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Author Topic: [Antminer S1 Sales open] Price changes daily, now 0.414 BTC for 180GH/s  (Read 346282 times)
paulchester
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April 24, 2014, 07:54:48 PM
 #4681


Not quite. You should include the cost of a power supply. And since April is nearly over, you don't get a full month at the low difficulty in your calculation. Look at this:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/379dc97925

Although tradeblock is too pessimistic on difficulty increases a few months out. So yes, a new S1 might break even.

yes but if you have a PSU laying round doing nothing anyway it will ROI. what amazes me is that every other miner that I know costs a lot more per GH than the S1 and those sell. they sell because people buy in dollars and believe that the price of bitcoin will increase. it might not return the BTC you payed but if you pay $310 for the BTC needed and then buy, use it to mine, and then wait a few months, bitcoin could be worth $1000 per coin, so even if you only make 0.5BTC you would actually have $500 which is $190 profit.
cad_cdn
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April 24, 2014, 08:03:24 PM
 #4682

and still bitmain keeps silent about expired coupons....that we couldn't use because there was no stock; and/or the website was not working when there was stock....
TracerX
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April 24, 2014, 08:07:21 PM
 #4683


Not quite. You should include the cost of a power supply. And since April is nearly over, you don't get a full month at the low difficulty in your calculation. Look at this:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/379dc97925

Although tradeblock is too pessimistic on difficulty increases a few months out. So yes, a new S1 might break even.

yes but if you have a PSU laying round doing nothing anyway it will ROI. what amazes me is that every other miner that I know costs a lot more per GH than the S1 and those sell. they sell because people buy in dollars and believe that the price of bitcoin will increase. it might not return the BTC you payed but if you pay $310 for the BTC needed and then buy, use it to mine, and then wait a few months, bitcoin could be worth $1000 per coin, so even if you only make 0.5BTC you would actually have $500 which is $190 profit.

Let's do some basic math here, guys.  While I understand the concept you are trying to describe, the logic is still wrong.

If you take the cash, buy the miner and make .5BTC, you have lost the money you would have made by simply holding the bitcoins.  Regardless of the current price of BTC, 0.5BTC will always be less than 0.63BTC.  All day, every day.  Mining will only turn a profit if it creates more BTC than the BTC you spent for the gear, regardless of the price of BTC.  Dig it?
judypug1956
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April 24, 2014, 08:13:27 PM
 #4684

i am advertising S1 units localy running at 140gh/s 165watt at 750$ including psu and getting some bites.
Got less interest when i advertised them at 180 or 200 with the high watt usage.

Well that is not really honest of you, as the specs of the BM1380 chip does not really support your Gh/W claim!
I have one of my S1 running 0.86V @250Mhz and it draws 164W at the wall. So I really would like you to show me how to get it to 140Gh/s without using more power!!!


okay and at your settings of 250mhz and pulling 164 watts at the wall what is the hash? 128gh? 135gh? also what is the psu? as a really good plat psu saves 5%


and my 2 orders now marked paid. 

Sry, yes: 128Gh and the PSU: http://www.xfxforce.com/en-us/products/xtr-series-full-modular/xtr-series-650w-psu-p1-650b-befx

okay I know that psu.  if you used this one

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371074

you would run a bit lower. maybe 128gh and 155 watts.

  also s-1s vary I have 3 over clocked to 400freq and they all use a different amount of power and 2 hash at 204gh and one hashes at 195gh.
 the point is  maybe 140gh at 165 watts could be done. maybe not.



For the one that is running 195GH, have you tried the 393 setting?
These settings worked like a charm on one of my S1 that gace HW error galore on 400Mhz:

#option 'freq_value'    '5f05'  #393.75M
         #option 'chip_freq'     '393.75'
         #option 'timeout'       '34'




 no as it is a very flakey model no matter what i do it won't allow the 393 setting. it may have the older firmware and I am a bit afraid to flash it.  I have  had my hands on 8 in house 1 doa

 7 work 6 work great   and the one flakey one.

 I sold a few of the good ones on ebay.  holding on to the flakey one.  it will be the first one I try to under volt and under clock come mid june.  unless fiat price jumps then I can put it off.

1956jUdYPFwiBSzt9AECdWj3KE4WV7taiM I can't do 1957philma.. for btc address the i are not allowed This is a secondary account for Philipma1957, don't do business with this account deal with philipma1957
judypug1956
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April 24, 2014, 08:19:45 PM
 #4685


Not quite. You should include the cost of a power supply. And since April is nearly over, you don't get a full month at the low difficulty in your calculation. Look at this:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/379dc97925

Although tradeblock is too pessimistic on difficulty increases a few months out. So yes, a new S1 might break even.

yes but if you have a PSU laying round doing nothing anyway it will ROI. what amazes me is that every other miner that I know costs a lot more per GH than the S1 and those sell. they sell because people buy in dollars and believe that the price of bitcoin will increase. it might not return the BTC you payed but if you pay $310 for the BTC needed and then buy, use it to mine, and then wait a few months, bitcoin could be worth $1000 per coin, so even if you only make 0.5BTC you would actually have $500 which is $190 profit.

Let's do some basic math here, guys.  While I understand the concept you are trying to describe, the logic is still wrong.

If you take the cash, buy the miner and make .5BTC, you have lost the money you would have made by simply holding the bitcoins.  Regardless of the current price of BTC, 0.5BTC will always be less than 0.63BTC.  All day, every day.  Mining will only turn a profit if it creates more BTC than the BTC you spent for the gear, regardless of the price of BTC.  Dig it?

wrong info for anyone in the usa. ----- well I should say  not complete info

holding coins are passive income mining is active income.  completely different tax laws.  I do not need any passive income .  I need active income ie mining or even selling the gear on  ebay at a profit .

All buy and hold advice or mine instead advice needs to now say if you are subject to USA tax law buy and hold  creates different tax consequences then  mine and sell

My advice to buy this at .63 btc should also say if you mine the USA tax law is different then if you  buy and hold.

1956jUdYPFwiBSzt9AECdWj3KE4WV7taiM I can't do 1957philma.. for btc address the i are not allowed This is a secondary account for Philipma1957, don't do business with this account deal with philipma1957
TracerX
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April 24, 2014, 08:28:29 PM
 #4686


Not quite. You should include the cost of a power supply. And since April is nearly over, you don't get a full month at the low difficulty in your calculation. Look at this:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/379dc97925

Although tradeblock is too pessimistic on difficulty increases a few months out. So yes, a new S1 might break even.

yes but if you have a PSU laying round doing nothing anyway it will ROI. what amazes me is that every other miner that I know costs a lot more per GH than the S1 and those sell. they sell because people buy in dollars and believe that the price of bitcoin will increase. it might not return the BTC you payed but if you pay $310 for the BTC needed and then buy, use it to mine, and then wait a few months, bitcoin could be worth $1000 per coin, so even if you only make 0.5BTC you would actually have $500 which is $190 profit.

Let's do some basic math here, guys.  While I understand the concept you are trying to describe, the logic is still wrong.

If you take the cash, buy the miner and make .5BTC, you have lost the money you would have made by simply holding the bitcoins.  Regardless of the current price of BTC, 0.5BTC will always be less than 0.63BTC.  All day, every day.  Mining will only turn a profit if it creates more BTC than the BTC you spent for the gear, regardless of the price of BTC.  Dig it?

wrong info for anyone in the usa. ----- well I should say  not complete info

holding coins are passive income mining is active income.  completely different tax laws.  I do not need any passive income .  I need active income ie mining or even selling the gear on  ebay at a profit .

All buy and hold advice or mine instead advice needs to now say if you are subject to USA tax law buy and hold  creates different tax consequences then  mine and sell

My advice to buy this at .63 btc should also say if you mine the USA tax law is different then if you  buy and hold.

Now this is a interesting thought exercise!  Shall we break down the math even further for individuals in the US?  I would be interested in how those numbers look side by side.  What does the difference look like for purchased equipment deprecation, taxes leveraged against generated coins with the device, power expenses, etc?  I suppose we're thread-jacking at this point, but I would be happy to discuss the nitty-gritty more!
kendog77
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April 24, 2014, 09:21:06 PM
 #4687

I  can't believe some people are actually arguing that a S1 for .63 BTC is not a great deal. Where else are you going to be able to get 1TH of mining power delivered within a week for 3.15 BTC (plus the cost of power supplies)?

I hadn't planned on buying anymore S1s, but the latest price drop was too good of a deal to pass up.

This is by far the best deal going for hardware that will be delivered immediately.
philipma1957
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April 24, 2014, 09:21:26 PM
 #4688


Not quite. You should include the cost of a power supply. And since April is nearly over, you don't get a full month at the low difficulty in your calculation. Look at this:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/379dc97925

Although tradeblock is too pessimistic on difficulty increases a few months out. So yes, a new S1 might break even.

yes but if you have a PSU laying round doing nothing anyway it will ROI. what amazes me is that every other miner that I know costs a lot more per GH than the S1 and those sell. they sell because people buy in dollars and believe that the price of bitcoin will increase. it might not return the BTC you payed but if you pay $310 for the BTC needed and then buy, use it to mine, and then wait a few months, bitcoin could be worth $1000 per coin, so even if you only make 0.5BTC you would actually have $500 which is $190 profit.

Let's do some basic math here, guys.  While I understand the concept you are trying to describe, the logic is still wrong.

If you take the cash, buy the miner and make .5BTC, you have lost the money you would have made by simply holding the bitcoins.  Regardless of the current price of BTC, 0.5BTC will always be less than 0.63BTC.  All day, every day.  Mining will only turn a profit if it creates more BTC than the BTC you spent for the gear, regardless of the price of BTC.  Dig it?

wrong info for anyone in the usa. ----- well I should say  not complete info

holding coins are passive income mining is active income.  completely different tax laws.  I do not need any passive income .  I need active income ie mining or even selling the gear on  ebay at a profit .

All buy and hold advice or mine instead advice needs to now say if you are subject to USA tax law buy and hold  creates different tax consequences then  mine and sell

My advice to buy this at .63 btc should also say if you mine the USA tax law is different then if you  buy and hold.

Now this is a interesting thought exercise!  Shall we break down the math even further for individuals in the US?  I would be interested in how those numbers look side by side.  What does the difference look like for purchased equipment deprecation, taxes leveraged against generated coins with the device, power expenses, etc?  I suppose we're thread-jacking at this point, but I would be happy to discuss the nitty-gritty more!

USA based like me have some definite guidelines to follow.

 Mining now has a lot more risks then many USA miners may know.

for instance I pd 2860usd for a hosted miner here.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576844.msg6296463#msg6296463

why ? it is gray as to passive or active income.

I paid for 9 antminer s-1 why they are all going to mine or be sold on ebay  they are all active income

I paid for 30 gridseed 5 chip units and they mine I will sell them later---- all active income.

lastly I hold about 8 coins  why they are passive investment income.



I want a mix of all 3   some that I can kind of say was investment or active some that is passive and some that is really active.

Here is one example of a real problem a miner has.  He purchased a KNC jupiter back in the day and grabbed a lot of coin at 1000 usd.  he said I am holding them they will go to 2000 usd.   well guess what those coins are now down to 500 (give or take a few bucks)  so he now has to based his taxex for 2013 on the 1000 price when they mined..  not the 500 dollar price they are.  But this is a thread jack.

I grabbed 2 s-1's today at .63 each and was happy to get that price.

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 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
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philipma1957
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April 24, 2014, 09:22:14 PM
 #4689

I  can't believe some people are actually arguing that a S1 for .63 BTC is not a great deal. Where else are you going to be able to get 1TH of mining power delivered within a week for 3.15 BTC (plus the cost of power supplies)?

I hadn't planned on buying anymore S1s, but the latest price drop was too good of a deal to pass up.

This is by far the best deal going for hardware that will be delivered immediately.

 I agree with you and I have the psu's on hand.

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.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
kendog77
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April 24, 2014, 09:25:28 PM
 #4690

I  can't believe some people are actually arguing that a S1 for .63 BTC is not a great deal. Where else are you going to be able to get 1TH of mining power delivered within a week for 3.15 BTC (plus the cost of power supplies)?

I hadn't planned on buying anymore S1s, but the latest price drop was too good of a deal to pass up.

This is by far the best deal going for hardware that will be delivered immediately.

 I agree with you and I have the psu's on hand.

I realize that Bitmain maybe clearing out old S1 stock to make room for S2s, but this is still a screaming buy IMHO assuming one has the capacity to deal with the power requirements.
judypug1956
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April 24, 2014, 10:11:38 PM
 #4691

I  can't believe some people are actually arguing that a S1 for .63 BTC is not a great deal. Where else are you going to be able to get 1TH of mining power delivered within a week for 3.15 BTC (plus the cost of power supplies)?

I hadn't planned on buying anymore S1s, but the latest price drop was too good of a deal to pass up.

This is by far the best deal going for hardware that will be delivered immediately.

 I agree with you and I have the psu's on hand.

I realize that Bitmain maybe clearing out old S1 stock to make room for S2s, but this is still a screaming buy IMHO assuming one has the capacity to deal with the power requirements.

yeah if you have psu's around this is  a good deal.  even if you have 2 or 3 in house you could list them on ebay at blowout price say 480 and make a quick buck that way.

1956jUdYPFwiBSzt9AECdWj3KE4WV7taiM I can't do 1957philma.. for btc address the i are not allowed This is a secondary account for Philipma1957, don't do business with this account deal with philipma1957
aztecminer
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April 24, 2014, 10:57:37 PM
 #4692


Not quite. You should include the cost of a power supply. And since April is nearly over, you don't get a full month at the low difficulty in your calculation. Look at this:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/379dc97925

Although tradeblock is too pessimistic on difficulty increases a few months out. So yes, a new S1 might break even.

yes but if you have a PSU laying round doing nothing anyway it will ROI. what amazes me is that every other miner that I know costs a lot more per GH than the S1 and those sell. they sell because people buy in dollars and believe that the price of bitcoin will increase. it might not return the BTC you payed but if you pay $310 for the BTC needed and then buy, use it to mine, and then wait a few months, bitcoin could be worth $1000 per coin, so even if you only make 0.5BTC you would actually have $500 which is $190 profit.




Let's do some basic math here, guys.  While I understand the concept you are trying to describe, the logic is still wrong.

If you take the cash, buy the miner and make .5BTC, you have lost the money you would have made by simply holding the bitcoins.  Regardless of the current price of BTC, 0.5BTC will always be less than 0.63BTC.  All day, every day.  Mining will only turn a profit if it creates more BTC than the BTC you spent for the gear, regardless of the price of BTC.  Dig it?



well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.
philipma1957
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April 24, 2014, 11:13:15 PM
 #4693


Not quite. You should include the cost of a power supply. And since April is nearly over, you don't get a full month at the low difficulty in your calculation. Look at this:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/379dc97925

Although tradeblock is too pessimistic on difficulty increases a few months out. So yes, a new S1 might break even.

yes but if you have a PSU laying round doing nothing anyway it will ROI. what amazes me is that every other miner that I know costs a lot more per GH than the S1 and those sell. they sell because people buy in dollars and believe that the price of bitcoin will increase. it might not return the BTC you payed but if you pay $310 for the BTC needed and then buy, use it to mine, and then wait a few months, bitcoin could be worth $1000 per coin, so even if you only make 0.5BTC you would actually have $500 which is $190 profit.




Let's do some basic math here, guys.  While I understand the concept you are trying to describe, the logic is still wrong.

If you take the cash, buy the miner and make .5BTC, you have lost the money you would have made by simply holding the bitcoins.  Regardless of the current price of BTC, 0.5BTC will always be less than 0.63BTC.  All day, every day.  Mining will only turn a profit if it creates more BTC than the BTC you spent for the gear, regardless of the price of BTC.  Dig it?



well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.
that is part of the solution. always cash in mined coins the day you mine them (well fast under a week).

  if you want to hold coins always buy them. keep them separate from mined coins.

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.
 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
.
.. PLAY NOW ..
TracerX
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April 24, 2014, 11:32:25 PM
Last edit: April 25, 2014, 12:04:08 AM by TracerX
 #4694

well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.

Nope, doesn't work that way.  If you buy BTC with fiat and you end up mining less BTC than the BTC you spent on the hardware, regardless of what fiat you paid, you've netted a loss.  The conversion from fiat to BTC doesn't matter, because you paid in BTC.  Let's do some math (complicated tax issues out of the picture).

We're going to simplify the numbers, so it's easy to digest:

Scenario A: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then immediately purchase a miner that costs 1BTC.  It's super-fast!  During the lifetime of the device (which we'll say is the time that it makes more in BTC than it costs to feed it electricity) it produces 0.93BTC before you're mining at a loss.  When you go to the exchange, BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 0.93BTC for $186USD.  This appears to be making a profit, until you get to...

Scenario B: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then hodl it.  When you go to the exchange (at the same time as you would in the first scenario) BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 1BTC for $200USD.  You did no mining, and doubled your money.

In the first scenario, you lost BTC, period.  Regardless of what the fiat rate is, you will always get less exchanged fiat if your miner cost more than it made versus just holding the BTC.  There's no getting around that, you lost BTC.  Profitability in mining should always be calculated in BTC if you paid for the gear in BTC.

Now, the inverse is true if you paid in fiat, and I know that sounds crazy!  If you buy a $100 dollar miner in fiat, and it generates BTC that you later sell for more than $100 dollars, you've made a profit.  It works this way because the "value" of the dollar is (mostly) fixed, where as the value of BTC is not.  If you pay in BTC, you need to make your profit estimates on BTC.  If you paid in fiat, you should be using fiat to base your profit estimates.

That said, I enjoy mining and I've been lucky enough to turn a profit (in BTC!) on my mining endeavors so far--this isn't me shooting down mining by any means, I just know the math is confusing and want to lend a hand.  I myself had to sit in a recliner and sip scotch while I worked it out! Everyone should give it a go, as it's an excellent mental exercise.
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April 24, 2014, 11:39:58 PM
 #4695

well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.

Nope, doesn't work that way.  If you buy BTC with fiat and you end up mining less BTC than the BTC you spent on the hardware, regardless of what fiat you paid, you've netted a loss.  The conversion from fiat to BTC doesn't matter, because you paid in BTC.  Let's do some math (complicated tax issues out of the picture).

We're going to simplify the numbers, so it's easy to digest:

Scenario A: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then immediately purchase a miner that costs 1BTC.  It's super-fast!  During the lifetime of the device (which we'll say is the time that it makes more in BTC than it costs to feed it electricity) it produces 0.93BTC before you're mining at a loss.  When you go to the exchange, BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 0.93BTC for $186USD.  This appears to be a profit gain, until you get to...

Scenario B: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then hodl it.  When you go to the exchange (at the same time as you would in the first scenario) BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 1BTC for $200USD.  You did no mining, and doubled your money.

In the first scenario, you lost BTC, period.  Regardless of what the fiat rate is, you will always get less exchanged fiat if your miner cost more than it made versus just holding the BTC.  There's no getting around that, you lost BTC.  Profitability in mining should always be calculated in BTC if you paid for the gear in BTC.

Now, the inverse is true if you paid in fiat, and I know that sounds crazy!  If you buy a $100 dollar miner in fiat, and it generates BTC that you later sell for more than $100 dollars, you've made a profit.  It works this way because the "value" of the dollar is (mostly) fixed, where as the value of BTC is not.  If you pay in BTC, you need to make your profit estimates on BTC.  If you paid in fiat, you should be using fiat to base your profit estimates.

That said, I enjoy mining and I've been lucky enough to turn a profit (in BTC!) on my mining endeavors so far--this isn't me shooting down mining by any means, I just know the math is confusing and want to lend a hand.  I myself had to sit in a recliner and sip scotch while I worked it out!  Everyone should give it a go, as it's an excellent mental exercise.


BTC - 1D7g5395bs7idApTx1KTXrfDW7JUgzx6Z5
LTC - LVFukQnCWUimBxZuXKqTVKy1L2Jb8kZasL
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April 25, 2014, 01:51:21 AM
 #4696

Well I bit for 2 more S1 units. I have a redhash Avalon gen 1 clone at 105 Gh using 900watts and a some BFL units 75 gh using 450watts that in 1-2 months time will consume more in electricity costs than they generate if BTC remains at $500. At this new low price I felt the S1 will completely sell out and so grabbed some while I could.

Looking forward to turning off the old hardware as they have not been 100% stable like the S1s. The S1s never go down. Just the best hardware I have experienced.
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April 25, 2014, 02:25:35 AM
 #4697

well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.

Nope, doesn't work that way.  If you buy BTC with fiat and you end up mining less BTC than the BTC you spent on the hardware, regardless of what fiat you paid, you've netted a loss.  The conversion from fiat to BTC doesn't matter, because you paid in BTC.  Let's do some math (complicated tax issues out of the picture).

We're going to simplify the numbers, so it's easy to digest:

Scenario A: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then immediately purchase a miner that costs 1BTC.  It's super-fast!  During the lifetime of the device (which we'll say is the time that it makes more in BTC than it costs to feed it electricity) it produces 0.93BTC before you're mining at a loss.  When you go to the exchange, BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 0.93BTC for $186USD.  This appears to be making a profit, until you get to...

Scenario B: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then hodl it.  When you go to the exchange (at the same time as you would in the first scenario) BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 1BTC for $200USD.  You did no mining, and doubled your money.

In the first scenario, you lost BTC, period.  Regardless of what the fiat rate is, you will always get less exchanged fiat if your miner cost more than it made versus just holding the BTC.  There's no getting around that, you lost BTC.  Profitability in mining should always be calculated in BTC if you paid for the gear in BTC.

Now, the inverse is true if you paid in fiat, and I know that sounds crazy!  If you buy a $100 dollar miner in fiat, and it generates BTC that you later sell for more than $100 dollars, you've made a profit.  It works this way because the "value" of the dollar is (mostly) fixed, where as the value of BTC is not.  If you pay in BTC, you need to make your profit estimates on BTC.  If you paid in fiat, you should be using fiat to base your profit estimates.

That said, I enjoy mining and I've been lucky enough to turn a profit (in BTC!) on my mining endeavors so far--this isn't me shooting down mining by any means, I just know the math is confusing and want to lend a hand.  I myself had to sit in a recliner and sip scotch while I worked it out! Everyone should give it a go, as it's an excellent mental exercise.

That is exactly RIGHT...!

If you pay for miner(s) in BTC...count your return in BTC...
If you pay for your miner(s) in FIAT...count your return in FIAT...

Don't get confused by speculation in exchnge's rates...
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April 25, 2014, 02:37:07 AM
 #4698

well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.

Nope, doesn't work that way.  If you buy BTC with fiat and you end up mining less BTC than the BTC you spent on the hardware, regardless of what fiat you paid, you've netted a loss.  The conversion from fiat to BTC doesn't matter, because you paid in BTC.  Let's do some math (complicated tax issues out of the picture).

We're going to simplify the numbers, so it's easy to digest:

Scenario A: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then immediately purchase a miner that costs 1BTC.  It's super-fast!  During the lifetime of the device (which we'll say is the time that it makes more in BTC than it costs to feed it electricity) it produces 0.93BTC before you're mining at a loss.  When you go to the exchange, BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 0.93BTC for $186USD.  This appears to be making a profit, until you get to...

Scenario B: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then hodl it.  When you go to the exchange (at the same time as you would in the first scenario) BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 1BTC for $200USD.  You did no mining, and doubled your money.

In the first scenario, you lost BTC, period.  Regardless of what the fiat rate is, you will always get less exchanged fiat if your miner cost more than it made versus just holding the BTC.  There's no getting around that, you lost BTC.  Profitability in mining should always be calculated in BTC if you paid for the gear in BTC.

Now, the inverse is true if you paid in fiat, and I know that sounds crazy!  If you buy a $100 dollar miner in fiat, and it generates BTC that you later sell for more than $100 dollars, you've made a profit.  It works this way because the "value" of the dollar is (mostly) fixed, where as the value of BTC is not.  If you pay in BTC, you need to make your profit estimates on BTC.  If you paid in fiat, you should be using fiat to base your profit estimates.

That said, I enjoy mining and I've been lucky enough to turn a profit (in BTC!) on my mining endeavors so far--this isn't me shooting down mining by any means, I just know the math is confusing and want to lend a hand.  I myself had to sit in a recliner and sip scotch while I worked it out! Everyone should give it a go, as it's an excellent mental exercise.

That is exactly RIGHT...!

If you pay for miner(s) in BTC...count your return in BTC...
If you pay for your miner(s) in FIAT...count your return in FIAT...

Don't get confused by speculation in exchnge's rates...

The FIAT or BTC discussion is completely MOOT with regards to purchasing Bitmain gear as they only accept BTC as payment. If you dont have BTC than you will need to purchase with FIAT or barter or steal but who the hell knows.
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April 25, 2014, 02:41:36 AM
 #4699

New price for AntMiner S1: 0.818 0.63 btc each one, shipping cost included.

whoever has bought S1 recently will get coupons, which are expected to reach user accounts on Apr 25th and Apr 26th.

Happy Mining  Wink

Cannot Wait

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April 25, 2014, 02:43:19 AM
 #4700

It's a good price....

Wish I had more power...  Wink

No its not good price. Read previous posts.Why they dropped price so hard from 0.881 to this 0.63?
S1 areWERE massive overpriced.
I will wait moment or so to see is will get coupons. I made order for 5 units recently so will see how bitmain will treat me after sendin overcklocked units.

They reading forum and they can see people are pissed of about how they doing business this days.

FTFY.  The new price is entirely reasonable, particularly for anyone who pays <$0.15/kwh and has the extra space and power.  (Believing that the future price of BTC will rise also makes the calculations look a bit better).

I would think that bitmain would be breaking even when they hit 0.5BTC or ~$250.   This considers the chips to  cost about $1 each ($64), 8 regulators that are about $4 each ($32), shipping that costs about $120, and probably $10 cost for the heatsinks.    This is about $230 and does not even include the control board (~$10?), PCB (~$10/ea), and assembly.   

My money says that this might be nearly all the S1 units they have in stock before the S2 (or S3?) becomes the necessary next step.  At 0.63 and the current BTC price, they are only looking at ~$50 profit per unit I would assume (which is still pretty good for the quantity they sell)

The S2 price will hopefully make a drastic drop soon and be a bit more competitive at <5BTC

Yes 2 day shipping is a HUGE cost when selling to retail.

A better way is to send pallets to distributors weeks ahead of time then have the distributors send from within local.  Of course im sure they want a discount
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