[XMR] Monero Speculation

[birr]

@aminorex, your post put me in mind of Debt: The First 5000 Years, by David Graeber.
"Debt-based oppression" goes waay back.

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[ArticMine]

@aminorex, your post put me in mind of Debt: The First 5000 Years, by David Graeber.
"Debt-based oppression" goes waay back.

@aminorex is correct in identifying the oppression of those who are financially vulnerable by the fiat financial system over the last 50 years. The real source of this oppression; however is not fractional reserve banking which has been around for centuries, but rather the replacement of cash with proprietary digital payment systems (Payment Cards, Credit cards, Debit cards, Paypal, bank transfers, etc). They key difference here is that cash can be used to pay anyone regardless of the net worth of the recipient.  Proprietary digital payments systems are most cost effective only when payments are made to the 0.0001% of the most wealthy. They are either impossible to use or very expensive to use when payments are made to the poor.

It is hardly surprising that when making payments to the very wealthy is made convenient and cost effective while at the same time making payments to the poor is made next to impossible and very expensive that the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. This I am afraid is what has happened over the last 50 years.

The Following is a true story:

A baby boomer and a millennial are walking down the street, when they are approached by a beggar.  
The baby boomer avoids eye contact and says: No.
The millennial maintains eye contact and says: I only have debit.  

Edit: The beggar was generation X.

[aminorex]

The real source of this oppression; however is not fractional reserve banking which has been around for centuries, but rather the replacement of cash with proprietary digital payment systems...It is hardly surprising that when making payments to the very wealthy is made convenient and cost effective while at the same time making payments to the poor is made next to impossible and very expensive that the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.

To be clear, I did not infer that fractional reserve was a cause of oppression.  Certainly it plays a role in inequality, as it permits a privileged few to lever rents, but inequality and oppression are distinct.  I consider the adoption of currency backed by sovereign debt as the principal form of economic oppression globally, as it enables the use of the sword of the state to force usury on an entire population, regardless of their choices - and those two points are crucial differences as regards the issue of fractional reserve.  Inequality can become a pragmatic economic problem when it becomes extreme.  It is also a pragmatic economic problem when wealth is too evenly distributed.  Oppression is a moral issue, an identity issue, and an issue of blood.  One reason why the distinction is important: Wise people of good will seek to address pragmatic issues, but extremism is not a responsible option in cases of pragmatic utility.  But in cases of entrenched systematic injustice, extremism may be the only visible option.'

I agree that frictions are imposed on the dis-privileged, and opine that this is an injustice, a moral issue albeit a lesser one, as well as a pragmatic one.  In general economies of scale have created opportunities for those who ameliorate these issues, and that has pragmatic value, increasing productivity, decreasing inefficiency.  Market solutions appear suited to squeeze that injustice to the tiniest of margins over time.  Crypto is part of that solution.  Crypto could potentially be a solution to the much more damaging practical and moral issue of currency backed by sovereign debt, and if it were to be effective, could save much bloodshed.  It is much more difficult to make it so, however.  It remains to be seen that market mechanisms will suffice to achieve or even approximate that end.  One can hope, but one cannot base rational decisions on hope.
  

[aminorex]

In case you didn't notice: bitfinex hacked.

[elrippo]

In case you didn't notice: bitfinex hacked.

Well, who cares 

[americanpegasus]

In case you didn't notice: bitfinex hacked.

Whoa.  In case you didn't notice, there is a new Speculation - Altcoin board and we just got moved to it.

[jehst]

It seems we have all of the early bitcoin shenanigans with not nearly as much of the upside. Beginning to feel very pessimistic.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

In case you didn't notice: bitfinex hacked.

Whoa.  In case you didn't notice, there is a new Speculation - Altcoin board and we just got moved to it.

I noticed. What's the point, considering the vast majority of threads in the alt section are related to speculation?

Smells like censorship.

[DaveyJones]

Atleast Spoetnik can live in peace now 

[aminorex]

Wow, sure glad I moved 90% of my then BTC balance off of Bitfinex last Friday.  Another Mt.Gox situation would have made me a sad camper indeed.  Friends don't let friends use exchanges as wallets.

[nanobrain]

Friends don't let friends use exchanges as wallets.

Sage advice.

[Hueristic]

Equilibrium.

[mmortal03]

Relevant comment from the ANN thread:

Talking about commits, this one caught my eye: https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/ebf97d76f0020eb027175818ebbdafd6d578aa77

wallet: new {ex,im}port_key_images commands and RPC calls

They are used to export a signed set of key images from a wallet
with a private spend key, so an auditor with the matching view key
may see which of those are spent, and which are not.

finally the view-key functionally is optimal.

Excellent. I could've sworn that they said it wasn't possible. Nothing wrong with promising less and accomplishing more, though.

[bitowl]

so does the btc hacker now move into xmr?

[birr]

so does the btc hacker now move into xmr?

Meaning poloniex?

[smoothie]

Wow, sure glad I moved 90% of my then BTC balance off of Bitfinex last Friday.  Another Mt.Gox situation would have made me a sad camper indeed.  Friends don't let friends use exchanges as wallets.

Good thing you are your own friend 

[luigi1111]

Relevant comment from the ANN thread:

Talking about commits, this one caught my eye: https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/ebf97d76f0020eb027175818ebbdafd6d578aa77

wallet: new {ex,im}port_key_images commands and RPC calls

They are used to export a signed set of key images from a wallet
with a private spend key, so an auditor with the matching view key
may see which of those are spent, and which are not.

finally the view-key functionally is optimal.

Excellent. I could've sworn that they said it wasn't possible. Nothing wrong with promising less and accomplishing more, though.

This new functionality is in line with what was previously stated on the subject. Nice that it's functional now!

[Hueristic]

a long time ago BTC going down meant sadness, now its just more XMR  

Good bump from yesterday.

https://moneropric.es/

I considered reacquiring but I still think my floor prediction is still correct. Tough being right all the time and not having the ability to capitalize.

[bitowl]

so does the btc hacker now move into xmr?

Meaning poloniex?

No, meaning the hacker now goes btc -> monero -> btc to launder his coins. This could affect xmr's price.

[aminorex]

Goofy to sell XMR here, IMO.

BTC should turn down again in about an hour.  The drops are far from over.