[Antminer S1 Sales open] Price changes daily, now 0.414 BTC for 180GH/s

[alexrossi]

Lets face it; Bitmain is in it for the money.  Capitalism Rules in communist China.
While they have a great track record of customer service, Bitmain has not been entirely honest with their customers and distributors.
Watch your 6 when dealing with these chinese based companies; greed is a powerful motivator.  Your interests are of no concern to them (unless you have a wallet full of money).

That is a whole cup of dumb right there… you basically summed up any business on the globe and you are a fool to think otherwise .. I have purchased a lot from Bitmain, and I have had issues here and there with hardware, guess what……. They always made it right … Did I get a refund, NO … Did I ever expect a refund , NO … but they made it right, they always fixed the hardware I purchased ...

They are atleast better than Ebay & Paypal.

You can compare ebay&paypal with bfl, or even at a lower level (especially paypal, king of legalized scammers)

[samsonn25]

When this will stop? 0.10BTC per miner? Maybe 0.05 more?

Probably when shipping costs meet or exceed any profit margin.  That's the official EOL imho.

It probably wont go under $75 usd

[solitude]

I have two S1 coupons and two S2 coupons

I'm selling the S1 coupons for .01 BTC and the S2 coupons for .015 BTC

Send PM if interested, I check PM's several times a day   

[klondike_bar]

When this will stop? 0.10BTC per miner? Maybe 0.05 more?

Probably when shipping costs meet or exceed any profit margin.  That's the official EOL imho.

It probably wont go under $75 usd

shipping the S1 alone costs them about $50

[samsonn25]

When this will stop? 0.10BTC per miner? Maybe 0.05 more?

Probably when shipping costs meet or exceed any profit margin.  That's the official EOL imho.

It probably wont go under $75 usd

shipping the S1 alone costs them about $50

I was assuming $35-40 shipping after volume discounts, and maybe $35-40 recycle value.

If shipping is close to $50 and parts recycle value is around $40, then they wont sell under $100 as they can just recycle the parts and not deal with the shipping.

While we are on that topic how do you think the asic miner farms and bit fury farms will expedite the older inventory as newer and more efficient chips come online.

[ShopemNL]

I have 20 - S2 $400 dollar coupons 0.4BTC each
I have 20 - S1 0.05 coupons 0.05btc each

Pm me if your intrested, escrow is no problem.

[philipma1957]

When this will stop? 0.10BTC per miner? Maybe 0.05 more?

Probably when shipping costs meet or exceed any profit margin.  That's the official EOL imho.

It probably wont go under $75 usd

shipping the S1 alone costs them about $50

I was assuming $35-40 shipping after volume discounts, and maybe $35-40 recycle value.

If shipping is close to $50 and parts recycle value is around $40, then they wont sell under $100 as they can just recycle the parts and not deal with the shipping.

While we are on that topic how do you think the asic miner farms and bit fury farms will expedite the older inventory as newer and more efficient chips come online.

not going to happen that fast.  newer faster more efficient chips   do not jump the bar a lot more.



gpu  =   300 watts for 1gh 

asic miner usb stick = 8 watts for 1 gh

bit fury usb stick = 1.5 watts for  1gh

antminer s2 = 1 watt for 1 gh

spoondoolies sp10 = .7 watt for 1 gh

spoondoolies sp30 = .46 watt for 1 gh ?


  the power saving for asics are close to bottomed out.

so what does it mean?   btc goes up  like it is today  solves the issue.

big companies keep the gear 

  an s-1 at 1.1 watts on a downvolt - downclock  will get turned on OCT 1 to supplement heating.

Lets say The best gear in the world gets to .2 watts….  it may not pay to move to it.

 just turn my gear off for the summer and use it for heating in the winter.  this could start to happen.

  if a btc stays under 500usd and   no one invents a .05 watt a gh chip   .  won't be asics be a new tech.


 

[samsonn25]

When this will stop? 0.10BTC per miner? Maybe 0.05 more?

Probably when shipping costs meet or exceed any profit margin.  That's the official EOL imho.

It probably wont go under $75 usd

shipping the S1 alone costs them about $50

I was assuming $35-40 shipping after volume discounts, and maybe $35-40 recycle value.

If shipping is close to $50 and parts recycle value is around $40, then they wont sell under $100 as they can just recycle the parts and not deal with the shipping.

While we are on that topic how do you think the asic miner farms and bit fury farms will expedite the older inventory as newer and more efficient chips come online.

not going to happen that fast.  newer faster more efficient chips   do not jump the bar a lot more.



gpu  =   300 watts for 1gh  

asic miner usb stick = 8 watts for 1 gh

bit fury usb stick = 1.5 watts for  1gh

antminer s2 = 1 watt for 1 gh

spoondoolies sp10 = .7 watt for 1 gh

spoondoolies sp30 = .46 watt for 1 gh ?


  the power saving for asics are close to bottomed out.

so what does it mean?   btc goes up  like it is today  solves the issue.

big companies keep the gear  

  an s-1 at 1.1 watts on a downvolt - downclock  will get turned on OCT 1 to supplement heating.

Lets say The best gear in the world gets to .2 watts….  it may not pay to move to it.

 just turn my gear off for the summer and use it for heating in the winter.  this could start to happen.

  if a btc stays under 500usd and   no one invents a .05 watt a gh chip   .  won't be asics be a new tech.


 

It not only the power issue.

They cannot build under $.50 per GH and make profit so why make it to lose money unless some miners still want to chase.  The difficulty outpace the improvement in technology.  The spoondoolies sp30 (even the 3 pack special promised in August, but I dont see it on website now.  They make this pre-order because they dont have enough money and capacity ) is stll way overpriced and its not here yet for a bit.  August 25 Billion diff?   could be a problem

[cozk]

How much time do they usually take to ship ?

[CanaryInTheMine]

i'd like to bring ya'lls attention to something else here...
we have gone from 130nm to 60 to 55 to 40 to 28 in how much time? just a year?

next up is 22 nm which is already in the works.  what's after that?

what size are the big gorillas on (and not even ASICs) here's some idea: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-cpu-processor-5nm,17578.html
why care about where big boys are? well, they tend to have an effect on what foundries are available for a specific nm size!!!

so by the end of this yr, Bitcoin ASICs may actually drive the nm size further down, and not the usual suspects (Intel, AMD)!??

I will make a bold prediction here that Bitcoin will begin (maybe accelerate is more appropriate of a word) anothor revolution wrt ICs and new technologies to base mining as well as other chips on...

damn these are exciting times we live in

[samsonn25]

They dont have the bankroll to do that.  They improved old chip design from someone else.  The next technology needed is not even out yet its in prototype stage. When this happens diff is too high anyway. And it will cost more to make it and power it than the btc it mines.

[windpath]

How much time do they usually take to ship ?

After they leave Bitmain (tracking # shows in online account) it took an average of 4 days to US east coast...

[ceslick]

Would love to get 2 more of these before they sold out..

But will have to wait till next month, have to make some more BTC!  ... or prey #whitecoin quadruples in value!

[digitizing]

anyone need coupons ?
5 S1 0.05 BTC coupon for 0.01 BTC each
5 S2 $400 coupon for 0.2 BTC each
no need to use escrow,
I will transfer the coupon first.

[philipma1957]

i'd like to bring ya'lls attention to something else here...
we have gone from 130nm to 60 to 55 to 40 to 28 in how much time? just a year?

next up is 22 nm which is already in the works.  what's after that?

what size are the big gorillas on (and not even ASICs) here's some idea: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-cpu-processor-5nm,17578.html
why care about where big boys are? well, they tend to have an effect on what foundries are available for a specific nm size!!!

so by the end of this yr, Bitcoin ASICs may actually drive the nm size further down, and not the usual suspects (Intel, AMD)!??

I will make a bold prediction here that Bitcoin will begin (maybe accelerate is more appropriate of a word) anothor revolution wrt ICs and new technologies to base mining as well as other chips on...

damn these are exciting times we live in

Sometimes I wonder if there is the beyond asic tech just around the corner.
 I can see seasonal mining catching on.  s-1's could be a nice nov to april piece of gear.

My last three are due on thur-fri. I may just keep them in a box for now. use them in the fall.  but then again coins are drifting up.  I would love to see an extended slow rally beyond the 2k a coin.  go up 100 usd a week for 16 weeks would be very nice.

[rograz]

what size are the big gorillas on (and not even ASICs) here's some idea: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-cpu-processor-5nm,17578.html
why care about where big boys are? well, they tend to have an effect on what foundries are available for a specific nm size!!!

20 nm this year, 16nm next year (most TSMC customers are skipping 20nm since 16nm goes into production this year) and then it will take until 2016 at least before next shrink. If by magic Intel opens up their fabs to anyone with enough cash we could see 14nm during 2015 (not gonna happen unless Intel runs into cash/capacity utilization concerns). Intel alone spends more per year than the entire BTC network is worth on r&d (over 10b 2013) , a substantial part of that is directed towards fab tech. The costs of r&d and fab costs has risen exponentially for each new node and there is a good reason very few companies has their own fabs these days (and even fewer of them are on the bleeding edge).

Until the day btc mining becomes a multi billion dollar industry it will have little effect on the rest of the tech industry. The days of rapid improvements are over and soon we'll be stuck with the same 24~ month cycles as the rest of the industry. Sure there most likely are design optimizations that can be done, the question is who is going to fund a new chips designs on a bleeding edge process for (relative) small gains in a already saturated market.

[SecureErase]

what size are the big gorillas on (and not even ASICs) here's some idea: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-cpu-processor-5nm,17578.html
why care about where big boys are? well, they tend to have an effect on what foundries are available for a specific nm size!!!

20 nm this year, 16nm next year (most TSMC customers are skipping 20nm since 16nm goes into production this year) and then it will take until 2016 at least before next shrink. If by magic Intel opens up their fabs to anyone with enough cash we could see 14nm during 2015 (not gonna happen unless Intel runs into cash/capacity utilization concerns). Intel alone spends more per year than the entire BTC network is worth on r&d (over 10b 2013) , a substantial part of that is directed towards fab tech. The costs of r&d and fab costs has risen exponentially for each new node and there is a good reason very few companies has their own fabs these days (and even fewer of them are on the bleeding edge).

Until the day btc mining becomes a multi billion dollar industry it will have little effect on the rest of the tech industry. The days of rapid improvements are over and soon we'll be stuck with the same 24~ month cycles as the rest of the industry. Sure there most likely are design optimizations that can be done, the question is who is going to fund a new chips designs on a bleeding edge process for (relative) small gains in a already saturated market.

rograz is 100% on the money. The semiconductor industry is massive shipping millions upon millions of chips of all different geometries, the BTC ASIC part of it is a small sideshow with relative low volume and only small players involved. See this news link of Altera chips on Intel 14nm process for bleeding edge semiconductor fabrication http://newsroom.altera.com/press-releases/nr-14nm-device.htm

[64dimensions]

what size are the big gorillas on (and not even ASICs) here's some idea: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-cpu-processor-5nm,17578.html
why care about where big boys are? well, they tend to have an effect on what foundries are available for a specific nm size!!!

20 nm this year, 16nm next year (most TSMC customers are skipping 20nm since 16nm goes into production this year) and then it will take until 2016 at least before next shrink. If by magic Intel opens up their fabs to anyone with enough cash we could see 14nm during 2015 (not gonna happen unless Intel runs into cash/capacity utilization concerns). Intel alone spends more per year than the entire BTC network is worth on r&d (over 10b 2013) , a substantial part of that is directed towards fab tech. The costs of r&d and fab costs has risen exponentially for each new node and there is a good reason very few companies has their own fabs these days (and even fewer of them are on the bleeding edge).

Until the day btc mining becomes a multi billion dollar industry it will have little effect on the rest of the tech industry. The days of rapid improvements are over and soon we'll be stuck with the same 24~ month cycles as the rest of the industry. Sure there most likely are design optimizations that can be done, the question is who is going to fund a new chips designs on a bleeding edge process for (relative) small gains in a already saturated market.

rograz is 100% on the money. The semiconductor industry is massive shipping millions upon millions of chips of all different geometries, the BTC ASIC part of it is a small sideshow with relative low volume and only small players involved. See this news link of Altera chips on Intel 14nm process for bleeding edge semiconductor fabrication http://newsroom.altera.com/press-releases/nr-14nm-device.htm

All of the above +10.  The fact that some of the chips (KNC?) were fabricated on 6" silicon lines, which are the back waters of the chip fab world, re-enforces the above. I would only add that if Intel decides to open up their fabs to outsiders, any crypto chip folks would get squashed in the stampede to get in line. A cheaper way forward in the crypto chip world might be some sort of low NRE 3D chip packaging trick.

[faustus66]

I have some coupons if anyone is looking:
3 S1 0.05 BTC Coupons valid till 05-29 available for free
17 S2 $400 Coupons valid till 05-30 available for 0.2 BTC each

[alexrossi]

I was assuming $35-40 shipping after volume discounts, and maybe $35-40 recycle value.

If shipping is close to $50 and parts recycle value is around $40, then they wont sell under $100 as they can just recycle the parts and not deal with the shipping.

While we are on that topic how do you think the asic miner farms and bit fury farms will expedite the older inventory as newer and more efficient chips come online.

Shipping with DHL/UPS is quite expensive, i don't expect that they are currently paying below 50-60$ per shipped S1.