Bitcoin Forum
November 21, 2018, 12:51:38 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.17.0 [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 ... 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 [86] 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 ... 6728 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9394645 times)
TanteStefana
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 100


The Future Of Work


View Profile
February 12, 2014, 07:45:01 PM
 #1701

I would think that would cost a fortune.  I think it's more likely that someone or several people have figured out the gpu miner and are keeping it to themselves. 

█ ANN THREAD █
﹝Whitepaper﹞
【BLACKBOX OS】
The Future of Work. Decentralized.
TELEGRAM﹞﹝FACEBOOK
TWITTERYOUTUBE
1542761498
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1542761498

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1542761498
Reply with quote  #2

1542761498
Report to moderator
1542761498
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1542761498

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1542761498
Reply with quote  #2

1542761498
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
Queeq
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 426
Merit: 250



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 08:19:25 PM
 #1702

Argh, crap! Better make it unprofitable to mine on GPUs! Heed my call!

Python backtesting and bot script at Github
Development halted due to other priorities.
AlexGR
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1568
Merit: 1026



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 09:03:50 PM
 #1703

I really don't get the GPU hatred and the "for the few" argument. Most GPUs are cheaper than high-end i5/i7 etc (not to mention xeons) and used cards like 5850s/6870s with decent hashrates, can be found for 70-90 euros or near the 100 dollar mark. Their only problem is their power consumption and heat dissipation.

ASICs are really for the few (and Quantum Computers for even fewer). GPUs and CPUs, well, these are not. And it's better if everyone can have access to a gpu miner than someone mining selfishly with it.

As for the profitability, it will all depend on how accelerated it all becomes and whether the GPU is better suited for doing other coins, like scrypt. It's also a question of watts consumed per khash. If a cpu can consume, say, 30w and give 20% of what a 300w GPU can give, then the CPU is more power efficient and is well in the game with whatever hashrate it produces.

TanteStefana
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 100


The Future Of Work


View Profile
February 12, 2014, 09:53:42 PM
 #1704

Yah, I'm just bummed because if this is so, they're not sharing Sad  But why should they?

█ ANN THREAD █
﹝Whitepaper﹞
【BLACKBOX OS】
The Future of Work. Decentralized.
TELEGRAM﹞﹝FACEBOOK
TWITTERYOUTUBE
Queeq
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 426
Merit: 250



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:00:48 PM
 #1705

As I said, entry level for efficient GPU mining is much higher than for CPU. It's possible to rent a couple of servers for CPU mining at affordable price or simply use available computers. No need to buy it all. Initial cost of GPU farm is pretty large (and yes, it includes CPU as well) and it must be placed somewhere. I wouldn't count power as important parameter as some regions have pretty low prices.

Also, as discussed previously, we are interested in mining power to be more distributed while with GPUs it gets more concentrated. I believe this would lead to price instability which, in its turn, suppresses effective use of the coin. Anyone, except speculators, wants this? The more stable the price, the more rapid adoption of the coin would be.

That is why I believe that it is essential to keep it CPU only and prevent GPU mining as much as possible.

Python backtesting and bot script at Github
Development halted due to other priorities.
VanBreuk
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 460
Merit: 250



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:15:15 PM
 #1706

That is why I believe that it is essential to keep it CPU only and prevent GPU mining as much as possible.

+100

Don't lose this niche. The type of distribution it encourages also fits the concept behind DRK much more nicely.
Probleminfected
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 89
Merit: 100


View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:20:30 PM
 #1707

That is why I believe that it is essential to keep it CPU only and prevent GPU mining as much as possible.

+100

Don't lose this niche. The type of distribution it encourages also fits the concept behind DRK much more nicely.

Yes, but we must have the technology to strike back on someone or group that is using a gpu based miner.  I'm not saying release the miner, but keep it stock piled.

WMD
AlexGR
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1568
Merit: 1026



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:21:29 PM
 #1708

As I said, entry level for efficient GPU mining is much higher than for CPU. It's possible to rent a couple of servers for CPU mining at affordable price or simply use available computers. No need to buy it all. Initial cost of GPU farm is pretty large (and yes, it includes CPU as well) and it must be placed somewhere. I wouldn't count power as important parameter as some regions have pretty low prices.

Yeah, at that level ok. These are larger scale operations that not many people are involved in. For the individual with his one or two PCs its a different matter altogether.

Quote
Also, as discussed previously, we are interested in mining power to be more distributed while with GPUs it gets more concentrated. I believe this would lead to price instability which, in its turn, suppresses effective use of the coin. Anyone, except speculators, wants this? The more stable the price, the more rapid adoption of the coin would be.

That is why I believe that it is essential to keep it CPU only and prevent GPU mining as much as possible.

I am not certain of the GPU-concentration dynamic, except through aggregated individual power in multipools. GPU farms are difficult to build and manage, so GPU power is mostly decentralized to simple users who mine with a couple of cards. I believe GPU concentration will never reach the same level as CPU concentration (data centers, etc).

But even so the whole issue of the developers deciding cpu or gpu is kind of irrelevant as it's not really their choice. It's more about the choice of certain programmers who will or won't make a gpu-implementation and whether they will share this or not.

A coin creator can, at most, make the life difficult for a gpu chip, asic-designer or quantum-computer designer by selecting (during the coin creation) hashes which are hard to speed up in the aforementioned hardware. But now we are past the coin creation stage, so...
Queeq
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 426
Merit: 250



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:22:34 PM
 #1709


Yes, but we must have the technology to strike back on someone or group that is using a gpu based miner.  I'm not saying release the miner, but keep it stock piled.

WMD

I think this is an algorithmic task. Let the developers say their word.

Python backtesting and bot script at Github
Development halted due to other priorities.
HammerHedd
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 100


View Profile WWW
February 12, 2014, 10:27:01 PM
 #1710

I really don't get the GPU hatred and the "for the few" argument. Most GPUs are cheaper than high-end i5/i7 etc (not to mention xeons) and used cards like 5850s/6870s with decent hashrates, can be found for 70-90 euros or near the 100 dollar mark. Their only problem is their power consumption and heat dissipation.

ASICs are really for the few (and Quantum Computers for even fewer). GPUs and CPUs, well, these are not. And it's better if everyone can have access to a gpu miner than someone mining selfishly with it.

As for the profitability, it will all depend on how accelerated it all becomes and whether the GPU is better suited for doing other coins, like scrypt. It's also a question of watts consumed per khash. If a cpu can consume, say, 30w and give 20% of what a 300w GPU can give, then the CPU is more power efficient and is well in the game with whatever hashrate it produces.



Also, profitability would depend on initial costs - the price of the CPU and the other required equipment (specific motherboard, etc).

One way to move "ASIC-proof" a currency might also be to link it's hashing to a task that people already perform. Imagine that you somehow increased your hash value by playing Angry Birds... Or serving as an IRC hub and your hash value was linked to your user count.

Obviously, these are conceptual, not actual, examples Smiley

DRK: XepkHLT2MYTXSFDc2muiGeA9eRzG6ytpSy       P2Pool: stratum+tcp://darkcoin.kicks-ass.net:7903
BTC: 1LVE3pFpAhSrHbiK5hAUWDeVrB5UrPXRkJ                    http://darkcoin.kicks-ass.net
Queeq
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 426
Merit: 250



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:31:33 PM
 #1711

A coin creator can, at most, make the life difficult for a gpu chip, asic-designer or quantum-computer designer by selecting (during the coin creation) hashes which are hard to speed up in the aforementioned hardware. But now we are past the coin creation stage, so...

There may be some tiny specific function, that is difficult to calculate on GPU but is not a problem for CPU.

Surely developers know better what they are doing.

Python backtesting and bot script at Github
Development halted due to other priorities.
CHAOSiTEC
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330
Merit: 1002


View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:34:46 PM
 #1712

The move to GPU is a natural progression, but, we need one that is accessable to everyone, just to level the playing field, i dont have any gpus that would be do able to use, but this is the path that lies ahead for darkcoin.





on another node,

im not able to update and help out as i usually do, but will try to pop in once in a while, i have 2 tasks that are the most important right now, work, and lotterymining





node-vps.com - Tron / Masternode hosting services
blaaaaacksuit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 250

Who cares?


View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:37:55 PM
 #1713


Yes, but we must have the technology to strike back on someone or group that is using a gpu based miner.  I'm not saying release the miner, but keep it stock piled.

WMD

I think this is an algorithmic task. Let the developers say their word.

They already have, and they want to open the door to GPU miners, because 90 percent of the crypto miners use GPUs.  If they want this coin to last more than a few weeks this needs to be done. 
AlexGR
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1568
Merit: 1026



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:42:20 PM
 #1714

Quote
Also, profitability would depend on initial costs - the price of the CPU and the other required equipment (specific motherboard, etc).

Yep..

Quote
One way to move "ASIC-proof" a currency might also be to link it's hashing to a task that people already perform. Imagine that you somehow increased your hash value by playing Angry Birds... Or serving as an IRC hub and your hash value was linked to your user count.

Obviously, these are conceptual, not actual, examples Smiley

Personally I don't believe in the concept of ASIC-proof. Commercial ASICs maybe, but the real issue is not a commercial designer (as far as I'm concerned) but NSA. A commercial designer has a few million dollars worth of investment capacity with doubtful rewards so miners can be "ok" knowing that they won't deal with an ASIC implementation anytime soon. But an NSA contractor can get billions so that the NSA can stay ahead of the game. USA has a full-spectrum dominance strategy and that means no cost is too big in order to be ahead of the game.

If I were the NSA I would order an ASIC platform with modular design that you can fit like 20 different chips on it for every possible hash. So if a coin gets generated that has a combination of hashA, hashB...hashZ, then I place the corresponding asic-coprocessors on the modular board and I've just got myself an ASIC-raper for that coin.

Everything is balanced in the end of the day. Coins like bitcoin which have multiple asics mining for it by individuals are more safe from a 51% NSA control because they have the same tools at their disposal to counter it, but mining is virtually dead for cpu/gpu.

Scrypts may be GPU only for the time being but if NSA tomorrow reveals an ASIC+ram combo that rapes scrypt, then scrypt will be in trouble until the ordinary miners can get their hands on similar equipment.

Complicated coins with like 10 hashes are much more mining-resistant for commercial asic solutions but at the same time gives the "agencies" a far larger headstart due to their budget to create custom implementations that the private sector won't have for years.
Queeq
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 426
Merit: 250



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:45:49 PM
 #1715

They already have, and they want to open the door to GPU miners, because 90 percent of the crypto miners use GPUs.  If they want this coin to last more than a few weeks this needs to be done.  
Hm... I don't see the connection between mining on GPU and coin fading away. What keeps coin running is its features, not how it's mined. Price stability is one of them. Look at the news on how most officials react on Bitcoin's pumps and dumps: "don't use it, it's not safe and may fall any time". Unless we have relatively stable exchange rate (or, in other words, buying ability not to link it to fiat), coin is mostly speculative thing and does not embrace the notion of alternative currency.

Python backtesting and bot script at Github
Development halted due to other priorities.
SeriousCoins14
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 154
Merit: 100

Coinoholic


View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:52:21 PM
 #1716

Hey eduffield (sorry if I'm spelling wrong going off memory). I'm tinkering with your sg miner trying to see if I can contribute to this. I'm away from home and thus toying around on a windows machine. I made a few changes but I can't compile it, I'm getting undefined reference to "sleep" errors. If memory serves me right you can't use sleep() in windows. It happens trying to compile the original files you posted. Have you attempted to build it in windows?

Do you know a workaround for this?

edit: compiling in MinGW, I'm not familiar with any others.

XBC BTUCL6SoNCMYmvmY7tJ33EdtdvyNL4wdhr
kaene
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 798
Merit: 1005


View Profile
February 12, 2014, 10:54:36 PM
 #1717


Yes, but we must have the technology to strike back on someone or group that is using a gpu based miner.  I'm not saying release the miner, but keep it stock piled.

WMD

I think this is an algorithmic task. Let the developers say their word.

They already have, and they want to open the door to GPU miners, because 90 percent of the crypto miners use GPUs.  If they want this coin to last more than a few weeks this needs to be done. 

Agreed. And this will be specially important once all the ASICs scrypt miners are available for cheap, what coins do you think people with GPU will mine then? DRK, MTC, PTS, MMC, VTC ... all these originally CPU coins now with GPU miner Smiley
blaaaaacksuit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 250

Who cares?


View Profile
February 12, 2014, 11:07:19 PM
 #1718

They already have, and they want to open the door to GPU miners, because 90 percent of the crypto miners use GPUs.  If they want this coin to last more than a few weeks this needs to be done.  
Hm... I don't see the connection between mining on GPU and coin fading away. What keeps coin running is its features, not how it's mined. Price stability is one of them. Look at the news on how most officials react on Bitcoin's pumps and dumps: "don't use it, it's not safe and may fall any time". Unless we have relatively stable exchange rate (or, in other words, buying ability not to link it to fiat), coin is mostly speculative thing and does not embrace the notion of alternative currency.

The fact that we're arguing about whether to keep it cpu or move to gpu implies that how its mined IS one of the coins features.  Price stability is not what keeps a coin running, price stability leads so a slow inevitable decline.  Why?  Because all crypto is nothing more than an instrument of speculation (at least for the time being), and 99 percent of the people involved are here for speculation although I'm sure many would not admit to it.  Coins that have no more waves to ride are slowly forgotten about.  
Queeq
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 426
Merit: 250



View Profile
February 12, 2014, 11:15:45 PM
 #1719

Coins that have no more waves to ride are slowly forgotten about.  

It would be forgotten by speculators, but warmly adopted as a mature currency. Sellers wouldn't need to instantly convert them in fiat anymore and they would be value by themselves.

Python backtesting and bot script at Github
Development halted due to other priorities.
blaaaaacksuit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 280
Merit: 250

Who cares?


View Profile
February 12, 2014, 11:24:41 PM
 #1720

Coins that have no more waves to ride are slowly forgotten about.  

It would be forgotten by speculators, but warmly adopted as a mature currency. Sellers wouldn't need to instantly convert them in fiat anymore and they would be value by themselves.

Adopted by who?  Nothing but speculators in this game my friend.  The only alt i've seen keeping steady is litecoin and that was cpu mined at first and then moved to gpu.  now the asics are coming out. 
Pages: « 1 ... 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 [86] 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 ... 6728 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!