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Author Topic: NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs  (Read 1968886 times)
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KingCole
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June 18, 2014, 06:54:16 PM
 #261

I know it is sometimes difficult to think in the round about these things, and that people quite rightly have a psychological aversion to 'destruction', but isn't option 1 (destruction) just a very simple and elegant way of implementing option 3 (distribution to all stakeholders)?

That's exactly how I see it.
I'm also leaning towards destroying them.
On the other hand I'm not entirely certain that a single NEM will become inevitably more valuable as it becomes more rare.

I don't believe the stakes should be destroyed. Think about the what this means to someone outside of the community looking in. My preference would be that the stakes are awarded to people outside of the existing community and preferably outside of the crypto community. I see this as a method to increase the number of people in the community of NEM and encouraging more people on the outside of the crypto environment to become involved, wasn't that the original intention of having 3,000 stakeholders? I aso want to make a clear distinction here between giving away and awarded.

The reward of a stake or maybe part of a stake (0.1 instead of 1.0) should come as the result of effort. Maybe that can be as simple as a letter explaining why a person believes they should be awarded a stake, maybe it is for setting up a local group, maybe it should be used to create a foundation that is able to give funds outside of the core NEM development team based on a voting system in the blockchain?

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June 18, 2014, 06:56:19 PM
 #262

I know it is sometimes difficult to think in the round about these things, and that people quite rightly have a psychological aversion to 'destruction', but isn't option 1 (destruction) just a very simple and elegant way of implementing option 3 (distribution to all stakeholders)?

That's exactly how I see it.
I'm also leaning towards destroying them.
On the other hand I'm not entirely certain that a single NEM will become inevitably more valuable as it becomes more rare.
I've got a better idea purchase one of these for the Dev's to share


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June 18, 2014, 07:00:59 PM
 #263

I would like to see a huge pile of NEM get into the hands of average joe without them paying for it,this will make the stakeholders mad since they had to pay for it but average joes won't be spending money to buy NEM when they are not sure about it. Isn't the goal of NEM to help people achieve financial freedom? The more people that have it the greater chance NEM will succeed which will increase the value for the stakeholders.

This is not how real life works. Aurora tried to get adapted as a country coin by distributing them freely, but Icelanders immediately dumped the coins for BTC instead -- crashing the prices immediately.
Where is the adaption? Nowhere.  Anything that is "freely" distributed to a large number of people will have no value -- as anything that is "free" is worthless.  

As  for destroying them, I am happy with that idea, but in reality it's same as distributing them equally to all stakeholders. The net effect is the same.

I just don't want "developers" or the "insiders" to be sitting on 50% of the coins ("locked" or not as why should we trust what they will do next year or year after that?) Why on earth even leave that an option?

As far as I am concerned they are already controlling way too many coins with 25%  -- add unclaimed coins to that list and whole thing starts to turn into joke


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June 18, 2014, 07:04:41 PM
 #264

I know it is sometimes difficult to think in the round about these things, and that people quite rightly have a psychological aversion to 'destruction', but isn't option 1 (destruction) just a very simple and elegant way of implementing option 3 (distribution to all stakeholders)?

That's exactly how I see it.
I'm also leaning towards destroying them.
On the other hand I'm not entirely certain that a single NEM will become inevitably more valuable as it becomes more rare.

+1 for this. While it seems the same destroying is different from giving them out proportionally.  I vote for development committee. The second choice is to destroy. No point of giving current stakeholders more.

NEM: TC2L3G2VREUAZI7SE5WJW7TM6B3DBBKL4DJCO6AA
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June 18, 2014, 07:11:50 PM
 #265

I know it is sometimes difficult to think in the round about these things, and that people quite rightly have a psychological aversion to 'destruction', but isn't option 1 (destruction) just a very simple and elegant way of implementing option 3 (distribution to all stakeholders)?

That's exactly how I see it.
I'm also leaning towards destroying them.
On the other hand I'm not entirely certain that a single NEM will become inevitably more valuable as it becomes more rare.

+1 for this. While it seems the same destroying is different from giving them out proportionally.  I vote for development committee. The second choice is to destroy. No point of giving current stakeholders more.

Why on earth do you need 50% for "development" if unclaimed stakes is high? There are already 25% for development and marketing plus all the BTC and Nxt in the original IPO. Why Nem developers need so much more than any other coin in the world?


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June 18, 2014, 07:12:08 PM
 #266

I would like to see a huge pile of NEM get into the hands of average joe without them paying for it,this will make the stakeholders mad since they had to pay for it but average joes won't be spending money to buy NEM when they are not sure about it. Isn't the goal of NEM to help people achieve financial freedom? The more people that have it the greater chance NEM will succeed which will increase the value for the stakeholders.

This is not how real life works. Aurora tried to get adapted as a country coin by distributing them freely, but Icelanders immediately dumped the coins for BTC instead -- crashing the prices immediately.
Where is the adaption? Nowhere.  Anything that is "freely" distributed to a large number of people will have no value -- as anything that is "free" is worthless.  

As  for destroying them, I am happy with that idea, but in reality it's same as distributing them equally to all stakeholders. The net effect is the same.

I just don't want "developers" or the "insiders" to be sitting on 50% of the coins ("locked" or not as why should we trust what they will do next year or year after that?) Why on earth even leave that an option?

As far as I am concerned they are already controlling way too many coins with 25%  -- add unclaimed coins to that list and whole thing starts to turn into joke

You still evade a question raised directly to you by one Nemster earlier : why are you happy with JeanLuc and several Nxt whales holding 5% of Nxt each but not NEM developers? I agree that the unclaimed coins should not be under control of the core team. Other than that I see you hold Nxt developers (and worse several whales that do nothing for development) and NEM developers under different standards. Could you answer this direct question are you one of Nxt whale?

NEM: TC2L3G2VREUAZI7SE5WJW7TM6B3DBBKL4DJCO6AA
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June 18, 2014, 07:19:29 PM
 #267

I would like to see a huge pile of NEM get into the hands of average joe without them paying for it,this will make the stakeholders mad since they had to pay for it but average joes won't be spending money to buy NEM when they are not sure about it. Isn't the goal of NEM to help people achieve financial freedom? The more people that have it the greater chance NEM will succeed which will increase the value for the stakeholders.

This is not how real life works. Aurora tried to get adapted as a country coin by distributing them freely, but Icelanders immediately dumped the coins for BTC instead -- crashing the prices immediately.
Where is the adaption? Nowhere.  Anything that is "freely" distributed to a large number of people will have no value -- as anything that is "free" is worthless.  

As  for destroying them, I am happy with that idea, but in reality it's same as distributing them equally to all stakeholders. The net effect is the same.

I just don't want "developers" or the "insiders" to be sitting on 50% of the coins ("locked" or not as why should we trust what they will do next year or year after that?) Why on earth even leave that an option?

As far as I am concerned they are already controlling way too many coins with 25%  -- add unclaimed coins to that list and whole thing starts to turn into joke



There was no proof in how many people received Aurora, it sounded like the dev kept a large amount of them. I said:

[/quote]

I was thinking that when NEM does presentations, hand out paper wallets to people that seem interested and have never used crypto before, samething for our co-workers, friends, neighbors or whoever (even the poor and the under-privileged).
[/quote]

don't just hand them to whomever.

And you don't think people on here with NEMstakes won't be dumping them for BTC?

"anything free is worthless" really? so the time people put in volunteering is worthless?

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June 18, 2014, 07:21:01 PM
 #268

I would like to see a huge pile of NEM get into the hands of average joe without them paying for it,this will make the stakeholders mad since they had to pay for it but average joes won't be spending money to buy NEM when they are not sure about it. Isn't the goal of NEM to help people achieve financial freedom? The more people that have it the greater chance NEM will succeed which will increase the value for the stakeholders.

This is not how real life works. Aurora tried to get adapted as a country coin by distributing them freely, but Icelanders immediately dumped the coins for BTC instead -- crashing the prices immediately.
Where is the adaption? Nowhere.  Anything that is "freely" distributed to a large number of people will have no value -- as anything that is "free" is worthless.  

As  for destroying them, I am happy with that idea, but in reality it's same as distributing them equally to all stakeholders. The net effect is the same.

I just don't want "developers" or the "insiders" to be sitting on 50% of the coins ("locked" or not as why should we trust what they will do next year or year after that?) Why on earth even leave that an option?

As far as I am concerned they are already controlling way too many coins with 25%  -- add unclaimed coins to that list and whole thing starts to turn into joke

You still evade a question raised directly to you by one Nemster earlier : why are you happy with JeanLuc and several Nxt whales holding 5% of Nxt each but not NEM developers? I agree that the unclaimed coins should not be under control of the core team.

Is there any evidence that Jean Luc holds 5%? I know he was originally stakeholder, but its unknown how much BTC he contributed.  Most Nxt developers actually are not original stakeholders and don't hold even 0.1% of Nxt  Wesley is not original stakeholder. Neither is jl77, nor is CYIYAM, btc2nxt, vbecas who are all working on very important AT project that will integrate turing complete language into Nxt -- before etherium.

There are dozens and dozens of other Nxt developers who are writing mobile apps, blockchain explorers, developing websites, games, and doing all kinds of work -- none of them are original stakeholders

Yuu know why they do it? Because some of them bought Nxt with their own money and want it to succeed. The best motivation to put your money where your mouth is.

 In fact what you posted is flat out lie




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June 18, 2014, 07:25:41 PM
 #269

I would like to remind you that this is not a fight between NEM and Nxt so stop acting as such.

If you can help advance the discussion good, if not it would be probably better to refrain from making irrelevant comments.
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June 18, 2014, 07:28:58 PM
 #270

Also, even if we will have a project where we will integrate NEM with a village or a country, we surely do it very differently from what Aurora did.

In fact I think Aurora was a failure on multiple levels. So don't worry about that, we won't do the same mistakes.
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June 18, 2014, 07:39:24 PM
 #271

I would like to see a huge pile of NEM get into the hands of average joe without them paying for it,this will make the stakeholders mad since they had to pay for it but average joes won't be spending money to buy NEM when they are not sure about it. Isn't the goal of NEM to help people achieve financial freedom? The more people that have it the greater chance NEM will succeed which will increase the value for the stakeholders.

This is not how real life works. Aurora tried to get adapted as a country coin by distributing them freely, but Icelanders immediately dumped the coins for BTC instead -- crashing the prices immediately.
Where is the adaption? Nowhere.  Anything that is "freely" distributed to a large number of people will have no value -- as anything that is "free" is worthless.  

As  for destroying them, I am happy with that idea, but in reality it's same as distributing them equally to all stakeholders. The net effect is the same.

I just don't want "developers" or the "insiders" to be sitting on 50% of the coins ("locked" or not as why should we trust what they will do next year or year after that?) Why on earth even leave that an option?

As far as I am concerned they are already controlling way too many coins with 25%  -- add unclaimed coins to that list and whole thing starts to turn into joke

You still evade a question raised directly to you by one Nemster earlier : why are you happy with JeanLuc and several Nxt whales holding 5% of Nxt each but not NEM developers? I agree that the unclaimed coins should not be under control of the core team.

Is there any evidence that Jean Luc holds 5%? I know he was originally stakeholder, but its unknown how much BTC he contributed.  Most Nxt developers actually are not original stakeholders and don't hold even 0.1% of Nxt  Wesley is not original stakeholder. Neither is jl77, nor is CYIYAM, btc2nxt, vbecas who are all working on very important AT project that will integrate turing complete language into Nxt -- before etherium.

There are dozens and dozens of other Nxt developers who are writing mobile apps, blockchain explorers, developing websites, games, and doing all kinds of work -- none of them are original stakeholders

Yuu know why they do it? Because some of them bought Nxt with their own money and want it to succeed. The best motivation to put your money where your mouth is.

In fact what you posted is flat out lie


JeanLuc ran a node with 29 million Nxt and he had at least one more account of 10 million Nxt linked to that account. IT IS the FACT. Blockchain doesn't lie but you do. I am not the one holding double standard but you are and you are blatantly lying to not admit that point.

I am only out to protect the interest of NEM. NEM is nothing without its developers and NEM will be without its developers if we don't treat them well. But if we do the right things all developers CYAM, btc2nxt, vbecas, jl77 and many future ones will choose NEM as the final destination. Obviously that prospect does not look very enticing to Nxt whales and they will try all kind of slandering to prevent that eventuality happening.

NEM: TC2L3G2VREUAZI7SE5WJW7TM6B3DBBKL4DJCO6AA
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June 18, 2014, 07:42:20 PM
 #272

I know it is sometimes difficult to think in the round about these things, and that people quite rightly have a psychological aversion to 'destruction', but isn't option 1 (destruction) just a very simple and elegant way of implementing option 3 (distribution to all stakeholders)?

That's exactly how I see it.
I'm also leaning towards destroying them.
On the other hand I'm not entirely certain that a single NEM will become inevitably more valuable as it becomes more rare.

I'd say use the funds to attract more people to the core team. Hire professional designers, create a marketing commitee, use it to create a complete branding kit, use it to make certain people able to attend events etc etc etc.

Destroying would just be a waste IMO. and giving them away for free to people outside the crypto-community for free would be a bigger mistake as these people would just dump them immediately for som quick cash anyway (which was what happend to auroracoin).

Curecoin, more than just a coin.
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June 18, 2014, 07:45:17 PM
 #273

I have already asked 3 times the same questions in different threads with no clear answers of what is happening and this is not helping the average Joe to get on board... People always redirect me to other discussions of NEM (much appreciated by the way) but why no one is giving me a straight answer without redirect me to some other thread?

So I will ask again...

1. If a buy a NEM stake from NXT AE what exactly do I need to do to claim my NEM coins and get on the stakeholders list and by when?

2. I understand that buying a NEM stake from AE I am buying a token but it is actually now controlled by UF who might run away and basically end up with an asset with no value?

Thanks
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June 18, 2014, 07:49:36 PM
 #274

I have already asked 3 times the same questions in different threads with no clear answers of what is happening and this is not helping the average Joe to get on board... People always redirect me to other discussions of NEM (much appreciated by the way) but why no one is giving me a straight answer without redirect me to some other thread?

So I will ask again...

1. If a buy a NEM stake from NXT AE what exactly do I need to do to claim my NEM coins and get on the stakeholders list and by when?

2. I understand that buying a NEM stake from AE I am buying a token but it is actually now controlled by UF who might run away and basically end up with an asset with no value?

Thanks

My advice is do not ever invest money you can not afford to loose.
As to investing with NEM , Dude that's up to you.
If you are asking us on this forum to say buy buy buy your in the wrong place.


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June 18, 2014, 07:51:57 PM
 #275

I have already asked 3 times the same questions in different threads with no clear answers of what is happening and this is not helping the average Joe to get on board... People always redirect me to other discussions of NEM (much appreciated by the way) but why no one is giving me a straight answer without redirect me to some other thread?

So I will ask again...

1. If a buy a NEM stake from NXT AE what exactly do I need to do to claim my NEM coins and get on the stakeholders list and by when?

2. I understand that buying a NEM stake from AE I am buying a token but it is actually now controlled by UF who might run away and basically end up with an asset with no value?

Thanks


I hope this helps you out and puts your worries at ease:

1. You will never be put on the stakeholders list. With that said tokens purchased on nxt AE are completely valid, and can be redeemed for actual NEM after launch. Figuring out everyone that purchased a token and putting them on AE would just be way too much work for devs, and it really wouldn't help anything anyways. When it comes to claiming the NEM, the devs will give thorough instructions (the claiming of NEM won't happen for months)

2. Patmast3r is in control of the NEM assets, so there is no worry about him running away with the assets, I think he has proven his honesty by now.

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June 18, 2014, 07:53:58 PM
 #276

I have already asked 3 times the same questions in different threads with no clear answers of what is happening and this is not helping the average Joe to get on board... People always redirect me to other discussions of NEM (much appreciated by the way) but why no one is giving me a straight answer without redirect me to some other thread?

So I will ask again...

1. If a buy a NEM stake from NXT AE what exactly do I need to do to claim my NEM coins and get on the stakeholders list and by when?

2. I understand that buying a NEM stake from AE I am buying a token but it is actually now controlled by UF who might run away and basically end up with an asset with no value?

Thanks


Hi!

Let's see.

1. If I understood correctly you won't be on the stakeholders list. You'd have a token which represents 1 (or any other amount) stake. 2 weeks after the official launch you will be able to claim this stake by sending it back to the account which created this asset and he'll send the correct amount to your NEM account.

2. Yes, you will be buying a placeholder token but no, this account isn't in possession of UF anymore. Pastmast3r has the account now.

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June 18, 2014, 07:59:06 PM
 #277

Finally I got the answers I was looking for...

Thank you very much!!!

Last questions:
Quote
2 weeks after the official launch you will be able to claim this stake by sending it back to the account which created this asset and he'll send the correct amount to your NEM account.

When is the expected launch?
How will I send it back to  the account which created the asset? Where do I find this account?
How long will I have to claim my NEM coins? What happen if I am on holidays and I don't claim them on time?

Appologies but I am IT newbie and trying to learn all these...

Again thank you very  much!
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June 18, 2014, 08:00:39 PM
 #278

JeanLuc ran a node with 29 million Nxt and he had at least one more account of 10 million Nxt linked to that account. IT IS the FACT. Blockchain doesn't lie but you do. I am not the one holding double standard but you are and you are blatantly lying to not admit that point.


I wasn't aware of exact number, but that is still not 5%, by the way. He was original stakeholder and played within the rules. In any case, your original claim that all Nxt developers hold 5% each was still a lie.

Quote
I am only out to protect the interest of NEM. NEM is nothing without its developers and NEM will be without its developers if we don't treat them well.

They are getting 25% of Nem already. Why do they 25% more from unclaimed coins?

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June 18, 2014, 08:03:49 PM
 #279

Finally I got the answers I was looking for...

Thank you very much!!!

Last questions:
Quote
2 weeks after the official launch you will be able to claim this stake by sending it back to the account which created this asset and he'll send the correct amount to your NEM account.

When is the expected launch?
How will I send it back to  the account which created the asset? Where do I find this account?
How long will I have to claim my NEM coins? What happen if I am on holidays and I don't claim them on time?

Appologies but I am IT newbie and trying to learn all these...

Again thank you very  much!

The specific information about this process isn't released yet afaik. and neither is the official release date but it's probably going to be around august/september. The closed alpha is scheduled for sunday/monday and the open alpha on the 25th (iirc).

As soon as the specific information about how to claim your token is released I'm sure there will be a detailed guide which everyone can understand about how to claim your NEM Smiley

Hope this answers your questions! Smiley

Curecoin, more than just a coin.
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June 18, 2014, 08:05:45 PM
 #280


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