[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[tungfa]

Payment Systems Team Suggests Bank Of Korea To Undertake Blockchain Research
 
http://www.econotimes.com/Bank-Of-Korea-Recommends-To-Undertake-Blockchain-Research%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0%C2%A0-154588

[Moloch]

Fair enough, no arguments here.

edit: just to be clear, I have agreed, calmed down and am participating in this argument fairly at this point. So why the hell does Tungfa feel the need to wake up and start this whole ride over? Just got kicked from Telegram after a 30 second chat with him and BolehVPN about how they dislike my methods.

People have a difficult time differentiating between constructive criticism and trolling...

When you tell them, there is a little thing that you wish was different... they hear, "Your child is ugly and retarded"

[tungfa]

edit: just to be clear, I have agreed, calmed down and am participating in this argument fairly at this point. So why the hell does Tungfa feel the need to wake up and start this whole ride over? Just got kicked from Telegram after a 30 second chat with him and BolehVPN about how they dislike my methods.

and 1 more time

if you do NOT know how to behave in public forums or chat rooms
you will get kicked ! it is that simple !
the chat has been around a long long time, me as an admin have to 'protect' the members (who started complaining)
thats how it works !

[FeelTheBern]

Fair enough, no arguments here.

edit: just to be clear, I have agreed, calmed down and am participating in this argument fairly at this point. So why the hell does Tungfa feel the need to wake up and start this whole ride over? Just got kicked from Telegram after a 30 second chat with him and BolehVPN about how they dislike my methods.

People have a difficult time differentiating between constructive criticism and trolling...

When you tell them, there is a little thing that you wish was different... they hear, "Your child is ugly and retarded"

I will gladly keep ongoing to help educate these poor souls.

To just ban/kick people without discussing it with the community first is a horrible move.

If Tungfa would like to try this again, since he obviously just woke up and missed the past 10 hours, fair enough, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But as it stands this is completely wrong in all sense of the word.

So Tungfa, what do you have to say for yourself? The rest of the community has been very polite today and I have returned the favor. Obviously you disagree with my opinions, fine. I don't mind that. I disagree with your methods just as you disagree with mine, so whats the deciding factor here?

[tungfa]

Fair enough, no arguments here.

edit: just to be clear, I have agreed, calmed down and am participating in this argument fairly at this point. So why the hell does Tungfa feel the need to wake up and start this whole ride over? Just got kicked from Telegram after a 30 second chat with him and BolehVPN about how they dislike my methods.

People have a difficult time differentiating between constructive criticism and trolling...

When you tell them, there is a little thing that you wish was different... they hear, "Your child is ugly and retarded"

I will gladly keep ongoing to help educate these poor souls.

To just ban/kick people without discussing it with the community first is a horrible move.

If Tungfa would like to try this again, since he obviously just woke up and missed the past 10 hours, fair enough, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But as it stands this is completely wrong in all sense of the word.

So Tungfa, what do you have to say for yourself? The rest of the community has been very polite today and I have returned the favor. Obviously you disagree with my opinions, fine. I don't mind that. I disagree with your methods just as you disagree with mine, so whats the deciding factor here?

my sleeping habits have nothing to do with this

and 1 more time :
u crossed the line multiple times on Telegram
the community spoke to me (important members left the channel because of you)
what does the admin do ?
fire you ! specially after you dropped 'swearing words and insults" in your last comment !
still not clear enough for you ? well this is how it works in the real world !

[bigrcanada1]

Holy crap...can we move on already?!?  LOL.  Those of us who are invested heavily like seeing creative discussions on different budget proposals.  It sure helps me to take a sober second look and things.  But this is now starting to get personal, and I'm not for any of that.

[bigrcanada1]

Any idea whos behind Dashcurex?  Never heard of them till this morning...

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Any idea whos behind Dashcurex?  Never heard of them till this morning...

They are from the creators of Bitcurex. They are based in Poland. The plan is for them to be a Dash-only exchange, supporting InstantX. I'm not sure if that's still the plan or not, haven't heard from them in a while.

[TanteStefana2]

Vote on whether or not to implement contracts  ? Or benevolent dictator decides

How about we make a proposal to decide if we implement contracts? Like I've always said, I'm along for the ride. If the network doesn't want me to implement something I won't. However, I'm voting yes and I'll argue the merit of contracts for our platform. I think they're important.

Great response evan!

So can I ask why we are so stuck on not just paying out the USD value of the services 1 time per month? like why do we insist the network accepts a long term deal? Can't we just pay the people what they are worth on a monthly basis,upfront?

The ultimate issue here is:

1.  If we use human intervention, IE a "bank account" that we pay through, then there will be all kinds of legal issues, such as tax, possible theft and responsibility, centralization, etc...

2.  If we use a network solution, then the network is rather impervious to theft (coins aren't created and held anywhere, they're paid directly to the proposer.  So taxes and other legal obligations rest on the proposer's shoulders. It's also a decentralized solution.

Question is, can we actually make a hybrid that works for long contracts but doesn't lock the network into paying astronomical prices for services agreed to months or years before.?  I've been MIA, so I need to catch up with this conversation  

[bertlebbert]

[snipped]...

I’ve been working on the V2 of the budget system for the last few days and I’m neck deep in code, this whole ordeal showed up at a good time actually. I think I have a pretty good understanding of where we need to go and basically the network needs to be able to promise a vendor to pay them for an extended period of time in Dash or USD. To do this I want to implement a new type of proposal, that is called a contract. This would also have some new thresholds so that this doesn't get abused:

- Month-to-month proposals: Requiring 10% support from the network
- Multi-month proposals: Requires 10% support of the network
- 3-month contracts: Requires 20% network support
- 6-month contracts: Requires 33% network support
- 12-month contracts: Requires 51% network support

Proposals can be voted down at any time, whereas contracts have a voting window which is no less than 30 days long. Contracts should be very carefully considered by the network because they are much more dangerous and expose us to a liability and market risk no matter how they are denominated.

USD valuations would also be created via quorum and an average price over a period of 7 days would be used to stop people from attacking the implementation. (e.g. if you dump 10000 coins right before the budget is finalized, you could drop the price by 10% and get 10% more coins as a result, right? To stop this we’ll use quorum based averages).

So assuming this technology exists and we can denominate in Dash or USD, we need to have an entirely different conversation about when to use Dash and when to use USD.

To figure out which denomination is better, let’s consider some examples

250 DASH Proposal - At time of submission we agree to pay $1000 USD in Dash.
$1000 USD Proposal - At time of submission we agree to pay $1000 USD.

UP - Let’s say Dash goes up 100%.

250 DASH Proposal is now worth $2000 and takes the same amount of Dash from the budget.
$1000 USD Proposal is now worth $1000 and takes 50% the amount of Dash from the budget

DOWN - Let’s say Dash goes down 50%

250 DASH Proposal is now worth $500 and takes the same amount of Dash from the budget.
$1000 USD Proposal is now worth $1000 and takes 200% the amount of Dash from the budget

Let’s say we only utilize USD based contracts in the system and in one 6 month period we have obligations for $33,000 per month. At $4.20 per Dash, we should have $33,692 dollars available per month, so that seems reasonable. Let’s say the price goes down 50%, now our budget is $16846.20. Now we have a problem, we’ve promised more money than the system can create in a month.

Option A: If the price falls, we don’t pay out the contracts. In this case we’ve made a contract and burned the bridge with a contractor doing ongoing work. This makes our network unusable long term.

Option B: The proposal system could create unpredictable inflation based on the promises the network is making for USD based contracts.

Option C: We allocate in Dash to avoid all of these issues and don’t support USD based contracts at all.

Option D: We give the foundation a budget to take Dash and convert it to fiat, then it keeps the fiat in a bank account. The contractors would contract with our foundation directly and this bank account would serve as a volatility buffer.

Option E: We allocate only X% of the budgets according to the historical volatility of the currency. This can be calculated by taking two standard deviations from the average price history for a long period of time, then figuring out a high and low price threshold. However, this will still result in contractors getting burned once in a while.

Paging TokNormal and BabyGiraffe

As to the network funding Contract proposals, it makes sense they require a longer voting window and higher vote threshold. If we can say Options A, B or C are not viable, there will be both Dash denominated and USD denominated contract proposals.

With Dash denominated contract proposals, risk is on the service provider:
If Dash price increases, his monthly income will be higher than expected; but if Dash price declines, his income will be less. No problem as long as both the voters and the service provider understand this from the outset.

With USD denominated contracts, risk is on the network:
If Dash price increases, the network pays fewer Dash than expected and all is fine; but if Dash price declines, network has a USD shortfall and this creates a problem that can be partly/mostly mitigated with Options D and E.

I'm guessing we'll see Option D, which I think is the right choice

[afreer]

Vote on whether or not to implement contracts  ? Or benevolent dictator decides

How about we make a proposal to decide if we implement contracts? Like I've always said, I'm along for the ride. If the network doesn't want me to implement something I won't. However, I'm voting yes and I'll argue the merit of contracts for our platform. I think they're important.

As feelthebern said, thanks for great response Evan. To me this does seem obvious for a proposal.

Personally I don't like the risks of locking into long term projects. Maybe I haven't considered it all through enough but I don't like the risks. The budget allowance is not a bottomless pit. The exchange rates too volatile. As with Occams razor maybe simplest solution is best.

Someone said Dash might be a monster. I hope ultimately in a good way. I had a vague uneasy vision of 'the network' turning out being worse than 'for profit corporations' are now. Maybe human kind is doomed to these fates. Imagine if we are all one day enslaved by the Dash network in a way 10x worse than what goldman sachs and jp morgan do today ?!  

"Someone said Dash might be a monster"

That was me and it’s just an expression, but look at it this way:

DASH has become an entity that can hire people direct, anywhere in the world, to do anything. Or buy whatever it wants, all by itself, no middle man, no banks.  

You can take out the team it’s hiring to develop it and it can hire new people from new places who work and get paid automatically via the internet.  

You can’t turn it off or censor it because it pays for nodes that can reappear anywhere at any time and it can also pay people to adapt it to keep itself available.  

It utilizes thousands of distributed minds to makes it’s own decisions on time, without contention, without waste or individual human self-interest, and it's core business is the autonomous production and facilitation of transfer of it's own monetary medium via the internet.  

It’s currently orchestrating people to install itself on ATM machines, stores and enter the WWW and targeting billion $ companies from whom it wants to gain market share so it can grow.  

And we know from the dramatic events of the last few days even the people who created it aren’t able to dictate it’s decisions even when they really want to.  

And they planned this into the design.  

People often say ‘you’ve created a monster’ for small things.  In this case, in a highly positive and decentralized way, I think it's warranted.

[Minotaur26]

Vote on whether or not to implement contracts  ? Or benevolent dictator decides

How about we make a proposal to decide if we implement contracts? Like I've always said, I'm along for the ride. If the network doesn't want me to implement something I won't. However, I'm voting yes and I'll argue the merit of contracts for our platform. I think they're important.

As feelthebern said, thanks for great response Evan. To me this does seem obvious for a proposal.

Personally I don't like the risks of locking into long term projects. Maybe I haven't considered it all through enough but I don't like the risks. The budget allowance is not a bottomless pit. The exchange rates too volatile. As with Occams razor maybe simplest solution is best.

Someone said Dash might be a monster. I hope ultimately in a good way. I had a vague uneasy vision of 'the network' turning out being worse than 'for profit corporations' are now. Maybe human kind is doomed to these fates. Imagine if we are all one day enslaved by the Dash network in a way 10x worse than what goldman sachs and jp morgan do today ?!  

"Someone said Dash might be a monster"

That was me and it’s just an expression, but look at it this way:

DASH has become an entity that can hire people direct, anywhere in the world, to do anything. Or buy whatever it wants, all by itself, no middle man, no banks.  

You can take out the team it’s hiring to develop it and it can hire new people from new places who work and get paid automatically via the internet.  

You can’t turn it off or censor it because it pays for nodes that can reappear anywhere at any time and it can also pay people to adapt it to keep itself available.  

It utilizes thousands of distributed minds to makes it’s own decisions on time, without contention, without waste or individual human self-interest, and it's core business is the autonomous production and facilitation of transfer of it's own monetary medium via the internet.  

It’s currently orchestrating people to install itself on ATM machines, stores and enter the WWW and targeting billion $ companies from whom it wants to gain market share so it can grow.  

And we know from the dramatic events of the last few days even the people who created it aren’t able to dictate it’s decisions even when they really want to.  

And they planned this into the design.  

People often say ‘you’ve created a monster’ for small things.  In this case, in a highly positive and decentralized way, I think it's warranted.

Right on Andy, great comment. Dash is becoming Skynet.

[tungfa]

General Reminder !! Scam Warning Pages !!

http://btcreview.info

[ddink7]

(This is the corrected version. I initially submitted a proposal for the wrong amount. I have fixed it.)

Evan and the rest of the Core Team do an amazing job and get paid very little each month. In December 2015, due to the budget not being finalized, no budget funds were disbursed. Nonetheless, Evan paid the Core Team that month out of his own personal funds.

Unless another proposal is approved in the next 36 hours, over 700 Dash in budget funds are going to be "burned" during this budget cycle. That seems wasteful, since there is so much that could be done with that money to further the Dash ecosystem. I propose paying those 700 Dash to Evan to be used either to make an additional payment to the Core Team this month, or to partially reimburse himself for the December payment that he made personally.

This proposal pays to the same Dash address as the main core-team budget ("XtspXMnoGt4RF23CZ7MQQ7NFmkAebMUNME"). Don't take my word for it--enter "mnbudget show" in the console of dash-qt, or "dash-cli mnbudget show" on your linux system and compare the address for this and the address for the original core-team proposal. They are identical.

dash-cli mnbudget vote-many 4608fc0bc3683d3fc40f241fc2d07f8b522b4765415f5faf2a6e19da06ec8ed3 yes

[Financisto]

I tried to run Electrum-dash installed on Debian (Tails OS) but I had no success with my tests.

I've downloaded the last binary "Electrum-DASH-2.4.1_Linux_x86_64-Installer.bin", I've installed it successfully though it doesn't run on Tails 2.0 (32-bit Debian/Linux).

I've also tried installing from master downloaded from Github repository. Nothing worked...

Does anyone here did it right and knew the way?

[splawik21]

Any idea whos behind Dashcurex?  Never heard of them till this morning...

They are from the creators of Bitcurex. They are based in Poland. The plan is for them to be a Dash-only exchange, supporting InstantX. I'm not sure if that's still the plan or not, haven't heard from them in a while.

Asked them of the status a couple days ago, they had to put it on the shelf during some projects priorities but they said they do not leave it at all. 

[tungfa]

I tried to run Electrum-dash installed on Debian (Tails OS) but I had no success with my tests.

I've downloaded the last binary "Electrum-DASH-2.4.1_Linux_x86_64-Installer.bin", I've installed it successfully though it doesn't run on Tails 2.0 (32-bit Debian/Linux).

I've also tried installing from master downloaded from Github repository. Nothing worked...

Does anyone here did it right and knew the way?

Dash Electrum is not working with Tails (not even with BTC electrum in the moment i believe)
Dash Electrum needs some work for that, somebody was talking about that recently
but i am not sure if thats in development or not
i think yidakee looked into that

[Walter_S]

Anyone else experiencing stability issues with their masternodes at the moment? Mine have been bulletproof for months but the last couple of weeks I'm constantly restarting them etc. I haven't made any changes to the underlying system. Has something on the network changed?

Walter

Quite possibly. I had a reliable masternode (16+ weeks of uptime) go down twice in one day, which is very unusual. I reviewed my firewall settings and realized I was not filtering some incoming traffic properly. There could be malicious users out there trying to bang on masternode IPs, looking for exploits. So I would recommend closing all the ports you don't need.  

That's a good point...

It's quite likely that someone is scanning masternode IP's, then searching each server for open ports.

If someone found open ports, they might be trying to brute force crack your password, which could look like a DDOS attack, slowing your server, possibly crashing the masternode...

How much ram does your masternode have available? The budget system is being used pretty actively, that could possibly be taking up more memory.

I'll check on the ram thing. I created a large 2Gb swap file around 10 months ago on my servers as I only had around 768Mb RAM and running 3 MNs on each server. Might be causing the problem..

Walter

Thanks for your help guys. Masternodes are stable now apart from one last issue... One of them keeps going offline but the daemon continues to run fine, I do a remote masternode start-alias from my cold wallet and that fixes it for a couple of hours (don't need to do anything with the daemon on the server). Then it drops off again an hour or two later. It's persistantly happening with one masternode. All others are running fine now. Any ideas?


Cheers

Walter

[AzzAz]

General Reminder !! Scam Warning Pages !!

http://btcreview.info

Tungfa, they post ( top right and at the end ) link "www.dashpay.io".
"Dash is the leading anonimous digital currency" sounds nice though.

[afbitcoins]

Vote on whether or not to implement contracts  ? Or benevolent dictator decides

How about we make a proposal to decide if we implement contracts? Like I've always said, I'm along for the ride. If the network doesn't want me to implement something I won't. However, I'm voting yes and I'll argue the merit of contracts for our platform. I think they're important.

As feelthebern said, thanks for great response Evan. To me this does seem obvious for a proposal.

Personally I don't like the risks of locking into long term projects. Maybe I haven't considered it all through enough but I don't like the risks. The budget allowance is not a bottomless pit. The exchange rates too volatile. As with Occams razor maybe simplest solution is best.

Someone said Dash might be a monster. I hope ultimately in a good way. I had a vague uneasy vision of 'the network' turning out being worse than 'for profit corporations' are now. Maybe human kind is doomed to these fates. Imagine if we are all one day enslaved by the Dash network in a way 10x worse than what goldman sachs and jp morgan do today ?!  

"Someone said Dash might be a monster"

That was me and it’s just an expression, but look at it this way:

DASH has become an entity that can hire people direct, anywhere in the world, to do anything. Or buy whatever it wants, all by itself, no middle man, no banks.  

You can take out the team it’s hiring to develop it and it can hire new people from new places who work and get paid automatically via the internet.  

You can’t turn it off or censor it because it pays for nodes that can reappear anywhere at any time and it can also pay people to adapt it to keep itself available.  

It utilizes thousands of distributed minds to makes it’s own decisions on time, without contention, without waste or individual human self-interest, and it's core business is the autonomous production and facilitation of transfer of it's own monetary medium via the internet.  

It’s currently orchestrating people to install itself on ATM machines, stores and enter the WWW and targeting billion $ companies from whom it wants to gain market share so it can grow.  

And we know from the dramatic events of the last few days even the people who created it aren’t able to dictate it’s decisions even when they really want to.  

And they planned this into the design.  

People often say ‘you’ve created a monster’ for small things.  In this case, in a highly positive and decentralized way, I think it's warranted.

Right on Andy, great comment. Dash is becoming Skynet.

Skynet is what I thought when reading that too ! Scary stuff, maybe we should kill it before its too late ? lol