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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9669462 times)
afbitcoins
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November 08, 2020, 04:54:08 PM

Incidentally there has been some interesting ideas discussed on the economics channel of Tao of Satoshi's dash nation. The idea being proposed at some length is for Dash Investment Foundation to start aggressively buying gold and bitcoin. Basically as much as it can.

When Dash ends up with a huge reserve (just as central banks do) this would be held offchain but  still support the value of dash. It would create an ever growing floor to the price that dash can fall to.

I am interested in any thought toknormal might have on this
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November 08, 2020, 05:10:51 PM
Last edit: November 08, 2020, 06:42:22 PM by qwizzie


With regards to Dash price, does this look like a death spiral to anyone ?


It looks like a classic bubble


Lets not forget afbitcoins already sold a very large portion of his Dash. So he is not really all that invested in Dash anymore. I am not sure why he still feels a need to post so negatively about Dash,
when he is not significantly invested in Dash anymore.


A) I don't post negatively about Dash. I will post negatively about Ryan's proposal to improve store of value. There is a huge difference. Find some other aspect of Dash other than this proposal that I post negatively about, theres a challenge for you.  
The portion of my Dash I still have invested bears no significance in what or where I choose to post.

B) Also your entire point has nothing to do with anything I argue instead designed to discredit me in someway. You punch below the belt wormtongue

If the plan is to keep discussing Ryan's proposal to improve Dash store of value, when that has already been discussed, voted upon, approved by masternode operators and currently getting implemented
on the Dash network through v0.16.0.1 then you don't really add much value to this forum. But by all means continue with your posts, even though they are posts that just show you got stuck in the past,
unable to move forward.. at least they keep you busy.

Miners who are accepting the blockreward allocation change (Ryan's Proposal), by signalling readiness for update v0.16.0 in their mined blocks :  


Source : http://178.254.23.111/~pub/Dash/Dash_Info.html (V16.0 Adoption)





Also a little news flash : if Bitcoin price is rising, Altcoins prices have a tendency to loose value against Bitcoin. That is to be expected, nothing shocking about that.
That does not necessarily mean things look bad for Dash or for Altcoins in general. It gets initially balanced on the fiat side and at some point the Altcoins will recover
on the btc side as well (depending on their cycle).

Bitcoin : $15,611
Will Bitcoin price hit $16,000 and flip it into support ? Stay tuned...


Source : https://cryptowat.ch/charts/BINANCE:BTC-USDT?period=1w

Focusing on DASH/BTC in times like these (with Bitcoin in a bullish territory and its price very volatile) is pretty pointless and overly negative if you ask me, but who am i to judge.
Keep them 4H time interval DASH/BTC charts coming afbitcoins, i am sure day traders will find them interesting.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
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November 08, 2020, 05:12:12 PM

Incidentally there has been some interesting ideas discussed on the economics channel of Tao of Satoshi's dash nation. The idea being proposed at some length is for Dash Investment Foundation to start aggressively buying gold and bitcoin. Basically as much as it can.

When Dash ends up with a huge reserve (just as central banks do) this would be held offchain but  still support the value of dash. It would create an ever growing floor to the price that dash can fall to.

I am interested in any thought toknormal might have on this


I have been proposing this since the day I saw how money was thrown in hiring supersonic planes, or paying trips to Max Keiser in the USA, in addition to throwing thousands of Dash in Africa and South America so that they are instantly exchanged for BTC or dollars.

May the crypto god hear these prayers.

Put all that budget in gold, silver, BTC, Google, Biogen, or potatoes, but please, stop throwing thousands of Dash into the trash every month.
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November 08, 2020, 06:11:40 PM

dash updates new bottom to btc daily, but is that okay for you? Do you take everyone for idiots? What are you getting paid here in dash or bitcoin?

With regards to Dash price, does this look like a death spiral to anyone ?


It looks like a classic bubble


Lets not forget afbitcoins already sold a very large portion of his Dash. So he is not really all that invested in Dash anymore. I am not sure why he still feels a need to post so negatively about Dash,
when he is not significantly invested in Dash anymore.


A) I don't post negatively about Dash. I will post negatively about Ryan's proposal to improve store of value. There is a huge difference. Find some other aspect of Dash other than this proposal that I post negatively about, theres a challenge for you.  
The portion of my Dash I still have invested bears no significance in what or where I choose to post.

B) Also your entire point has nothing to do with anything I argue instead designed to discredit me in someway. You punch below the belt wormtongue

If the plan is to keep discussing Ryan's proposal to improve Dash store of value, when that has already been discussed, voted upon, approved by masternode operators and currently getting implemented
on the Dash network through v0.16.0.1 then you don't really add much value to this forum. But by all means continue with your posts, even though they are posts that just show you got stuck in the past,
unable to move forward.. at least they keep you busy.

https://i.imgur.com/GhfxPtu.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/C2czHAQ.jpg



Also a little news flash : if Bitcoin price is rising, Altcoins prices loose value against Bitcoin. That is to be expected, nothing shocking about that.
That does not necessarily mean things look bad for Dash or for Altcoins in general. It gets initially balanced on the fiat side and at some point the Altcoins will recover
on the btc side as well.

Bitcoin : $15611

Focusing on DASH/BTC in times like these (with Bitcoin in a bullish territory and very volatile) is pretty pointless and overly negative if you ask me, but who am i to judge.
Keep them 4H time interval DASH/BTC charts coming, i am sure day traders will find them interesting.
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November 08, 2020, 07:20:03 PM


Incidentally there has been some interesting ideas discussed on the economics channel of Tao of Satoshi's dash nation. The idea being proposed at some length is for Dash Investment Foundation to start aggressively buying gold and bitcoin. Basically as much as it can.

When Dash ends up with a huge reserve (just as central banks do) this would be held offchain but  still support the value of dash. It would create an ever growing floor to the price that dash can fall to.

I am interested in any thought toknormal might have on this

While this is interesting, it doesn't really address the main problem. DIF could buy all the gold it likes but there's no way for a regular investor to access that value. Dash "tokens" are not gold-backed bonds, they're still mined.

As an example of the problem we have at the moment, imagine someone put in a proposal to Dash DAO to receive HALF the entire new coin supply. You'd want something for it wouldn't you ? You'd want to know how it was worth directing that supply to a proposer instead of having it mined. If the proposer simply took the money and "ran" we'd be not very highly regarded by the market, nor well valued.

Yet that's exactly the situation we're in with masternodes. Masternodes are not delivering any kind of return for that allocation, they're simply holding coins - which happens to be what every other holder in every other coin is doing except they need to have obtained theirs through competitive mining (or have bought them from someone who did) which (ironically !) does actually serve the network in a way that masternode rewards don't.

This is what's drilling a huge hole in the valuation on a chronic basis. Buying gold with a slither of allocation that doesn't come from this haemorrhaging capital doesn't do anything to shore it up IMO.
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November 08, 2020, 08:16:09 PM


Sure anything is possible, even a death spiral, but Cloakcoin and Obyte never came close to Dash's success. Did either of these actually develop something new and aren't they both effectively abandoned now? Wasn't Obyte a free airdrop to BTC holders? And did Cloakcoin's ATH even reach Dash's low in this bear market?


Cloakcoin didn't match the success of darkcoin but came at a similar time. It was a proof of stake coin. You might say another example of proof of stake failing to store value. OByte was a rival to iota and top 20 at one point. Iota still top 30 roughly. OByte dropped out the top 200 last time I looked. Both DAG instead of blockchain. Byteball had really good features that were ready to use. Some of its supply was airdrop to bitcoin holders. The developers then played god and started chopping and changing the rules about who would receive and when. They thought they would attract more investors that way, cheered on by the community. The coin all but died. A warning that what seems good to the community and devs might not be.

The point of similarity  with OByte as I am experiencing it, is the way the community refuse to acknowledge problems exist even as the coin drops ever lower in ranking.

There's a difference here... both OByte and Cloakcoin dropped massively in the bear market and people gave up. Dash isn't doing as well as you expect but it's still in the top 30 and higher when not counting fiat-backed tokens... and while many of the community might have given up, the devs are still well funded and advancing the technology.


At least PPC developed something new and after being abandoned has a development team behind them again. You think Dash was abandoned?


I think Dash abandoned? No! I never said or hinted at that. You making shit up here. Peercoin being abandoned came after its fall to insignificance not before I would guess. I dont' follow peercoin. But even with new developers it will still have a flawed economic model I presume. Therefore it won't attract value. Dash can masquerade as a full proof of work coin, and might get away with it to an extent and do a litecoin. I hope so because that is better than spiral of death. Its not what I aimed for.

Relax. It was a question, not sure how you took that as an accusation. Yes once PPC was abandoned by the devs during the bear market before last, the community more or less gave up too. Which in turn made sure it couldn't naturally recover during the subsequent bull run. Perhaps if BTC reverses course and enters a new bear market for another year or two, Dash and many other alts would be eventually abandoned too. For now development is still going strong and it's highly unlikely Dash will be ignored if the bull market is in full swing among altcoins by next year.


Anyways, I've made my case, Dash will likely follow LTC's path (Feb-Mar 2017 and even now to a certain extent). Now we just wait to see. Place your bets by either buying, selling or holding...

And stop putting much of any weight on the whole store of value thing. Nothing has materially changed with Dash's allocation split between masternodes and miners since well back before the last bull market. This is the fact that no one has even attempted to explain away. If anything has changed, it's reduced inflation and less rewards to both masternodes and miners this time around which should act as positive on the price.


No one has tried to explain! For real?  OK I'll try to explain (again) In those days the effect of the reward split being too heavy for masternode owners was hidden because the masternode network was growing. It was then hidden by large speculative moves hedging the bitcoin /bcash fork with Dash. That does not mean it wasn't there.  If Ryans proposal will help why is there not investors front running it? Today we can't count on masternode growing, it is already high. We can't count on a bitcoin fork helping dash to that extent. We can only hope suddenly the market falls in love with dash platform and nice usernames, assuming those do come along. Or some other unforseen event. Dash has payments. It needs value.

Majority of explanations thus far have come across pretending Dash somehow drastically changed its reward allocation and that's why it's doomed for failure. The idea that the masternode count is saturated has been presented but not as the main cause and I have more than once shown using math that the network could easily add 1000 or more masternodes to reach the same percentage of coins used as collateral as during the last bull run. Add to that new solutions like StakeHound and it should be even easier. The btc/bch drama likely caused the initial pump in Feb 2017 to be as high as it was but I don't put much stock in it beyond that.

I can name 2 things which hurt Dash's price during the bear market... 1) the whole Evan Duffield drama and 2) the confusion and alienation caused by whether Dash a privacy coin or not. These hit Dash hard in the "2nd" bear market after the mid 2019 fake crypto pump. Yet even so, after even more Dash holders capitulated, it looks to me that Dash is now on its way to recovery.
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November 08, 2020, 09:09:17 PM
Last edit: November 08, 2020, 09:34:19 PM by afbitcoins


Incidentally there has been some interesting ideas discussed on the economics channel of Tao of Satoshi's dash nation. The idea being proposed at some length is for Dash Investment Foundation to start aggressively buying gold and bitcoin. Basically as much as it can.

When Dash ends up with a huge reserve (just as central banks do) this would be held offchain but  still support the value of dash. It would create an ever growing floor to the price that dash can fall to.

I am interested in any thought toknormal might have on this

While this is interesting, it doesn't really address the main problem. DIF could buy all the gold it likes but there's no way for a regular investor to access that value. Dash "tokens" are not gold-backed bonds, they're still mined.

As an example of the problem we have at the moment, imagine someone put in a proposal to Dash DAO to receive HALF the entire new coin supply. You'd want something for it wouldn't you ? You'd want to know how it was worth directing that supply to a proposer instead of having it mined. If the proposer simply took the money and "ran" we'd be not very highly regarded by the market, nor well valued.

Yet that's exactly the situation we're in with masternodes. Masternodes are not delivering any kind of return for that allocation, they're simply holding coins - which happens to be what every other holder in every other coin is doing except they need to have obtained theirs through competitive mining (or have bought them from someone who did) which (ironically !) does actually serve the network in a way that masternode rewards don't.

This is what's drilling a huge hole in the valuation on a chronic basis. Buying gold with a slither of allocation that doesn't come from this haemorrhaging capital doesn't do anything to shore it up IMO.

I understand that about what you consider the main problem. However if the dash network owned say 10 billion worth of assets, like gold, silver and bitcoin. These give value to the network. Dash owns them. Yes they are sitting not doing anything, no regular investor accesses that value. But regular investors know that Dash at absolute minimum owns that much value. It would be almost impossible to push the value of dash marketcap below 10 billion.

Dash could improve store of value with a 2 pronged approach.

1) Allocate as much new supply as possible to the miners, so that the value feeds back into the chain.

2) Allocate as much treasury funds as possible into acquiring reserves of hard monetary assets such as gold (just as central banks do) and forgetting or minimising the attempts to fund startups or spend on marketing or giving to max keiser which are very wasteful.

This would direct spare new supply to store of value and spare treasury to store of value. Dash is unique in this position to do it. Dash with massive reserves would start to beat bitcoin in the store of value realm.

Its like Dash has a winning lottery ticket in its hands but thinks its just a spare bit of paper, doesn't know what to do with it.
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November 08, 2020, 09:23:26 PM

Are masternodes still stalled in their upgrades ? What are they waiting for ?




Miners who are accepting the blockreward allocation change (Ryan's Proposal), by signalling readiness for update v0.16.0 in their mined blocks :  





Yes it seems inevitable this upgrade will happen. Unlike you I see no evidence this is anything good for Dash. Selling was a natural response to this from my viewpoint. Its a shame
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November 08, 2020, 09:35:15 PM

Dash could improve store of value with a 2 pronged approach.

1) Allocate as much new supply as possible to the miners, so that the value feeds back into the chain.

2) Allocate as much treasury funds as possible into acquiring reserves of hard monetary assets such as gold (just as central banks do) and forgetting or minimising the attempts to fund startups or spend on marketing or giving to max keiser which are very wasteful.

This would direct spare new supply to store of value and spare treasury to store of value. Dash is unique in this position to do it. Dash with massive reserves would start to beat bitcoin in the store of value realm.

Its like Dash has a winning lottery ticket in its hands but thinks its just a spare bit of paper, doesn't know what to do with it.

I sure would vote for that.
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November 08, 2020, 09:41:48 PM
Last edit: November 08, 2020, 09:53:02 PM by qwizzie

Are masternodes still stalled in their upgrades ? What are they waiting for ?

This could be a reason : https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/masternode-me-not-upgraded-to-16.50845/#post-223957

Percentage of active masternodes on v0.16.0.1 : 78,9%
Percentage of active masternodes on v0.15.0    : 18,6%

At this rate (0,1% per day), it could take a few weeks to hit 80%.
Maybe this tweet from the DashPay twitter account today, will catch the attention of those masternode operators not yet updated to v0.16.0.1 :


The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 08, 2020, 09:58:59 PM


I have a partial MN with Moocow and payments continue to come in but he has been unresponsive for years.    Been trying for so long to get my dash back but he has never responded.    Each payment I get just helps a little to repair the loss.   Recouped 20% of the initial amount so far,   seems like this update will kill that stream..    Not sure what happened to Moocow but this is the risk of using a 3rd party.




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November 08, 2020, 10:02:28 PM


I have a partial MN with Moocow and payments continue to come in but he has been unresponsive for years.    Been trying for so long to get my dash back but he has never responded.    Each payment I get just helps a little to repair the loss.   Recouped 20% of the initial amount so far,   seems like this update will kill that stream..    Not sure what happened to Moocow but this is the risk of using a 3rd party.

Sorry to hear that. Looks like he changed email address & phone number and left everything on auto pilot. Very strange.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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November 08, 2020, 10:10:16 PM


I have a partial MN with Moocow and payments continue to come in but he has been unresponsive for years.    Been trying for so long to get my dash back but he has never responded.    Each payment I get just helps a little to repair the loss.   Recouped 20% of the initial amount so far,   seems like this update will kill that stream..    Not sure what happened to Moocow but this is the risk of using a 3rd party.

Sorry to hear that. Looks like he changed email address & phone number and left everything on auto pilot. Very strange.

Here is the MN incase anyone wants to track if it gets updated or anything...

https://bitinfocharts.com/dash/address/Xjvh5hH9T2VZuByuA3qMV2CFp8Swbx5T5f

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November 09, 2020, 09:55:12 AM

Here is the MN incase anyone wants to track if it gets updated or anything...

https://bitinfocharts.com/dash/address/Xjvh5hH9T2VZuByuA3qMV2CFp8Swbx5T5f
Good to see you around @WastedLTC.
Indeed when spork21 is activated, sooner than later all non v16 MNs will go into pose_ban status.
Updated MNs will get the reward each ~7.2 days but the shares you get not anymore till those are updated and rebirthed.
Hope he will appear one day and be active again as it was before.

BE SMART, USE DASH ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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November 09, 2020, 10:19:25 AM
Last edit: November 09, 2020, 11:00:12 AM by qwizzie
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Privacy Coin GRIN Is Victim of 51% Attack
https://www.coindesk.com/privacy-coin-grin-is-victim-of-51-attack

Quote
Privacy-centric blockchain network Grin (GRIN) is undergoing a 51% attack, an event in which a miner (or miners) acquires more than 50% of the network’s mining hash power and takes control,
according to a notice at the bottom of the Grin protocol’s website.  

According to 2miners.com, which is responsible for 19.1% of the current hashpower on Grin, the unknown miner(s) grabbed control of 57.4% of the network's hashpower.
While the attack is underway, the protocol is warning users to wait for extra confirmations on transactions for payment finality.

Good thing that Dash is protected against 51% attacks, thanks to ChainLocks.
Link : https://cointelegraph.com/news/raising-the-security-bar-dash-claims-a-51-attack-is-not-enough

I wonder which privacy coin will be next, Monero ? Zcash ? Verge ? (attacked several times already)
Or will it be PoW coins like Ethereum Classic ? (attacked 3 times) or Vertcoin (attacked 2 times) or Bitcoin forks like Bitcoin Gold (attacked 3 times, 2 of them successful)

Link : https://www.coindesk.com/tag/51-attack

The grim reality is that the number of 51% attacks on Altcoins continue to rise, during this long and brutal Altcoins bear market.
Posing a direct security risk to PoW networks (although some seem more at risk then others).

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
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November 09, 2020, 12:04:13 PM

Yes, everyone around is bad, only this does not affect the price of the best coin. Every day she actively flies in a spiral, breaking through a new bottom.
Privacy Coin GRIN Is Victim of 51% Attack
https://www.coindesk.com/privacy-coin-grin-is-victim-of-51-attack

Quote
Privacy-centric blockchain network Grin (GRIN) is undergoing a 51% attack, an event in which a miner (or miners) acquires more than 50% of the network’s mining hash power and takes control,
according to a notice at the bottom of the Grin protocol’s website.  

According to 2miners.com, which is responsible for 19.1% of the current hashpower on Grin, the unknown miner(s) grabbed control of 57.4% of the network's hashpower.
While the attack is underway, the protocol is warning users to wait for extra confirmations on transactions for payment finality.

Good thing that Dash is protected against 51% attacks, thanks to ChainLocks.
Link : https://cointelegraph.com/news/raising-the-security-bar-dash-claims-a-51-attack-is-not-enough

I wonder which privacy coin will be next, Monero ? Zcash ? Verge ? (attacked several times already)
Or will it be PoW coins like Ethereum Classic ? (attacked 3 times) or Vertcoin (attacked 2 times) or Bitcoin forks like Bitcoin Gold (attacked 3 times, 2 of them successful)

Link : https://www.coindesk.com/tag/51-attack

The grim reality is that the number of 51% attacks on Altcoins continue to rise, during this long and brutal Altcoins bear market.
Posing a direct security risk to PoW networks (although some seem more at risk then others).

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November 09, 2020, 12:07:32 PM
Last edit: November 09, 2020, 02:09:55 PM by toknormal

Good thing that Dash is protected against 51% attacks, thanks to ChainLocks.

Although it's nice backstop to have if the hashrate drops away (or if the protocol intentionally mitigates it) I think some of this community doesn't quite get the idea behind mined crypto-assets.

The whole POINT is that it gets hacked.

That's its protection against "hacking" - the current protocol is simply the last biggest "hack" that succeeded. It's a "bring it on" type of logic. That gives miners a strong incentive to apply hashrate to the chain and aligns the interests of the holder with those of the hackers (because by "attacking" the chain they are also "defending" it). It creates a virtuous cycle that resolves the conflict between monetary security and network security.

Contrast this with the approach that tries to mitigate hashrate because it doesn't value it:

In that case, we see hashrate as a potential threat and so we devise ways (like chainlocks) that de-incentivise competitive mining. That in turn reduces competition for the next block which feeds back to the price in the secondary market and a viscous cycle is set up instead of a virtuous one. Monetary security is now in conflict with network security because the former has to be compromised to pay for the latter.

This type of approach would be more appropriate if we were trying to create a payments network that was very cheap to maintain. i.e. where the "hashrate" was a cost to the network rather than an investment IN the network. It would be the type of network that Mastercard would create if they wanted to decentralise their messaging system.

But the problem with that type of network is that it can't store value. By making it cost less you're simultaneously pushing away investment in it (because investment is seen as a "cost" in the protocol's view).

This is the flaw in thinking we have currently informing our protocol. It's been thought out according to the priorities of creating a cheap-to-run decentralised secure messaging system instead of a high-investment store-of-value token. This is what needs to be addressed and revised IMO.

We need one of these pronto:


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November 09, 2020, 02:46:19 PM

You know how that old saying goes... "Where there is a will there is a way"

Somebody somewhere will always be looking to exploit any weakness if not to make a buck for themselves then at least to make a name for themselves. The grim reality you stated is indeed a fact that has not gone unnoticed, 51% attacks are not going to end soon and too many altcoins are at risk.

At least DASH has one less thing to worry about.


Privacy Coin GRIN Is Victim of 51% Attack
https://www.coindesk.com/privacy-coin-grin-is-victim-of-51-attack

Quote
Privacy-centric blockchain network Grin (GRIN) is undergoing a 51% attack, an event in which a miner (or miners) acquires more than 50% of the network’s mining hash power and takes control,
according to a notice at the bottom of the Grin protocol’s website.  

According to 2miners.com, which is responsible for 19.1% of the current hashpower on Grin, the unknown miner(s) grabbed control of 57.4% of the network's hashpower.
While the attack is underway, the protocol is warning users to wait for extra confirmations on transactions for payment finality.

Good thing that Dash is protected against 51% attacks, thanks to ChainLocks.
Link : https://cointelegraph.com/news/raising-the-security-bar-dash-claims-a-51-attack-is-not-enough

I wonder which privacy coin will be next, Monero ? Zcash ? Verge ? (attacked several times already)
Or will it be PoW coins like Ethereum Classic ? (attacked 3 times) or Vertcoin (attacked 2 times) or Bitcoin forks like Bitcoin Gold (attacked 3 times, 2 of them successful)

Link : https://www.coindesk.com/tag/51-attack

The grim reality is that the number of 51% attacks on Altcoins continue to rise, during this long and brutal Altcoins bear market.
Posing a direct security risk to PoW networks (although some seem more at risk then others).


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jdmcg
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November 09, 2020, 09:47:09 PM

Good thing that Dash is protected against 51% attacks, thanks to ChainLocks.

Although it's nice backstop to have if the hashrate drops away (or if the protocol intentionally mitigates it) I think some of this community doesn't quite get the idea behind mined crypto-assets.

The whole POINT is that it gets hacked.

That's its protection against "hacking" - the current protocol is simply the last biggest "hack" that succeeded. It's a "bring it on" type of logic. That gives miners a strong incentive to apply hashrate to the chain and aligns the interests of the holder with those of the hackers (because by "attacking" the chain they are also "defending" it). It creates a virtuous cycle that resolves the conflict between monetary security and network security.

Contrast this with the approach that tries to mitigate hashrate because it doesn't value it:

In that case, we see hashrate as a potential threat and so we devise ways (like chainlocks) that de-incentivise competitive mining. That in turn reduces competition for the next block which feeds back to the price in the secondary market and a viscous cycle is set up instead of a virtuous one. Monetary security is now in conflict with network security because the former has to be compromised to pay for the latter.

You're actually arguing that Dash's ChainLocks are bad and that 51% attacks are good? I mean really?

Tell that to Coinbase that lost a significant amount from successful ETC 51% attacks or users who have to wait for 200+ confirmations on deposits.

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November 09, 2020, 11:11:16 PM
Last edit: November 10, 2020, 08:27:18 AM by qwizzie

Good thing that Dash is protected against 51% attacks, thanks to ChainLocks.

Although it's nice backstop to have if the hashrate drops away (or if the protocol intentionally mitigates it) I think some of this community doesn't quite get the idea behind mined crypto-assets.

The whole POINT is that it gets hacked.

That's its protection against "hacking" - the current protocol is simply the last biggest "hack" that succeeded. It's a "bring it on" type of logic. That gives miners a strong incentive to apply hashrate to the chain and aligns the interests of the holder with those of the hackers (because by "attacking" the chain they are also "defending" it). It creates a virtuous cycle that resolves the conflict between monetary security and network security.

Contrast this with the approach that tries to mitigate hashrate because it doesn't value it:

In that case, we see hashrate as a potential threat and so we devise ways (like chainlocks) that de-incentivise competitive mining. That in turn reduces competition for the next block which feeds back to the price in the secondary market and a viscous cycle is set up instead of a virtuous one. Monetary security is now in conflict with network security because the former has to be compromised to pay for the latter.

You're actually arguing that Dash's ChainLocks are bad and that 51% attacks are good? I mean really?

Tell that to Coinbase that lost a significant amount from successful ETC 51% attacks or users who have to wait for 200+ confirmations on deposits.



It is indeed a very strange point to make from toknormal. Just think about the Hash Wars between Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin SV, causing Bitcoin Cash to implement a 10 blocks checkpoint system,
so that it can protect itself against Bitcoin SV and its 51% attacks. There is no 'bring it on' type of logic there, there is a 'lets prevent that shit from happening' type of logic. Unless you are in favor of Bitcoin SV,
then i imagine a 'bring it on' type of logic would be advocated and promoted.

Dash ChainLocks is in its essence also a check system, preventing deep level re-organisation of its blockchain and placing protection on its longest chain, by using a verifiable network-wide measurement/vote
of the “first-seen” rule. Personally i think Dash ChainLocks does a better job at providing protection against 51% attacks, then Bitcoin Cash 10 blocks checkpoint system, as the last one has a few weak points : https://blog.bitmex.com/bitcoin-cash-abcs-rolling-10-block-checkpoints/    

I think what toknormal is doing is to just abuse any post from others in here, to latch his competitive mining theory unto. Even if it does not really fit.

The fastest way to lose money, is to listen to people that present their personal assumptions as facts
Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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