|
jztxeno
|
 |
June 22, 2014, 04:21:01 PM |
|
Any news on how they will handle the swap (Token -> NEM?)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"The nature of Bitcoin is such that once version 0.1 was released, the
core design was set in stone for the rest of its lifetime." -- Satoshi
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Coinsy
|
|
June 22, 2014, 04:33:41 PM |
|
What is the likely price of a NEM stake after the proper release?
Well...... Higher than today. We really just have to see how smooth it is, how well POI works, and a few other factors. Jaguar says we won't see how POI works in all its glory at alpha release. |
|
|
|
|
|
TaunSew
|
|
June 22, 2014, 04:37:49 PM |
|
What is the likely price of a NEM stake after the proper release?
Well...... Higher than today. We really just have to see how smooth it is, how well POI works, and a few other factors. Jaguar says we won't see how POI works in all its glory at alpha release. Nothing is proprietary in crypto currencies. IIRC - a lot of the concepts that were pioneered by eMunie were taken on by other coins. Exposing how your features work is only inviting someone to take it and use it themselves, before you manage to release. |
There ain't no Revolution like a NEMolution. The only solution is Bitcoin's dissolution! NEM!
|
|
|
gimre
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 866
Merit: 1002
|
|
June 22, 2014, 04:56:01 PM |
|
What is the likely price of a NEM stake after the proper release?
Well...... Higher than today. We really just have to see how smooth it is, how well POI works, and a few other factors. Jaguar says we won't see how POI works in all its glory at alpha release. Well, POI IS WORKING, but for users it's invisible. |
|
|
|
|
instacalm
|
|
June 22, 2014, 04:57:46 PM |
|
Well, POI IS WORKING, but for users it's invisible.
Could you please elaborate on that? |
|
|
|
|
rockethead
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1059
Merit: 1016
|
|
June 22, 2014, 05:16:10 PM |
|
Share with you something. This is for real!  |
|
|
|
|
gimre
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 866
Merit: 1002
|
|
June 22, 2014, 05:28:24 PM |
|
Well, POI IS WORKING, but for users it's invisible.
Could you please elaborate on that? Poi is currently FULLY functional, but in UI normal user won't see HOW it works, he'll only see, window to send/receive nems. So for most users, it actually doesn't matter, there is PoI underneath. |
|
|
|
|
Coinsy
|
|
June 22, 2014, 05:31:22 PM |
|
Well, POI IS WORKING, but for users it's invisible.
Could you please elaborate on that? Poi is currently FULLY functional, but in UI normal user won't see HOW it works, he'll only see, window to send/receive nems. So for most users, it actually doesn't matter, there is PoI underneath. Ah, I think I'm following. When Jag said "there isn't enough time to see how POI works right away", is he saying that POI will be running but it will have to be running for a while for us to notice its impact? |
|
|
|
|
|
patmast3r
|
|
June 22, 2014, 05:46:01 PM |
|
Well, POI IS WORKING, but for users it's invisible.
Could you please elaborate on that? Poi is currently FULLY functional, but in UI normal user won't see HOW it works, he'll only see, window to send/receive nems. So for most users, it actually doesn't matter, there is PoI underneath. Ah, I think I'm following. When Jag said "there isn't enough time to see how POI works right away", is he saying that POI will be running but it will have to be running for a while for us to notice its impact? Yes that is - at least I'm pretty sure - exactly what he's saying. See with PoS it's rather simple. Either your balance is high or it isn't. POI is much more complicated and needs time because it's taking into account how "active" a user is in terms of transactions. |
|
|
|
|
freigeist
|
|
June 22, 2014, 05:53:07 PM |
|
Well, POI IS WORKING, but for users it's invisible.
Could you please elaborate on that? Poi is currently FULLY functional, but in UI normal user won't see HOW it works, he'll only see, window to send/receive nems. So for most users, it actually doesn't matter, there is PoI underneath. Ah, I think I'm following. When Jag said "there isn't enough time to see how POI works right away", is he saying that POI will be running but it will have to be running for a while for us to notice its impact? Yes that is - at least I'm pretty sure - exactly what he's saying. See with PoS it's rather simple. Either your balance is high or it isn't. POI is much more complicated and needs time because it's taking into account how "active" a user is in terms of transactions. Hello. But could this be somehow gamed?! I mean could somebody setup few nodes on different machines and automate the accounts to send transactions between each other to raise his node Importance in the network? Also is it possible to earn transaction fees with POI if the account has 0 NEM balance or having at least 1 NEM is a must to start (forging,harvesting,neming,backing ....) ?  |
|
|
|
|
patmast3r
|
|
June 22, 2014, 05:58:40 PM |
|
Well, POI IS WORKING, but for users it's invisible.
Could you please elaborate on that? Poi is currently FULLY functional, but in UI normal user won't see HOW it works, he'll only see, window to send/receive nems. So for most users, it actually doesn't matter, there is PoI underneath. Ah, I think I'm following. When Jag said "there isn't enough time to see how POI works right away", is he saying that POI will be running but it will have to be running for a while for us to notice its impact? Yes that is - at least I'm pretty sure - exactly what he's saying. See with PoS it's rather simple. Either your balance is high or it isn't. POI is much more complicated and needs time because it's taking into account how "active" a user is in terms of transactions. Hello. But could this be somehow gamed?! I mean could somebody setup few nodes on different machines and automate the accounts to send transactions between each other to raise his node Importance in the network? Also is it possible to earn transaction fees with POI if the account has 0 NEM balance or having at least 1 NEM is a must to start (forging,harvesting,neming,backing ....) ? POI also includes coinage which means you can't just send NEM around and boost your importance. I won't go into the details of vested and unvested stuff because I'm no core dev and I don't want to get anything wrong here. There is a minimum that you need to start harvesting but I'm not sure right now what it is. |
|
|
|
gimre
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 866
Merit: 1002
|
|
June 22, 2014, 06:04:19 PM |
|
But could this be somehow gamed?! I mean could somebody setup few nodes on different machines and automate the accounts to send transactions between each other to raise his node Importance in the network? Also is it possible to earn transaction fees with POI if the account has 0 NEM balance or having at least 1 NEM is a must to start (forging,harvesting,neming,backing ....) ? In short: It can't be gamed like that. Also important node in PoI == account. |
|
|
|
jenea4pda
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 382
Merit: 250
Iota and JINN
|
|
June 22, 2014, 06:27:21 PM
Last edit: June 22, 2014, 06:38:36 PM by jenea4pda |
|
It's look NEMastic!!!  Enjoy NEM! NEM OPEN ALPHA LAUNCH IS SCHEDULED FOR 25th JUNE 2014 |
www.iotatoken.com https://twitter.com/iotatokenIota is a brand new and novel micro-transaction cryptotoken optimized for the Internet-of-Things (IoT). Unlike the complex and heavy blockchains of Bitcoin and the like, which were designed with other uses in mind, Iota is created to be as lightweight as possible, hence the name "Iota" with emphasis on the ‘IoT’ part.
|
|
|
|
Fastpow
|
|
June 22, 2014, 06:38:45 PM |
|
Got to say, the Alpha client looks awesome! I'm testing right now
|
|
|
|
|
owon
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 26
Merit: 0
|
|
June 22, 2014, 06:47:07 PM |
|
Hey everybody, i have updated my NEM account generator and you can now generate vanity addresses including a 'pattern' defined by you. http://owon.github.io/nemaddress/Everything is written in JS and this is not the most performant way to create vanity addresses - but it should be a good start Cheers |
|
|
|
|
ReutPro
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
|
|
June 22, 2014, 07:01:34 PM |
|
Why such a big current balance. There must be 1 ... 2.... million? Or not? |
|
|
|
|
gimre
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 866
Merit: 1002
|
|
June 22, 2014, 07:01:44 PM |
|
Hey everybody, i have updated my NEM account generator and you can now generate vanity addresses including a 'pattern' defined by you. http://owon.github.io/nemaddress/Everything is written in JS and this is not the most performant way to create vanity addresses - but it should be a good start Cheers watch out, there's currently a bug in the generator, wait for next update from owon :-) |
|
|
|
lcharles123
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1697
Merit: 1074
|
|
June 22, 2014, 07:02:03 PM |
|
Well, POI IS WORKING, but for users it's invisible.
Could you please elaborate on that? From nxtforum: good question. I can find 0 info about this.
when NEM started I found a paper with a description of PoI on github, but it was soon deleted. This is only a partial copy of that description because I didn't save the math part (I'm not a dev and it was all over my head): Proof of Importance: A Fairer Way to Secure P2P Currencies
Introduction
Proof of Importance (PoI) is a novel method for security distributed peer-to-peer (P2P) currencies, using the structure of the transaction graph to determine nodes that are structurally important to the overall network. PoI is closely related to Proof of Stake (PoS), where holding units of currency for a period of time gives a person a higher "stake" in the network.
Actors with a higher stake in the network are considered more trustworthy.
Proof of Stake
In PoS, an actor has a stake in the network that is measured in "coin-days," which is a metric based on the number of units of the currency (coins), which is then weighted by the time since the last transaction the coins were in (days).
To prevent people from quickly sending coins around to many accounts to boost their stake in the network, the coins a person holds are usually weighted at 0 for the first 24 hours after being used in a transaction.
Proof of Importance
While PoS can work to secure a network, it also promotes hoarding of the currency and discourages actually using the currency in transactions. It also has the effect that the "rich get richer," because accounts with large numbers of coin-days are more likely to receive transaction fees from the network.
For the crypto-currency project NEM (New Economy Movement; No-Envy Movement), a more equitable way of distributing transaction fees and promoting the use of the currency, while securing the network, was desired. Intuitively, PoI is a measure of how important an account is to the health of the network as a whole. An important account is used in many transactions and also has a large number of coin-days.
With PoS implemented without transparent forging, governments could control a currency simply by buying a majority stake and holding on to it. PoI makes this impossible by being based not only on the share of the currency that an account has, but also by transactions carried out with other accounts.
For the first version of PoI, it is proposed to use a modified form of PageRank to calculate the importance of nodes in a network. In a P2P currency, accounts can be considered nodes and transactions between accounts can be considered edges linking the nodes. PageRank is an algorithm for calculating the stationary probability distribution of an ergodic Markov chain. It was developed originally for ranking web pages in Google search results, but has also been successfully applied to word-sense disambiguation, citation analysis, and ranking popular locations in a spatial environment. In PageRank, the importance of a node in a graph is related to the importance of nodes that point to it. Thus the algorithm uses direction information about which nodes point to each other.
In the context of cryptographic currencies, nodes are accounts specified by public and private keys, and the edges connecting nodes are transactions that transfer currency. In iterative implementations of PageRank, all nodes are first initialized with the probability that a node is randomly chosen, For PoI, rather than initializing all nodes with the random probability of being chosen, the value of each account in coin-days is used initially. Since PageRank requires a directed graph, if two nodes transfer currency between each other, the direction of the edge between the nodes is based on the direction of net flow of currency; if the if there is not net flow of currency, that is, the two nodes trade the same amount between each other, then no edge is added linking the nodes.
This helps forging to be more equitable, because under standard PoS, an account for an exchange could just keep all the currency in one account and gain significant stake in the network. Using PoI, when people withdraw from an exchange, they could get a boost in their own PageRank because a node with lots of coin-days will transact to them. If nodes in a graph are traversed in a pre-determined order, then the results of this algorithm are deterministic. This determinism can allow transparent forging, because any node could calculate the importance of other nodes based on transactions in the block chain.
Specific to NEM, the following points should be considered:
Messages sent between accounts using NEM's secure messaging service will not be considered as linking two nodes. If message passing was included, it could make it too easy to manipulate the connectivity of the network.
Accounts with less than 1000 NEM will not be considered as nodes in the network. Otherwise someone could cheaply create many accounts and manipulate network connectivity that way.
Since Proof of Importance is based not only the amount of coin-days held by one account, but also the graph-theoretic importance of the node in the network, carrying out attacks on the network is prohibitively expensive because many important nodes would have to be created and point to each other.
|
You have limited power here. -"Bitcoin on Governments"
|
|
|
|
mrvegad
|
|
June 22, 2014, 07:02:50 PM |
|
It's look NEMastic!!! Enjoy NEM! NEM OPEN ALPHA LAUNCH IS SCHEDULED FOR 25th JUNE 2014 Why such a big current balance. There must be 1 ... 2.... million? Or not? it is just alpha, lots of NEM for everybody |
|
|
|
|
|
Fastpow
|
|
June 22, 2014, 07:03:16 PM |
|
It's look NEMastic!!! Enjoy NEM! NEM OPEN ALPHA LAUNCH IS SCHEDULED FOR 25th JUNE 2014 Why such a big current balance. There must be 1 ... 2.... million? Or not? This is closed Alpha testing. We're only testing it with about 20-30 people so everyone got very large amounts of NEM. |
|
|
|
|
|
