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Author Topic: [ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000  (Read 2170901 times)
Elmit
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BURST got Smart Contracts (AT)


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September 08, 2015, 03:42:53 AM
 #22481

BinLaden has pointed out that there is a threat to the coin. NOT necessary he is the threat, but if nothing changes, than he is in the pool position.

He pointed out what should be done.

I don't care if HE is a developer or an advisor, anybody can help, anybody can add opinions.

Facts are:
1. Dev team is gone
2. therefore no new features to expect
3. therefore no Angel investors interested
4. the price gone done
5. the network size is low
6. the low price makes mining an expensive hobby
7. by holding the coin in your wallet, makes the coin useless
8. we need reasons to use the coin, that can be markets, features, ...

9. we should move quickly

Ing. Ronald Wiplinger (@ ELMIT)   Blog and pools: http://mininghere.com  CAT info at: https://cat.elmit.com  Tel.: (O) +886 (0)2--2623-3117, (M) +886 (0) 988--70-77-42, Telegram: @RonaldPhone
Elmit
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BURST got Smart Contracts (AT)


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September 08, 2015, 03:47:32 AM
 #22482


1) I think this is a big mistake Bitladen made and, if implemented, can have negative effects on the confidence on the leadership. However, I see no problem that he shows his other side and contribute with his technical knowledge. As he obviously have a botnet, all features he contributes to have to reviewed extensively; I don't want my machines to be part of his network.

I never said I had a botnet. What if I do? In any case I am neither confirming nor denying it.

But let's get one thing clear, it's you who need my help. If you ask me nicely I will help. You are in no position to be demanding me anything.

1. there is no LEADERSHIP
2. it seems if your arguments are exhausted, then you bring your experience as botnet operator in - I assume you operate one, since only you are talking about them. I think that Haitch_**** are botnets.

Ing. Ronald Wiplinger (@ ELMIT)   Blog and pools: http://mininghere.com  CAT info at: https://cat.elmit.com  Tel.: (O) +886 (0)2--2623-3117, (M) +886 (0) 988--70-77-42, Telegram: @RonaldPhone
crowetic
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September 08, 2015, 03:50:58 AM
 #22483

Paying for the servers is not a problem - I believe in this coin and want to do anything I can to help it succeed.

You know my thoughts on the block reward - resync it to a 1%/month devaluation.

Bitladen has threatened to destroy the coin - he can't be involved in the development of the coin.

 

Yea, paying for servers isn't a problem for you, for now. It wasn't a problem for me for most of the time either. However, regardless, does it make sense to keep paying for servers for something that isn't being developed, and doesn't even have people willing to come up with a plan to counter bitladen's/mine?

Okay, I do know your thoughts on block reward, and it isn't a bad plan, and could possibly help the situation, but who is going to do this? How will it take place? What are the plans after? These are the things that must be discussed.

Threatening in public as a way to broaden people's thoughts on what is possible, and point out that there ARE some security issues that could be fixed fairly easily by getting a larger network, and simply being the frontman badguy, I still don't see this as a problem. If he is pointing out something that could legitimately happen, and saying he will only do it if it gets to the point that it is possible... but yet also saying... I'm willing to help, I'm willing to give use for the coin, I'm willing to provide core development for FREE, this doesn't sound like a person who is hostile to me. It sounds like someone who has a very direct way of pointing certain things out, yes. But it doesn't sound like someone who is out to destroy the coin. It sounds like someone who knows that there are possibly other people in positions near his own, and maybe these people aren't as up front about the possibilities of the said attack.

let us pretend for a moment, that bitladen isn't the only one with the possibility to do this. Let us also pretend that this person has already plotted multiple accounts. Let us also pretend that this person is totally hostile, and does this kind of stuff simply because they think it is fun, and has no reason behind it other than that. Will this person not attack the network if it is possible for them?

Allowing the network to continue to decrease in size is BAD. The problem, is coming up with a way to reverse the process. You and I both agree that a change in the block reward could do this, we just have different ideas on how much, and how so, and WHO will do it.

I don't immediately say that I'll never support someone who has pointed out an issue with a network, in public, and at the same time suggests a way to fix it, that makes sense.

I have yet to hear anyone say that the plan doesn't make sense. Only that they either think it would be a breach of contract, or that it would be bad (without any real reason.)


If you're totally wanting the coin to survive at all costs, wouldn't those costs include possibly working with someone that you may not necessarily be entirely 100% for in all ways? Does it really matter THAT much that the way he chose to point out that there is a possible security risk, is by being able and willing to exploit it and prove it? You can think of him as a 'pentester' for normal style networks. Right?

I just refuse to take this so called threat as a real threat, not only because it is out in the open, but also because he has suggested a way to fix it, and not only that, volunteered to help implement it.


If he were solely out for his own gain, would he do this? Would he not only want to change the reward structure, but ALSO, implement an extremely good reason for many people to USE the coin? Is this not what many people have said (including you) would bring the 'value' to the coin?


I don't know, I guess I just don't look at him as a negative thing. To me, if he were truly a negative only, he would have plotted anonymously, and continued to increase his power as much as possible, and bide his time, just waiting while the network decreases in size, not coming in to warn people that there is the possibility of this attack, and just attack when he can.

He most certainly wouldn't have offered to help by developing for the coin, and not solely by changing the reward.


If he had come in and suggested he develop for the coin, and given nothing more than "I'll change the reward", I wouldn't have supported that. But he didn't. He came in with many ideas, which I combined with my own, and came up with a structured plan, a future structure suggested, containing almost everything that every community request for change has included. A roadmap with details, a suggestion for changes, and reasoning as to why those changes would do what we think they'll do, structure for the team, and ideas to make things more functional, a way to fund the dev team and give ability for promotion, hiring of other devs, and more...

but all we can do is sit here and say "he's the enemy"? Sorry but I really can't see it that way.

I have had many conversations with him, directly. I can say for sure that he isn't against the coin. He would prefer to implement the changes in BURST as opposed to a clone, because he would like to see the coin succeed. The same reason as me.

The change in block reward is hardly a breach in contract. There was never a contract. Many coins have changed their reward structure, and even you are for a change in that.


So what we're mostly not agreeing on, is the person. To this I still say the same... Who else? Do we even have any way to be able to show a way to FIND someone else? Do you really think that not only are we going to find someone, but they're going to work for free, and not only that, but BUY coins, so that they can work for free, and hope that their work is enough to give enough future value to the coin to make it worthwhile... This seems an almost impossible task.

I am all for the coin having a healthy future, but the amount of other coins out there that are currently much more popular than BURST, do you really think that without some changes, maybe some fundamental ones, that it is going to magically become what we all want it to be?

Hope alone isn't going to accomplish this.

Fighting his attack by delisting the coin from exchanges is suicide. As you said yourself. So are we going to really do this?

I want to know how else we are going to get the network to stop declining.



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ORTAL
    ..Web and Application hosting.
     ⊙ decentralized infrastructure
    ..leveling and voting.
| https://qortal.org - Infrastructure for the future World
            Founder/current dev group facilitator
[/td][/tr][/table]

[/table]
Elmit
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BURST got Smart Contracts (AT)


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September 08, 2015, 03:52:06 AM
 #22484

So it becomes dead coin - a replacement coin will pop up, and we miners switch. If you want to do good for this coin, stop threatening to kill it, and offer something to boost it


He did, ... just read!!!

Ing. Ronald Wiplinger (@ ELMIT)   Blog and pools: http://mininghere.com  CAT info at: https://cat.elmit.com  Tel.: (O) +886 (0)2--2623-3117, (M) +886 (0) 988--70-77-42, Telegram: @RonaldPhone
yeponlyone
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September 08, 2015, 03:53:09 AM
 #22485


1) I think this is a big mistake Bitladen made and, if implemented, can have negative effects on the confidence on the leadership. However, I see no problem that he shows his other side and contribute with his technical knowledge. As he obviously have a botnet, all features he contributes to have to reviewed extensively; I don't want my machines to be part of his network.

I never said I had a botnet. What if I do? In any case I am neither confirming nor denying it.

But let's get one thing clear, it's you who need my help. If you ask me nicely I will help. You are in no position to be demanding me anything.

You have a dying coin, you need help. I can provide. You have my terms, take it or leave it.
And yes, please do review my code, or anybody else's for that matter, before you run it on your machine.

You might be a botnet master, but you surely do not have a master in communication. Learn the basics. This is purely embarrassing for you.

Quoting myself: "Contribute and you shall be accepted".
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September 08, 2015, 03:54:58 AM
 #22486

You might be a botnet master, but you surely do not have a master in communication. Learn the basics. This is purely embarrassing for you.

Quoting myself: "Contribute and you shall be accepted".

better yet, don't accept me and be destroyed. even if I don't attack, you're doing a great job destroying yourselves.

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September 08, 2015, 04:01:17 AM
 #22487

1. No mining account was ever about 28% ... thats quite far away from 51% ...
2. BurstDev, never said that he quit! True, he did not respond for a few weeks.
3. NO PREMINE, 5% reward reduce, thats the contract i signed :-)
(Sending a % from every block to a whatever account is a 'premine')
yeponlyone
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September 08, 2015, 04:03:07 AM
 #22488

You might be a botnet master, but you surely do not have a master in communication. Learn the basics. This is purely embarrassing for you.

Quoting myself: "Contribute and you shall be accepted".

better yet, don't accept me and be destroyed. even if I don't attack, you're doing a great job destroying yourselves.

So you are really not ready to reconsider your standpoint that the coin needs you no matter what? Well, the coin might need you. in some degree or a whole lot, but you have +90% of the community against you.

How to change that, the botnet master might ask? Start showing what you have to offer the community, and the community will follow if you do what you promise.

BTW, for every considerable progress you provide, I can promise a well-spread PR (talk to crowetic for details).
yeponlyone
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September 08, 2015, 04:06:27 AM
 #22489

1. No mining account was ever about 28% ... thats quite far away from 51% ...
2. BurstDev, never said that he quit! True, he did not respond for a few weeks.
3. NO PREMINE, 5% reward reduce, thats the contract i signed :-)
(Sending a % from every block to a whatever account is a 'premine')


It's not a premine as the devs during more than a year proven their dedication and ability to innovation.

To take further steps will need funds.

And contracts can be negotiated. Wink 10% or what ever is way too much.
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September 08, 2015, 04:06:52 AM
 #22490

You might be a botnet master, but you surely do not have a master in communication. Learn the basics. This is purely embarrassing for you.

Quoting myself: "Contribute and you shall be accepted".

better yet, don't accept me and be destroyed. even if I don't attack, you're doing a great job destroying yourselves.

So you are really not ready to reconsider your standpoint that the coin needs you no matter what? Well, the coin might need you. in some degree or a whole lot, but you have +90% of the community against you.

How to change that, the botnet master might ask? Start showing what you have to offer the community, and the community will follow if you do what you promise.

BTW, for every considerable progress you provide, I can promise a well-spread PR (talk to crowetic for details).

Only 90% against me that's kinda low. I'm sure I can achieve 100%.

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September 08, 2015, 04:07:36 AM
 #22491

Ok I have a hardcore idea listen up:

1) The dev or a more sr. member here starts a crowfunding to collect 2-3 bitcoins
2) The person then starts a sig campaign on this forum for full members & above advertising BURST, the BURST forum, or the BURST site, or all 3 of them
3) Tons of new investors/participants/speculators will be interested, and price will be pumped probably above 100 satoshi
4) Miner reward problem resolves, as now miners will be more profitable, more will come, and 51% attack will be unlikely

What do you think people?



(Otherwise just keep buying BURST & its ASSETS)

This isn't a bad idea, however it still leaves us without someone who will be willing to commit to future core development of the coin. Not a bad idea tho, and we might do this regardless to test it out.



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ORTAL
    ..Web and Application hosting.
     ⊙ decentralized infrastructure
    ..leveling and voting.
| https://qortal.org - Infrastructure for the future World
            Founder/current dev group facilitator
[/td][/tr][/table]

[/table]
bitladen
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September 08, 2015, 04:09:21 AM
 #22492

1. No mining account was ever about 28% ... thats quite far away from 51% ...
2. BurstDev, never said that he quit! True, he did not respond for a few weeks.
3. NO PREMINE, 5% reward reduce, thats the contract i signed :-)
(Sending a % from every block to a whatever account is a 'premine')


It's not a premine as the devs during more than a year proven their dedication and ability to innovation.

To take further steps will need funds.

And contracts can be negotiated. Wink 10% or what ever is way too much.

But did you do the math before making this statement?
.10*5400*360*.00000032*240=14.9299200000

A whopping $15 a day. I must withdraw from this contest, I'm sure you can find lots of developers willing to work for $15 a day, or as you say, even for less. You don't need me at all.

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September 08, 2015, 04:14:26 AM
 #22493

Ok I have a hardcore idea listen up:

1) The dev or a more sr. member here starts a crowfunding to collect 2-3 bitcoins
2) The person then starts a sig campaign on this forum for full members & above advertising BURST, the BURST forum, or the BURST site, or all 3 of them
3) Tons of new investors/participants/speculators will be interested, and price will be pumped probably above 100 satoshi
4) Miner reward problem resolves, as now miners will be more profitable, more will come, and 51% attack will be unlikely

What do you think people?



(Otherwise just keep buying BURST & its ASSETS)

This isn't a bad idea, however it still leaves us without someone who will be willing to commit to future core development of the coin. Not a bad idea tho, and we might do this regardless to test it out.

Not that I'm against it, but I do fail to see how this would work. Spamming the forum about BURST will make people buy it, do I understand this correctly?

yeponlyone
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September 08, 2015, 04:14:58 AM
 #22494

You might be a botnet master, but you surely do not have a master in communication. Learn the basics. This is purely embarrassing for you.

Quoting myself: "Contribute and you shall be accepted".

better yet, don't accept me and be destroyed. even if I don't attack, you're doing a great job destroying yourselves.

So you are really not ready to reconsider your standpoint that the coin needs you no matter what? Well, the coin might need you. in some degree or a whole lot, but you have +90% of the community against you.

How to change that, the botnet master might ask? Start showing what you have to offer the community, and the community will follow if you do what you promise.

BTW, for every considerable progress you provide, I can promise a well-spread PR (talk to crowetic for details).

Only 90% against me that's kinda low. I'm sure I can achieve 100%.


I am not against you. Crowetic isn't.

But you made mistakes from the very beginning in communication.

We have a common problem: Why not reason over it, seeking step-by-step solutions?

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September 08, 2015, 04:15:33 AM
 #22495

Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun the read heads of a large array of plotted HDDs.
-Mao Tse Tung

I'm not a miner, and not a huge holder. I never had extra TBs lying around, and it was far easier for me to spend a couple hundred bucks trading coins than spending that money plus a lot of time setting up HDDs for mining. With that being said, I agree with Haitch and luxe - threatening to destroy the system you're proposing to improve doesn't exactly provide the impetus for much faith and goodwill from the other members of the system you have designs on commandeering. Also, 10% seems like a huge amount for a dev fund, but hey, I guess ETH got away with it. I do agree something probably needs to be done, in the face of an operational system released by Siacoin (which is about to pass BURST in price per coin, btw), but I don't think it's going to accomplished by negotiating with terrorists to give them control of 10% of the money supply created from here on out and agreeing with their demands to inflate the money supply. I honestly don't have any idea what should be done at this point, but just wanted to chime in that I tend to agree with luxe and Haitch.
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September 08, 2015, 04:17:14 AM
 #22496

1. No mining account was ever about 28% ... thats quite far away from 51% ...
2. BurstDev, never said that he quit! True, he did not respond for a few weeks.
3. NO PREMINE, 5% reward reduce, thats the contract i signed :-)
(Sending a % from every block to a whatever account is a 'premine')


It's not a premine as the devs during more than a year proven their dedication and ability to innovation.

To take further steps will need funds.

And contracts can be negotiated. Wink 10% or what ever is way too much.

But did you do the math before making this statement?
.10*5400*360*.00000032*240=14.9299200000

A whopping $15 a day. I must withdraw from this contest, I'm sure you can find lots of developers willing to work for $15 a day, or as you say, even for less. You don't need me at all.

If we will get this to work, it will not be 15 bucks. Don't play stupid.
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September 08, 2015, 04:22:25 AM
 #22497

If we will get this to work, it will not be 15 bucks. Don't play stupid.

Indeed, let's not play stupid. What if you don't get it to work. Then all the work would be for free?
As stated in my proposal, the dev funds will go to a member you all trust, not to me. In case you might think that.

And should some of that money ever be awarded to me, that's not for me to decide. You might as well hire somebody else once you get a decent dev fund, and get rid of me. In fact that's why I came up with the idea in the first place.

And from the current $15 amount to a huge amount it's a long way. Huge would be what? $5000? Even that's not huge, you can hire 15-30 good devs with that. Should you ever reach that point, you could use that kind of dev team. There would be lots of work to be done.

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September 08, 2015, 04:23:50 AM
 #22498

Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun the read heads of a large array of plotted HDDs.
-Mao Tse Tung

I'm not a miner, and not a huge holder. I never had extra TBs lying around, and it was far easier for me to spend a couple hundred bucks trading coins than spending that money plus a lot of time setting up HDDs for mining. With that being said, I agree with Haitch and luxe - threatening to destroy the system you're proposing to improve doesn't exactly provide the impetus for much faith and goodwill from the other members of the system you have designs on commandeering. Also, 10% seems like a huge amount for a dev fund, but hey, I guess ETH got away with it. I do agree something probably needs to be done, in the face of an operational system released by Siacoin (which is about to pass BURST in price per coin, btw), but I don't think it's going to accomplished by negotiating with terrorists to give them control of 10% of the money supply created from here on out and agreeing with their demands to inflate the money supply. I honestly don't have any idea what should be done at this point, but just wanted to chime in that I tend to agree with luxe and Haitch.

Bitladen shouldn't be executive concerning those funds. He will be a dev among others, working and showing his skills. With time, his and others contributions will add to the coin and change it.
yeponlyone
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September 08, 2015, 04:26:19 AM
 #22499

We agreed on something, bitladen Wink
bitladen
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September 08, 2015, 04:28:20 AM
 #22500

Bitladen shouldn't be executive concerning those funds. He will be a dev among others, working and showing his skills. With time, his and others contributions will add to the coin and change it.

I never asked for that.
But for some reason you would like me to be eager to please. Well I'm NOT. I make .15btc a day with 2PB. Doesn't make me eager at all, hence I don't seek to please you (you as in the community).
Without the reward change I can't imagine that I ever will. As in, I doubt the coin value will go 10x sometime in the future, or even 5x. I can only see it falling, and with rewards decreasing as well, a miner can only hope for the hashrate to drop, which is not sustainable, due to the 51% attack vulnerability.

So indeed, let's not play stupid. Alright?

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