[Antminer S1 Sales open] Price changes daily, now 0.414 BTC for 180GH/s

[TracerX]

The FIAT or BTC discussion is completely MOOT with regards to purchasing Bitmain gear as they only accept BTC as payment. If you dont have BTC than you will need to purchase with FIAT or barter or steal but who the hell knows.

Agreed, I jacked the shit out of this thread, but it seemed a reasonable discussion re: price drop.  In the case of BITMAIN gear (which is currently the best, IMHO) everyone should be doing the math with BTC, never fiat.

Cheers.

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[Swimmer63]

Well I have a few 1300W and a few smaller PSU's collecting dust.  I thought I had ordered my last S1 but at this price it makes sense(for me).

[wpgdeez]

Some deals are just to good to pass up, have another 5 coming thinking I should have ordered 10!

[powersup]

cant login to bitmain website 

[mstrongbow]

How soon do these units usually arrive to the US after placing an order?
I just might make my next purchases from BitmainTech but receiving the equipment in a timely manner is more important than saving a few $$.

Thanks!

[ChuckBuck]

How soon do these units usually arrive to the US after placing an order?
I just might make my next purchases from BitmainTech but receiving the equipment in a timely manner is more important than saving a few $$.

Thanks!

Usually 3-5 business days.  In other words, super fast!   

[Swimmer63]

How soon do these units usually arrive to the US after placing an order?
I just might make my next purchases from BitmainTech but receiving the equipment in a timely manner is more important than saving a few $$.

Thanks!

They always ship 2 Day International. Which is really 3 days, but it's fast as hell for China. The question is when will they have it to ship. Their site says "will ship in 48 hours or less."  So max is 5 days.

[digitizing]

where's the coupon ?
anyone receive coupon today ?

bitmain site down ?
everyone try to buy S1 while btc low ?

[jtan1ph]

no coupon for me yet

[brad1121]

wishing for a coupon ><

[cevad]

Hoping I am included in the coupons for recent purchase - I purchased a week ago

[TrytoHex]

Bought one one monday, that counts as recent I hope... Haven't recieved anything yet.

[BITMAIN]

New price for AntMiner S1: 0.63 0.619 btc each one, shipping cost included.

[philipma1957]

New price for AntMiner S1: 0.63 0.619 btc each one, shipping cost included.

damn how long can you go?   (not complaining just impressed)

[sconklin321]

well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.

Nope, doesn't work that way.  If you buy BTC with fiat and you end up mining less BTC than the BTC you spent on the hardware, regardless of what fiat you paid, you've netted a loss.  The conversion from fiat to BTC doesn't matter, because you paid in BTC.  Let's do some math (complicated tax issues out of the picture).

We're going to simplify the numbers, so it's easy to digest:

Scenario A: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then immediately purchase a miner that costs 1BTC.  It's super-fast!  During the lifetime of the device (which we'll say is the time that it makes more in BTC than it costs to feed it electricity) it produces 0.93BTC before you're mining at a loss.  When you go to the exchange, BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 0.93BTC for $186USD.  This appears to be making a profit, until you get to...

Scenario B: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then hodl it.  When you go to the exchange (at the same time as you would in the first scenario) BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 1BTC for $200USD.  You did no mining, and doubled your money.

In the first scenario, you lost BTC, period.  Regardless of what the fiat rate is, you will always get less exchanged fiat if your miner cost more than it made versus just holding the BTC.  There's no getting around that, you lost BTC.  Profitability in mining should always be calculated in BTC if you paid for the gear in BTC.

Now, the inverse is true if you paid in fiat, and I know that sounds crazy!  If you buy a $100 dollar miner in fiat, and it generates BTC that you later sell for more than $100 dollars, you've made a profit.  It works this way because the "value" of the dollar is (mostly) fixed, where as the value of BTC is not.  If you pay in BTC, you need to make your profit estimates on BTC.  If you paid in fiat, you should be using fiat to base your profit estimates.

That said, I enjoy mining and I've been lucky enough to turn a profit (in BTC!) on my mining endeavors so far--this isn't me shooting down mining by any means, I just know the math is confusing and want to lend a hand.  I myself had to sit in a recliner and sip scotch while I worked it out! Everyone should give it a go, as it's an excellent mental exercise.

That is exactly RIGHT...!

If you pay for miner(s) in BTC...count your return in BTC...
If you pay for your miner(s) in FIAT...count your return in FIAT...

Don't get confused by speculation in exchnge's rates...

This math is still faulty, because you're forgetting that you can still sell your machine on ebay for $50 to $75, at which point you will make more money than the straight exchange of BTC mined.  Always remember, just because it's not profitable to mine, doesn't mean someone won't buy it from you who doesn't know that on ebay.

[cliffhanger35]

Wow another price drop. Cool.

Let's see...I can bring 3 ants to my mothers, around 6 to my grandparents and a couple at a friend. Being energy capped sux. 

[mez]

particularly for anyone who pays <$0.15/kwh and has the extra space and power.  (Believing that the future price of BTC will rise also makes the calculations look a bit better).

How expensive is power for you guys o.O i am at $0,07/kwh on a commercial plan and feel that is high.

i have free power, till end of 2016 for sure =D
so $0.0000/kwh

[philipma1957]

well then don't use your mined coins to buy new hardware with ?? use fiat to buy new coins and use those coins as a vehicle to pay for ur new hardware. problem solved.

Nope, doesn't work that way.  If you buy BTC with fiat and you end up mining less BTC than the BTC you spent on the hardware, regardless of what fiat you paid, you've netted a loss.  The conversion from fiat to BTC doesn't matter, because you paid in BTC.  Let's do some math (complicated tax issues out of the picture).

We're going to simplify the numbers, so it's easy to digest:

Scenario A: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then immediately purchase a miner that costs 1BTC.  It's super-fast!  During the lifetime of the device (which we'll say is the time that it makes more in BTC than it costs to feed it electricity) it produces 0.93BTC before you're mining at a loss.  When you go to the exchange, BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 0.93BTC for $186USD.  This appears to be making a profit, until you get to...

Scenario B: You purchase 1BTC for the exchange price of $100USD, then hodl it.  When you go to the exchange (at the same time as you would in the first scenario) BTC has doubled in price to $200USD.  You exchange your 1BTC for $200USD.  You did no mining, and doubled your money.

In the first scenario, you lost BTC, period.  Regardless of what the fiat rate is, you will always get less exchanged fiat if your miner cost more than it made versus just holding the BTC.  There's no getting around that, you lost BTC.  Profitability in mining should always be calculated in BTC if you paid for the gear in BTC.

Now, the inverse is true if you paid in fiat, and I know that sounds crazy!  If you buy a $100 dollar miner in fiat, and it generates BTC that you later sell for more than $100 dollars, you've made a profit.  It works this way because the "value" of the dollar is (mostly) fixed, where as the value of BTC is not.  If you pay in BTC, you need to make your profit estimates on BTC.  If you paid in fiat, you should be using fiat to base your profit estimates.

That said, I enjoy mining and I've been lucky enough to turn a profit (in BTC!) on my mining endeavors so far--this isn't me shooting down mining by any means, I just know the math is confusing and want to lend a hand.  I myself had to sit in a recliner and sip scotch while I worked it out! Everyone should give it a go, as it's an excellent mental exercise.

That is exactly RIGHT...!

If you pay for miner(s) in BTC...count your return in BTC...
If you pay for your miner(s) in FIAT...count your return in FIAT...

Don't get confused by speculation in exchnge's rates...

This math is still faulty, because you're forgetting that you can still sell your machine on ebay for $50 to $75, at which point you will make more money than the straight exchange of BTC mined.  Always remember, just because it's not profitable to mine, doesn't mean someone won't buy it from you who doesn't know that on ebay.

And he wants to leave out taxation law to make it true.

  As a USA citizen mining is like self employment i.e. a small business schedule c
Buy and hold is passive investment income i.e. schedule d

these are hugely different .
Mining can increase your social security retirement check. >>  you pay self-employment tax on any net profit over 400 usd and that makes your social security check bigger when you retire.

Buy and hold does not. >>>>>>> If I go to coin base today and buy 2 coins at 450 usd each I need do nothing until I sell them. i.e. I can hold them 4 years then sell and report the gain.

a in house  mining profit has to be taxed  way differently then a buy and hold.

So each has a different set of tax rules.  If you are 57 like I am  and you earn 20k a year mining net profit.  (in fiat as the USA government does not give a shit about the coins just the fiat price)

you need to pay about 15% in self employment tax (think of it a social security tax)  at 65-68 you retire and go to collect social security tax.  that money paid in for the mining profit will make your social security check much larger.

 Sorry you need to figure this in  whenever you discuss mining vs buy and hold.    So if you are USA and over 55 mining at a fiat profit has a real possibility of boosting your social security check.

If you are under 55 it will take longer to collect  and mining is a bit less attractive then buy and hold.  I blend all methods.  If I were 30. I would open a coin base account  and buy 100usd a week in coin.  Never cash for 5 years in a row.  Then after 5 years I would decide what to do.

but this is really threadjacking.


I am debating if I want another 1 or 2 s-1's

[jimmyl]

Price down again!

[s1lverbox]

Price down again!

Again?
Still overpriced.

Wait few more days.

Bitmain no coupons? I though by ordering 5 units -AGAIN , im so kind returning customer...Obviously not.

Does anyone  have coupons from bitmain?