done with BTC you need to add 19% VAT on top. So let's say you sold 100€ of BTC to a business they paid 119€ and got 19€ back in taxes from the state.  If you sold to a private person you sold BTC worth 100€ and had to pay 19€ to the state or your customer had to pay 119 for 100 real value...

The EUGH changed that after someone in Sweden I believe sued the government, now it is the law in all european countries that you cant add VAT on top of Bitcoin sales


Its also in The Netherlands. It will be taxt as private goods (box 3 = like 1,2% a year) and not taxable by transfering it to a other person or company.

I also informed by the tax institution how home mining must be taxt. They said it must be taxt as income (box 1 = about 40% a year). I disagreed with then because its pure speculation (look at the risk investment of the D3) for me, just like stock exchanges that are also hold in box 3. I informed an accountant he said home mining is indeed the low tax rate. It is a little bit grey area, because there is no case law spoken by a judge. So if the D3 gives me profit i will let it taxs on the low rate. I also have legal insurrance cover within the Netherlands, so i am save and nothing illegal.

Sortly said the define cloudmining in the low rate taxs and home mining (advice by goverment legal tax employee, not statet by law)  in the high rate income tax, because you did put some effort in it (pff, yea right.. log in to the miner and config pool and wallet by the pool)
isukabtc
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October 05, 2017, 05:58:57 PM
 #3363

Hello guys, Im curious about D3
1. What chip series antminer use ?
2. What is D3 default core clock speed ? (not mining speed)

Thanks..

Still curious, any info guys ?
Dopert
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October 05, 2017, 06:46:37 PM
 #3364



This is a printscreen from ealier post. Do you mean the frequency (487)? About chipset i believe its the 16nm.
Albortz
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October 05, 2017, 07:05:10 PM
 #3365

I think mining is technically illegal in Europe as it's illegal to print money/ generate currency. But I'm not sure if there are specific laws or they can apply or warp existing laws to target mining.

In most of the EU countries the crypto / mining thing has a grey statute.That meaning that there is no law to support it or to condemn it.


What he said, furthermore, once 1 country officially allows it or has a ruling, you can sue your government for interfering with your right to a free market.

Germany had a ruling that for every transaction done with BTC you need to add 19% VAT on top. So let's say you sold 100€ of BTC to a business they paid 119€ and got 19€ back in taxes from the state.  If you sold to a private person you sold BTC worth 100€ and had to pay 19€ to the state or your customer had to pay 119 for 100 real value...

The EUGH changed that after someone in Sweden I believe sued the government, now it is the law in all european countries that you cant add VAT on top of Bitcoin sales


Its also in The Netherlands. It will be taxt as private goods (box 3 = like 1,2% a year) and not taxable by transfering it to a other person or company.

I also informed by the tax institution how home mining must be taxt. They said it must be taxt as income (box 1 = about 40% a year). I disagreed with then because its pure speculation (look at the risk investment of the D3) for me, just like stock exchanges that are also hold in box 3. I informed an accountant he said home mining is indeed the low tax rate. It is a little bit grey area, because there is no case law spoken by a judge. So if the D3 gives me profit i will let it taxs on the low rate. I also have legal insurrance cover within the Netherlands, so i am save and nothing illegal.

Sortly said the define cloudmining in the low rate taxs and home mining (advice by goverment legal tax employee, not statet by law)  in the high rate income tax, because you did put some effort in it (pff, yea right.. log in to the miner and config pool and wallet by the pool)


I'm not an expert on Dutch tax law, but since I also have a business in the netherlands I can say your tax accountant is right and wrong at the same time.  

First of all it's not speculation. It would be if you bought the miner and sold it right away or within the given timeframe (germany 12 months)  in that case the profit arising from the sale would be speculative.

Mining, on the other hand, is not speculation. you are running a business since you bought it with the intention to make money and with the fact that these miners are still making money despite the rising diff you will have a hard time arguing.

The problem will be, if you do it privately as a home miner or if the belastingdienst  will argue it is a business with the intention of making moeny. (Long lasting, repeating and operating in a surplus)

Since that is not clear (same in poland,germany and switzerland) you might have good chances to dodge a bullet (unless you got like 50+ miners)

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isukabtc
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October 05, 2017, 07:10:38 PM
 #3366

https://i.imgur.com/3lWeGdN.png

This is a printscreen from ealier post. Do you mean the frequency (487)? About chipset i believe its the 16nm.

Yes it is.. Sometimes seller sells bad batch (let say it can only run 14ghs) but they overclock it to 15ghs+ WHILE it will void its warranty.. What I want to know is 487 the default speed ?

Chip series for the miner. Example antminer S9 using BM1387 but I cant find D3 chip everywhere.. Any info anyone ?

Thanks mate..
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October 05, 2017, 07:32:45 PM
 #3367

@Albortz; Yes de belastingdienst. The accountant did not compar it with speculation investment, but i did because its a gamble if there gone be profit  Roll Eyes And yes the amount of profit does count. The accountant first said that home mining is taxable in box 3 solong there is no law for it. But he was intrested in the amount. I said dont know. Can be 100 euro a month or 10.000 euro (i orderd 4x D3). Then he said he needed al the variables of generating the crypto. So a little mining (hobby wise) is not so intresting, but if you can pay your mortgage with it then it becomes diffrent  Angry that is exactly what i was hoping. Never gone make it. I already presold 3x D3.
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October 05, 2017, 07:44:21 PM
 #3368

Good news. If i get it right a X11 network is going to expand, creamcoin.

https://creamcoin.com/index.html
https://bitcoinist.com/wu-tang-clans-ghostface-killah-to-launch-cream-ico/
http://cream.technology/index.php/technology/132-hardware
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October 05, 2017, 07:53:05 PM
 #3369

IMHO, if you're a business and buy the miners, you write them as expense as you would do with any other expense you have for running business.
If you're a private person, you can't do the same.
Now, reasoning on the earnings and relating taxes, you're not strictly producing money, because crypto has no money status. At max, you're producing goods like you would with any other type of manufacturing. You owe taxes only when you sell the goods and transform them into money. As a business, you'd owe taxes on the excess of earnings on top of your expenses. As a private person, you owe taxes on top of everything, and cannot deduct the expenses.
You can't be taxed for holding crypto in a wallet, the same way you're not taxed for holding stock. It's only when you sell stock and only on your net gains.
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October 05, 2017, 08:43:11 PM
 #3370

IMHO, if you're a business and buy the miners, you write them as expense as you would do with any other expense you have for running business.
If you're a private person, you can't do the same.
Now, reasoning on the earnings and relating taxes, you're not strictly producing money, because crypto has no money status. At max, you're producing goods like you would with any other type of manufacturing. You owe taxes only when you sell the goods and transform them into money. As a business, you'd owe taxes on the excess of earnings on top of your expenses. As a private person, you owe taxes on top of everything, and cannot deduct the expenses.
You can't be taxed for holding crypto in a wallet, the same way you're not taxed for holding stock. It's only when you sell stock and only on your net gains.

You mean private person net gains are income taxs? I think this will be the case in the further. Still no law, so i will tax it as on top of everything (box 3 that is 1,2%). Belastingdienst must be happy this way. Because they already taxed the miner with btw (inc. transfercost) and a hole lot of energy tax what is super high here.

Earlier i also discust tax issua with albrostz about Giga Watt tokens, that is also not the way, because you own the miner. So best way for me is Genesis cloud ming then. Belastingdienst see this as a investment contract, like a capital insurrence (levenpolis / kapitaalverzekering).
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October 05, 2017, 10:44:23 PM
 #3371



Yes it is.. Sometimes seller sells bad batch (let say it can only run 14ghs) but they overclock it to 15ghs+ WHILE it will void its warranty.. What I want to know is 487 the default speed ?

Chip series for the miner. Example antminer S9 using BM1387 but I cant find D3 chip everywhere.. Any info anyone ?

Thanks mate..

BM 1760b (Btw. Untill now most miners have default of 17ghs)

https://mineshop.eu/dash-coin-miners/antminer-d3-detail
Bibi187
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October 06, 2017, 05:00:33 AM
 #3372

So far comparison between Granatgas and Zpool

Miner started mining same time and disconnect same time, exept if pool get down.

ZPOOL

http://www.zpool.ca/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Balance      0.00130587 DASH
   Total Unpaid ****      0.01603972 DASH
   Total Paid ***      0.15411574 DASH
   Total Earned      0.17015546 DASH

GRANATGAS

https://granatgas-pool.info/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Dash
(Pending Balance)   0.01678124   0.00682843      0.02360967 DASH
   Balance      0.00992471 DASH
   Total Paid      0.24489655 DASH


I will run this for some more day but obviously Zpool have something wrong ... Plus Zpool supposed to take less fee ...

Conclusion for moment dont use Zpool anymore oO

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bytiges
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October 06, 2017, 06:46:25 AM
 #3373

You mean private person net gains are income taxs? I think this will be the case in the further. Still no law, so i will tax it as on top of everything (box 3 that is 1,2%). Belastingdienst must be happy this way. Because they already taxed the miner with btw (inc. transfercost) and a hole lot of energy tax what is super high here.

Earlier i also discust tax issua with albrostz about Giga Watt tokens, that is also not the way, because you own the miner. So best way for me is Genesis cloud ming then. Belastingdienst see this as a investment contract, like a capital insurrence (levenpolis / kapitaalverzekering).
I'm not sure about Dutch law, but I'm quite sure any gains, even private person, is taxable. Except as private person you're not allowed to deduct expenses.

If you buy a House and resell it for a profit, you owe taxes on the sale. Crypto is not regulated but if it's relevant part of your income, I bet somebody will ask for taxes.

The point I was making is that you're only taxed when you convert crypto to real money (i.e. when you sell). Until then you can hold it tax-free because it's not money (yet).
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October 06, 2017, 07:11:57 AM
 #3374

is it still worth buying? Considering that would be shipped on november.

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October 06, 2017, 07:13:04 AM
 #3375

So far comparison between Granatgas and Zpool

Miner started mining same time and disconnect same time, exept if pool get down.

ZPOOL

http://www.zpool.ca/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Balance      0.00130587 DASH
   Total Unpaid ****      0.01603972 DASH
   Total Paid ***      0.15411574 DASH
   Total Earned      0.17015546 DASH

GRANATGAS

https://granatgas-pool.info/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Dash
(Pending Balance)   0.01678124   0.00682843      0.02360967 DASH
   Balance      0.00992471 DASH
   Total Paid      0.24489655 DASH


I will run this for some more day but obviously Zpool have something wrong ... Plus Zpool supposed to take less fee ...

Conclusion for moment dont use Zpool anymore oO

What's about NH. Is that better than Granat or not ?

BTW it will be half when october batch hit a buyer.  Grin
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October 06, 2017, 07:13:42 AM
 #3376

hashrate increase so fast
Chan8
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October 06, 2017, 10:44:46 AM
 #3377

So far comparison between Granatgas and Zpool

Miner started mining same time and disconnect same time, exept if pool get down.

ZPOOL

http://www.zpool.ca/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Balance      0.00130587 DASH
   Total Unpaid ****      0.01603972 DASH
   Total Paid ***      0.15411574 DASH
   Total Earned      0.17015546 DASH

GRANATGAS

https://granatgas-pool.info/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Dash
(Pending Balance)   0.01678124   0.00682843      0.02360967 DASH
   Balance      0.00992471 DASH
   Total Paid      0.24489655 DASH


I will run this for some more day but obviously Zpool have something wrong ... Plus Zpool supposed to take less fee ...

Conclusion for moment dont use Zpool anymore oO

What's about NH. Is that better than Granat or not ?

BTW it will be half when october batch hit a buyer.  Grin

What are the payout schemes of these mining pools? By comparing a few hrs of mining on these pools and  not clarifying the payout scheme of each pool.

Am i missing something?

BenRickert
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October 06, 2017, 11:26:28 AM
 #3378

So far comparison between Granatgas and Zpool

Miner started mining same time and disconnect same time, exept if pool get down.

ZPOOL

http://www.zpool.ca/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Balance      0.00130587 DASH
   Total Unpaid ****      0.01603972 DASH
   Total Paid ***      0.15411574 DASH
   Total Earned      0.17015546 DASH

GRANATGAS

https://granatgas-pool.info/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Dash
(Pending Balance)   0.01678124   0.00682843      0.02360967 DASH
   Balance      0.00992471 DASH
   Total Paid      0.24489655 DASH


I will run this for some more day but obviously Zpool have something wrong ... Plus Zpool supposed to take less fee ...

Conclusion for moment dont use Zpool anymore oO

What's about NH. Is that better than Granat or not ?

BTW it will be half when october batch hit a buyer.  Grin

What are the payout schemes of these mining pools? By comparing a few hrs of mining on these pools and  not clarifying the payout scheme of each pool.

Am i missing something?
You have to use at least 24 hours of time if your going to make samplings of performance. Especially with switching pools. There are many times intermittently where your server may be idle between coins and or having shares rejected on low Diff coins. Having said that, there seems to be ample opportunity for "shenanigans" within the switching pools.
VoskCoin
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October 06, 2017, 12:50:37 PM
 #3379

So far comparison between Granatgas and Zpool

Miner started mining same time and disconnect same time, exept if pool get down.

ZPOOL

http://www.zpool.ca/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Balance      0.00130587 DASH
   Total Unpaid ****      0.01603972 DASH
   Total Paid ***      0.15411574 DASH
   Total Earned      0.17015546 DASH

GRANATGAS

https://granatgas-pool.info/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Dash
(Pending Balance)   0.01678124   0.00682843      0.02360967 DASH
   Balance      0.00992471 DASH
   Total Paid      0.24489655 DASH


I will run this for some more day but obviously Zpool have something wrong ... Plus Zpool supposed to take less fee ...

Conclusion for moment dont use Zpool anymore oO

https://youtu.be/NNBZzuBcfMk

I had pretty similar findings with my antminer d3

zpool.ca


///

granatgas



+ also does anyone have a d3 sitting on nicehash I could watch if you dont want to post the link here then PM?

Check out my Crypto YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/VoskCoin
If you enjoy my content click Subscribe
zamans98
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October 06, 2017, 05:04:22 PM
 #3380

So far comparison between Granatgas and Zpool

Miner started mining same time and disconnect same time, exept if pool get down.

ZPOOL

http://www.zpool.ca/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Balance      0.00130587 DASH
   Total Unpaid ****      0.01603972 DASH
   Total Paid ***      0.15411574 DASH
   Total Earned      0.17015546 DASH

GRANATGAS

https://granatgas-pool.info/?address=XhxVMxLxkDE9jUKvWET2Gfj2cqNS2ip2BQ

   Dash
(Pending Balance)   0.01678124   0.00682843      0.02360967 DASH
   Balance      0.00992471 DASH
   Total Paid      0.24489655 DASH


I will run this for some more day but obviously Zpool have something wrong ... Plus Zpool supposed to take less fee ...

Conclusion for moment dont use Zpool anymore oO

https://youtu.be/NNBZzuBcfMk

I had pretty similar findings with my antminer d3

zpool.ca


///

granatgas



+ also does anyone have a d3 sitting on nicehash I could watch if you dont want to post the link here then PM?


Dude, how that is similar vs of Bibi187???
Zpool.ca $0.082
G'gas  $0.081
Your case, zpool.ca is higher no?
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