Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[AsicShill]

I am sure everyone has seen it already... but BigTimeCoin has received his 4/17 bulk chip purchase.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282452.msg3021324#msg3021324

There was also a rumor that Zefir received 4 batches over the weekend.
http://www.coindesk.com/bitmine-to-drop-4phs-of-asic-power-onto-bitcoin-network-before-april/

Maybe like rip van winkle... Yifu has awoke from his slumber to see that world has changed (and maybe unlike Rip, Yify has started to do something about it).

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[erk]

I am sure everyone has seen it already... but BigTimeCoin has received his 4/17 bulk chip purchase.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282452.msg3021324#msg3021324

There was also a rumor that Zefir received 4 batches over the weekend.
http://www.coindesk.com/bitmine-to-drop-4phs-of-asic-power-onto-bitcoin-network-before-april/

Maybe like rip van winkle... Yifu has awoke from his slumber to see that world has changed (and maybe unlike Rip, Yify has started to do something about it).

It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs. What were they thinking? What sort of a business plan is that? I know, more must be better!

[jspielberg]

The other chips (bitfury and their own 28nm) mentioned in the article make more sense for long term mining (as stated).

I don't think they were planning on getting to 4PH on Avalon chips.... you would need your own power station.
The part of the article that didn't make sense to me was the "supercomputer"?  A super computer would be crappy as a hasher compared to an asic.

Maybe the whole article is full of crap... /shrug

[Syke]

It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs.

Don't be ridiculous. It's going to be quite some time before Avalon chips can't cover power costs.

[erk]

The other chips (bitfury and their own 28nm) mentioned in the article make more sense for long term mining (as stated).

I don't think they were planning on getting to 4PH on Avalon chips.... you would need your own power station.
The part of the article that didn't make sense to me was the "supercomputer"?  A super computer would be crappy as a hasher compared to an asic.

Maybe the whole article is full of crap... /shrug

Even if they get better chips, the hash rate is rising faster than Moore's Law, which works on hardware performance doubling every 18mths. I don't think ASIC mining scales to suit big farms. I think it is best for home users with no staff or rent overheads, I might be wrong, but so far none of the big projects make sense on paper unless BTC/USD starts doubling in price every few months.

I bet when the big farms made their plans, they didn't know about KNCminer, Hashfast, Cointerra, BFL 28nm etc.

[DeathAndTaxes]

It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs.

Don't be ridiculous. It's going to be quite some time before Avalon chips can't cover power costs.

17.9 PH @ $100 exchange rate & $0.10 per kWh.  It could happen mid next year.  If you believe some of the "exponential growth forever" kids it will happen in 10 weeks or some nonsense.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279

[erk]

It's quite laughable, 4PH/s of obsolete 110nm Avalon chips with no chance of ROI, probably wont even cover power costs.

Don't be ridiculous. It's going to be quite some time before Avalon chips can't cover power costs.

17.9 PH @ $100 exchange rate & $0.10 per kWh.  It could happen mid next year.  If you believe some of the "exponential growth forever" kids it will happen in 10 weeks or some nonsense.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=281279

Don't forget to double your electricity costs to allow for the air conditioning.  If you have to hire even a single staff member to run the show, their wages would buy a lot of electricity. Data center space is not cheap either.

The article also said Bitmine were in Hong Kong where the electricity is way more than $0.10 per kWh.
http://www.hkelectric.com/web/CommercialAndIndustrialServices/BillingPaymentAndElectricityTariff/TariffTable/Index_en.htm

[DeathAndTaxes]

Don't forget to double your electricity costs to allow for the air conditioning.  If you have to hire even a single staff member to run the show, their wages would buy a lot of electricity. Data center space is not cheap either.

Good point on the AC. 

[User705]

I don't think ASIC mining scales to suit big farms. I think it is best for home users with no staff or rent overheads, I might be wrong, but so far none of the big projects make sense on paper unless BTC/USD starts doubling in price every few months.

+1  

You are very right about this.  Bitcoin mining does not make any business sense.  Only when projections of ever increasing BTC/USD exchange rate are included a business plan, the numbers add up.

Big farms have big capital expenditures, operating costs AND ever decreasing profits.  How is it attractive from a business perspective?  It is extremely risky, needs lots of capital and profits are decreasing every two weeks.  You need to add more capital to invest in more hardware and infrastructure to maintain the same profit level.  But even then the the actual profit/capital invested is decreasing as time goes on.

If you build 14M data center, the capacity of that center might be reached within first few months, then what? You build another one?  Another 14M?

Don't forget to double your electricity costs to allow for the air conditioning.  If you have to hire even a single staff member to run the show, their wages would buy a lot of electricity. Data center space is not cheap either.

Good point on the AC. 

I got an interesting idea regarding this.  Looking for trusted hero members to partner up.  If any are interested PM me plz.

[superduh]

Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.

I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.

intentional fraud,if proven, should be punishable by jail especially if there is no restitution to the victims. we can't have people arbitrarily held accountable.

[erk]

So where did that Avalon chip shipment that was tracked to Hong Kong end up, at Bitmine?

[rebelrat]

Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.

I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.

intentional fraud,if proven, should be punishable by jail especially if there is no restitution to the victims. we can't have people arbitrarily held accountable.

Could not agree more.  As I said before, to hurt the gangsta is to take his money, that seems what he
craves.  His actions are criminal, by any legal standard, that is besides the  civil  liabilities  incurred.
Well played, a good legal team can bury him financially for the  rest of his life, besides the time he will
have to serve.  We are talking about several Million $ - that is no chickenfeed, not by any standard.
When you get caught embezzling Millions, you usually end up doing time in the US.

[eve]

So where did that Avalon chip shipment that was tracked to Hong Kong end up, at Bitmine?

A possibility Bitmine have to pay extra to shipped the chips maybe another $2k or so to Yifu, so he can ship his batch a head of others,.

[Unacceptable]

Prison? Jeez.. I'm as upset with the delays as anyone, but this seems a little harsh.

I do agree though that Avalon are basically scammers at this point.

intentional fraud,if proven, should be punishable by jail especially if there is no restitution to the victims. we can't have people arbitrarily held accountable.

Could not agree more.  As I said before, to hurt the gangsta is to take his money, that seems what he
craves.  His actions are criminal, by any legal standard, that is besides the  civil  liabilities  incurred.
Well played, a good legal team can bury him financially for the  rest of his life, besides the time he will
have to serve.  We are talking about several Million $ - that is no chickenfeed, not by any standard.
When you get caught embezzling Millions, you usually end up doing time in the US.

Sonny V. from BFL got away with it(slap on the wrist only),so will Y I FU   

[badalien]

Yifu ripped us, day by day by day. Day by day lies.  The men must in court.

[SebastianJu]

I don't think ASIC mining scales to suit big farms. I think it is best for home users with no staff or rent overheads, I might be wrong, but so far none of the big projects make sense on paper unless BTC/USD starts doubling in price every few months.

+1  

You are very right about this.  Bitcoin mining does not make any business sense.  Only when projections of ever increasing BTC/USD exchange rate are included a business plan, the numbers add up.

Big farms have big capital expenditures, operating costs AND ever decreasing profits.  How is it attractive from a business perspective?  It is extremely risky, needs lots of capital and profits are decreasing every two weeks.  You need to add more capital to invest in more hardware and infrastructure to maintain the same profit level.  But even then the the actual profit/capital invested is decreasing as time goes on.

If you build 14M data center, the capacity of that center might be reached within first few months, then what? You build another one?  Another 14M?

Its not correct that a rising bitcoin exchange price is good for anything. If you await that the bitcoin price is rising then it would be smarter to simply buy bitcoins.

[erk]

Its not correct that a rising bitcoin exchange price is good for anything. If you await that the bitcoin price is rising then it would be smarter to simply buy bitcoins.

I'm pretty certain by now that most people are counting on the BTC price to rise.

As we have seen, people will do weak business plans an build big mining farms regardless of the trends and facts about difficulty staring them in the face.

[pajak666]

Ok here as promised:
Photos from chinese stuff importer in Poland.
According to what he says somebody ordered 500 chips by him, and did not show up to pick up his order.
Here is most funny part, he writes:
"mamy 500szt, ale nic nie stoi na przeszkodzie, aby w około miesiąc czasu ściągnąć większą ilość z Azji, gdyby tylko miał Pan zbyt na to."
Which stands for "we got 500 pieces, but it's not a problem to import whole lot more from Asia, only if you could find a place where to sell it"
He is just a middle man, clueless what to do with the chips


Hi res pictures
http://extrazoom.com/image-5697.html?heuln50x50
http://extrazoom.com/image-5696.html?heuln50x50

He is asking 31$ per chip.
VOILA that's where yifu shipped bitcointalk community chips, to a local resellers in Asia
Alibaba offers are real and toabao offers are real.
Still not in the mood for a proper lawsuit?

[SebastianJu]

Its not correct that a rising bitcoin exchange price is good for anything. If you await that the bitcoin price is rising then it would be smarter to simply buy bitcoins.

I'm pretty certain by now that most people are counting on the BTC price to rise.

As we have seen, people will do weak business plans an build big mining farms regardless of the trends and facts about difficulty staring them in the face.

Maybe some of them want a couple of my bitburner when i have them...

[Xialla]

He is asking 31$ per chip.
VOILA that's where yifu shipped bitcointalk community chips, to a local resellers in Asia
Alibaba offers are real and toabao offers are real.
Still not in the mood for a proper lawsuit?

hmm it is so sad, how this chinese idiot from basement fuck up with community here. no words to comment this..