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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1936107 times)
cypherdoc
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July 01, 2014, 02:00:32 PM
 #9041


I've  thought about this for years. seems like a  likely eventuality. all it takes is one country to bolt from the cartel for that country to become rich. then they'd all follow.

that part about having to use the yuan first is bogus. no one will ever trust that currency.  
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July 01, 2014, 02:11:59 PM
 #9042


that theory is bogus.

i don't think there is any company in the space who's done more for bitcoin than Bitpay. they've facilitated adoption from the beginning and we wouldn't be nearly as big as we are without them.  they were the pioneers in that area.  what they facilitated was monetary velocity which is critical for any currency, new or old. it doesn't matter if the merchant wanted Bitpay to sell them immediately. there had to be a buyer anyways and the sales are offloading those coins to new holders that value those coins more highly than the merchants. another way to describe it is liquidity. allowing usage of the coins is important.

it's also great that this firm is holding them. they're helping to close the loop. and this isn't double speak from me. what's important is that aggregate demand is increasing throughout the space.

Ok - i take your point, and it makes sense. that the fact they're increasing liquidity, merchant adoption etc. has accelerated bitcoin infrastructure growth and moved us on. Just last year how many merchants accepted it? Very, very few.

Esp. agree with this: 'it's also great that this firm is holding them. they're helping to close the loop'

& 'what's important is that aggregate demand is increasing throughout the space.'

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July 01, 2014, 02:47:05 PM
 #9043


that theory is bogus.

i don't think there is any company in the space who's done more for bitcoin than Bitpay. they've facilitated adoption from the beginning and we wouldn't be nearly as big as we are without them.  they were the pioneers in that area.  what they facilitated was monetary velocity which is critical for any currency, new or old. it doesn't matter if the merchant wanted Bitpay to sell them immediately. there had to be a buyer anyways and the sales are offloading those coins to new holders that value those coins more highly than the merchants. another way to describe it is liquidity. allowing usage of the coins is important.

it's also great that this firm is holding them. they're helping to close the loop. and this isn't double speak from me. what's important is that aggregate demand is increasing throughout the space.

Ok - i take your point, and it makes sense. that the fact they're increasing liquidity, merchant adoption etc. has accelerated bitcoin infrastructure growth and moved us on. Just last year how many merchants accepted it? Very, very few.

Esp. agree with this: 'it's also great that this firm is holding them. they're helping to close the loop'

& 'what's important is that aggregate demand is increasing throughout the space.'


another way to say this, as i've said before, is that Bitcoin is many different things to many different ppl.  it has the ability to satisfy all our needs as hodlers, merchants, or consumers. simultaneously.  someone just said in another thread that Bitcoin's "purpose" is to be spent or transacted with.  no.  for me, right now, it satisfies my wants as a hodler.  but for him, it satisfies his wants as a spender. but it can even do both for me too, simultaneous to my wants as a hodler.  last Nov, i took one of my friends to a pro basketball game.  he's runs a major investment firm and we were talking about Bitcoin.  obviously i was trumpeting the merits of hodling the best performing "asset" of the last 5 yrs and how i was hodling.  but then, just to make the point, i whipped out my Mycelium cold wallet and showed him how i could spontaneously buy a CPK Gyft card and buy him a salad right then and there just to ram home the point that it is liquid also while simultaneously hodling it.

so it doesn't matter what you're doing with it.  the important thing is it's satisfying your wants b/c it's voluntary.  other ppl are seeing that it's voluntary and doesn't force you to feel like you have to spend a withering asset.  this increases aggregate demand.
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July 01, 2014, 03:41:44 PM
 #9044

hey FNG,

what do you think will happen when Bitcoin catches gold for the 2nd time?  Wink
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July 01, 2014, 04:03:56 PM
 #9045

There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.
There's another theory floating around that says that payment processors are a way for new investors get into the market.

In this theory, investors who want to accumulate bitcoins without going through the exchanges instead underwrite a payment processor with their fiat, and take the received bitcoins as it comes in. By and large, the bitcoins the payment processors handle does not reach the exchanges.
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July 01, 2014, 04:05:07 PM
 #9046

There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.
There's another theory floating around that says that payment processors are a way for new investors get into the market.

In this theory, investors who want to accumulate bitcoins without going through the exchanges instead underwrite a payment processor with their fiat, and take the received bitcoins as it comes in. By and large, the bitcoins the payment processors handle does not reach the exchanges.

that's not a theory.  it's a fact.
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July 01, 2014, 04:09:21 PM
 #9047

that's not a theory.  it's a fact.
I heard a rumor that's how Max Keiser ended up with his bitcoins.
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July 01, 2014, 04:53:59 PM
 #9048

...
There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.
...


As others are arguing, more merchant acceptance is a huge win despite the incremental technical selling pressure that could result short-term.

Think of it this way:
The selling pressure is linear. But, if we acknowledge that phenomena like bitcoin roughly follow Metcalfe's Law, we see that the net value added to the ecosystem is polynomial: N^2.

So the net addition to the economy is (N^2) - N, which is always positive (for all N>1).

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
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July 01, 2014, 05:07:56 PM
 #9049

...
There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.
...


As others are arguing, more merchant acceptance is a huge win despite the incremental technical selling pressure that could result short-term.

Think of it this way:
The selling pressure is linear. But, if we acknowledge that phenomena like bitcoin roughly follow Metcalfe's Law, we see that the net value added to the ecosystem is polynomial: N^2.

So the net addition to the economy is (N^2) - N, which is always positive (for all N>1).

Interesting analysis.  And more generally, the net addition to the economy is positive for values of the network-synergy coefficient p > 1 in V ~ Np.  

From the feedback control theory perspective, bitcoin seems to represent a pole in the right half-plane of the world's monetary system.  

Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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July 01, 2014, 05:11:30 PM
 #9050

...
There was a theory floating about that said, using bitpay etc. actually does nothing for the bitcoin community, as it creates selling presure whenever a merchant accepts bitcoin as a means of payment, the btc is converted almost immediately into fiat.
...


As others are arguing, more merchant acceptance is a huge win despite the incremental technical selling pressure that could result short-term.

Think of it this way:
The selling pressure is linear. But, if we acknowledge that phenomena like bitcoin roughly follow Metcalfe's Law, we see that the net value added to the ecosystem is polynomial: N^2.

So the net addition to the economy is (N^2) - N, which is always positive (for all N>1).
utility is everything. The selling pressure today presents a buying opportunity for tomorrow.

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July 01, 2014, 06:21:53 PM
 #9051

grinding higher...
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July 01, 2014, 08:51:16 PM
 #9052

Auction won by a single bidder: https://twitter.com/paulvigna/status/484074892946837504

It's probably worth noting that if USMS ends up auctioning off the rest of their BTC holdings, there's now a confirmed pool of willing but empty-handed bidders waiting.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
But Bitcointalk & /r/bitcoin are heavily censored. bitco.in/forum, forum.bitcoin.com, and /r/btc are open.
Best info on Casascius coins: http://spotcoins.com/casascius
smoothie
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July 01, 2014, 08:59:49 PM
 #9053

Auction won by a single bidder: https://twitter.com/paulvigna/status/484074892946837504

It's probably worth noting that if USMS ends up auctioning off the rest of their BTC holdings, there's now a confirmed pool of willing but empty-handed bidders waiting.

Which means they had to have paid much higher than any of the other bidders were willing. Which I would guess would be 10-20% over spot. So they probably paid 30% or more easily.

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July 01, 2014, 10:01:59 PM
 #9054

hey FNG,

what do you think will happen when Bitcoin catches gold for the 2nd time?  Wink
I'm guessing it will keep going higher..maybe 5 figures before the next pause. Who knows. Bitcoin is market driven and thinly traded..an influx of even a relatively small amount drives it fiercely upwards. Gold is a different beast. Gold is in competition with the $ for the value role on central bank balance sheets. I don't know when that battle will get into full swing.
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July 01, 2014, 10:21:16 PM
 #9055

Auction won by a single bidder: https://twitter.com/paulvigna/status/484074892946837504

It's probably worth noting that if USMS ends up auctioning off the rest of their BTC holdings, there's now a confirmed pool of willing but empty-handed bidders waiting.

It's really weird that they released that information though.
If they say they won't reveal the winners to the public, I'd assume they wouldn't reveal any info at all...
Let's see what's their source.
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July 01, 2014, 10:36:31 PM
 #9056

Auction won by a single bidder: https://twitter.com/paulvigna/status/484074892946837504

It's probably worth noting that if USMS ends up auctioning off the rest of their BTC holdings, there's now a confirmed pool of willing but empty-handed bidders waiting.

It's really weird that they released that information though.
If they say they won't reveal the winners to the public, I'd assume they wouldn't reveal any info at all...
Let's see what's their source.

on coindesk it quotes the usum or what ever it is that sold the btc as saying it. so source is legit.

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okthen
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July 01, 2014, 11:04:19 PM
 #9057

Auction won by a single bidder: https://twitter.com/paulvigna/status/484074892946837504

It's probably worth noting that if USMS ends up auctioning off the rest of their BTC holdings, there's now a confirmed pool of willing but empty-handed bidders waiting.

It's really weird that they released that information though.
If they say they won't reveal the winners to the public, I'd assume they wouldn't reveal any info at all...
Let's see what's their source.

on coindesk it quotes the usum or what ever it is that sold the btc as saying it. so source is legit.

Oh I hadn't seen it on Coindesk, duh.
Thanks for the heads up!
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July 02, 2014, 12:11:04 AM
 #9058

Auction won by a single bidder: https://twitter.com/paulvigna/status/484074892946837504

It's probably worth noting that if USMS ends up auctioning off the rest of their BTC holdings, there's now a confirmed pool of willing but empty-handed bidders waiting.

It's really weird that they released that information though.
If they say they won't reveal the winners to the public, I'd assume they wouldn't reveal any info at all...
Let's see what's their source.

USMS only confirmed info that the bidders could have determined to a high probability if they started swapping stories.  Probably to head off "they didn't really sell em!"  conspiracy theories...
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July 02, 2014, 12:53:48 AM
 #9059

Auction won by a single bidder: https://twitter.com/paulvigna/status/484074892946837504

It's probably worth noting that if USMS ends up auctioning off the rest of their BTC holdings, there's now a confirmed pool of willing but empty-handed bidders waiting.

It's really weird that they released that information though.
If they say they won't reveal the winners to the public, I'd assume they wouldn't reveal any info at all...
Let's see what's their source.

USMS only confirmed info that the bidders could have determined to a high probability if they started swapping stories.  Probably to head off "they didn't really sell em!"  conspiracy theories...
maybe they didnt?

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zeetubes
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July 02, 2014, 01:11:55 AM
 #9060

Auction won by a single bidder: https://twitter.com/paulvigna/status/484074892946837504

It's probably worth noting that if USMS ends up auctioning off the rest of their BTC holdings, there's now a confirmed pool of willing but empty-handed bidders waiting.

It's really weird that they released that information though.
If they say they won't reveal the winners to the public, I'd assume they wouldn't reveal any info at all...
Let's see what's their source.

USMS only confirmed info that the bidders could have determined to a high probability if they started swapping stories.  Probably to head off "they didn't really sell em!"  conspiracy theories...
maybe they didnt?

I wonder if any central banks/countries used a proxy to bid for the coins.
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