Black Arrow 28nm 100Ghash Bitcoin ASIC from $0.49/GH/s

[jimmothy]

New price for AntMiner S1: 0.468 btc each one, shipping cost included.

EVEN CHEAPER, Look at this BA tell us you aren't changing the compensation.

Forget that kingcolex, look at Pistachio's post above for Juan's groupbuy:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=608147.msg6715210#msg6715210


It makes a mockery of anything BA has to offer, shipping in a little over a week .  $1.65 per GH/s.

Where's Jimmothy to try make heads or tails out of this one?  

We already know you won't be satisfied until BA gives 500% compensation.

Are you only here to tell us how bad of a deal we are getting? Your last 50 posts have said just about only that.

BA after comp is $1.66/gh and bitmain is $1.65/gh for a much less efficient miner.

I do understand why some of you without orders with BA would be furious that us with orders are getting screwed out of one entire penny per GH. Having a chip on your shoulder is the norm around here.

[ChuckBuck]

Jimmothy is BA's perfect customer.  Will accept any compensation or shipping date as doing him a solid.

What, BA, you're shipping in July now??     YIPEEE HOORAY!!!!   

[jimmothy]

X-1 owners is not 1.66/gh after comp, i paid 340$ for 100ghash, i am getting 120ghash for my 340 and a coupon for 50% off if i buy another one. That is $3.40/ghash and with comp and the price increase on the miner an extra $140 for 120ghash. so grand total of $460 for 240 ghash still $1.91/ghash for one miner that doesn't exist yet and then for the other one two batches away. Tell me how i am paying $1.66/gh?

I'm talking about x3s($6000/3.6th). X1s will always be slightly more expensive per gh being a small device (requiring more parts per chip)

[Syke]

I'm talking about x3s($6000/3.6th). X1s will always be slightly more expensive per gh being a small device (requiring more parts per chip)

3.6 TH/s is a bit optimistic at this point. They don't have a single X-3 running at full speed yet.

[jimmothy]

I'm talking about x3s($6000/3.6th). X1s will always be slightly more expensive per gh being a small device (requiring more parts per chip)

3.6 TH/s is a bit optimistic at this point. They don't have a single X-3 running at full speed yet.

True. And until then it is somewhat pointless arguing about compensation since we really don't know what they will be shipping us.

But all I'm saying is we are not getting ripped off here. BA is very close if not ahead of the competition in terms of cost/gh/efficiency.

[jimmothy]

The $ per GH can only be calculated based on current market conditions, aka what they are currently advertised/sold for...so...

According to BA's website an

X-1
100 GH/s for $373 ------>  $3.73 $/GH

X-3
2000 GH/s for 5949.15 ------> $2.97 $/GH

We are currently being given 50% on top of that so...  (Keep in mind a new order today would not get that extra 50%)

X-1
150 GH/s for $373 ------> $2.49 $/GH

X-3
3000 GH/s for $5949.15 ------> $1.98 $/GH

What I paid so... (This will probably be different than what you paid)

I bought 8 X-1's (with compensation 1200 GH/s) for $2,919.60 or -------> $2.43 $/GH

COMPETITION (Only miners currently out)

Antminer
S1 (.468 * 450 = 210.60 per unit) + (Assume $60 for a PSU)
180 GH/s for $270.60 ------> $1.50 $/GH

S2 (Assume $400 coupon as everyone has one)
1000 GH/s for $1989 ------> $1.989 $/GH

More to Come (If I feel like doing others, feel free to add on if you want)

Moral of the story, BA is over $2/GH with the current compensation model (assuming you have an even number of units and you get the PSU for free. (To be honest I forgot to add in the extra cost for the PSU and now I dont want to go back and do it, may do it later)), the S1 is under $2/GH even adding in a $60 PSU.

EDIT: I understand this does not take into account efficiency, and only shows what Bobsag has posted pictures of which is 2 chips running at 200 GH/s

This is assuming 100gh which is what was tested at ss corner. I assume they can at least reach 120gh at tt corner. (which I believe was already tested before)

[jedimstr]

The $ per GH can only be calculated based on current market conditions, aka what they are currently advertised/sold for...so...

According to BA's website an

X-1
100 GH/s for $373 ------>  $3.73 $/GH

X-3
2000 GH/s for 5949.15 ------> $2.97 $/GH

We are currently being given 50% on top of that so...  (Keep in mind a new order today would not get that extra 50%)

X-1
150 GH/s for $373 ------> $2.49 $/GH

X-3
3000 GH/s for $5949.15 ------> $1.98 $/GH

What I paid so... (This will probably be different than what you paid)

I bought 8 X-1's (with compensation 1200 GH/s) for $2,919.60 or -------> $2.43 $/GH

COMPETITION (Only miners currently out)

Antminer
S1 (.468 * 450 = 210.60 per unit) + (Assume $60 for a PSU)
180 GH/s for $270.60 ------> $1.50 $/GH

S2 (Assume $400 coupon as everyone has one)
1000 GH/s for $1989 ------> $1.989 $/GH

More to Come (If I feel like doing others, feel free to add on if you want)

Moral of the story, BA is over $2/GH with the current compensation model (assuming you have an even number of units and you get the PSU for free. (To be honest I forgot to add in the extra cost for the PSU and now I dont want to go back and do it, may do it later)), the S1 is under $2/GH even adding in a $60 PSU.

EDIT: I understand this does not take into account efficiency, and only shows what Bobsag has posted pictures of which is 2 chips running at 200 GH/s

This is assuming 100gh which is what was tested at ss corner. I assume they can at least reach 120gh at tt corner. (which I believe was already tested before)

Yea but even their thread says advertised from $2.97 GH/s.  So I do not see a reason to adjust this until they are as confident in that as they seem to be at 100 GH/s

Also keep in mind that that's advertised speed versus "what it can overclock to".  

If you want to play that game, as Jimmothy seems to want you to, then you should adjust the S1 numbers because most can easily hit around 200 GH (various overclock values from 375 - 400 Mhz).  And those are proven, long since shipped, in hand, with many overclocked at that speed since the beginning of this year.   So, if the X-1 comparison is at 120GH, use 200GH for S1.  That's fair.

[Syke]

But all I'm saying is we are not getting ripped off here. BA is very close if not ahead of the competition in terms of cost/gh/efficiency.

The current compensation plan is about right if they ship everything next week. It's naive to think they actually will ship then. They should have demoed a full X-3 running by this point. It's safe to say a lot of people are rightly concerned about continued delays.

[jimmothy]

Also keep in mind that that's advertised speed versus "what it can overclock to".  

If you want to play that game, as Jimmothy seems to want you to, then you should adjust the S1 numbers because most can easily hit around 200 GH (various overclock values from 375 - 400 Mhz).  And those are proven, long since shipped, in hand, with many overclocked at that speed since the beginning of this year.   So, if the X-1 comparison is at 120GH, use 200GH for S1.  That's fair.

I don't see it as playing games. I see it as a fair comparison. S1 at $1.35/gh is a great deal (possibly the best?) but 2w/gh is not very good.

X3 would need to be overclocked to 150gh to match the S1s price.

But all I'm saying is we are not getting ripped off here. BA is very close if not ahead of the competition in terms of cost/gh/efficiency.

The current compensation plan is about right if they ship everything next week. It's naive to think they actually will ship then. They should have demoed a full X-3 running by this point. It's safe to say a lot of people are rightly concerned about continued delays.

True. But if they don't ship reasonably soon don't you think they would up the compensation?

[ChuckBuck]

Also keep in mind that that's advertised speed versus "what it can overclock to".  

If you want to play that game, as Jimmothy seems to want you to, then you should adjust the S1 numbers because most can easily hit around 200 GH (various overclock values from 375 - 400 Mhz).  And those are proven, long since shipped, in hand, with many overclocked at that speed since the beginning of this year.   So, if the X-1 comparison is at 120GH, use 200GH for S1.  That's fair.

I don't see it as playing games. I see it as a fair comparison. S1 at $1.35/gh is a great deal (possibly the best?) but 2w/gh is not very good.

X3 would need to be overclocked to 150gh to match the S1s price.

But all I'm saying is we are not getting ripped off here. BA is very close if not ahead of the competition in terms of cost/gh/efficiency.

The current compensation plan is about right if they ship everything next week. It's naive to think they actually will ship then. They should have demoed a full X-3 running by this point. It's safe to say a lot of people are rightly concerned about continued delays.

True. But if they don't ship reasonably soon don't you think they would up the compensation?

What do you think all this bitching and moaning is for, genius?

They're not going to ship reasonably soon, so we're trying to get them to up the compensation.

[jedimstr]

Also keep in mind that that's advertised speed versus "what it can overclock to".  

If you want to play that game, as Jimmothy seems to want you to, then you should adjust the S1 numbers because most can easily hit around 200 GH (various overclock values from 375 - 400 Mhz).  And those are proven, long since shipped, in hand, with many overclocked at that speed since the beginning of this year.   So, if the X-1 comparison is at 120GH, use 200GH for S1.  That's fair.

I don't see it as playing games. I see it as a fair comparison. S1 at $1.35/gh is a great deal (possibly the best?) but 2w/gh is not very good.

X3 would need to be overclocked to 150gh to match the S1s price.

Playing games, fair comparison...semantics... either way, I agree that you should compare on a level playing field.  Advertised speed vs. Advertised speed and stable Overclock settings vs. stable Overclock settings.  You should also keep in mind that you should compare the price at the actual shipped/arrival ETA dates.  Since the S1's seem to be priced lower and lower every day, assume that today's price will not be the S1 price when the X1's are shipping.

[jimmothy]

What do you think all this bitching and moaning is for, genius?

They're not going to ship reasonably soon, so we're trying to get them to up the compensation.

How do you know when/what compensation they will be shipping? Do you have a magic crystal ball?

I'd rather wait until deadlines are missed before starting my tirade.

[sorehammer]

Problem is what's the deadline no one has given new one.

[jimmothy]

Also keep in mind that that's advertised speed versus "what it can overclock to".  

If you want to play that game, as Jimmothy seems to want you to, then you should adjust the S1 numbers because most can easily hit around 200 GH (various overclock values from 375 - 400 Mhz).  And those are proven, long since shipped, in hand, with many overclocked at that speed since the beginning of this year.   So, if the X-1 comparison is at 120GH, use 200GH for S1.  That's fair.

I don't see it as playing games. I see it as a fair comparison. S1 at $1.35/gh is a great deal (possibly the best?) but 2w/gh is not very good.

X3 would need to be overclocked to 150gh to match the S1s price.

Playing games, fair comparison...semantics... either way, I agree that you should compare on a level playing field.  Advertised speed vs. Advertised speed and stable Overclock settings vs. stable Overclock settings.  You should also keep in mind that you should compare the price at the actual shipped/arrival ETA dates.  Since the S1's seem to be priced lower and lower every day, assume that today's price will not be the S1 price when the X1's are shipping.

True. But eventually they will have to stop lowering the price of the S1. Without slave labor I have no idea how they can produce and sell for so cheap.

[jedimstr]

What do you think all this bitching and moaning is for, genius?

They're not going to ship reasonably soon, so we're trying to get them to up the compensation.

How do you know when/what compensation they will be shipping? Do you have a magic crystal ball?

I'd rather wait until deadlines are missed before starting my tirade.

I thought the whole thread of tirades was because they missed deadline after deadline?  In what way are they on-time?  Moving the ball down the calendar multiple times with updates does not constitute being on time.  Or am I just crazy here?

[y_boonstra]

Iff they will need another 2 / 3 weeks before they ship we will see 1 or 2 diff jumps AGAIN.. wich will put us around 12+ Bil ..
THATS 4X + the initail diff @ the time we should have gotten them..!!

[y_boonstra]

Also keep in mind that that's advertised speed versus "what it can overclock to".  

If you want to play that game, as Jimmothy seems to want you to, then you should adjust the S1 numbers because most can easily hit around 200 GH (various overclock values from 375 - 400 Mhz).  And those are proven, long since shipped, in hand, with many overclocked at that speed since the beginning of this year.   So, if the X-1 comparison is at 120GH, use 200GH for S1.  That's fair.

I don't see it as playing games. I see it as a fair comparison. S1 at $1.35/gh is a great deal (possibly the best?) but 2w/gh is not very good.

X3 would need to be overclocked to 150gh to match the S1s price.

Playing games, fair comparison...semantics... either way, I agree that you should compare on a level playing field.  Advertised speed vs. Advertised speed and stable Overclock settings vs. stable Overclock settings.  You should also keep in mind that you should compare the price at the actual shipped/arrival ETA dates.  Since the S1's seem to be priced lower and lower every day, assume that today's price will not be the S1 price when the X1's are shipping.

True. But eventually they will have to stop lowering the price of the S1. Without slave labor I have no idea how they can produce and sell for so cheap.

Do you realy think producing a ant miner is expensive?

hell the can sell you a TV for less than what an ant miner cost + it has way more parts and laybor in it.

[jedimstr]

Also keep in mind that that's advertised speed versus "what it can overclock to".  

If you want to play that game, as Jimmothy seems to want you to, then you should adjust the S1 numbers because most can easily hit around 200 GH (various overclock values from 375 - 400 Mhz).  And those are proven, long since shipped, in hand, with many overclocked at that speed since the beginning of this year.   So, if the X-1 comparison is at 120GH, use 200GH for S1.  That's fair.

I don't see it as playing games. I see it as a fair comparison. S1 at $1.35/gh is a great deal (possibly the best?) but 2w/gh is not very good.

X3 would need to be overclocked to 150gh to match the S1s price.

Playing games, fair comparison...semantics... either way, I agree that you should compare on a level playing field.  Advertised speed vs. Advertised speed and stable Overclock settings vs. stable Overclock settings.  You should also keep in mind that you should compare the price at the actual shipped/arrival ETA dates.  Since the S1's seem to be priced lower and lower every day, assume that today's price will not be the S1 price when the X1's are shipping.

True. But eventually they will have to stop lowering the price of the S1. Without slave labor I have no idea how they can produce and sell for so cheap.

They can sell so cheap because these were already mined on by Bitmain for a long time...  even if they made just a penny on selling their S1's they'd already be profitable for them since they seem to be selling old inventory (true for at least a large portion of the ones they've sold, I've gotten ones that look used for months and ones that look brand spanking new).  The S2's are more expensive because they're actually brand new (except maybe some of the Batch 1 and 2 PSU's which had some examples of dusty old used units.... new orders seem to actually have new PSUs).

[jimmothy]

What do you think all this bitching and moaning is for, genius?

They're not going to ship reasonably soon, so we're trying to get them to up the compensation.

How do you know when/what compensation they will be shipping? Do you have a magic crystal ball?

I'd rather wait until deadlines are missed before starting my tirade.

I thought the whole thread of tirades was because they missed deadline after deadline?  In what way are they on-time?  Moving the ball down the calendar multiple times with updates does not constitute being on time.  Or am I just crazy here?

Afaik they have upped compensation each time a deadline was missed.

They can sell so cheap because these were already mined on by Bitmain for a long time...

I somewhat doubt this. They might be self mining but considering they sold more than 20% of the network I find it unlikely that a majority of the s1s are used.

[jimmothy]

Nope, they have upped the Compensation once and that was before May 1st.

Literally 4 whole days before may 1st.. You don't think they knew they would miss the may 1st deadline by then?