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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803518 times)
cypherdoc
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June 30, 2014, 04:45:49 AM
 #8981

The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as money - cypherdoc  

note how i might have to start slapping my name on all my memes because of dudes like Zhoutonged.
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June 30, 2014, 04:52:57 AM
 #8982

The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as money-cypherdoc  -
...

That one I'm not so sure about. The bitcoin blockchain is a fantastic timestamped authority of record. Money is memory, so obviously that's a wonderful use (probably the best use). But there are others.

IIRC, your above assertion was original spawned out of a discussion pertaining to sidechains and Ethereum; I think your assertion is more specifically saying that the blockchain may never be applicable to something that's as functionally unbounded as those ideas.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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June 30, 2014, 04:54:32 AM
 #8983

Looks to me like altcoins decoupling inversely to Bitcoin:

...


Yes, indeed. What I think is happening is that, finally, mercifully, the market is understanding that none of the popular alts today offer anything meaningful over bitcoin. So why not just use bitcoin?

A few dynamics are playing out:

1) The litecoin fanboys' idiotic "ASIC-resistant"/scrypt-is-better rationale is finally empirically false (though those of us with just 1/3 of a brain figured that out in 2012). So that entire family tree of coins is now obviously just clones/tweaks.
2) The new crop of anonymity promising coins is getting even the relatively thick-headed to question why these alts that offer nothing over bitcoin command such value. All the discussion of fungibility has raised the anon issue to the surface, and I think many people have realized that it might be the first meaningful "feature" an alt could actually offer. It looked like the test was going to be Zerocoin, but now we're seeing the CryptoNotes supposedly offer this. Whatever the ultimate reality of whether those coins do what they claim, or what may ultimately win that particular use-case battle, the point is that more would-be lite- nxt- dark- feather- junk- coin fanboys are now asking "why?" just a little more deeply. And that's not a good thing for any coin but bitcoin.



You forgot the dynamic where certain Bitcoin only fanboys were saying "Litecoin is doing to die blah blah blah" when Litecoin was $0.005 each in 2012.

Look at how wrong they were.

Of course we are seeing a shift from alts to Bitcoin, but the cycle will continue I believe as long as there is the free-space to have alts.

Don't be surprised if a coin like Litecoin sticks around much longer than some may anticipate. I'm not bullish on Litecoin now but I do believe you will see it bottom out and rebound as it has so many times before.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
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           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
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     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
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June 30, 2014, 04:55:11 AM
 #8984

The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as money - cypherdoc  

note how i might have to start slapping my name on all my memes because of dudes like Zhoutonged.

You should record that in the blockchain  Wink

http://elbitcoin.org - Bitcoin en español
http://mercadobitcoin.com - MercadoBitcoin
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June 30, 2014, 05:01:14 AM
 #8985

The blockchain may only ever be applicable to Bitcoin as money-cypherdoc  -
...

That one I'm not so sure about. The bitcoin blockchain is a fantastic timestamped authority of record. Money is memory, so obviously that's a wonderful use (probably the best use). But there are others.

IIRC, your above assertion was original spawned out of a discussion pertaining to sidechains and Ethereum; I think your assertion is more specifically saying that the blockchain may never be applicable to something that's as functionally unbounded as those ideas.

Yes, as it stands now, services like POE are useful. I'm fully aware of that and i cant be sure of my theory yet.

but imagine a world where bitcoin does in fact become the global reserve currency and block size never grows out of fear of disrupting the protocol. the price of a single bitcoin would skyrocket and a single Satoshi could be worth several thousand.

modifying the  protocol to push the decimal point to the right wouldn't be worth the risk to embed $2.00 items.
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June 30, 2014, 05:17:51 AM
 #8986

Looks to me like altcoins decoupling inversely to Bitcoin:

...


Yes, indeed. What I think is happening is that, finally, mercifully, the market is understanding that none of the popular alts today offer anything meaningful over bitcoin. So why not just use bitcoin?

A few dynamics are playing out:

1) The litecoin fanboys' idiotic "ASIC-resistant"/scrypt-is-better rationale is finally empirically false (though those of us with just 1/3 of a brain figured that out in 2012). So that entire family tree of coins is now obviously just clones/tweaks.
2) The new crop of anonymity promising coins is getting even the relatively thick-headed to question why these alts that offer nothing over bitcoin command such value. All the discussion of fungibility has raised the anon issue to the surface, and I think many people have realized that it might be the first meaningful "feature" an alt could actually offer. It looked like the test was going to be Zerocoin, but now we're seeing the CryptoNotes supposedly offer this. Whatever the ultimate reality of whether those coins do what they claim, or what may ultimately win that particular use-case battle, the point is that more would-be lite- nxt- dark- feather- junk- coin fanboys are now asking "why?" just a little more deeply. And that's not a good thing for any coin but bitcoin.



You forgot the dynamic where certain Bitcoin only fanboys were saying "Litecoin is doing to die blah blah blah" when Litecoin was $0.005 each in 2012.


Only if those who were saying "Litecoin is doing to die blah blah blah" gave a timeframe AND didn't see the potential for a temporary rise due to the then-current ignorance of the community. Being right on the fundamentals often comes with a high-tolerance for waiting until the market catches up with you.



Of course we are seeing a shift from alts to Bitcoin, but the cycle will continue I believe as long as there is the free-space to have alts.


I actually think there is space to have alts as well. But as with the precious-metals market, I think there will only ever be a few that have lasting value, and one that has orders-of-magnitude dominant value.



Don't be surprised if a coin like Litecoin sticks around much longer than some may anticipate. I'm not bullish on Litecoin now but I do believe you will see it bottom out and rebound as it has so many times before.

Litecoin hasn't been faced with the two things I noted above before:
1) Having some of its core misguided thesis irrefutably disproved.
2) The emergence of coins with actual feature-benefits to the ecosystem, not just more me-too clones.

I agree that litecoin will continue to exist, probably with non-trivial value. But if I had to bet at even-money that LTC would be the #2 crypto in 5yrs?...nope.



Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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June 30, 2014, 05:31:02 AM
 #8987

You forgot the dynamic where certain Bitcoin only fanboys were saying "Litecoin is doing to die blah blah blah" when Litecoin was $0.005 each in 2012.
You're measuring the exchange rate of Litecoin in the wrong units.

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=alltime&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e
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June 30, 2014, 05:36:51 AM
 #8988

my favorite one was this one
Bitcoin is not an experiment.   It is a living organism - much like a virus.   It mutates.

...مكتوب
Escape the plutocrats’ zanpakutō, Flower in the Mirror, Moon on the Water: brave “the ascent which is rough and steep” (Plato).
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June 30, 2014, 05:52:58 AM
 #8989

Boom

edit:  is this one better molecular?
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June 30, 2014, 06:50:06 AM
 #8990

Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.
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June 30, 2014, 07:22:00 AM
 #8991

Looks to me like altcoins decoupling inversely to Bitcoin:

...


Yes, indeed. What I think is happening is that, finally, mercifully, the market is understanding that none of the popular alts today offer anything meaningful over bitcoin. So why not just use bitcoin?

A few dynamics are playing out:

1) The litecoin fanboys' idiotic "ASIC-resistant"/scrypt-is-better rationale is finally empirically false (though those of us with just 1/3 of a brain figured that out in 2012). So that entire family tree of coins is now obviously just clones/tweaks.
2) The new crop of anonymity promising coins is getting even the relatively thick-headed to question why these alts that offer nothing over bitcoin command such value. All the discussion of fungibility has raised the anon issue to the surface, and I think many people have realized that it might be the first meaningful "feature" an alt could actually offer. It looked like the test was going to be Zerocoin, but now we're seeing the CryptoNotes supposedly offer this. Whatever the ultimate reality of whether those coins do what they claim, or what may ultimately win that particular use-case battle, the point is that more would-be lite- nxt- dark- feather- junk- coin fanboys are now asking "why?" just a little more deeply. And that's not a good thing for any coin but bitcoin.


Of course there is also NXT which if it works as designed would be superior to bitcoin but bitcoin may have a starting edge that would be hard to overcome even if a better coin where to be invented/launched.
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June 30, 2014, 07:23:27 AM
 #8992

You forgot the dynamic where certain Bitcoin only fanboys were saying "Litecoin is doing to die blah blah blah" when Litecoin was $0.005 each in 2012.
You're measuring the exchange rate of Litecoin in the wrong units.

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/period-charts.php?period=alltime&resolution=day&pair=ltc-btc&market=btc-e

lol when they were $0.005 the exchange rate of BTC to LTC was 0.00075 or lower. Your point?

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
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 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
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     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
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. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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June 30, 2014, 07:28:47 AM
 #8993

Looks to me like altcoins decoupling inversely to Bitcoin:

...


Yes, indeed. What I think is happening is that, finally, mercifully, the market is understanding that none of the popular alts today offer anything meaningful over bitcoin. So why not just use bitcoin?

A few dynamics are playing out:

1) The litecoin fanboys' idiotic "ASIC-resistant"/scrypt-is-better rationale is finally empirically false (though those of us with just 1/3 of a brain figured that out in 2012). So that entire family tree of coins is now obviously just clones/tweaks.
2) The new crop of anonymity promising coins is getting even the relatively thick-headed to question why these alts that offer nothing over bitcoin command such value. All the discussion of fungibility has raised the anon issue to the surface, and I think many people have realized that it might be the first meaningful "feature" an alt could actually offer. It looked like the test was going to be Zerocoin, but now we're seeing the CryptoNotes supposedly offer this. Whatever the ultimate reality of whether those coins do what they claim, or what may ultimately win that particular use-case battle, the point is that more would-be lite- nxt- dark- feather- junk- coin fanboys are now asking "why?" just a little more deeply. And that's not a good thing for any coin but bitcoin.



You forgot the dynamic where certain Bitcoin only fanboys were saying "Litecoin is doing to die blah blah blah" when Litecoin was $0.005 each in 2012.


Only if those who were saying "Litecoin is doing to die blah blah blah" gave a timeframe AND didn't see the potential for a temporary rise due to the then-current ignorance of the community. Being right on the fundamentals often comes with a high-tolerance for waiting until the market catches up with you.



Of course we are seeing a shift from alts to Bitcoin, but the cycle will continue I believe as long as there is the free-space to have alts.


I actually think there is space to have alts as well. But as with the precious-metals market, I think there will only ever be a few that have lasting value, and one that has orders-of-magnitude dominant value.



Don't be surprised if a coin like Litecoin sticks around much longer than some may anticipate. I'm not bullish on Litecoin now but I do believe you will see it bottom out and rebound as it has so many times before.

Litecoin hasn't been faced with the two things I noted above before:
1) Having some of its core misguided thesis irrefutably disproved.
2) The emergence of coins with actual feature-benefits to the ecosystem, not just more me-too clones.

I agree that litecoin will continue to exist, probably with non-trivial value. But if I had to bet at even-money that LTC would be the #2 crypto in 5yrs?...nope.




I can think of one example of a "me-too" clone scenario that worked out well for the clones:

Originator: Ford

Clones: Honda, Toyota, GMC, Kia etc.

So don't think your ideology that crypto coins need to have new features (or be innovative) to be successful.

I too believe there is space to have alts. But nothing is impossible.

Well 5 years out is quite a ways in the crypto space. Who knows, Bitcoin may not be #1 anymore (not that I think that), but it isn't impossible for it to be replaced by something the free-market chooses as the next "Bitcoin".

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
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    d██████████████████████████████æ   
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           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
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June 30, 2014, 08:38:38 AM
 #8994

Who loves Bitcoin!?
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June 30, 2014, 08:44:39 AM
 #8995

Who loves Bitcoin!?
It seems like a lot of people love it.
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June 30, 2014, 02:37:41 PM
 #8996


I can think of one example of a "me-too" clone scenario that worked out well for the clones:

Originator: Ford

Clones: Honda, Toyota, GMC, Kia etc.

So don't think your ideology that crypto coins need to have new features (or be innovative) to be successful.


No, cars are a terrible example since they exhibit no network effect. The fact that my neighbor drives a Honda does not make *my* Honda more directly useful to me.

Your position is kind of a catch-22. If you *really* believe the above, then how can you possibly hold *any* crypto-currency? Your position being true would mean that no crypto could be used as any sort of a store of value whatsoever, which is required for just about all other use-cases to have merit.




Well 5 years out is quite a ways in the crypto space. Who knows, Bitcoin may not be #1 anymore (not that I think that), but it isn't impossible for it to be replaced by something the free-market chooses as the next "Bitcoin".

Yup, nothing's impossible and 5yrs is indeed a long time in crypto. The best we can do is make our own analysis, boil down to probability distributions, and then act accordingly. My assertion above, that there's a >50% chance that litecoin will not be the #2 crypto 5yrs from now, comes out of that process.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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June 30, 2014, 03:33:10 PM
 #8997




http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-30/usd-tumbling-near-2-month-lows
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June 30, 2014, 03:56:55 PM
 #8998

“This is classic asset forfeiture. They’re washing these bitcoin clean, with the seal of approval of the US federal government."

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-36203

Allaire demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what this action represents. a bitcoin doesn't possess the capacity to be washed or cleaned. dollar bills tainted with cocaine residue can be removed from circulation and destroyed. fresh new dollar bills can take their place. now that is cleaning.

bitcoins, otoh, can't be cleaned. each digital representation is agnostic and if they passed through drug related hands then that is the case forever. there is no such thing as cleaning.

the only thing the gov't demonstrated in this case is a willingness to flip drug money for a profit. plain and simple.

and there is nothing wrong with that. as long as they allow other honest users to do the same.
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June 30, 2014, 04:01:45 PM
 #8999

“This is classic asset forfeiture. They’re washing these bitcoin clean, with the seal of approval of the US federal government."

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-36203

Allaire demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what this action represents. a bitcoin doesn't possess the capacity to be washed or cleaned. dollar bills tainted with cocaine residue can be removed from circulation and destroyed. fresh new dollar bills can take their place. now that is cleaning.

bitcoins, otoh, can't be cleaned. each digital representation is agnostic and if they passed through drug related hands then that is the case forever. there is no such thing as cleaning.

the only thing the gov't demonstrated in this case is a willingness to flip drug money for a profit. plain and simple.

and there is nothing wrong with that. as long as they allow other honest users to do the same.

Well, right now they consider it drug 'property', not real money.  Hopefully that will change some day.  But yeah, I don't get all this crap about 'clean' money.  For all I know, the dollar bills in my pocket could have been used by a drug dealer in the past.  But who cares?  Money doesn't care who uses it, or for what purpose.  Plus I have less respect for fiat since it can be printed ad nauseam.
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June 30, 2014, 04:33:08 PM
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“This is classic asset forfeiture. They’re washing these bitcoin clean, with the seal of approval of the US federal government."

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/BL-DGB-36203

Allaire demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what this action represents. a bitcoin doesn't possess the capacity to be washed or cleaned. dollar bills tainted with cocaine residue can be removed from circulation and destroyed. fresh new dollar bills can take their place. now that is cleaning.

bitcoins, otoh, can't be cleaned. each digital representation is agnostic and if they passed through drug related hands then that is the case forever. there is no such thing as cleaning.

the only thing the gov't demonstrated in this case is a willingness to flip drug money for a profit. plain and simple.

and there is nothing wrong with that. as long as they allow other honest users to do the same.
Yup..people haven't realized that this act cleans all 2nd hand coins.

Oh..it's passed through SR? Fuck it..up for auction. U.S Gov has proved it's fungibility via this act
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