[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[tbearhere]

DASH is doing great.

[HinnomTX]

Out of interest, why do whales receive more coins which lets them setup more masternodes?  If I own 1 masternode or 10, my share of the supply is increasing at the same rate.  Do you mean the whales can get the next node faster? But i can just put the difference into a shared service and take a 20% hit which is not much different?

There's faster compounding interest for whales since the wait time to setup the next MN is shorter. Yes, in theory one can use a fractional MN service to improve returns. In practice I bet it's not done very often due to needing to trust the MN hosting counterparty. And the 20% hit eats returns a little bit.

  

OK yep that's what I thought then.  I do that through Splawik21 which reminds me he asked me to give feedback which I can confirm has been all good  I never used Node40 but I do know that Perry and Sean behind it regularly add tons of value in different ways from code to connections and are at the front in terms of innovation in our ecosystem.

I don't see it as a real problem then outside of the counterparty risk and loss of 20% profit on the coins not in your own node, besides MNs are just service providers adding value to the network. Without them, no decentralized services, we couldn't think of Evolution either.  Miners are the same, if the quantity of miners and hashrate was hypothetically static and they all invested rewards for securing the network in new hardware, their % of the rewards would stay the same too.  

I hear you. I've heard very good remarks from those who use Node40's services. A little pricey but worth it if you can't or don't want to roll your own MN.  

Still beg to differ about % of reward staying the same for miners though.  The wealth concentration effects of masternodes are significant, versus any other way of getting paid in DASH or virtually any other cryptocurrency (as a former miner, that's why I'm here and just run MNs now. ). Developers who submit and execute proposals in return for DASH don't get compound returns, nor do miners, unless they put 1000 DASH to work from their earnings in a MN. Miners must periodically sell old, sometimes worthless hardware and re-invest in upgrades just to keep up, which is a tough job IMO but I'm glad we have enthusiasts that do it. I'm not saying any of this as a criticism against DASH. The compound effects are just a fact. I run a few MNs myself and have successfuly started new ones based just on prior MN payments. I completely agree with your assessment that they unlock features not found in other currencies, and they do ultimately add value. The more MNs we have online, the more we can do.

[HinnomTX]

But those whales are investing and risking a commensurately "larger" sum in order to obtain that "faster" interest. Whats the difference, economically?  The opportunity and risk is there for any size investor.  How is that different than large miners who reinvest their bitcoins into more mining rigs to get more bitcoins?  They can accumulate the funds necessary to buy new rigs earlier than the small miner, which in turn allows them to be "faster" at finding blocks while the small miner stays the same.

I see your point. But let's focus on DASH mining for a sec. Mining expenses completely eclipse masternode expenses for a given DASH reward. In mining, you have mining hardware costs, electricity costs, periodic hardware upgrades, plus the occasional fire extinguisher. Your competition (i.e. hash rate coming online somewhere else in the world, possibly with free electricity) is theoretically unlimited. Versus masternodes, which after the initial capital investment, cost $3-$10 per month to maintain, do not require capital intensive hardware upgrades (so far), and do not need a fire extinguisher on hand.    Your competition is limited to the maximum number of coins out / 1000 DASH, or about 6490 MNs.  In the long run, MNs have an advantage over miners.

[Lukas_Jackson]

But those whales are investing and risking a commensurately "larger" sum in order to obtain that "faster" interest. Whats the difference, economically?  The opportunity and risk is there for any size investor.  How is that different than large miners who reinvest their bitcoins into more mining rigs to get more bitcoins?  They can accumulate the funds necessary to buy new rigs earlier than the small miner, which in turn allows them to be "faster" at finding blocks while the small miner stays the same.

I see your point. But let's focus on DASH mining for a sec. Mining expenses completely eclipse masternode expenses for a given DASH reward. In mining, you have mining hardware costs, electricity costs, periodic hardware upgrades, plus the occasional fire extinguisher. Your competition (i.e. hash rate coming online somewhere else in the world, possibly with free electricity) is theoretically unlimited. Versus masternodes, which after the initial capital investment, cost $3-$10 per month to maintain, do not require capital intensive hardware upgrades (so far), and do not need a fire extinguisher on hand.    Your competition is limited to the maximum number of coins out / 1000 DASH, or about 6490 MNs.  In the long run, MNs have an advantage over miners.

With Masternodes is not that easy. Atm you need to overcome psychological barrier to be able to invest $8000 for that "peace of mind" 

[Bridgewater]

 In the long run, MNs have an advantage over miners.

Well the Dash economy still does not reflect that sentiment.  If the market thought it was that easy to run masternodes or even partial masternodes, we would see the market cap skyrocket and masternode ROI would be much lower due to a very large number of nodes as people try to get a piece of the "easy ROI."  It is no different than mining, economically.  It adjusts dynamically.

As an experiment, take all the things you consider to be "effort" and think of them in terms of dollar (Dash) value, and assume the rest of the market treats them as such.  First, take away the electricity costs and masternode hosting costs because those are already assumed to be calculated into the ROI comparison.

On the Dash mining side, the effort of babysitting heat-soaked rigs and hardware management, and keeping up with the tech, etc etc, is currently considered to be LESS difficult than masternode management, due to the fact the ROI is much lower if the same $$$ are invested into rigs versus MN.   In other words, compared to investing purely in MN, miners are willing to risk their money on hardware that has potentially reduced resale value, and perform all of those difficult tasks you mention for free, and still accept less return than putting money into masternodes.

What this tells me, is that a few factors could be at play.  I'll just throw some out, for fun:

1. People are much more comfortable dealing with things in the physical realm, and the learning curve for MN is higher than they are willing to confront, given the current ROI (remember MN started with higher ROI than now, but was also much more difficult to setup back then, but investors took the time to figured it out because they were attracted by the higher profits.

or maybe

2. People see the risk of keeping their money in dash/crypto as higher than keeping their money in depreciating ASICs or difficult-to-resell GPU rigs, so that extra risk is balanced out by the higher Dash ROI. 

Those are just guesses. But the point is that you can think of mining and masternoding as being in economic balance.  Higher risk always gets you higher reward.  The easier or less risky something is perceived to be, the lower the reward.

[iCEBREAKER]

DASH has some serious competitors...like LISK, WAVES, DECRED and ETH. What's your opinion?

Chaotic dynamic systems are sensitive to initial conditions.

Dash's initial conditions (the massive instamine, radical emission cut, and centralized governance) forever damn it to Shitcoin Hell.

Those others, which featured legitimate/fair launches, stable emission schedules, and decentralized governance, have much better chances of accomplishing their goals.

Dash is trying to make up for its history and bad crypto with paid marketing and rah-rah-rah Dash Nation cheerleading, but that won't work.

[iCEBREAKER]

The wealth concentration effects of masternodes are significant, versus any other way of getting paid in DASH or virtually any other cryptocurrency (as a former miner, that's why I'm here and just run MNs now. ). Developers who submit and execute proposals in return for DASH don't get compound returns, nor do miners, unless they put 1000 DASH to work from their earnings in a MN. Miners must periodically sell old, sometimes worthless hardware and re-invest in upgrades just to keep up, which is a tough job IMO but I'm glad we have enthusiasts that do it.

I'm not saying any of this as a criticism against DASH.

The compound effects are just a fact.

I run a few MNs myself and have successfuly started new ones based just on prior MN payments.

Thank you for your honesty w/r/t Masternode compounding effects.

You are perhaps the only DashHole not using hand-waving to dismiss the significance of this "feature."

It's intensely dishonest for the others to deny the wealth-compounding Masternode reinvestment "Rich Get Richer" effect exists, and then in the next breath (or post) justify that supposedly non-existent effect in terms of risk.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

https://www.rebelmouse.com/dashnation/catching-btc-1685568612.html

[Camus]

Any news for dash?i am in just waiting for a pump

[pille]

Masternode got paid after long 13 days waiting, that's what you call unlucky I guess  

[Taylor05]

June 2016 Monthly Budget Report

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/june-2016-monthly-budget-report.9090/

[TanteStefana2]

Masternode got paid after long 13 days waiting, that's what you call unlucky I guess  

I'd say.
I generally get paid every 5-6 days.

my average is now more like 6.5 to 7 days

And Wow, somebody is dumping like crazy!  Good time to buy (if you have money, LOL)

[Taylor05]

Proposal: Hardware Wallets For Build And Test

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-hardware-wallets-for-build-and-test.9091/

[TanteStefana2]

Proposal: Hardware Wallets For Build And Test

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-hardware-wallets-for-build-and-test.9091/

You got it, but I wish you had at least tried to slip this in on this month's budget because there is room (waste not want not)  

I'm wondering if anyone has tried both the Trezor and keepkey?  Keepkey is a little prettier, but I think they kind of work the same, no?

[Taylor05]

Proposal: Hardware Wallets For Build And Test

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-hardware-wallets-for-build-and-test.9091/

You got it, but I wish you had at least tried to slip this in on this month's budget because there is room (waste not want not)  

I'm wondering if anyone has tried both the Trezor and keepkey?  Keepkey is a little prettier, but I think they kind of work the same, no?

We were pushing to try to include in June, but the budget actually finalizes in just over 24 hours. We've been encouraged to try to submit a week out if we can, so we're doing our best to provide enough time for proper voting.

We let only 1.4% of the June budget go unspent, so we did pretty good I think.

[tungfa]

Little Dash News Update:
(Tx to sudioz who always hooks me up)
 

http://bitcoinist.net/mathematics-crix-bitcoin-trading/

https://steemit.com/beyondbitcoin/@steemrollin/top-20-alternatives-dash-dash

https://soundcloud.com/sovereignbtc/sovereignbtc-88-bruce-fenton-on-liberty-investing-and-cryptocurrency

https://btcmanager.com/news/roger-ver-at-5280-feet-on-bitcoin-and-his-life-journey/

https://btcmanager.com/news/finance/the-economics-of-bitcoin-a-conversation-with-economist-ashe-whitener/

(Dash mentioned or featured / am still catching up myself)

Edit (and another)
https://btcmanager.com/news/finance/the-economics-of-bitcoin-a-conversation-with-economist-ashe-whitener/
"What new, emergent ideas or innovations do you believe cryptocurrency enthusiasts should be keeping an eye on in the days and months ahead?
A few things: for starters, the functionality coming out of some of these altcoins. One example is Dash which has, in my opinion, a much more improved, nimble governance system than bitcoin and most other cryptocurrencies. I’ve actually met and interviewed Evan Duffield, the creator, and think that he has a really great thing going here."

[TanteStefana2]

We were pushing to try to include in June, but the budget actually finalizes in just over 24 hours. We've been encouraged to try to submit a week out if we can, so we're doing our best to provide enough time for proper voting.

We let only 1.4% of the June budget go unspent, so we did pretty good I think.

True, LOL, but I'm the nutzy penny pinching Mom who doesn't want any to fall through the cracks, LOL  I see each dash as 100,000 USD minimum, so I know I'll feel like my stomach is in my toes 15 years from now when I see how many coins were left to the ether!  LOL.  

Little Dash News Update:
(Tx to sudioz who always hooks me up)
 

http://bitcoinist.net/mathematics-crix-bitcoin-trading/

https://steemit.com/beyondbitcoin/@steemrollin/top-20-alternatives-dash-dash

https://soundcloud.com/sovereignbtc/sovereignbtc-88-bruce-fenton-on-liberty-investing-and-cryptocurrency

https://btcmanager.com/news/roger-ver-at-5280-feet-on-bitcoin-and-his-life-journey/

https://btcmanager.com/news/finance/the-economics-of-bitcoin-a-conversation-with-economist-ashe-whitener/

(Dash mentioned or featured / am still catching up myself)

Wow, so many!  Thanks!

update, some nice validation there, very nice to see.  Good for the soul

[RenegadeMan]

Do you miss my DASH-videos?
Have a look at this new music video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY11UJEeDuI

Maximum repost please! (and not only in crypto medias - very different people like music)

That's really great alex-ru!

[megges]

looks like we have a little whale manipulation going on at poloniex ... i'd like to buy some dash back i sold higher, but mr whale has placed thick buy walls and i believe he is also the one who is selling in his walls to get others to join ... dunno where to place my buys 0.0131, 0.0121 ? dunno if market is "stupid" enough to fill that whale - but i guess chances are good to get a fill around there before we hopefully turn back up - the biggest unknown seems the bitcoin price right now ... i think it will top out around that 600 $ mark, but if it goes crazy it goes crazy right? tough times for trades, perhaps i have to wait longer before i join the game again

[Macrochip]

Masternode got paid after long 13 days waiting, that's what you call unlucky I guess  

No, it wasn't 13 days. Read my post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg15062006#msg15062006

It's all ok.