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Author Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin"  (Read 1149911 times)
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SuperClam (OP)
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May 05, 2015, 11:19:33 PM
 #2961

These are cute names (actually I don't understand how a "chain" is clammy)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=giVMOdMTUNM
lol don't kill me
I guess I appreciate the effort, but I'm in a library with no headphones so videos aren't going to cut it Smiley  Let me know if there's a succinct-textual answer somewhere.  FWIW, I can try to watch videos later on at home.
Here's a slightly off-topic rant: do you guys ever get annoyed when you're looking for some simple answer to a question and the only thing you can find are videos that you know are going to have a rambly introduction and no way to search on the page for exactly what you're looking for (because it isn't a page!) etc?  Ok, end of my rant!
Proof-of-Pearl was a cute name for our lottery which was removed long ago. It was basically just random block rewards aka superblocks or whatever you'd like to call it but it didn't work out well.   
Proof-of-Chain is in reference to how clams were originally distributed, sending out to all the btc / ltc and doge addresses that had a balance last may.
Hope that helps Smiley
Yup, that answers it, thanks!

A good catch.
The OP post title has been updated to reflect the lack of "Proof-Of-Pearl".
Not sure how that wasn't noticed sooner - like, 9 months ago sooner  Cry

In response to your questions:

Proof-Of-Chain, as xploited correctly mentioned, refers to the method of the initial distribution of the CLAM money supply.
Every single BTC, LTC and DOGE address that held a balance above dust around May, 14th (2014) received an equal share of the initial money supply.  Essentially, the entire initial money supply was given away to BTC, LTC and DOGE holders.

Proof-Of-Working-Stake refers to the CLAM's unique implementation of Proof-Of-Stake.  Proof-Of-Stake conventionally provides reward to staking users in proportion to the age of the coins they stake with.  This results in what essentially operates like "interest".  It also, however, removes the incentive for users to stake consistently and secure the network.  There is no incentive to stake now, as opposed to later, if the reward for doing so will simply accrue until that user chooses to stake and claim it.  In CLAM, the reward for staking is a static 1 CLAM per staked block.  This reward, much like proof-of-work, likely aligns incentives to stake with the benefit to the network of persistent competition for blocks.  In addition, as dooglus mentioned, the CLAM network does not provide a benefit to users based on the age of a given pile of coins (output).  This suggests that a CLAM on the network is more akin to a Proof-Of-Work miner.  A CLAM represents something somewhat similar to a unit of hashing power in a Proof-Of-Work network.  If you do not stake (turn on your miner), you do not have the opportunity to be rewarded for securing the network.



I hope that was helpful Grin

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
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Even in the event that an attacker gains more than 50% of the network's computational power, only transactions sent by the attacker could be reversed or double-spent. The network would not be destroyed.
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May 06, 2015, 02:33:54 PM
 #2962

I updated bootstrap.dat again for people needing to get a CLAM client synced quicker:

I made an updated bootstrap.dat file for people having trouble syncing their client.

It goes up to block 455555 which was staked on Wed May  6 14:17:52 2015.

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May 06, 2015, 03:55:03 PM
 #2963

I see in the thread topic "proof-of-chain", "proof-of-pearl".  These are cute names (actually I don't understand how a "chain" is clammy), but I ask myself, are these simply renamed "proof-of-work", "proof-of-stake", or is there something more that I should understand?

Thanks again tspacepilot, I also changed the website to make the different between proof-of-stake and proof-of-working-stake more clear. And thanks superclam for making it possible to cut and paste a good description!

http://clamclient.com/#/equal-distribution/

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May 06, 2015, 08:35:44 PM
 #2964

I see in the thread topic "proof-of-chain", "proof-of-pearl".  These are cute names (actually I don't understand how a "chain" is clammy), but I ask myself, are these simply renamed "proof-of-work", "proof-of-stake", or is there something more that I should understand?

Thanks again tspacepilot, I also changed the website to make the different between proof-of-stake and proof-of-working-stake more clear. And thanks superclam for making it possible to cut and paste a good description!

http://clamclient.com/#/equal-distribution/

Glad I asked a question which helped Smiley  Thanks to you guys above for the answers.  I'm not too into altcoins anymore but I appreciate the friendliness of folks in this thread (in opposition to some other threads on altcoins that i've visited which are either "be a cheerleader here or GTFO" places).
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May 06, 2015, 08:55:46 PM
 #2965

Glad I asked a question which helped Smiley  Thanks to you guys above for the answers.  I'm not too into altcoins anymore but I appreciate the friendliness of folks in this thread (in opposition to some other threads on altcoins that i've visited which are either "be a cheerleader here or GTFO" places).

I think we'd rather make the coin something worth cheerleading for than insist that you like-it-or-lump-it...

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May 06, 2015, 09:11:24 PM
 #2966

I want someone to help me with integrating Clams to a poker software called Poker Mavens.
Poker Mavens have their own API and I can give more information if you are interested in this.

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May 07, 2015, 12:46:23 AM
 #2967

These are cute names (actually I don't understand how a "chain" is clammy)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=giVMOdMTUNM
lol don't kill me
I guess I appreciate the effort, but I'm in a library with no headphones so videos aren't going to cut it Smiley  Let me know if there's a succinct-textual answer somewhere.  FWIW, I can try to watch videos later on at home.
Here's a slightly off-topic rant: do you guys ever get annoyed when you're looking for some simple answer to a question and the only thing you can find are videos that you know are going to have a rambly introduction and no way to search on the page for exactly what you're looking for (because it isn't a page!) etc?  Ok, end of my rant!
Proof-of-Pearl was a cute name for our lottery which was removed long ago. It was basically just random block rewards aka superblocks or whatever you'd like to call it but it didn't work out well.   
Proof-of-Chain is in reference to how clams were originally distributed, sending out to all the btc / ltc and doge addresses that had a balance last may.
Hope that helps Smiley
Yup, that answers it, thanks!

A good catch.
The OP post title has been updated to reflect the lack of "Proof-Of-Pearl".
Not sure how that wasn't noticed sooner - like, 9 months ago sooner  Cry

In response to your questions:

Proof-Of-Chain, as xploited correctly mentioned, refers to the method of the initial distribution of the CLAM money supply.
Every single BTC, LTC and DOGE address that held a balance above dust around May, 14th (2014) received an equal share of the initial money supply.  Essentially, the entire initial money supply was given away to BTC, LTC and DOGE holders.

Proof-Of-Working-Stake refers to the CLAM's unique implementation of Proof-Of-Stake.  Proof-Of-Stake conventionally provides reward to staking users in proportion to the age of the coins they stake with.  This results in what essentially operates like "interest".  It also, however, removes the incentive for users to stake consistently and secure the network.  There is no incentive to stake now, as opposed to later, if the reward for doing so will simply accrue until that user chooses to stake and claim it.  In CLAM, the reward for staking is a static 1 CLAM per staked block.  This reward, much like proof-of-work, likely aligns incentives to stake with the benefit to the network of persistent competition for blocks.  In addition, as dooglus mentioned, the CLAM network does not provide a benefit to users based on the age of a given pile of coins (output).  This suggests that a CLAM on the network is more akin to a Proof-Of-Work miner.  A CLAM represents something somewhat similar to a unit of hashing power in a Proof-Of-Work network.  If you do not stake (turn on your miner), you do not have the opportunity to be rewarded for securing the network.



I hope that was helpful Grin

So by letting my computer hibernate I'm losing out now because I want to reduce heat/electric in the spring/summer/fall? Or am I accruing time on my coins every time my computer is awake, and it will eventually stake if I hibernate once or twice daily?

If I'm losing out, has anyone got the clamcoin daemon running on a mips router with Linux 2.6.22.19? The router stays on and it should be fine for a daemon, but sometimes packages needed are a royal pain.

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May 07, 2015, 01:24:34 AM
 #2968

You will miss out on staking if the computer is hibernating. You could also run it on something small like raspberry pi I'm sure. Dunno if you could get it to run on the router or not.

Alternatively, you could stake them online such as by investing in JD.
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May 07, 2015, 01:58:29 AM
 #2969

You will miss out on staking if the computer is hibernating. You could also run it on something small like raspberry pi I'm sure. Dunno if you could get it to run on the router or not.

Alternatively, you could stake them online such as by investing in JD.

To clarify, a computing device with the wallet will need to run non-stop with a good internet connection in order to mint a block? Meaning basically every time I resume the OS or come back from a bad internet connection(and I switch IPs), I start from ground zero in terms of staking?

I don't see how it could not run on my router, if I can get the dependencies all the right versions.

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May 07, 2015, 02:25:14 AM
 #2970

You will miss out on staking if the computer is hibernating. You could also run it on something small like raspberry pi I'm sure. Dunno if you could get it to run on the router or not.

Alternatively, you could stake them online such as by investing in JD.

To clarify, a computing device with the wallet will need to run non-stop with a good internet connection in order to mint a block? Meaning basically every time I resume the OS or come back from a bad internet connection(and I switch IPs), I start from ground zero in terms of staking?

I don't see how it could not run on my router, if I can get the dependencies all the right versions.

   Other then being mature, the age of the coins has no bearing on staking.  So once You've had the coins in the wallet long enough, you would start right back staking each time you resume your computer.  You lose out on the chance to stake while your hibernating, but your coins do not lose maturity. 

   It's like the lottery, you can't win unless you have a ticket.  And you can't stake unless the wallet is online and trying to stake.   

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May 07, 2015, 05:51:02 AM
 #2971

To clarify, a computing device with the wallet will need to run non-stop with a good internet connection in order to mint a block? Meaning basically every time I resume the OS or come back from a bad internet connection(and I switch IPs), I start from ground zero in terms of staking?

I don't see how it could not run on my router, if I can get the dependencies all the right versions.

You are always at ground zero. Just like with Bitcoin mining, you don't make progress towards making a new block, you either make a block or you don't. Spending 10 hours failing to mine a block doesn't mean you are any closer to mining a block, you just had an unlucky 10 hours. Your chance of staking is proportional to the amount of time you try to stake, so if your computer is only our of hibernation half the time, you'll stake only half as often as if it was on all the time (assuming you have your outputs split up reasonably).

The router needs a copy of the blockchain in order to be able to stake. That's currently a little under 1 Gb. I don't know what kind of storage your router has available, but that may be a problem.

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May 07, 2015, 06:49:58 AM
 #2972

I don't see how it could not run on my router, if I can get the dependencies all the right versions.

[...]

The router needs a copy of the blockchain in order to be able to stake. That's currently a little under 1 Gb. I don't know what kind of storage your router has available, but that may be a problem.

A router with a USB host would let you use a USB stick for storage, but RAM would probably be an issue. On my server, clamd currently consumes 720MB, of which 291MB is resident (actually in use). A cheap Linux-based router is likely to have only the minimum amount of hardware/resources in order to run the routing firmware. I doubt it would have 291MB spare RAM.

A Raspberry Pi 2 or Odroid C1 costs only $USD 35; either should be able to run clamd. I'm not sure whether the weaker CPUs will make staking more erratic, or it doesn't really matter. (If it does matter - the C1 CPU clocks 60% faster than the Pi2)

I have an Odroid C1 right next to me, might try compiling and running clamd for a bit, just out of curiosity. Smiley
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May 07, 2015, 04:03:37 PM
 #2973

A Raspberry Pi 2 or Odroid C1 costs only $USD 35; either should be able to run clamd. I'm not sure whether the weaker CPUs will make staking more erratic, or it doesn't really matter. (If it does matter - the C1 CPU clocks 60% faster than the Pi2)

I have an Odroid C1 right next to me, might try compiling and running clamd for a bit, just out of curiosity. Smiley

I've never tried it, but I doubt CPU would be a problem. You only get a new chance to stake every 16 seconds, so unless you have a lot of separate outputs (piles of coins) in your wallet there's not much to be done.

http://thebitcoin.foundation/ has been working to 'decruft' the satoshi Bitcoin client. In doing so they have made it capable of running on smaller hardware, so you might look at their work.

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May 07, 2015, 05:06:45 PM
 #2974

FWIW, I compiled clam for the Odroid C1 a few hours ago, and it's currently syncing. It did die with a segmentation fault ( Shocked ) after syncing a few thousand blocks, but has not skipped a beat since I restarted it. I'm doing a sync from scratch to give it a good workout.

The seemingly random segfault bothers me a little. Once fully synced I'll move the db elsewhere temporarily then try another sync from scratch, to see if it dies at the same place. Hopefully it does. [edit: running from a virgin data dir didn't segfault.]
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May 07, 2015, 05:44:08 PM
 #2975

FWIW, I compiled clam for the Odroid C1 a few hours ago, and it's currently syncing. It did die with a segmentation fault ( Shocked ) after syncing a few thousand blocks, but has not skipped a beat since I restarted it. I'm doing a sync from scratch to give it a good workout.

The seemingly random segfault bothers me a little. Once fully synced I'll move the db elsewhere temporarily then try another sync from scratch, to see if it dies at the same place. Hopefully it does. [edit: running from a virgin data dir didn't segfault.]

For a more consistent and faster syncing experience, try using the bootstrap.dat file I updated yesterday.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147.msg9772191#msg9772191

Starting with just that file, and running with -connect=127.0.0.1 should prevent your node from connecting to any peers while it loads the blockchain from the bootstrap file, so if it crashes once it should crash the same way every time.

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May 07, 2015, 07:13:14 PM
 #2976

I want to create a free clam faucet

Anyone help me to get scrypt and complete tutorial installation guide

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chriswen
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May 07, 2015, 08:31:45 PM
 #2977

Anyone notice the increased liquidity on poloniex?

@coinarb

I've implemented a new market-maker algo at @Poloniex which should provide greater liquidity around the mid-price.

Only supporting the top 10 alt-coins with sound business strategies whom are truly innovating in this space.
SuperClam (OP)
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May 08, 2015, 01:47:36 AM
 #2978

Changed the OP post links over to the new block explorer @ CLAMsight.com.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=623147
Proof-Of-Chain, 100% Distributed BEFORE Launch.
Everyone who owned BTC, LTC, or DOGE at launch got free CLAMS.
almightyruler
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May 09, 2015, 03:25:34 PM
 #2979

FWIW, I compiled clam for the Odroid C1 a few hours ago, and it's currently syncing. It did die with a segmentation fault ( Shocked ) after syncing a few thousand blocks, but has not skipped a beat since I restarted it. I'm doing a sync from scratch to give it a good workout.

For a more consistent and faster syncing experience, try using the bootstrap.dat file I updated yesterday.
[...]
Starting with just that file, and running with -connect=127.0.0.1 should prevent your node from connecting to any peers while it loads the blockchain from the bootstrap file, so if it crashes once it should crash the same way every time.

I did the consistent experience in a slightly different way. The Odroid C1 only has a local address, with no gateway IP translation, so the only peer it can connect to is my local server. It didn't crash at all during the second sync attempt... hopefully this was an edge case, where a newer block offered by a peer when barely synced caused something obscure to trigger a crash, rather than it being a more "random" event.

The client is fully synced now, and I can see it's trying to stake, too. With a relatively fresh deposit of only 108 CLAM it may take a while. Smiley



With a "typical" maximum power consumption of only 2.5W - a few dollars worth of electricity per year - this sort of setup could be very handy for someone who doesn't leave their main machine powered on 24/7.
dooglus
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May 09, 2015, 06:07:25 PM
 #2980

The client is fully synced now, and I can see it's trying to stake, too. With a relatively fresh deposit of only 108 CLAM it may take a while. Smiley

Thanks for letting us know that it is possible!

It's a shame you weren't able to reproduce the crash though. I would have liked to fix it.

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