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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9670138 times)
jdmcg
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November 11, 2020, 11:45:05 PM


Again, what advantage does a masternode owner have to mine DASH over anyone else?

Well lets look it another way. What advantage do Dash miners who run masternodes have over Dash miners who don't ?

Their net mining difficulty is far lower for the same network difficulty.


Oh, so now it's the miners that are becoming masternodes...  Roll Eyes
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qwizzie
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November 12, 2020, 12:05:21 AM
Last edit: November 12, 2020, 12:43:23 AM by qwizzie

Too many baseless assumptions, too few facts.

One from a person who has a history of presenting his assumptions as facts, the other from a person making assumptions that just make no sense at all.
One from a person that thinks that the Dash price is in a death spiral, the other from a person that thinks that the Dash price will be dumped to oblivion.
One from a person still invested but regretting it and planning to sell during first big pump, the other from a person who sold his 80 Dash long long ago.
  
They sure provide good company to each other, with their Dash negativity.


The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 12, 2020, 12:09:09 AM


Oh, so now it's the miners that are becoming masternodes...  Roll Eyes

You seem to personify aspects of the protocol. I don't know why people do that. It's also one of the reasons we got into this mess I think.

I get that it's common for an individual to be associated with a masternode but a "miner" is not a person as in a coal miner who actually goes down a mine with a pick axe. Nor is a masternode. These are functional properties of the protocol that issue coins to addresses under distinct constraints. Thats how they should be appraised.

So in the general case, the "difficulty" must be aggregated across the chain which means that any economic entity that operates a hybrid business model will have a lower aggregate difficulty level than one in a pure mining operation. The former therefore has the advantage which means it's likely not only exist but grow in prevalence.

There's therefore no basis for dismissing thunderjet's assertions about hybrid mining groups because it's likely to become the only viable way to mine Dash.
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November 12, 2020, 12:17:46 AM


Oh, so now it's the miners that are becoming masternodes...  Roll Eyes

You seem to personify aspects of the protocol. I don't know why people do that. It's also one of the reasons we got into this mess I think.

I get that it's common for an individual to be associated with a masternode but a "miner" is not a person as in a coal miner who actually goes down a mine with a pick axe. Nor is a masternode. These are functional properties of the protocol that issue coins to addresses under distinct constraints. Thats how they should be appraised.

So in the general case, the "difficulty" must be aggregated across the chain which means that any economic entity that operates a hybrid business model will have a lower aggregate difficulty level than one in a pure mining operation. The former therefore has the advantage which means its likely not only exist but grow in prevalence.

There's therefore no basis for dismissing thunderjet's assertions about hybrid mining groups.


Keep spitballing... I'm sure you'll find the correct equation that matches your already long ago perceived conclusions eventually...

I suggest everyone to reject assertions that have no proof...
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November 12, 2020, 02:03:17 AM
Last edit: November 12, 2020, 02:31:01 AM by toknormal


I suggest everyone to reject assertions that have no proof...

You have 5 mining businesses, A, B, C, D and E, each of which invest around $200k in mining equipment. A is a pure mining operation, B to D 4 are hybrids. Assume the hybrid operations acquire their masternodes at the time of purchase of the mining equipment and dispose of them at the break-even point so there's no net investment in Dash other than the hashrate which going into raising the mining difficulty.

Note that, despite all making exactly the same investment in mining and contributing exactly the same hashrate to the difficulty level, B to D reach mining profitability far faster than a pure miner because they're operating under ever reducing effective difficulty levels and so are more profitable.

The shortfall in difficulty for operations B-D is what's quantifiably lost to the network in terms of supply scarcity compared with 100% mined coins. Note also that, at this level of mining investment, the marginal benefit additional nodes tails off. It isn't linear so no "ever increasing" demand for nodes. The first 3-5 is enough to get a 50% difficulty reduction. (That's because we've set the reward ratio at near 50%).

The reason this is more favourable to the Dash Miner/masternode combo than, say [Other Coin Miner]/Dash Masternode combo is because it optimises Dash coin accumulation which can go towards masternodes and further reduce the effective difficulty. (In the examples below, nearly 3 nodes are acquired by the mining equipment break even point. In the non-hybrid example they're all from mining reward which turns that operation into a de-facto hybrid one anyway if they are held).

This is simply the "cruise ship" problem (capital loss from the chain) stated differently. There are lots of ways to express it. It's also an example of how the market simply corrects our reward ratio for us if we don't set it so that masternode/mining profitability is at near parity in the first place. (It has to devalue the coin to do that).



Refs:

https://www.coinwarz.com/mining/dash/calculator?h=8800000.00&p=3250.00&pc=0.10&pf=0.00&d=203977121.56010000&r=1.55331350&er=0.00440467&btcer=15619.44830000&ha=MH&hc=0.00&hs=0&hq=1

https://xn--bitmai-nt7b.com/product/antminer-s19-pro-110th-s/
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November 12, 2020, 07:03:32 AM
Last edit: November 12, 2020, 08:19:11 AM by qwizzie

Looks like Dash price performance (95,41% price down from ATH) has become slightly better then IOTA (95,47% price down from ATH). Dash still has a lot of catching up to do with other crypto coins.
Polkadot, Monero and Filecoin not doing so well. Polkadot got dumped ever since they implemented their redenomination, Monero turned bearish recentely and Filecoin is not having a good day i guess.

Bitcoin close at breaking into the $16,000 range (currently at $15,920). I wonder when FOMO starts to kick-in with Bitcoin. My family already heard about Bitcoin price rise, so the hype is definitely
spreading to regular news outlets.



Source : messari.io



Source : tradingview.com

It isn't a "bear cycle" it's a death spiral

Yep, totally a death spiral, no question about it  Roll Eyes
toknormal and his 'statements'  Roll Eyes

Looks like a trend change is occurring on the monthly MACD. Will it provide stronger positive momentum and a price turning point ? Stay tuned....

Quote
The moving average convergence divergence (MACD) indicator is one of the most common tools investors and traders use to try to spot trend changes—the holy grail of the markets.
The MACD measures a stock's momentum and can aid investors in spotting shifts in that momentum that may betray price turning points.

Source : https://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/09/spotting-trend-reversals-macd.asp

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 12, 2020, 08:44:42 AM

Those who wanted to get rid of DASH and switch to Bitcoin have already done so.
Obviously, it is already dangerous to sell DASH, perhaps we will not see below 0.004350.
Even if we see it, the happy people who manage to buy so cheap)

How much profit can you get in the SHORT position? - Minimum, but there are very, very many risks.
How much profit can you get in a LONG position? -Maximum 0.09BTC
If Bitcoin reaches the price of $ 100,000, then the DASH price will be at least $ 435 (0.00435BTC). And for pumping about $ 9000

I read how you argue, prove, think.
Matimatika will do its job, it will take a coin from someone, add to someone)
I eat popcorn and wait in the wings to lock in 100X profit.

Good and profit to everyone!
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November 12, 2020, 08:59:40 AM

Crypto Exchange Platform ShapeShift Delists Privacy Coins Monero, Zcash and Dash to Reduce Regulatory Risk
https://coincodex.com/article/9912/crypto-exchange-platform-shapeshift-delists-privacy-coins-monero-zcash-and-dash-to-reduce-regulatory-risk/

Quote
* ShapeShift has delisted privacy coins Monero, Dash and Zcash
* According to the company's chief legal officer, the exchange is trying to reduce regulatory risk
* ShapeShift's move is unusual since US regulators haven't been cracking down on privacy coins

Quote
Monero is available for trading on Kraken, while Coinbase and Gemini users have access to Zcash. Gemini even received approval from the NYDFS to offer shielded (private) Zcash withdrawals to its clients.
Dash, which is generally not perceived as a privacy coin in the crypto community, is listed on several platforms.

This starts to feel like one step forward, two steps backward.

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Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 12, 2020, 12:58:26 PM

4500 masternodes were established before 2017 bull run.During it,only about 12% sold theirs coins,despite price went up more than 100x. If DASH was truly decentralized,we would see a huge selling of masternode operators coins during the pump and later slowly rebuy.Not at one investor would miss such opportunity to earn 100x, except if you are the one who pump coin and cant dump on yourself.That was first major sign of highly centralized ownership.

Only 12%? Tell me, how did you figure that? Did you actually track all the masternodes as they were taken down to be sold? How do you know they were sold at all? How do you know if they weren't just moved to a new address?

Not one investor would miss such opportunity to earn 100x? Just in this thread I see more than a few Dash hodlers who held too long and did miss the opportunity to earn 100x. I get the distinct impression that toknormal and other disgruntled masternode owners didn't sell during the bull run and that is part of the bitterness they bring here now.

Now all the talk about which coin is more decentralized seems pointless.

Do you really think BTC is that decentralized? How many people in this world own any yet?


Simply, take a look at historic chart of DASH masternodes and you will see how much masternodes number fell during bull run.

Looking at the historical chart, I could determine that many new investors rushed in to set up masternodes. So your math is too simple.

Sure,some masternodes owners missed opportunity to sell theirs coins at 100x or more bigger price. But 88% is way too high percentage. People who invested so much money in running a large number of masternodes are not fools.

More than some missed out I believe. You continue to make conclusions based on assumptions. Why?

Most coins are more or less centralized.Problem with DASH is too much centralization which suffocates coin more and more :

Like I already asked... do you think BTC is decentralized? How many people in this world actually own some?

- 1000 coins condition for masternodes favourites big investors and inevitable led to further centralization. 50-100 coins threshold would be more appropriate if the goal was decentralization,

- 50% masternode reward is way too much for service they provide. Consequence is that large masternode operators due to such high reward got ability to eliminate ordinary miners,because 1 coin costs them 50% of what is cost for ordinary miner.That led to further centralization,making dangerous and unnatural union - big masternode owners are also the biggest miners,

- DASH mining became highly unprofitable,except if you are at the same time big masternode owner and the miner.As a response to this situation ,DASH team made decision to give even more coins to masternodes.That would make mining even more unprofitable and cause death of any POW coin.But ,in the case of DASH, mining operations are already in the hands of big masternode owners,so there is no such danger.This decision will just help them to put even more money in the pockets and make theirs grip on DASH even stronger.It is impossible that DASH team did all of that unintentionally.

To make citation from Ian Fleming Goldfinger: "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time is enemy action."

Your whole masternodes running miners conspiracy is a bit comical. Again, what advantage does a masternode owner have to mine DASH over anyone else? Why can't a XMR miner mine DASH just as well? You're saying to control DASH? What does that even mean? Why not buy DASH on the open market or OTC for cheaper?



Historical data about masternode number shows complete correlation with dumping of some masternodes coins during bull run and rebuying after it. It cant be more obvious,but if you choose not to see than it is your choice and talking about it becomes futile.

There is no assumptions.Masternodes number fell just 12% during bull run,it is a fact. 12% owners sold coins,others 88% not. Your assumtion is that 88% are some unbeliveably stupid, crazy rich people who are so stupid not to profit when price of coins went up 100x and more? Maybe there are few of them,but overwhelming majority of people which made a lot of money are far from stupid.

I dont know if it is a conspiracy or not,but I know that DASH mining is deeply unprofitable for a long time if you are not running masternodes too. Also,all decisions by DASH team were in direction to remove ordinary miners from mining DASH and despite mining is so unprofitable ,they are continuing with decisions which will make it even more unprofitable. That is no make any sense,except if they are directly supporting system where big masternode owners take control over mining too.

What masternode owner have to mine DASH over anyone else? - Well, everything. Large masternode owner will take complete control of coin by controling masternode network and mining operations.He can mine coins below any price(50% lesser) ordinary miners can. On such way he can manipulate market with no problem,by selling coins to push price almost to 0 or to stop selling if he wants to push price up.He has not to fear what will miners do during the pump,when will they dump theirs coins or save them. He also has not to fear from pushing price too low, which can cause miners to shutdown mining and endanger network.Due to reward of 50% free coins with 0 cost and mining control,he can dump coins as long as he wants,until he sinks all other investors and miners, by pushing price to almost 0,forcing them to sell with huge losses.

- Controling masternode network,

- Controling mining operations and supply

From two things above, control of market ,price and coin itself by removing any competition and uncertainity from miners or investors side is a inevitable consequence.

That is also reason why we have not institutional investors in DASH.They are not stupid people to invest serious money without prior due diligence of the coin.

Only problem is to push demand by finding enough fools to buy 0 cost coins for a price as high as possible,when the time of pump comes and dump hard on them later.That is why we have so much false positive news and false positive opinions on forums, trying to make hype as big as possible, counting on stupidity and greed of unexperienced newbies.



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November 12, 2020, 01:08:48 PM


That is also reason why we have not institutional investors in DASH.They are not stupid people to invest serious money without prior due diligence of the coin.

Excellent post. And see here for quantified examples of what he's talking about.
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November 12, 2020, 02:03:29 PM
Last edit: November 12, 2020, 03:15:25 PM by qwizzie

Such overwhelming support from miners for v0.16.0 (which includes the blockreward allocation change to improve Dash Store of Value and address our problem with Dash Circulating Supply
still having a relatively high inflation percentage coming years).


Source : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html (V16.0 Adoption)

100% support, does that not just warm your heart ? It sure warms mine  Grin Also it does not happen that often, that miners update faster then masternode operators.
Talking about masternode operators, we currently have 79.3% of the masternodes on latest version and the total number of active masternodes are still pretty close to ATH (4979 of 5007).    


Source :

https://www.dashninja.pl/deterministic-masternodes.html
http://178.254.23.111/~pub/masternode_count.png



Pretty soon we will be one, once more. Without any unintentional forks like with Ethereum today (which endangered user funds, took down a majority of DeFi applications and caused Binance to pause Ethereum trading)  
Link : https://www.coindesk.com/ethereums-hard-fork-disruption

Soft/Hard Forks vs. 'Sporks': Evan Duffield Explains How Dash is Different
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp-ebgbgK-M
Released Nov 2, 2016 (time sure flies by fast and a lot has changed since then, but the Dash sporks in essence have remained pretty much the same)



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Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 12, 2020, 10:25:31 PM

Historical data about masternode number shows complete correlation with dumping of some masternodes coins during bull run and rebuying after it. It cant be more obvious,but if you choose not to see than it is your choice and talking about it becomes futile.

There is no assumptions.Masternodes number fell just 12% during bull run,it is a fact. 12% owners sold coins,others 88% not. Your assumtion is that 88% are some unbeliveably stupid, crazy rich people who are so stupid not to profit when price of coins went up 100x and more? Maybe there are few of them,but overwhelming majority of people which made a lot of money are far from stupid.

I dont know if it is a conspiracy or not,but I know that DASH mining is deeply unprofitable for a long time if you are not running masternodes too. Also,all decisions by DASH team were in direction to remove ordinary miners from mining DASH and despite mining is so unprofitable ,they are continuing with decisions which will make it even more unprofitable. That is no make any sense,except if they are directly supporting system where big masternode owners take control over mining too.

What masternode owner have to mine DASH over anyone else? - Well, everything. Large masternode owner will take complete control of coin by controling masternode network and mining operations.He can mine coins below any price(50% lesser) ordinary miners can. On such way he can manipulate market with no problem,by selling coins to push price almost to 0 or to stop selling if he wants to push price up.He has not to fear what will miners do during the pump,when will they dump theirs coins or save them. He also has not to fear from pushing price too low, which can cause miners to shutdown mining and endanger network.Due to reward of 50% free coins with 0 cost and mining control,he can dump coins as long as he wants,until he sinks all other investors and miners, by pushing price to almost 0,forcing them to sell with huge losses.

- Controling masternode network,

- Controling mining operations and supply

From two things above, control of market ,price and coin itself by removing any competition and uncertainity from miners or investors side is a inevitable consequence.

That is also reason why we have not institutional investors in DASH.They are not stupid people to invest serious money without prior due diligence of the coin.

Only problem is to push demand by finding enough fools to buy 0 cost coins for a price as high as possible,when the time of pump comes and dump hard on them later.That is why we have so much false positive news and false positive opinions on forums, trying to make hype as big as possible, counting on stupidity and greed of unexperienced newbies.

You're talking about stuff that any whale does for any coin. You fancy yourself a detective that has somehow discovered something based on a whole lot of assumptions just so you can pat yourself on the back in pride that you are so knowledgeable. You must be rich but then why would you be here? I've made no assumptions. I didn't say 12% sold and 88% did not. This is your assumption. You also base your opinion only on net masternode count changes, not as they happen. You don't consider OTC markets. You don't even consider coins not dedicated to masternode collateral. You make assumptions that if a new masternode was setup that those 1000 coins must have just been bought and if a masternode comes down, then the 1000 coins must have been immediately sold.

I didn't call anyone stupid. You did. You called people like toknormal stupid for not selling at the last ATH. I'm more sympathetic. It's human nature to get caught up in the euphoria and not take profit when one should. Most do not do well in markets... many studies show much less than 10% have the emotional fortitude to buy when everyone is crying (hint: like now) and sell when everyone is celebrating.

You still haven't completely answered the question. Why would a masternode owner continue to mine DASH if it's not profitable? Why wouldn't they mine XMR? Why wouldn't they buy more DASH than what they could mine for cheaper? Then they could control and have even more masternodes, no? What advantage are they really gaining by also mining DASH. They already have the power to push the price lower than is affordable for a DASH miner to be profitable at. And what if your theory happens to be correct? What if some masternode owners are actually also mining and inefficiently achieving the goals you claim they are when they could do it far cheaper? What then? What does that change? You think BTC has not been manipulated by very large holders since it was created?

Institutional investors are buying DASH. There's a reason it's on Coinbase. There are public companies trading on major stock exchanges that have invested in DASH.

Although DASH is only in the top 30, it has far more worldwide exposure than many of the coins ahead of it on CMC. Time will tell but it seems to me 2021 is going to be sweet.


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November 12, 2020, 10:49:35 PM
Last edit: November 13, 2020, 03:49:33 AM by toknormal


You still haven't completely answered the question. Why would a masternode owner continue to mine DASH if it's not profitable?

Yes he did, and so did I.

The reason this is more favourable to the Dash Miner/masternode combo than, say [Other Coin Miner]/Dash Masternode combo is because it optimises Dash coin accumulation which can go towards masternodes and further reduce the effective difficulty. (In the examples below, nearly 3 nodes are acquired by the mining equipment break even point. In the non-hybrid example they're all from mining reward which turns that operation into a de-facto hybrid one anyway if they are held).

Re. this point:

And what if your theory happens to be correct? What if some masternode owners are actually also mining and inefficiently achieving the goals you claim they are when they could do it far cheaper? What then? What does that change?

What it changes is that Dash drops chronically in marketcap ranking since mining is subsidised by its own blockchain while in other (100% mined) coins it isn't subsidised at all. The entire capital that's invested in mining has to come from outside of the ecosystem which is why their blockchains are healthy while ours is atrophying by comparison.

I remind you of the quantified version since you asked for "proof" in your last post:

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November 12, 2020, 11:57:42 PM


You still haven't completely answered the question. Why would a masternode owner continue to mine DASH if it's not profitable?

Yes he did, and so did I.

The reason this is more favourable to the Dash Miner/masternode combo than, say [Other Coin Miner]/Dash Masternode combo is because it optimises Dash coin accumulation which can go towards masternodes and further reduce the effective difficulty. (In the examples below, nearly 3 nodes are acquired by the mining equipment break even point. In the non-hybrid example they're all from mining reward which turns that operation into a de-facto hybrid one anyway if they are held).

Re. this point:

And what if your theory happens to be correct? What if some masternode owners are actually also mining and inefficiently achieving the goals you claim they are when they could do it far cheaper? What then? What does that change?

What is changes is that Dash drops chronically in marketcap ranking since mining is subsidised by its own blockchain while in other (100% mined) coins it isn't subsidised at all. The entire capital that's invested in mining has to come from outside of the ecosystem which is why their blockchains are healthy while ours is atrophying by comparison.

I remind you of the quantified version since you asked for "proof" in your last post:



Has proof been provided? How come I don't see it? Can someone else besides toknormal or thunderjet vouch for what they're saying? Can a masternode owner chime in and let everyone know that they are also mining DASH?

So you're saying masternode owners that are also mining DASH has caused the DASH bear market coincidentally the same time the rest of crypto went into a bear market? Or maybe you're saying that masternode owners who also mine DASH caused the entire crypto bear market? Did these same Dash masternode owners/miners cause the 10% DASH price increase yesterday as well? What percentage of the masternode owners do you imagine are also mining DASH to cause DASH to chronically drop in marketcap rankings? By chronically dropping do mean DASH dropping to as low as what, 32nd, maybe 33rd, and now slowly climbing back up? Do you consider a stable coin backed by fiat as a better investment because it has a higher marketcap than a crypto with a lower marketcap?

Non-rhetorical question here: Are there any cryptos profitable to mine during their own bear market? DASH is still in a bear market. Almost all the POW coins you keep bringing up are not. Maybe miners understand market cycles enough to know that if they can suffer thru bear markets they'll be more than rewarded during bull markets?

Another question: Where exactly did you answer the question about why someone would do something more costly that could be done more cheaply?

PS: BTC above $16200 and LTC below 370000 satoshis now... getting closer. Toknormal, do yourself and everyone else here a favor, take profit this time...
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November 13, 2020, 01:01:12 AM

**Enter the Dash FastPass Trading Contest with Quadency and win over $7,000 in prizes! **

Trade ANY Dash pairs, on FastPass exchanges Liquid, KuCoin, HitBTC and Coinbase Pro.

*This contest will formally begin at 12:00am UTC on November 18th and conclude at 11:59pm UTC on December 7th.*

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November 13, 2020, 03:51:22 AM


Has proof been provided? How come I don't see it?

Blindness ?
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November 13, 2020, 04:53:04 AM

i hold 20 dash from 2018 and i don't think in sell, but other week i have see Binance Earn, pay 7.39% yearly (for lend my dash for 30 days) and 9.11% for lend for 60 day.
Anybody use this service, i think is really a good opportunity to have at least a minimum profit from my dash

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qwizzie
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November 13, 2020, 08:53:03 AM
Last edit: November 13, 2020, 09:15:46 AM by qwizzie

toknormal : confuses his personal assumptions about competitive mining (which he often accompany with decorative pictures), for facts. They are not. They are just assumptions that have big holes in them.
I consider his assumptions invalid and going directly against everything this Dash crypto project stands for. He made a number of negative comments about Dash, with the latest that Dash price is in a death spiral
and not in a bear market.
 
thunderjet : his posts consists of nothing more then baseless assumptions, missing any evidence that points to miners somehow also being involved with masternodes. His posts are unsubstantiated and contain little value.
He made a number of negative comments about Dash (Dash coin wealth distribution would somehow be centralized without providing any evidence, just personal opinions and assumptions).
He is not even invested in Dash (80 Dash in 2017 and sold) and stated that the Dash price is getting dumped to oblivion, due to centralization.  

The market is directly contradicting what these two persons assume about the Dash market and the Dash price. Whenever the Dash market is showing signs of moving out of the bear market, then just think of these two persons and how very wrong they really were with their market assumptions and opinions.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 13, 2020, 08:59:50 AM

Historical data about masternode number shows complete correlation with dumping of some masternodes coins during bull run and rebuying after it. It cant be more obvious,but if you choose not to see than it is your choice and talking about it becomes futile.

There is no assumptions.Masternodes number fell just 12% during bull run,it is a fact. 12% owners sold coins,others 88% not. Your assumtion is that 88% are some unbeliveably stupid, crazy rich people who are so stupid not to profit when price of coins went up 100x and more? Maybe there are few of them,but overwhelming majority of people which made a lot of money are far from stupid.

I dont know if it is a conspiracy or not,but I know that DASH mining is deeply unprofitable for a long time if you are not running masternodes too. Also,all decisions by DASH team were in direction to remove ordinary miners from mining DASH and despite mining is so unprofitable ,they are continuing with decisions which will make it even more unprofitable. That is no make any sense,except if they are directly supporting system where big masternode owners take control over mining too.

What masternode owner have to mine DASH over anyone else? - Well, everything. Large masternode owner will take complete control of coin by controling masternode network and mining operations.He can mine coins below any price(50% lesser) ordinary miners can. On such way he can manipulate market with no problem,by selling coins to push price almost to 0 or to stop selling if he wants to push price up.He has not to fear what will miners do during the pump,when will they dump theirs coins or save them. He also has not to fear from pushing price too low, which can cause miners to shutdown mining and endanger network.Due to reward of 50% free coins with 0 cost and mining control,he can dump coins as long as he wants,until he sinks all other investors and miners, by pushing price to almost 0,forcing them to sell with huge losses.

- Controling masternode network,

- Controling mining operations and supply

From two things above, control of market ,price and coin itself by removing any competition and uncertainity from miners or investors side is a inevitable consequence.

That is also reason why we have not institutional investors in DASH.They are not stupid people to invest serious money without prior due diligence of the coin.

Only problem is to push demand by finding enough fools to buy 0 cost coins for a price as high as possible,when the time of pump comes and dump hard on them later.That is why we have so much false positive news and false positive opinions on forums, trying to make hype as big as possible, counting on stupidity and greed of unexperienced newbies.

You're talking about stuff that any whale does for any coin. You fancy yourself a detective that has somehow discovered something based on a whole lot of assumptions just so you can pat yourself on the back in pride that you are so knowledgeable. You must be rich but then why would you be here? I've made no assumptions. I didn't say 12% sold and 88% did not. This is your assumption. You also base your opinion only on net masternode count changes, not as they happen. You don't consider OTC markets. You don't even consider coins not dedicated to masternode collateral. You make assumptions that if a new masternode was setup that those 1000 coins must have just been bought and if a masternode comes down, then the 1000 coins must have been immediately sold.

I didn't call anyone stupid. You did. You called people like toknormal stupid for not selling at the last ATH. I'm more sympathetic. It's human nature to get caught up in the euphoria and not take profit when one should. Most do not do well in markets... many studies show much less than 10% have the emotional fortitude to buy when everyone is crying (hint: like now) and sell when everyone is celebrating.

You still haven't completely answered the question. Why would a masternode owner continue to mine DASH if it's not profitable? Why wouldn't they mine XMR? Why wouldn't they buy more DASH than what they could mine for cheaper? Then they could control and have even more masternodes, no? What advantage are they really gaining by also mining DASH. They already have the power to push the price lower than is affordable for a DASH miner to be profitable at. And what if your theory happens to be correct? What if some masternode owners are actually also mining and inefficiently achieving the goals you claim they are when they could do it far cheaper? What then? What does that change? You think BTC has not been manipulated by very large holders since it was created?

Institutional investors are buying DASH. There's a reason it's on Coinbase. There are public companies trading on major stock exchanges that have invested in DASH.

Although DASH is only in the top 30, it has far more worldwide exposure than many of the coins ahead of it on CMC. Time will tell but it seems to me 2021 is going to be sweet.





Iam not some  "fancy detective" and only "pride" I got from mine involvement was a pile of insults.I told you - all data about masternodes are facts and if you look at chart you can see 100% time correlation between masternode numbers huge drop and bull run.Sure,same masternode owners sold theirs coins on OTC market ,so what? That did not change the fact they sold them for a huge profit during bull run.You told me that if they closed theirs masternodes,that does not mean they sold coins.So,tell me the reason why would few hundered masternode owners suddenly stopped theirs masternodes during bull run?  To stay without profit from running them and keep coins in theirs wallets in the time when price goes 100x up? Really?

About "stupid" people - Yes ,some people did not sell theirs coins during last bull run.Iam sure they regret it deeply now,but even the smartest people can make bad or stupid decisions sometimes.If you run masternode,it is different situation.You earned enough money to pay off yours investment many times,but not as much as you could if you sold coins during bull run and rebuy them later.It is more like business decision - you think that you can earn more on the long run,but only time will tell you if you are right or not. You can afford yourself some gambling if you already paid off yours investment many times.

Why would a masternode owner continue to mine DASH if it's not profitable? - It is not profitable for ordinary miners,not for them.If you are a large holder,you will want to control market as much as you can.By controling network and mining you will achieve full control of network and market.If you are not control mining ,you have to be very carefull not to endanger network with pushing the price far below miners break even point.Getting 50% of mined coins at 0 cost put you in favourite position to eliminate ordinary miners,control supply completely and push the price so low that you can crush remaining investors with ease while preserving coins network.Absolute,unlimited power.








Large holders will always want to manipulate any coin as much as they can.But if you control mining and network it is far more easier and cheaper.

I did not find any evidence that institutional investors are buying or bought DASH.Trading on Coinbase is not evidence.It would be great if it is true.


qwizzie
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November 13, 2020, 09:07:36 AM


Source : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/BINANCE:DASH-USDT?period=1d

How far will the Dash price go up, now that the Dash price is moving away from its support level and Bitcoin price ($16,245) is rising as well ?
Stay tuned and be prepared for more price volatility.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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