[ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000

[ivanf]

Check the last posts of burstcoin dev, he did not like the idea of changing the block reward: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=364787;sa=showPosts

I still haven't got an answer, why do you guys think that tinkering with the block reward would bring more miners? The price will drop even more. The trust will be lost as well because the basic parameters are so easily changed. Developing coin features and keeping the development steady matters more, imho.

This sounds far more reasonable to me:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=731923.msg12385695#msg12385695
Maybe the author of that post could lead the development?

[Elmit]

The last days this thread includes proposals, and counter proposals.
One side says the others are idiots.

In the meantime the coin price is going further down.

You are dreaming of an investor, but you have nothing to convince a potential investor.
If you tell an investor that you have the best product, then he will tell you, that you need a marketing guy.
If you tell an investor that you want to develop some more features, then he will tell you, you should a marketing forecast. If convinced, he might invest.
If you tell an investor about BURST, he might answer what is that?
If you tell an investor about low cost mining, then he might ask and what can you do with the coins?

....

All what we have is a dream! Investors are not dreamers!
You need to prepare some documents, some convincing forecasts.

We hear, BURST is great! - How great? (in numbers, in US$ and why?)
We hear, BURST has features! - Which one? (How do they compare to other coin's features?)
We hear, the value WILL go up, therefore I hold on the coin. Investor gives a damn what the coin is doing in a year, how is it performing in the next two months, what is the plan, ...

If you think in investments of 100 US$, then keep on dreaming. If you think in investments in 100,000s or millions, then you need to prepare GOOD documents, excel sheets and PROOF each number!
It needs also a document how you want to run the funding, how you give them controls over their investment. Why they can trust you.
To put Crow into the front line and say, that his "Trust" on Bitcointalk is higher than others would not be taken serious.
The investor wants to know why he can trust you, as company, as person, as manager, as developer. Do you have a past record to show?

For one of my previous company I got 6 million US$ investment. It needed a half year writing the documents, two different sets of CPAs were involved. Endless meetings. Further you need to be able to answer the future planning, the exit strategy, ...

What do we have? Just insults to each other of not understanding "what I said".

Crow made a start with his document, but not many constructive answers came to his proposal.

[Elmit]

Even if BitLaden and Elmit are right, why fixing burstcoin on force?
I am against it.

Why dont you make your own coin and promote it and preosper on it, I will join for sure.

This is soooo suspicious when you force that hard to change something in the name of community.

BitLaden, you have a knowledge and hashpower, do it, and invite us to join you, not forcing others to change.

There is no force included.

Sure it is possible to make another coin. However, if this coin is successful, then BURST is definitely dead.
It's up to you if you want to discuss or do something.

[ivanf]

In fact I like bitladen's idea of a coin based on CryptoNote+PoC+floating rewards, but imho any of these are too radical changes for burst. It would be interesting as a new coin.

[Elmit]

See for yourself, do you think we should just wait:

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 10:24:48 UTC
Block: 141,565
Difficulty: 7,750
Est. Networksize (PB): 8.1260931326383

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 12:27:44 UTC
Block: 141,594
Difficulty: 7,052
Est. Networksize (PB): 7.3944100609821

[haitch]

See for yourself, do you think we should just wait:

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 10:24:48 UTC
Block: 141,565
Difficulty: 7,750
Est. Networksize (PB): 8.1260931326383

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 12:27:44 UTC
Block: 141,594
Difficulty: 7,052
Est. Networksize (PB): 7.3944100609821

Current time: 2015-09-11 14:00:00 UTC
Block: 141,613
Difficulty: 12,973
Est. Networksize (PB): 9.787

Did you have a point, or are you doing your best chicken Little impersonation ?

[Elmit]

See for yourself, do you think we should just wait:

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 10:24:48 UTC
Block: 141,565
Difficulty: 7,750
Est. Networksize (PB): 8.1260931326383

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 12:27:44 UTC
Block: 141,594
Difficulty: 7,052
Est. Networksize (PB): 7.3944100609821

Current time: 2015-09-11 14:00:00 UTC
Block: 141,613
Difficulty: 12,973
Est. Networksize (PB): 9.787

Did you have a point, or are you doing your best chicken Little impersonation ?

It is always amazing, that people who always say they block me, are the first who have something to criticise, ...
Good job!
Now go back to your room and play with your toys.

[BurstIncomeAsset]

Yes we need to push back the network size to the 4 months ago levels of 16 TB

http://burstcoin.biz/charts/estimated-network-size

I see that both network size drop , and the BURST price drop has stopped. This might be good news for BURST.

Also the INCOME asset has really taken off lately, the spread shrunk to 1 BURST, and the daily volume just exploded.


I feel that the tides turn for BURST and everything will be resolved soon! 

[Elmit]

See for yourself, do you think we should just wait:

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 10:24:48 UTC
Block: 141,565
Difficulty: 7,750
Est. Networksize (PB): 8.1260931326383

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 12:27:44 UTC
Block: 141,594
Difficulty: 7,052
Est. Networksize (PB): 7.3944100609821

Current time: 2015-09-11 14:00:00 UTC
Block: 141,613
Difficulty: 12,973
Est. Networksize (PB): 9.787

Did you have a point, or are you doing your best chicken Little impersonation ?

Please note your time of writing and what you quote.

[newuser01]

See for yourself, do you think we should just wait:

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 10:24:48 UTC
Block: 141,565
Difficulty: 7,750
Est. Networksize (PB): 8.1260931326383

Pool Statistics
Current time: 2015-09-11 12:27:44 UTC
Block: 141,594
Difficulty: 7,052
Est. Networksize (PB): 7.3944100609821

Did u just compare the difficulty two hours apart to prove a point?

You have got to be trolling.. Have you never heard of difficulty retargetting?


stop acting like you know everything when so much that comes out of your mouth is just bullshit.

[pinballdude]

If I would be an investor, then your words did not open my wallet ;-)

That is no problem. Usually there are several ways to do things, and thus you cannot get all investors on board. If you have a story that will work with another group or investors, then it would be very good for burst to have more than one company based on trying to make money off burst tech. and creating burst tech. The companies will each attract investors. some investors will invest in all companies, some will invest in only some of them.   Suppose your company aims to beat ebay with a decent crypto similar thing, and crowetic's company want to establish the crypto equivalent to a brokerage service.. i'd like both ideas and perhaps buy shares in both companies. I can put more money in the two than in a single one of them, as being in two companies reduces risk.  I also know that both companies are doing a lot to be as beautiful as possible, as they know the investors have an alternative if they get sloppy.

[pinballdude]

At some point the coins generated will be less than the buying pressure on the markets. From that point on, the price will rise. (assuming we get enough features in, and enough marketing out, that the world wants to use the coin at all)

We do have great features, and still nobody wants the coin! AT, crowdfunding, lottery, assets, escrow, ...

I believe only a targeted marketing could bring us to such a point. For this more than two people on Twitter are necessary!

i do not agree with the nobody, but i agree a lot with the last sentence,  targeted marketing...  We are both businessmen, and we both know that we can't land a customer unless he knows about our product. Hardly anyone knows about burst, even though the marketing team has been doing a very, very, very good job. We have gotten the miner's attention alright with petabytes of hashes, but we have had a bit more trouble reaching the end users of the coin, as well as the investors. They don't scan the scene as thoroughly as miners do.

[pinballdude]

I want the coin. I mine and hold bc i see value.
i am not alone, not at all alone.
even with only the feature set today, the coin could be worth a lot more, if services were built up around it.
Also, it is evident that there ARE buyers on the exchanges, so i would assume that lower selling pressure will translate into rising prices at some point. Before bitladen had his 2tb and dumped them, we were above 100 sat.  That might be because the miners back then mostly mined and held. Perhaps bitladen is planning to sell his 2TB and buy a lot of burst on the cheap, that is almost the only thing that makes sense reg. what he has done over time. He could not drive the price down much more effectively than he has done.

I am not convinced ;-)
Why do you want the coin? The price is dropping, you cannot buy many things with it, you cannot use it - So why do you want it NOW?
If I look at the exchanges, there is an order book for buying of 1.68 BTC on Bittrex and 4.35 BTC on Poloniex, BUT there are sell orders of 1108 and 64 BTC.
I see that not as a great buying.
I can not see a proof of your argument that BinLaden moved the price down. Can you?
Miners are not investors, they need to pay the bill and will always do that with the mined coins!

These are the main reasons why i want the coin :

• no premine, everyone was on equal footing from the beginning, no pot of PM gold that devs and community is constantly figthing over
• finite amount of coins - makes it a good store of value , you don't even need to have an online wallet to store your wealth
• decentralized asset exchange - this can evolve into totally taking over a lot of brokerage and lawyer stuff :
  a) storing ownership in the burst chain is a lot safer than in a safe in a lawyer or accountants office
  b) getting your company traded on an exchange is way cheaper with burst than the old fashioned systems
  c) and ownership is pseudonomus and worldwide and outside threats from governements
• marketplace - we can make selling stuff really easy, based on burst. potential for webshops etc.
• non-power-intensive mining  -  for now, this has meant that we have quite a decentralized mining situation, many many miners. You can mine with spare space and get free money that way
• quick response time - blocks every 4 minutes make things go relatively quickly compared to BTC
• potential for file storage later on, potential for lots of crazy shit, and due to java, development can be a lot faster than c/c++

edit : i am a markup language mongol

These are my personal thoughts, and other people can have other thoughts about this

my main concern, which is major, is that we don't have a solid software development process documented,  it was not that important when burstcoin did the coordination in a dictatorial way, but it will be needed if we decentralize development and reduce risk by having a core group of developers / testers /guardians, and then a lot more developers that fix individual issues, and add individual features as per pull requests and core group acceptance.

On top of the sw dev process, i also miss a battery of unit tests, and documentation and guidelines for testing, we'll need that, but the core team will probably put that as a priority once they are established, so it will get done.

[BurstIncomeAsset]

I want the coin. I mine and hold bc i see value.
i am not alone, not at all alone.
even with only the feature set today, the coin could be worth a lot more, if services were built up around it.
Also, it is evident that there ARE buyers on the exchanges, so i would assume that lower selling pressure will translate into rising prices at some point. Before bitladen had his 2tb and dumped them, we were above 100 sat.  That might be because the miners back then mostly mined and held. Perhaps bitladen is planning to sell his 2TB and buy a lot of burst on the cheap, that is almost the only thing that makes sense reg. what he has done over time. He could not drive the price down much more effectively than he has done.

I am not convinced ;-)
Why do you want the coin? The price is dropping, you cannot buy many things with it, you cannot use it - So why do you want it NOW?
If I look at the exchanges, there is an order book for buying of 1.68 BTC on Bittrex and 4.35 BTC on Poloniex, BUT there are sell orders of 1108 and 64 BTC.
I see that not as a great buying.
I can not see a proof of your argument that BinLaden moved the price down. Can you?
Miners are not investors, they need to pay the bill and will always do that with the mined coins!

These are the main reasons why i want the coin :

• no premine, everyone was on equal footing from the beginning, no pot of PM gold that devs and community is constantly figthing over
  
• finite amount of coins - makes it a good store of value , you don't even need to have an online wallet to store your wealth
• decentralized asset exchange - this can evolve into totally taking over a lot of brokerage and lawyer stuff :
  a) storing ownership in the burst chain is a lot safer than in a safe in a lawyer or accountants office
  b) getting your company traded on an exchange is way cheaper with burst than the old fashioned systems
  c) and ownership is pseudonomus and worldwide and outside threats from governements
  

marketplace - we can make selling stuff really easy, based on burst. potential for webshops etc.
[/li][/list]non-power-intensive mining  -  for now, this has meant that we have quite a decentralized mining situation, many many miners. You can mine with spare space and get free money that way
[/li][/list]quick response time - blocks every 4 minutes make things go relatively quickly compared to BTC
[/li][/list]potential for file storage later on, potential for lots of crazy shit, and due to java, development can be a lot faster than c/c++
[/list]

These are my personal thoughts, and other people can have other thoughts about this

I perfectly agree with you there. I do hold some NXT personally, and I obvserved that, at the moment, BURST is more advantageous than NXT.

I use both so I like both, but just in terms of price, it is easier to setup a business in BURST than NXT. Even if we are talking about the asset exchange (or the marketplace). An asset creation costs 1000 BURST which is roughly 7 $ cents.

How is this not a major money magnet? Set up your business for only 7 cents? It is the ultimate form or innovation and cost-efficiency.

Be that a gambling site, a marketplace, a service asset, or various other forms of crypto-businesses.

This is why I particularly favor BURST above NXT. (Indeed it has more features, like the escrow, subscirption & AT, but I like this side of it more)

[Yanakitu Tenatako]

Even if BitLaden and Elmit are right, why fixing burstcoin on force?
I am against it.

Why dont you make your own coin and promote it and preosper on it, I will join for sure.

This is soooo suspicious when you force that hard to change something in the name of community.

BitLaden, you have a knowledge and hashpower, do it, and invite us to join you, not forcing others to change.

There is no force included.

Sure it is possible to make another coin. However, if this coin is successful, then BURST is definitely dead.
It's up to you if you want to discuss or do something.

It is natural selection, make better/stronger coin and it will eat burst.
Don't force burst to surrender to be eaten alive by threats of 51% attack.

BitLaden already sold all of his burst. Why the hell is he now so loud.
He can mine, and can provide 51% attack and can write or threat or beg every single fu*king day on this topic, instead of being active on something usefull.

Wanna do something, go ahead. Execute 51% attack, kill burst and prove you are the man.
Be the boss. Stop crying around do that, do this, increase reward, give me more burst, I wanna be no1 or this coin is dead.
Make it dead. Kill it. Go ahead. Stop being a crying pu**y over the burst.

Nooo, he is a good guy, he wants to help us. Yeah, right.... please stop helping.


I am in top 10 of burst richlist, and will not give you my burst.
Also, I will not allow you to execute 51% attack.
I really suspect you have more $$$ than me to buy hdds.

Just want to say in cool way F*CK YOU, you are NOT the boss, in kind of polite way.

Go on, finish it.

[BurstIncomeAsset]

It is natural selection, make better/stronger coin and it will eat burst.
Don't force burst to surrender to be eaten alive by threats of 51% attack.

The community has to stay together. If everybody starts to buy BURST now, or start buying more HDD, then we can get enough miners/ mining power to make the 51% attack impossible.

I think that the market has already priced in this threat, and hit the bottom already. So I dont think it will go lower than this.

On Poloniex is already starting to recover to 35 satoshi, so it was just a fear-sell of the traders, and now they are buying it up again.


I think BURST is starting to recover, without the need to do anything, we just need to show the traders/investors that we are a strong community, and they will push the price back to normal levels.

[notabeliever]

Thanks for the Win10 info bored so I'll try it today


All this angry chat reminds me of a new fork..............Burst-XT anyone


LOL

[pinballdude]

I can not see a proof of your argument that BinLaden moved the price down. Can you?
Miners are not investors, they need to pay the bill and will always do that with the mined coins!

Bitladen controls this address,and it is probably collecting block rewards from computers mining sort of like a private pool :

BURST-KQ2P-FWCW-AAYU-D9G24

click it up here:

http://burstcoin.biz/address/12754694899610736661



You can see recent transactions in the link above , incoming is none, but loads of blocks rewarded, and outgoing is all the time to BURST-LLAC-5GCS-EUF5-DLTU3

I am not certain what that address is, but i will assume it is bitladens deposit account at poloniex, cause every time money is sent there, it is sent on to the poloniex hot wallet, look here:

http://burstcoin.biz/address/12748338264256629002

All you see is money coing in from the /bin/laden account and then being sent over to poloniex hot wallet

BURST-R8SQ-TUEM-DTHQ-7ATA3 is the poloniex hot wallet, you can verify by depositing yourself and tracing the money.


Above is proof enough for me that bitladen is mining with a decent amount of hashing power, and is dumping the money onto his poloniex account on an ongoing basis.

Of course he might just store the burst on the exchange and not sell any on the BURST/BTC market, but i doubt it. Nobody is foolish enough to have a large amount of cash on an exchange, these exchanges tend to break down from time to time.


I agree with you that i cannot trace bitladen block rewards further than to an account at poloniex that he controls.

Btw. it is not a problem for me that bitladen mines and dumps - if that is what works best for him, then i will not object in any way, in fact a welcome him as a user of burst, we need all kinds of users to have a thriving market - burst should be designed well enough that this is not a longterm problem. As rewards get lower over time, the upside explosion in price will just be that much larger, when bitladen do not mine enough coins to hold down the price. Best way to make money on bitladen behavior is to try to time the bottom in BURST price and then buy a lot of them at the suppressed price. If i should automate things i would probably try to make the price fall a bit slower, but then accumulate a lot of burst on the way down.


His 51% attack threat i am dealing with, by adding more plots myself. And i will continue until i don't percieve a threat anymore. To be on the safe side i will continue adding some terabytes the next few months so that an attack will become ever more expensive for the attacker. When he turns off his losing operation, diff will go up and i will get rewarded more coins until other miners find a balance somewhere, however, i am happy to put in some money just to decentralize the mining a bit more. In a few years time, when BURST is 1000 i will look back at some really cheaply mined coins and a great profit. The 8TB disks can be sold, or used as door stops or whatnot.

[pinballdude]

Even if BitLaden and Elmit are right, why fixing burstcoin on force?
I am against it.

Why dont you make your own coin and promote it and preosper on it, I will join for sure.

This is soooo suspicious when you force that hard to change something in the name of community.

BitLaden, you have a knowledge and hashpower, do it, and invite us to join you, not forcing others to change.

There is no force included.

Sure it is possible to make another coin. However, if this coin is successful, then BURST is definitely dead.
It's up to you if you want to discuss or do something.

I don't agree. if the other coin is successfull, it will get more users than burst, but the two coins will probably attract different people for different reasons.

You cannot kill burst, it can downscale itself if great competition comes along, but it will probably not die off easily. A lot of people are active and have burst coins. we are still counting the hashes in petabytes.

[pinballdude]

His 51% attack threat i am dealing with, by adding more plots myself. And i will continue until i don't percieve a threat anymore. To be on the safe side i will continue adding some terabytes the next few months so that an attack will become ever more expensive for the attacker. When he turns off his losing operation, diff will go up and i will get rewarded more coins until other miners find a balance somewhere, however, i am happy to put in some money just to decentralize the mining a bit more. In a few years time, when BURST is 1000 i will look back at some really cheaply mined coins and a great profit. The 8TB disks can be sold, or used as door stops or whatnot.

My HW supplier just confirmed the 16TB has been sent. I will probably get them monday. probably online tuesday and be plotted more and more the following days. As I need some of the TB for other purposes i expect only to add 10TB to the network, but still it means bitladen needs to add 10TB too.  And i bought these, it's not cloud, i can have them running forever at very low cost


... and should it come to a who has the longest penis contest, clound miners will bleed much more cash than those who have bought the hardware outright. My only expense is electricity.