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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9636852 times)
toknormal
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August 15, 2020, 11:40:55 PM


I never stated that a reduction in the proportion of mined supply will improve DASH's store of value.

Well that's good then, because it won't !   Wink

(It is however the basis of the protocol revision being made to improve "store of value").

Well, you said DASH is less competitive than some of the other POW coins because its marketcap is less than theirs and because DASH has too high masternode rewards. This connection you made of course is your opinion as there's nothing factual you've presented to prove it's not something else instead.

Well it's like this: If your protocol dictates that you require to draw up to twice as much fiat from markets to keep your coin alive compared to competitors then maybe that explains why it only has a quarter to half the value that they do. So you're right it's only my opinion, but only in the same sense that if I look out the window and see a wet road, I assume it's been raining = "only my opinion" but the leading logical candidate all the same.

Trading Cycles do not remotely account for this. They operate in channels and you're being generous in even including us in the same channel as them as we long since dropped out of it.
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August 15, 2020, 11:57:31 PM

So this is where it all started on January 18th 2014. Look how far Dash has progressed and made a position in this congested and saturated market.




Latest Client: Dash v0.15 Release - Download here.

Dash is an open source peer-to-peer cryptocurrency with a strong focus on the payments industry. Dash offers a form of money that is anonymous, portable, inexpensive and fast. It can be spent securely both online and in person with only minimal transaction fees. Based on the Bitcoin project, Dash aims to be the most user-friendly and scalable payments system in the world. In addition to Bitcoin's feature set, Dash currently also includes a second-layer network of masternodes to facilitate instant transactions (InstantSend), private transactions (PrivateSend) and governance functions to create a self-governing and self-funding network capable of paying individuals and businesses for work that adds value to Dash. This decentralized governance and budgeting system makes it one of the first ever successful decentralized autonomous organizations (DAO).

How to update to 0.15: https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/masternodes/dip3-upgrade.html
Downloads: https://www.dash.org/wallets/


Quick Dash Facts:

- Dash is a next generation cryptographic currency
- Dash supports instant transactions and privacy using decentralized technology
- 2 MB blocks + very low fees
- Dash has no premine and was launched fairly and transparently
- Total coins will most likely be near 18.9 million (https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/introduction/features.html#emission-rate)
- Coins will cease to be generated near the year 2300
- Dash uses the X11 algorithm for mining
 
Dash Introduction Videos:

Dash is Digital Cash?




Dash School




Dash 101




Dash Features:

Masternode Network
https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/masternodes/understanding.html

PrivateSend
https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/introduction/features.html#privatesend

InstandSend
https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/introduction/features.html#instantsend

Multi-Phased Spork
https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/introduction/features.html#sporks

Budget System (Funding/ Voting /DGBB)
https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/governance/index.html

Evolution
https://www.dash.org/evolution/

Learn More About Dash


Miscellaneous:

Whitepaper
https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/introduction/about.html#whitepaper

Downloads: Stable release binaries, previous releases and source code:
https://www.dash.org/wallets/

Mining:
https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/mining/index.html

Exchanges:
https://www.dash.org/exchanges/
Mining Pools:
https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/mining/index.html#mining-pools

Dash Merchant Directory:
https://www.dash.org/merchants/

Other tools
Paper Wallet: https://paper.dash.org
Blockchain Explorer1: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash
Blockchain Explorer 2: https://insight.dash.org
Masternode Status: https://dashninja.pl/masternodes.html
Difficulty Chart: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/dash/#@diff

List of Known Scams:
https://docs.dash.org/en/stable/introduction/safety.html#scams


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EARN
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thunderjet
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August 16, 2020, 12:32:24 AM


That's why it's arbitrary to only do your comparison for just today. Each crypto is in a different part of its own market cycle.

You make a great job of defending against a line of argument I'm not making.

How does any of that support the idea that a REDUCTION in the proportion of mined supply is going to improve our store of value (Given that we already have only half of what other coins do) ?

I really don't agree with your reasoning which I think is simply technical hand waving over cycles. There's no "cycle" by which our "real" ranking is somehow arguably higher than what our current markcetcap says it is.

Well, you said DASH is less competitive than some of the other POW coins because its marketcap is less than theirs and because DASH has too high masternode rewards. This connection you made of course is your opinion as there's nothing factual you've presented to prove it's not something else instead.

I said doing a market comparison only for today is arbitrary because DASH is at a different point in its market cycle than these other coins. And in fact, even so, YTD, DASH is very competitive.

I never stated that a reduction in the proportion of mined supply will improve DASH's store of value. I said the change is negligible and I don't think it will improve or hurt DASH's store of value.

I have no issue with your opinion on masternode rewards being too high. My issue is you present your opinion as fact mostly because you say so.

I also never said that DASH's marketcap should be higher than what it actually is, nor that our "real" ranking based on marketcap is somehow higher. I said that it will be higher and will recover faster and pass other POW coins like XMR in due time (2021 almost for sure)

Maybe I'm wrong... you can call me out then I guess. But even then you still only have assumptions as to why DASH might not be as competitive (even though it is so far for 2020)


I also think that 45% is way too much reward for masternodes and it made some unwanted concentracion of power. You said in one of yours previous posts,how miners during bear market even sell at lose.Yes,but 99% of them can do it for a very,very short period of time.If you take a look at DASH mining profitability you can clearly see that DASH miners is in deep loss for a long period of time(even with cheap electricity of $0.05/kWh),but it seems that it does not effect miners too much or hash power.Even with price of electricity of $0.03 DASH miners will be at big loss.

Are these miners crazy and mining DASH at loss for a such long time? I dont think so.Only way to keep mining of DASH profitable during prolonged bear market is combination of very cheap electricity and possesion of masternodes in percentage which is at least equal miners percentage in hashrate.Miners can held some portion of mined coins for some time during bull market and sell them later,but during bear market they dont take chances and sell them almost at once.So in DASH case ,these miners are no regular miners at all,but big whale speculators which thanks to 45% free reward for masternodes pushed price down,deep in unprofitable zone for regular miners,removing them from market to create artificially low price for a long time,getting in possesion of extremely cheap coins from desperate investors forced to sell coins to just get away from huge losses.

Such extreme market squeeze(Dash/BTC pair fell to value very close to ATL of 0.0055 BTC for 1 DASH,which as i know not at one big and medium size coin didnt reach)  is possible because present of excessive reward for masternodes.Without it ,big holders-whales will be forced to keep price enough profitable for majority of regular miners just to keep network safe.That made this unhealthy combination of speculator&miner which is holding DASH to the ground through combination of combined market/miner power.

From about May till today we saw how number of masternodes increased for about 400 - so 400.000 DASH needed for it, should be removed from market and we should see quite price rise (whole sum of sell orders on few main exchanges is about 25.000 coins).That didnt happen ,because big speculator/miners used mined coins to get additional masternodes and make theirs grip on coin network even stronger.


Technically,not just Dash,but all crypto coins,except stablecoins cant be considered as a store of value due to excessive volatility.Yes,you are right ,BTC and ETH are only coins which entered bull market. ZEC is very close,XMR also,DASH and LTC not so close.From mine experience altcons can be considered in bull phase before on 2W  chart coin/BTC pair,  EMA-7 and EMA-30 make confirmed cross above. Coin/USD pair 2W cross cant be considered reliable,but can be precursor of major push when 2W coin/BTC pair are closing crossing too.

For DASH/USD pair, 2W crossing is very close after 2 failed attempt in previous months.In next 2,max. 4 weeks, it will be crossed,possible with enough momentum to make DASH/BTC 2W cross too.We will see.

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August 16, 2020, 01:54:14 AM


Well it's like this: If your protocol dictates that you require to draw up to twice as much fiat from markets to keep your coin alive compared to competitors then maybe that explains why it only has a quarter to half the value that they do. So you're right it's only my opinion, but only in the same sense that if I look out the window and see a wet road, I assume it's been raining = "only my opinion" but the leading logical candidate all the same.

Trading Cycles do not remotely account for this. They operate in channels and you're being generous in even including us in the same channel as them as we long since dropped out of it.

Well, what can I say? You keep repeating the same old tired circular logic. Let me attempt to sum up your doctrine: "DASH is not competitive because of masternode rewards and because of masternode rewards DASH is not competitive."

Ok then, I'm bored of this. I'll remind you when DASH's marketcap is double that of XMR's. I also fully expect DASH to easily hit 0.03 BTC within the next year and if it can break past that will spike up to unstable values of 0.07 BTC and above.

I also think that 45% is way too much reward for masternodes and it made some unwanted concentracion of power. You said in one of yours previous posts,how miners during bear market even sell at lose.Yes,but 99% of them can do it for a very,very short period of time.If you take a look at DASH mining profitability you can clearly see that DASH miners is in deep loss for a long period of time(even with cheap electricity of $0.05/kWh),but it seems that it does not effect miners too much or hash power.Even with price of electricity of $0.03 DASH miners will be at big loss.

Are these miners crazy and mining DASH at loss for a such long time? I dont think so.Only way to keep mining of DASH profitable during prolonged bear market is combination of very cheap electricity and possesion of masternodes in percentage which is at least equal miners percentage in hashrate.Miners can held some portion of mined coins for some time during bull market and sell them later,but during bear market they dont take chances and sell them almost at once.So in DASH case ,these miners are no regular miners at all,but big whale speculators which thanks to 45% free reward for masternodes pushed price down,deep in unprofitable zone for regular miners,removing them from market to create artificially low price for a long time,getting in possesion of extremely cheap coins from desperate investors forced to sell coins to just get away from huge losses.

Such extreme market squeeze(Dash/BTC pair fell to value very close to ATL of 0.0055 BTC for 1 DASH,which as i know not at one big and medium size coin didnt reach)  is possible because present of excessive reward for masternodes.Without it ,big holders-whales will be forced to keep price enough profitable for majority of regular miners just to keep network safe.That made this unhealthy combination of speculator&miner which is holding DASH to the ground through combination of combined market/miner power.

Were LTC miners profitable? How about XMR miners? I don't think so either... DASH went thru exactly one true bull market so far. It is quite common for an asset to retrace all the way back to its starting point before starting the next cycle. If I look at XMR's chart it's not too dissimilar... it took longer in the beginning for people to pick up on this coin but basically 0.005 BTC was its starting point before the bull market and it retraced all the way back before starting its next cycle. LTC has 2 bull markets behind it, and reached a lower high the second time but perhaps the good news for it is that it reached a higher low this last bear market. Against the USD I predict all 3 coins will almost certainly reach ATH's in the coming year or so. These speculative cycles will continue to be extreme until something closer to mass adoption is achieved or a coin gradually dies and fades away.

Regarding the centralization... I think DASH needs to have trustless shared masternodes and/or savings accounts for regular DASH holders to earn (and vote) too. Not only would this help with decentralization, it would likely create a new wave of interest for DASH.

From about May till today we saw how number of masternodes increased for about 400 - so 400.000 DASH needed for it, should be removed from market and we should see quite price rise (whole sum of sell orders on few main exchanges is about 25.000 coins).That didnt happen ,because big speculator/miners used mined coins to get additional masternodes and make theirs grip on coin network even stronger.

Is this just conjecture on your part or do you have hard evidence that DASH miners are setting up masternodes? Perhaps it didn't happen as you expected because exchanges like Binance are setting up masternodes with their users' coins.

Technically,not just Dash,but all crypto coins,except stablecoins cant be considered as a store of value due to excessive volatility.Yes,you are right ,BTC and ETH are only coins which entered bull market. ZEC is very close,XMR also,DASH and LTC not so close.From mine experience altcons can be considered in bull phase before on 2W  chart coin/BTC pair,  EMA-7 and EMA-30 make confirmed cross above. Coin/USD pair 2W cross cant be considered reliable,but can be precursor of major push when 2W coin/BTC pair are closing crossing too.

For DASH/USD pair, 2W crossing is very close after 2 failed attempt in previous months.In next 2,max. 4 weeks, it will be crossed,possible with enough momentum to make DASH/BTC 2W cross too.We will see.


Short term, crypto is not a good store of value, sure. But holders of DASH, XMR, LTC since 2014-2016 are all doing much better than if they stayed in USD. I would argue stablecoins might be the worst store of value long term but good to ride out a crypto bear market. Fiat currencies are meant to be spent as soon as possible because they consistently lose value (in fact are designed to lose value). Saving cash under your mattress is one of the worst ways to save money since at least 1970.

As long as BTC can continue its bullish trend, alts will increasingly recover. Once BTC hits it's previous ATH and hovers and stalls around there for awhile, the good alts will within months reach their own previous ATH's (USD-wise anyway). Then it will be interesting to see how high this goes. Could be a mega-bullrun if mass adoption is on the way or could be another bubble which pops with 70-90+% pullback again.
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August 16, 2020, 02:11:18 AM


I'll remind you when DASH's marketcap is double that of XMR's. I also fully expect DASH to easily hit 0.03 BTC within the next year and if it can break past that will spike up to unstable values of 0.07 BTC and above.

I wouldn't object to that at all. The reward ratio could be disastrously wrong and we could still spike up in spite of it. The Russian's used to put cast iron into Space and I'm sure the market could lift 5000 nodes, passively leaching millions of dollars of value per week out of the ecosystem.

The question is, for how long ?
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August 16, 2020, 07:14:03 AM
Last edit: August 16, 2020, 08:10:49 AM by qwizzie

Lets be clear here, if Dash continues performing as it has been performing since January 2020 through long term upward momentum and at some point passes Monero in marketcap
(or passes any other PoW project that Dash according toknormal has been underperforming to), then toknormal's whole market understanding and how Dash fits in there,
will have proven to be completely and totally wrong. And all his posts about it (which were nothing more then unproven assumptions anyways), will have been incorrect from the start.  

There is no dodging that, no blaming it on some accidental spike.
The question is, will he acknowledge that when that happens ?

  

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August 16, 2020, 07:42:47 AM
Last edit: August 16, 2020, 08:04:02 AM by qwizzie

So this is where it all started on January 18th 2014. Look how far Dash has progressed and made a position in this congested and saturated market.

Yep. I still remember going to Dash first (budget funded) conference in The Netherlands (Amsterdam) early 2015.
It was a Bitcoin-organised weekly meet-up that would also let Altcoin projects give a presentation there, which is what Dash (Evan Duffield and some other team members) was doing there.
I remember the Bitcoin organizer being so impressed with Dash growth and marketcap of 14 million USD at the time, that he specifically mentioned it in his Dash introduction.

Now Dash has a marketcap of 919 million USD and made all these technical advancements, integrations, expansions and partnerships. Dash userbase has also grown considerably since 2015.
It is almost surreal if you think about it, how fast things can move in this crypto space.

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August 16, 2020, 10:38:26 AM
Last edit: August 16, 2020, 04:19:26 PM by toknormal

Lets be clear here, if Dash continues performing as it has been performing since January 2020 through long term upward momentum and at some point passes Monero in marketcap
(or passes any other PoW project that Dash according toknormal has been underperforming to), then toknormal's whole market understanding and how Dash fits in there,
will have proven to be completely and totally wrong

That's very constructive of you.

How about simply addressing the material of the issue at hand. For example you could have said:

"...but Tok, your point about the "cost" of MN reward being additional to mining cost is flawed because the superblock and blocks containing MN reward are automatically generated and their cost is not borne by miners" (Because I'm not actually sure if they are or not and I could have been wrong about the granular mechanism by which the reward split is invoked which would at least mitigate the adverse impact that MN rewards have on our marketcap) And that could have lead to an illuminating exchange about the granular economics of the protocol

or...

"...but Tok, you know that we're still in the speculative "pricing in" phase. When Dash platform arrives there will be service demand that leads to the need for costly service provision. This will bring MN and mining margins into parity and create demand for utility at the same time. We are seeing this now being priced in"...which would have lead to an illuminating discussion about the type, quantity and value of services that "platform" could potentially attract

or...

"...but Tok, your theory about supernormal profits is misplaced. It applies to competing businesses in a common commercial sector and cannot be similarly applied to mining margin vs masternode margin"...in which case an instructive debate about whether MN and miner economic priorities interact in a complimentary or adverse way to support the capital value of the coin

or...

"...but Tok, that's all very well, but none of us give a sh* about optimally tuning the fundamental mechanics of this coin's economics, nor understanding it. We just want the thing to pump to kingdom come so we can get out of here and retire, so stfu"

But instead it's down to a question of whether I'm "wrong or right". Well there's nothing to be wrong or right about - the numbers are there staring us in the face. Likeways the results of 6 years of trading. I personally like to understand the mechanics of these things even if others can't be bothered and prefer to just sit on their hides with their thumbs in their mouths while waiting for a pump to turn up & save their *sses.

There's likely to be a Miner/MN ratio "sweet spot" and the danger of not identifying it categorically is that anywhere outside it will simply stall the growth of the coin entirely (relative to competing 100% mined offerings). I gave my opinion on where I think that "sweet spot" is in the previous post: margin parity. Ryan has given his based on optimising masternode incentives. My problem with that approach is that he's using the wrong units to identify key parameters like supply to markets & ROI since they don't take into account capital gains/losses. That and the fact it has not demonstrated success in 5 years of trading so we're too far over to the right IMO and now we're moving even further to the right that places us potentially in chronic negative growth territory (relative to competing 100% mined assets).

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August 16, 2020, 02:50:56 PM

How Dash Has Great Security



Security is a highly important thing in the cryptocurrency space. If a blockchain is not secure there could be possible vulnerabilities that allow malicious actors to mine more coins that there should be or even perform a double spend attack. A double spend attack is where a person is able to spend the same amount of currency twice, for example if a malicious actor had 2 Dash and was able to double spend it they could send the 2 Dash to two new addresses, effectively allowing them to own 4 Dash instead of 2...

Read more: https://www.dashnation.com/voices-of-dash-nation/how-dash-has-great-security/

Thanks for reading!

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August 16, 2020, 04:31:38 PM

Who would have thought all those years ago Dash would have had an all time high price of over $1400 and market cap of over $11 billion and even today trades at over $95 and has a market cap of over $900 million.

What promoted you to go along to that conference in Amsterdam back in 2015 when Dash got a chance to make their presentation?


So this is where it all started on January 18th 2014. Look how far Dash has progressed and made a position in this congested and saturated market.

Yep. I still remember going to Dash first (budget funded) conference in The Netherlands (Amsterdam) early 2015.
It was a Bitcoin-organised weekly meet-up that would also let Altcoin projects give a presentation there, which is what Dash (Evan Duffield and some other team members) was doing there.
I remember the Bitcoin organizer being so impressed with Dash growth and marketcap of 14 million USD at the time, that he specifically mentioned it in his Dash introduction.

Now Dash has a marketcap of 919 million USD and made all these technical advancements, integrations, expansions and partnerships. Dash userbase has also grown considerably since 2015.
It is almost surreal if you think about it, how fast things can move in this crypto space.


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tbct_mt2
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August 16, 2020, 04:37:08 PM

How Dash Has Great Security

Security is a highly important thing in the cryptocurrency space. If a blockchain is not secure there could be possible vulnerabilities that allow malicious actors to mine more coins that there should be or even perform a double spend attack. A double spend attack is where a person is able to spend the same amount of currency twice, for example if a malicious actor had 2 Dash and was able to double spend it they could send the 2 Dash to two new addresses, effectively allowing them to own 4 Dash instead of 2...

Read more: https://www.dashnation.com/voices-of-dash-nation/how-dash-has-great-security/
Double spend and replay attacks are more possible with altcoins because their total network hashrates are not high as of bitcoin. Last 2 weeks, ETC had a replay attack and it is a warning for altcoin enthusiasts. DASH is good in term of security but even with the security I won't put all my money into DASH. It is a basic thing to remember and apply.

Thank you for the article.

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August 16, 2020, 05:04:25 PM

How Dash Has Great Security

Security is a highly important thing in the cryptocurrency space. If a blockchain is not secure there could be possible vulnerabilities that allow malicious actors to mine more coins that there should be or even perform a double spend attack. A double spend attack is where a person is able to spend the same amount of currency twice, for example if a malicious actor had 2 Dash and was able to double spend it they could send the 2 Dash to two new addresses, effectively allowing them to own 4 Dash instead of 2...

Read more: https://www.dashnation.com/voices-of-dash-nation/how-dash-has-great-security/
Double spend and replay attacks are more possible with altcoins because their total network hashrates are not high as of bitcoin. Last 2 weeks, ETC had a replay attack and it is a warning for altcoin enthusiasts. DASH is good in term of security but even with the security I won't put all my money into DASH. It is a basic thing to remember and apply.

Thank you for the article.

ETC's problem is not BTC or DASH. All 3 have different hash algorithms. The problem with ETC is that it uses Ethash and the dominant chain that uses Ethash is ETH. So, someone can easily rent Ethash from a cloud service and redirect it from ETH to ETC and own 51%+ of the hash rate for ETC. This allows them to send ETC to an exchange on the known chain and sell them all the while mining a longer chain in secret. On the secret chain they never sent their ETC anywhere. Then they reveal the secret chain and because it's the longer chain it wins, erasing the previously known chain from the record. That way they have sold their coins and kept them at the same time. The exchange (or users) no longer have access to the ETC they thought they bought.

This is a 51% attack... not a replay attack... a replay attack is where 2 chains share the same digital signature (typically when one chain forks off another, and replay protection is not coded in - ie: slightly modifying the digital signature so they are different between chains). Because of this, if you send from one chain, someone can take the digital signature and replay it on the other chain, thus stealing coins from the 2nd chain (note it can only send the same number of coins to the same address on both chains).  Replay protection was implemented for ETH and ETC as well as BTC and BCH... not sure about BSV.

DASH uses X11 and is the dominant chain for this hash algorithm. Because of that I'm not sure you could easily rent enough X11 hash in the first place to own 51% simply because it is unlikely to be available. And now because of DASH's chainlocks, it doesn't matter anyway, even if you have 51% of the hashrate and mine in secret, once you reveal your longer chain it would be rejected because chainlocks locks in the known chain anyway.

Regarding ETC, only reason I think it hasn't completely died already from these repeated double-spend attacks is because once ETH goes POS, ETC will become the dominant Ethash chain and will in all likelihood spike up in price.
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August 16, 2020, 05:11:05 PM

It was in my own country, and i live near Amsterdam. Easy decision to make  Grin

Who would have thought all those years ago Dash would have had an all time high price of over $1400 and market cap of over $11 billion and even today trades at over $95 and has a market cap of over $900 million.

What promoted you to go along to that conference in Amsterdam back in 2015 when Dash got a chance to make their presentation?


So this is where it all started on January 18th 2014. Look how far Dash has progressed and made a position in this congested and saturated market.

Yep. I still remember going to Dash first (budget funded) conference in The Netherlands (Amsterdam) early 2015.
It was a Bitcoin-organised weekly meet-up that would also let Altcoin projects give a presentation there, which is what Dash (Evan Duffield and some other team members) was doing there.
I remember the Bitcoin organizer being so impressed with Dash growth and marketcap of 14 million USD at the time, that he specifically mentioned it in his Dash introduction.

Now Dash has a marketcap of 919 million USD and made all these technical advancements, integrations, expansions and partnerships. Dash userbase has also grown considerably since 2015.
It is almost surreal if you think about it, how fast things can move in this crypto space.


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August 16, 2020, 06:19:51 PM


This is a 51% attack... not a replay attack... a replay attack is where 2 chains share the same digital signature (typically when one chain forks off another, and replay protection is not coded in - ie: slightly modifying the digital signature....Regarding ETC, only reason I think it hasn't completely died already from these repeated double-spend attacks is because once ETH goes POS, ETC will become the dominant Ethash chain and will in all likelihood spike up in price.

Very interesting post.

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August 16, 2020, 08:58:01 PM

Well that explains that then  Grin

Seems like it was a good move on your part. How long after that event did you get involved with Dash?

It was in my own country, and i live near Amsterdam. Easy decision to make  Grin

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August 17, 2020, 05:38:55 AM


Well it's like this: If your protocol dictates that you require to draw up to twice as much fiat from markets to keep your coin alive compared to competitors then maybe that explains why it only has a quarter to half the value that they do. So you're right it's only my opinion, but only in the same sense that if I look out the window and see a wet road, I assume it's been raining = "only my opinion" but the leading logical candidate all the same.

Trading Cycles do not remotely account for this. They operate in channels and you're being generous in even including us in the same channel as them as we long since dropped out of it.

Well, what can I say? You keep repeating the same old tired circular logic. Let me attempt to sum up your doctrine: "DASH is not competitive because of masternode rewards and because of masternode rewards DASH is not competitive."

Ok then, I'm bored of this. I'll remind you when DASH's marketcap is double that of XMR's. I also fully expect DASH to easily hit 0.03 BTC within the next year and if it can break past that will spike up to unstable values of 0.07 BTC and above.

I also think that 45% is way too much reward for masternodes and it made some unwanted concentracion of power. You said in one of yours previous posts,how miners during bear market even sell at lose.Yes,but 99% of them can do it for a very,very short period of time.If you take a look at DASH mining profitability you can clearly see that DASH miners is in deep loss for a long period of time(even with cheap electricity of $0.05/kWh),but it seems that it does not effect miners too much or hash power.Even with price of electricity of $0.03 DASH miners will be at big loss.

Are these miners crazy and mining DASH at loss for a such long time? I dont think so.Only way to keep mining of DASH profitable during prolonged bear market is combination of very cheap electricity and possesion of masternodes in percentage which is at least equal miners percentage in hashrate.Miners can held some portion of mined coins for some time during bull market and sell them later,but during bear market they dont take chances and sell them almost at once.So in DASH case ,these miners are no regular miners at all,but big whale speculators which thanks to 45% free reward for masternodes pushed price down,deep in unprofitable zone for regular miners,removing them from market to create artificially low price for a long time,getting in possesion of extremely cheap coins from desperate investors forced to sell coins to just get away from huge losses.

Such extreme market squeeze(Dash/BTC pair fell to value very close to ATL of 0.0055 BTC for 1 DASH,which as i know not at one big and medium size coin didnt reach)  is possible because present of excessive reward for masternodes.Without it ,big holders-whales will be forced to keep price enough profitable for majority of regular miners just to keep network safe.That made this unhealthy combination of speculator&miner which is holding DASH to the ground through combination of combined market/miner power.

Were LTC miners profitable? How about XMR miners? I don't think so either... DASH went thru exactly one true bull market so far. It is quite common for an asset to retrace all the way back to its starting point before starting the next cycle. If I look at XMR's chart it's not too dissimilar... it took longer in the beginning for people to pick up on this coin but basically 0.005 BTC was its starting point before the bull market and it retraced all the way back before starting its next cycle. LTC has 2 bull markets behind it, and reached a lower high the second time but perhaps the good news for it is that it reached a higher low this last bear market. Against the USD I predict all 3 coins will almost certainly reach ATH's in the coming year or so. These speculative cycles will continue to be extreme until something closer to mass adoption is achieved or a coin gradually dies and fades away.

Regarding the centralization... I think DASH needs to have trustless shared masternodes and/or savings accounts for regular DASH holders to earn (and vote) too. Not only would this help with decentralization, it would likely create a new wave of interest for DASH.

From about May till today we saw how number of masternodes increased for about 400 - so 400.000 DASH needed for it, should be removed from market and we should see quite price rise (whole sum of sell orders on few main exchanges is about 25.000 coins).That didnt happen ,because big speculator/miners used mined coins to get additional masternodes and make theirs grip on coin network even stronger.

Is this just conjecture on your part or do you have hard evidence that DASH miners are setting up masternodes? Perhaps it didn't happen as you expected because exchanges like Binance are setting up masternodes with their users' coins.

Technically,not just Dash,but all crypto coins,except stablecoins cant be considered as a store of value due to excessive volatility.Yes,you are right ,BTC and ETH are only coins which entered bull market. ZEC is very close,XMR also,DASH and LTC not so close.From mine experience altcons can be considered in bull phase before on 2W  chart coin/BTC pair,  EMA-7 and EMA-30 make confirmed cross above. Coin/USD pair 2W cross cant be considered reliable,but can be precursor of major push when 2W coin/BTC pair are closing crossing too.

For DASH/USD pair, 2W crossing is very close after 2 failed attempt in previous months.In next 2,max. 4 weeks, it will be crossed,possible with enough momentum to make DASH/BTC 2W cross too.We will see.


Short term, crypto is not a good store of value, sure. But holders of DASH, XMR, LTC since 2014-2016 are all doing much better than if they stayed in USD. I would argue stablecoins might be the worst store of value long term but good to ride out a crypto bear market. Fiat currencies are meant to be spent as soon as possible because they consistently lose value (in fact are designed to lose value). Saving cash under your mattress is one of the worst ways to save money since at least 1970.

As long as BTC can continue its bullish trend, alts will increasingly recover. Once BTC hits it's previous ATH and hovers and stalls around there for awhile, the good alts will within months reach their own previous ATH's (USD-wise anyway). Then it will be interesting to see how high this goes. Could be a mega-bullrun if mass adoption is on the way or could be another bubble which pops with 70-90+% pullback again.



LTC miners are in good profit zone with $0.05 cost of electricity,DASH miners are at loss even with $0.03...

XMR miners are at loss,but if you look at XMR hashrate chart, it is pretty flat for a long period of time.At the other hand, DASH hashrate doubled for same period of time.Why would anybody invest in mining DASH when it is unprofitable even with $0.03 price of electricity?  Nobody will waste money just like that. DASH is profitable,but only and only if you posses masternodes in equal or bigger percentage of your part in hashrate. That is a catch. Big holders whose posses a lot of masternodes due to 45-45% sharing mining reward betweeen miners and masternodes operators have a huge leverage to push price way down of pure miners profit zone,removed them for market and completely dominate mining,market supply and price of coin.Such concentracion of power is always very bad for coin.

Dash retraced far below other coins. Look at LTC and XMR you mentioned. LTC value just before 2017 pump was 0.003 BTC.During this bear market,LTC lowest price hit 0.0048 BTC,or 60% up from lowest price during last bear market.

If we look at XMR, its ATL is about 0.001 BTC. During this bear market XMR lowest price hits 0.0054 BTC which is  5.4x bigger than lowest price during last bear market.

Then DASH. Its lowest price in 2017,before bull run was 0.01 BTC.In 2016 price was also about 0.009-0.01 BTC. During this bear market it hits 0.0053 BTC,so price went 2x less,making new ATL hitting price lower than in 2015... DASH performance is not just bad,but extremely bad in comparison with other coins. What message it sends to investors ? In one thing we agree,due to low supply and unnatural unification of big holders ,masternode operators and miners,DASH is ideal toy for the most extreme pumping/dumping.

One more thing.Binance couldnt establish 400 new masternodes,because whole sum of DASH on it is about 8000 coins,enough for only 8 nodes.




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August 17, 2020, 05:40:15 AM
Last edit: August 17, 2020, 05:58:35 AM by qwizzie

The Dash project started 18th of January 2014
I invested in Dash 4 months later (May 2014) and became a masternode operator pretty soon after that.  That is also when i became involved with Dash testnet,
Dash forum and this Bitcointalk forum. As a masternode operator i voted yes on this first budget proposal, as i saw marketing and promotion value for Dash.
It just happened to also be a rare and good opportunity to see some of the Dash Core Group members in real life and shake hands with them.  

Well that explains that then  Grin

Seems like it was a good move on your part. How long after that event did you get involved with Dash?

It was in my own country, and i live near Amsterdam. Easy decision to make  Grin

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August 17, 2020, 06:09:14 AM
Last edit: August 17, 2020, 08:10:09 AM by qwizzie


One more thing.Binance couldnt establish 400 new masternodes,because whole sum of DASH on it is about 8000 coins,enough for only 8 nodes.

Where exactly did you get your information that Binance whole sum of Dash is about 8000 coins ?
And are you aware that Dash locked savings on Binance removes the locked Dash from Binance users spot accounts and temporarily store them somewhere else ?

Quote
Why would anybody invest in mining DASH when it is unprofitable even with $0.03 price of electricity?  Nobody will waste money just like that

I heard people ask this question before way way back in 2014 and i am sure people will ask it again, whenever the Dash price is low or under pressure.

Quote
DASH is profitable,but only and only if you posses masternodes in equal or bigger percentage of your part in hashrate.
Just your opinion, and not a very logical opinion if you ask me.

Miners will then have to invest in : mining equipment, paying for electricity, paying for the Dash collateral of 1000 Dash, paying for server costs.
More miners operating masternodes would naturally lead to more resistance to budget proposals that are acting against the miners interest.
There are no signs that is happening. The Dash Core Group blockreward reallocation decision proposal showed overwhelming masternodes support for reducing mining rewards.

Not to mention that you can't posses masternodes in equal or bigger percentage of your part in hashrate, as masternodes are restricted to a 1000 Dash collateral.
Even staking on exchanges* is more profitable these days, then setting up a Dash masternode **.

*  

https://www.binance.com/en/support/articles/af64a497b040498f85c573baf4f24fcb (7,12% annual)
https://dashnews.org/smart-valor-swiss-cryptocurrency-exchange-offers-staking-rewards-for-dash-users/ (6,9% annual)
https://www.bitmart.com/staking/en (8% annual)

** https://www.stakingrewards.com/earn/dash (5,65% annual)

Miners could of course try one of the many shared hosting services out there (no 1000 Dash collateral restriction), but then they would have to place trust in that shared hosting service provider
by sending that provider their collateral Dash amount and still be less profitable then staking on an exchange. I really don't see the attraction for miners there either.

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August 17, 2020, 07:09:40 AM

LTC miners are in good profit zone with $0.05 cost of electricity,DASH miners are at loss even with $0.03...

XMR miners are at loss,but if you look at XMR hashrate chart, it is pretty flat for a long period of time.At the other hand, DASH hashrate doubled for same period of time.Why would anybody invest in mining DASH when it is unprofitable even with $0.03 price of electricity?  Nobody will waste money just like that. DASH is profitable,but only and only if you posses masternodes in equal or bigger percentage of your part in hashrate. That is a catch. Big holders whose posses a lot of masternodes due to 45-45% sharing mining reward betweeen miners and masternodes operators have a huge leverage to push price way down of pure miners profit zone,removed them for market and completely dominate mining,market supply and price of coin.Such concentracion of power is always very bad for coin.

Ok, so XMR and DASH are unprofitable to mine at the moment... but still you're assuming that DASH miners are setting up masternodes because the hashrate doubled. Could be but I don't call that hard evidence.

Dash retraced far below other coins. Look at LTC and XMR you mentioned. LTC value just before 2017 pump was 0.003 BTC.During this bear market,LTC lowest price hit 0.0048 BTC,or 60% up from lowest price during last bear market.

If we look at XMR, its ATL is about 0.001 BTC. During this bear market XMR lowest price hits 0.0054 BTC which is  5.4x bigger than lowest price during last bear market.

Then DASH. Its lowest price in 2017,before bull run was 0.01 BTC.In 2016 price was also about 0.009-0.01 BTC. During this bear market it hits 0.0053 BTC,so price went 2x less,making new ATL hitting price lower than in 2015... DASH performance is not just bad,but extremely bad in comparison with other coins. What message it sends to investors ? In one thing we agree,due to low supply and unnatural unification of big holders ,masternode operators and miners,DASH is ideal toy for the most extreme pumping/dumping.

Only if you discount the first 4 months of DASH's existence... it was at 0.001 BTC as well. I see it as splitting hairs to really say much is different between the 2 charts other than that DASH pumped earlier and than ultimately higher. XMR and DASH were largely valued the same per coin last bear market and look at that, valued almost the same this bear market. Btw, both DASH and XMR were created in the 2014 bear market so for them it wasn't really a bear market. You can check out some of the newer coins released during the 2018 bear market like ATOM, XTZ. They haven't really had a bear market either.

For LTC, it has gone thru its own bear market to compare with and yes, higher low and lower high (2014 bear market/2017 bull market). This might be a clue as to how DASH, XMR and LTC perform the next bull and bear markets relative to BTC...

One more thing.Binance couldnt establish 400 new masternodes,because whole sum of DASH on it is about 8000 coins,enough for only 8 nodes.

How are you determining that? And do you think Binance is the only exchange setting up masternodes?
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August 17, 2020, 08:25:01 AM
Last edit: August 17, 2020, 08:48:20 AM by qwizzie

30M Time interval

Source : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/HITBTC:DASH-BTC?period=30m

1D Time Interval

Source : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/HITBTC:DASH-BTC?period=1d

Dash price getting closer to 0.008848 BTC, will Dash flip it into support and break into 0.009 BTC ? Stay tuned.....
Bitcoin Marketcap Dominance : 58,3%

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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