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Author Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs  (Read 1968877 times)
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patmast3r
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June 18, 2014, 06:10:31 AM
 #161

I oppose pre launch public auction, as that means 400 BTC IPO is going into someone pocket  at current prices.

If developers want 400 BTC more, why they also need 15% stake too  (which is 600 million Nem)



Money is used to pay for ecosystem dev, etc. Those stakes are only worth 400 BTC because of our efforts, so what is the problem?

Those stakes are NOT worth 400 BTC because of your efforts as nothing is released. They are worth 400 BTC because of the entire community and supporter.

So let get this straight.

(1) You want 15% of stakes  -- that's 600 stakes for anyone not counting, or 600 million Nem --   (reserved 10% more for future)
(2) You want 66 BTC and several thousand Nxt that were collected during IPO
(3) Now on top of that you want to sell 200 more stakes before the launch for additional 400 BTC (which is essentially a second IPO)
(4) No definite statement made about what you will do with unclaimed stakes.

The whole thing is intended to make 8 "developers" rich very fast before the launch (or just after).

 Good luck to "rest" of the community since if developer dump even 50% of the 15% (300 million) it will tank the prices for all of you bought it on Nxt AE, while developers are already rich.  



Do you realize you're becoming CfAs annoying little sibling ?

Why is it so hard for you to understand that most of those funds will be spent FOR NEM. FOR THE COMMUNITY.
I would immagine that after V1 will depploy a commitee that decides on ideas that come from the entire community.

Make a better suggestions. You're only spreading FUD but in no way you are making any suggestions on how to handle it.

How on earth is one to make a definite statement about unclaimed stakes if they have no idea on how many those will be ?

Yeah, it's incredibly likely that devs will dump their coins after they've spent countless hours of devloping it for unappreciating people like yourself.

And NEM is not where it is because of the devs work ? Are you kidding me ? Are you freaking kidding me ?

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June 18, 2014, 06:25:05 AM
 #162

I think gimre stated the current plan fairly well:

Let me address some of the issues.

Regarding dev fund, as of today UF already spend 10.5BTC for UI/UX. And the estimate is another 10btc till Aug.
The dev fund is controlled by dev team, the accounts are in first post.


There are/were two main reasons for public auction:
  • get more stakeholder, to have 3000 stakes altogether,
  • get funds for future work (mainly for external expenses),
  • public auction would most likely be held AFTER BETA.

When it comes to me (and I think I express view of other devs too), I'm here for NEM, not for btc.
Whether public auction will be held (I think it should as it was promised), and how many stakes
will there be, is TBD. We will definitely take Eadeqa's fears and doubts into consideration.
(Give us few days time for some internal discussion)

Regarding 15%, keep in mind there is 400/100/100 split there, so it's not only dev but also promotion and ecosystem.

The 10% reserve, is supposed to go for FUTURE projects and it will be LOCKED (using NEM business rules).

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xtester
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June 18, 2014, 06:37:14 AM
 #163



Those stakes are NOT worth 400 BTC because of your efforts as nothing is released. They are worth 400 BTC because of the entire community and supporter.

So let get this straight.

(1) You want 15% of stakes  -- that's 600 stakes for anyone not counting, or 600 million Nem --   (reserved 10% more for future)
(2) You want 66 BTC and several thousand Nxt that were collected during IPO
(3) Now on top of that you want to sell 200 more stakes before the launch for additional 400 BTC (which is essentially a second IPO)
(4) No definite statement made about what you will do with unclaimed stakes.

The whole thing is intended to make 8 "developers" rich very fast before the launch (or just after).

 Good luck to "rest" of the community since if developer dump even 50% of the 15% (300 million) it will tank the prices for all of you bought it on Nxt AE, while developers are already rich.  



Eadeqa, I don't know what your agenda is, but it seems very suspicious.

Totally agree with formula1.


Very reasonable IMO. I am an early investor in Nxt and a stake holder in NEM and allow me to chime in my perspective here: Eadeqa's FUD is widely off the mark.

When Nxt was out of the genesis block there were a radom 8 people who held 5% of the total coin each. There were at least two other peope who sent the Btc twice or more and they had 5% of the total coin each too. Comparing to NEM current scheme in which the core dev. get about 2% for doing allmost all the works up to V1 blockchain (which is up to current Nxt blockchain specification as I understand).

I am questioning this Eadeqa's motive. He doesn't care that a random person holding 5% of Nxt but worry so much that a NEM core developer getting 2%? Isn't is suspicisous ? I would demand his explanation before considering any of his FUD request.

As a business owner and a technocrat myself, I believe in hardwork being rewarded. As a regular investor (in other businesses), I am always looking for the clues that the key people of that entities having proper incentives for doing a good job of running the show. As a NEM stakeholder, I think it is the best for NEM that the core dev. and other key peope in marketing and business having a sizeable chunk of NEM so that they have an interest in developing and building NEM for a longer term success.

Add: As a community, we have to treat our developers well. They are NEM founders and deserve to be treated as such.

Let me put this straight: since you are so concerned about your investment but not at all about your contribution, would you like a refunding?

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June 18, 2014, 06:52:19 AM
 #164

Those stakes are NOT worth 400 BTC because of your efforts as nothing is released. They are worth 400 BTC because of the entire community and supporter.

So let get this straight.

(1) You want 15% of stakes  -- that's 600 stakes for anyone not counting, or 600 million Nem --   (reserved 10% more for future)
(2) You want 66 BTC and several thousand Nxt that were collected during IPO
(3) Now on top of that you want to sell 200 more stakes before the launch for additional 400 BTC (which is essentially a second IPO)
(4) No definite statement made about what you will do with unclaimed stakes.

The whole thing is intended to make 8 "developers" rich very fast before the launch (or just after).

 Good luck to "rest" of the community since if developer dump even 50% of the 15% (300 million) it will tank the prices for all of you bought it on Nxt AE, while developers are already rich.  


I've already tried to reply, not sure if you've seen it.

Let me address some of the issues.

Regarding dev fund, as of today UF already spend 10.5BTC for UI/UX. And the estimate is another 10btc till Aug.
The dev fund is controlled by dev team, the accounts are in first post.


There are/were two main reasons for public auction:
  • get more stakeholder, to have 3000 stakes altogether,
  • get funds for future work (mainly for external expenses),
  • public auction would most likely be held AFTER BETA.

When it comes to me (and I think I express view of other devs too), I'm here for NEM, not for btc.
Whether public auction will be held (I think it should as it was promised), and how many stakes
will there be, is TBD. We will definitely take Eadeqa's fears and doubts into consideration.
(Give us few days time for some internal discussion)

Regarding 15%, keep in mind there is 400/100/100 split there, so it's not only dev but also promotion and ecosystem.

The 10% reserve, is supposed to go for FUTURE projects and it will be LOCKED (using NEM business rules).

That should answer your point 1) and 2)
Regarding 4) Unclaimed stakes will most likely become community managed fund (but we'll probably give people 2 months after launch to claim them)

Regarding 3) As I've written above, I'm not here for BTC, there's at least one good reason to hold public auction:
keep in mind most of the sellers on NXT AE are probably socks, public auction would lower the prices (which is actually good, as there's a chance we would get REAL supporters on board not socks)

If you remember some initial numbers regarding stakeholders "BTT age", I estimate that we might still have 30% of socks.

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June 18, 2014, 06:55:53 AM
 #165


Eadeqa, I don't know what your agenda is, but it seems very suspicious.


My points are pretty clear,. What exactly do you not understand? We have 25% of stakes controlled by a few people known as "developers" and co. Then makoto1337 has publicly stated (see above) that all unclaimed coins will also go to developer's fund TOO. Nxt was launched just 2 months after IPO and 25% of people never came back to claim their coins. Given much longer delay, this number could be even higher, but lets assume it's 25%

25% + 25% = 50%
 
Half the coins will be in control of very few insiders for "development" purposes of course.

Rest of 3000 stakeholder will have to play with 50%, but amazingly,  the guys  also intend to sell another 150 stakes from that  50% as auction  for more money.

I don't think there have ever been any coin launched (except ripple and a few country coins) with so much centralized control


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makoto1337
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June 18, 2014, 07:03:54 AM
 #166


Eadeqa, I don't know what your agenda is, but it seems very suspicious.


My points are pretty clear,. What exactly do you not understand? We have 25% of stakes controlled by a few people known as "developers" and co. Then makoto1337 has publicly stated (see above) that all unclaimed coins will also go to developer's fund TOO. Nxt was launched just 2 months after IPO and 25% of people never came back to claim their funds. Given much larger delay, this number could be even higher, but lets assume it's 25%

25% + 25% = 50%
 
Half the coins will be in control of very few insiders for "development" purposes of course.

Rest of 3000 stakeholder will have to play with 50%, but amazingly,  the guys  also intend to sell another 150 stakes from that  50% as auction  for more money.

I don't think there have ever been any coin launched (except ripple and a few country coins) with so much centralized control

What to do with unclaimed coins has not yet been decided. One proposal from a few weeks ago that UP made internally was that we use it for trying to get some full-time devs, but nothing is decided completely.

If the community has any specific proposals, please post them here or on trello, along with an argument for, pros, and cons for doing it the way you propose. That would help us all to reach consensus.

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June 18, 2014, 07:07:31 AM
 #167

What to do with unclaimed coins has not yet been decided. One proposal from a few weeks ago that UP made internally was that we use it for trying to get some full-time devs, but nothing is decided completely.

Why not just distribute the coins to all stakeholders equally?

There is plenty of coins left for development -- 10% is 400 million Nem plus all the BTC you will have with the auction and first  IPO?

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June 18, 2014, 07:09:17 AM
 #168


Then makoto1337 has publicly stated (see above) that all unclaimed coins will also go to developer's fund funds.
wow, how can IPO coins mutate to Dev coins?? Is this true? Should be droped to Stakeholders.

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June 18, 2014, 07:15:55 AM
 #169


Then makoto1337 has publicly stated (see above) that all unclaimed coins will also go to developer's fund funds.
wow, how can IPO coins mutate to Dev coins?? Is this true? Should be droped to Stakeholders.

That should answer your point 1) and 2)
Regarding 4) Unclaimed stakes will most likely become community managed fund (but we'll probably give people 2 months after launch to claim them)


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June 18, 2014, 07:19:56 AM
 #170


Then makoto1337 has publicly stated (see above) that all unclaimed coins will also go to developer's fund funds.
wow, how can IPO coins mutate to Dev coins?? Is this true? Should be droped to Stakeholders.

There was never any IPO. Also, what to do with unclaimed coins has not yet been decided.

You guys seem to be confusing unclaimed coins post-V1 launch, with the refunded stakes that are planned to be auctioned off. It is hard to keep track of what is being talked about...

Check out what is written here, in order to get an idea of what the current plan is.

https://raw.githubusercontent.com/makoto1337/NEMlogos/master/page1.jpg
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/makoto1337/NEMlogos/master/page3.jpg

Some specifics on how to handle unclaimed stakes or how to use the dev fund have not all been completely decided, so if people have specific ideas, follow this format:

Ex.
Proposal: Use unclaimed stakes for a NEM space program.
Pros: Even more amazing than a NASCAR car! Expanding to space will help create a DECENTRALIZED community.
Cons: Expensive?

NeverEnoughMakoto XEM: NDMAKOTODH4OXMQCAGZWWPVLRUVOCLXXKOSKFUJA/
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June 18, 2014, 07:21:59 AM
 #171

What to do with unclaimed coins has not yet been decided. One proposal from a few weeks ago that UP made internally was that we use it for trying to get some full-time devs, but nothing is decided completely.

Why not just distribute the coins to all stakeholders equally?

There is plenty of coins left for development -- 10% is 400 million Nem plus all the BTC you will have with the auction and first  IPO?

Okay, I will help you out.

Proposal 1: distribute refunded stakes equally to all stakeholders (this has to be original stakeholders because it seems to complicated to do this with NXT assets I think?)
Pros: Easy to understand and all the original stakeholders benefit, not just a few (this is a good point!).
Cons: Doesn't allow new people to enter the community, sockpuppets will also benefit, and there will be less funding for pay for promotion and development, which will also hurt everyone.

Any other arguments that could be added?
Other proposals?

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June 18, 2014, 07:29:26 AM
 #172




Letter to all NEM stakeholders


Dear Nemsters,
 
As you may or may not already know, there have been some changes to the NEM team resulting in a lot of confusion on the Bitcointalk forum.
 
UtopianFuture has left the team, in good faith, and there has subsequently been a reorganization to reflect his departure.meg
 
UtopianFuture had been instrumental in organizing this project, but rest assured that the core development team is still intact. UtopianFuture's main role was coordination, providing direction and management of the voluntary association that is NEM. He was never involved in the coding. Hence, development-wise, the project is not impacted.
 
NEM is based upon the principle of decentralization, such that no single person is indispensable. Since UtopianFuture left, numerous volunteers have  come forward and offered their help. We are in fact honored to know that there are many of you out there who share the same vision as the core development team of creating a new economic movement. We are now stronger than ever and have recruited some of these volunteers to the team to push our ideals forward more aggressively than ever before. Yes, we have since regrouped and are soldiering on to ensure that this project is successful!
 
With the reorganisation, we have decided that there should be an entirely separate group looking after the promotion of NEM. We have now created a new Marketing Board to spearhead organizing the great NEM community and to spur our movement to greater heights. To say the least, this event has actually made us into a much stronger group.
 
As a result of the events that have transpired, there have been many unsubstantiated speculations and postulations about what happened. Most of these statements have been emotionally charged and were without any factual basis. These misleading claims have left the community confused.
 
We would like to take this opportunity to assure you that most of these claims are not true and that it is business as usual for the core team; you should not be influenced at all by some of the characters in the forum that purport otherwise.
 
The last few months have been rather hectic and to complete a project of this size and nature requires a lot of careful planning and design. It has not been easy, but we believe with the able-bodied team that we have, we shall be able to meet our targets.
 
In the meantime, and in order to allay the confusion, we have included links to the only official NEM threads on bitcointalk. We have also included the link to our official NEM websites and forum. If you have any questions regarding the incidents that have caused this confusion, you are most welcome to raise those questions in the forum threads or contact one of the core team members directly.
 
At the same breath, we would like to advise that for those of you who are eligible for the NEM coins, please take care of your BTT accounts. Please do not spam, post addresses or expose your transaction TX-IDs such that your accounts get banned. Your account is key to your claim later.

Due to the incidents in the past, it was decided that a moderated thread would also be created to run alongside the non-moderated thread. Please read xtester's post about why this is necessary here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654845.msg7350705#msg7350705

Official Links:


Materials:


Project Information Memorandum:

Websites

If you cannot find the information you need in the links above please do not hesitate to post any question you may have on the relevant NEM thread. A special thanks goes to rockethead, kodtycoon and makoto1337 for putting this together on such short notice. This letter will now be sent to all NEM stakeholders via PM.
 
Thank you very much for your attention.
 
NEM Marketing Team



Thank you for the update

NEM      Faucet      Slack Invite      Easy API’s      Light Wallet      Amazing White Paper       Supernodes     Telegram Invite     Mijin 
Eadeqa
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June 18, 2014, 07:42:07 AM
 #173

What to do with unclaimed coins has not yet been decided. One proposal from a few weeks ago that UP made internally was that we use it for trying to get some full-time devs, but nothing is decided completely.

Why not just distribute the coins to all stakeholders equally?

There is plenty of coins left for development -- 10% is 400 million Nem plus all the BTC you will have with the auction and first  IPO?

Okay, I will help you out.

Proposal 1: distribute refunded stakes equally to all stakeholders (this has to be original stakeholders because it seems to complicated to do this with NXT assets I think?)

It's not complicated with Nxt asset. One token would  still be equal to 1 stake, just number of nem in one stake would get larger (depending on unclaimed stakes). It's simply a question of arithmetic and should not be complicated.

Lets say the launch day is August 15th

Everyone will have a chance to create a nem account and claim a stake till August 14. Those who don't would be considered unclaimed stakes. Divide 75% of 4000 billion and distribute it equally among all stakeholder who claimed the stake, including 1 token for 1 stake on Nxt asset

Why do you think 10% plus all the BTC isn't enough for future development? Nxt started with 21 BTC and unclaimed nxt equaled to 10 million ( which is only 1% of total nxt) . There were no development stake.
Nem will have 200 times more BTC (after the auction)  and 10 times more nem. I would say that's plenty.



 

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June 18, 2014, 07:53:38 AM
 #174

What to do with unclaimed coins has not yet been decided. One proposal from a few weeks ago that UP made internally was that we use it for trying to get some full-time devs, but nothing is decided completely.

Why not just distribute the coins to all stakeholders equally?

There is plenty of coins left for development -- 10% is 400 million Nem plus all the BTC you will have with the auction and first  IPO?

It sounds like you really just want more coins. Don't beat around the bush.

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June 18, 2014, 07:54:13 AM
 #175

A NEM cubesat in low orbit would be around 80.000$. NASA does these things for free sometimes if it serves a purpose though.

burp...
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June 18, 2014, 08:02:10 AM
 #176

It sounds like you really just want more coins. Don't beat around the bush.

As opposed to 8 insiders who want to control 50% of the coins?  And that's the great "fair distribution"?


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June 18, 2014, 08:07:44 AM
 #177

My points are pretty clear,. What exactly do you not understand? We have 25% of stakes controlled by a few people known as "developers" and co.

It seems like you deliberatly ignore what I'm saying.

Regarding 4) Unclaimed stakes will most likely become community managed fund (but we'll probably give people 2 months after launch to claim them)

Some additional information

1) as makoto said it's 10% not 15%, 5% is promotion/ecosystem
2) both developer accounts and promotion/eco will be GUARDED by Nem Business Rules, that means, that NEMs will be released SLOWLY during long period of time, so devs simply WON'T be able to "dump it all"
3) 10% post v1 development reserve will be LOCKED using Nem Business Rules, and NO ONE will be able to TOUCH those funds before V1 completion

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June 18, 2014, 08:09:54 AM
 #178

It sounds like you really just want more coins. Don't beat around the bush.


As oppose to 8 insiders who want to control 50% of the coins?  And that's the great "the fair distribution" of the coin?

Why not rename Nem to aurora if that happens?

You are calculating the 50% with the assumption that 25% will unclaimed stakes. That nothing but an assumption. NXT had that many so what ?
We noticed your concern and we'll think about how best to proceed. You can stop posting FUD now.


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June 18, 2014, 08:13:06 AM
 #179

It sounds like you really just want more coins. Don't beat around the bush.

As opposed to 8 insiders who want to control 50% of the coins?  And that's the great "fair distribution"?



Better than NXT
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June 18, 2014, 08:17:12 AM
 #180

Better than NXT

Nxt was pretty simple and uncomplicated. Open & public IPO and every single Nxt was distributed to all stakeholders who put BTC with zero development stake.


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