[XMR] Monero Speculation

[megadeth]

I wish there was a more reputable exchange for XMR to fuel this rally.
Polo has shown their true colors in this DAO fiasco, by delaying withdrawal confirmation emails.

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[luigi1111]

DAO hacked, apparently using recursive calls to split (i.e. withdraw ETH). Interesting times ahead. Crypto never fails to disappoint.

DASH, ETH, and DAO just got the wake-up call Monero received a year ago thanks to the Troll Block Attack.

That was almost two years ago. 

[obit33]

I love the pump but unless monero really takes off (0.04-0.05) it won't survive Ethereum's ring signature mixers soon to be launched.....

Well, I guess Vitalik will have some other things on his mind from now on... I wholeheartedly hope you are fully invested in your ETH-utopia!

best regards,

[Hueristic]

If I didn't know better I would think coins are appearing from nowhere.

8600/day or so?

I'm aware how many are being created a day, I don't see your point with that comment. The consistent down pressure seems far higher long term than the emission and even if it was equal to the emission then I find it hard to believe all new coins are dumped. Every single time there is a breakout there is a dump, I just cannot figure out why anyone would want to intentionally suppress the price like that (especially if they have the coins to do it: it flies in the face of self interest) and I think it's fanciful to believe it's some other coins troll.

I cannot come to terms with somoneone/somegroup acquiring over time just for price suppression and I cannot think Of any logical reason except to slowly siphon from the cap unless they hold massive hoard which by now should have been absorbed. Unless you have a different theory?

BTW, I bolded the qualifier for you.

[TrueCryptonaire]

THIS IS IT! Ladies & Gentlemen, this is what we have been waiting for. I would like to congratulate all the monero holders. You've been mocked, insulted, made fun of. But you've held up, you've been brave. And today is hte moment this will start to pay off.

If you are out of XMR right now, this is at your own peril! There has never been a better moment to buy.

Go green candles GO

Those people who has not better things to do in their lives than mock, insult and made fun of others (regardless of being a bagholder of moreno or not), are childish and stupid.
It is easy to be brave when you are not invested too much into Moreno but enough to become wealthy if it will pay off some day.

[Febo]

If I didn't know better I would think coins are appearing from nowhere.

8600/day or so?

I'm aware how many are being created a day, I don't see your point with that comment. The consistent down pressure seems far higher long term than the emission and even if it was equal to the emission then I find it hard to believe all new coins are dumped. Every single time there is a breakout there is a dump, I just cannot figure out why anyone would want to intentionally suppress the price like that (especially if they have the coins to do it: it flies in the face of self interest) and I think it's fanciful to believe it's some other coins troll.

I cannot come to terms with somoneone/somegroup acquiring over time just for price suppression and I cannot think Of any logical reason except to slowly siphon from the cap unless they hold massive hoard which by now should have been absorbed. Unless you have a different theory?

BTW, I bolded the qualifier for you.

Last month this was not there anymore. That is what looked so different compared to last 6 months.

[smooth]

@Heuristic, my point was that coins are being created out of thin air. Obviously they aren't all dumped and the ones that are aren't the only coins being dumped, but the mining emissions adds a lot to the overall selling pressure.

There needs to be buyers wanting those new coins or it becomes a game of hot potato where a miner might hold on to some coins for a while then dump them on a speculator who is willing to hold them for a while but will also eventually dump them on a longer term investor (perhaps with more speculators in the middle of the chain). So that just means a lot of dumping from time to time unless you are in a high-demand situation where longer-term investors are very hungry to constantly accumulate coins.

[Hueristic]

If I didn't know better I would think coins are appearing from nowhere.

8600/day or so?

I'm aware how many are being created a day, I don't see your point with that comment. The consistent down pressure seems far higher long term than the emission and even if it was equal to the emission then I find it hard to believe all new coins are dumped. Every single time there is a breakout there is a dump, I just cannot figure out why anyone would want to intentionally suppress the price like that (especially if they have the coins to do it: it flies in the face of self interest) and I think it's fanciful to believe it's some other coins troll.

I cannot come to terms with somoneone/somegroup acquiring over time just for price suppression and I cannot think Of any logical reason except to slowly siphon from the cap unless they hold massive hoard which by now should have been absorbed. Unless you have a different theory?

BTW, I bolded the qualifier for you.

Last month this was not there anymore. That is what looked so different compared to last 6 months.

I'm not quit following what you mean by "this was not there anymore"?

DAO hacked, apparently using recursive calls to split (i.e. withdraw ETH). Interesting times ahead. Crypto never fails to disappoint.

Shit why didn't this happen 2 days ago when I could have shorted Eth.

I would have much rather using margin to do that than cash out, but then again if something happens to polo because of this then I am protected as a side effect.

Anywhere safe to short it with usd?

[Kramerc]

If I didn't know better I would think coins are appearing from nowhere.

8600/day or so?

I'm aware how many are being created a day, I don't see your point with that comment. The consistent down pressure seems far higher long term than the emission and even if it was equal to the emission then I find it hard to believe all new coins are dumped. Every single time there is a breakout there is a dump, I just cannot figure out why anyone would want to intentionally suppress the price like that (especially if they have the coins to do it: it flies in the face of self interest) and I think it's fanciful to believe it's some other coins troll.

I cannot come to terms with somoneone/somegroup acquiring over time just for price suppression and I cannot think Of any logical reason except to slowly siphon from the cap unless they hold massive hoard which by now should have been absorbed. Unless you have a different theory?

BTW, I bolded the qualifier for you.

Yup, I was just thinking the very same thing these last few days. Whenever the market goes up even a few percent there's like a flood of sellers willing to market sell it back down. My only possible explanation to this is that whoever is accumulating (and has been since the last low around .0016) wants to dry all the supply at these levels before letting it go up. So basically they're buying all the coins up to their target and then they're selling into their own bids which are lower, forcing others to sell lower into the breakout, into their bids. So even though they're buying it up, they're trying to accumulate at the lowest possible price, as close as possible to the point from which they made the breakout.

What's crazy is that some traders are actually falling for this strategy and giving their coins away cheaply right before another breakout takes place and leaves them behind.

[Hueristic]

If I didn't know better I would think coins are appearing from nowhere.

8600/day or so?

I'm aware how many are being created a day, I don't see your point with that comment. The consistent down pressure seems far higher long term than the emission and even if it was equal to the emission then I find it hard to believe all new coins are dumped. Every single time there is a breakout there is a dump, I just cannot figure out why anyone would want to intentionally suppress the price like that (especially if they have the coins to do it: it flies in the face of self interest) and I think it's fanciful to believe it's some other coins troll.

I cannot come to terms with someone/somegroup acquiring over time just for price suppression and I cannot think Of any logical reason except to slowly siphon from the cap unless they hold massive hoard which by now should have been absorbed. Unless you have a different theory?

BTW, I bolded the qualifier for you.

Yup, I was just thinking the very same thing these last few days. Whenever the market goes up even a few percent there's like a flood of sellers willing to market sell it back down. My only possible explanation to this is that whoever is accumulating (and has been since the last low around .0016) wants to dry all the supply at these levels before letting it go up. So basically they're buying all the coins up to their target and then they're selling into their own bids which are lower, forcing others to sell lower into the breakout, into their bids. So even though they're buying it up, they're trying to accumulate at the lowest possible price, as close as possible to the point from which they made the breakout.

What's crazy is that some traders are actually falling for this strategy and giving their coins away cheaply right before another breakout takes place and leaves them behind.

That was my thought for a very long time until the last dump from .004

[Kramerc]

How come? To me, that proves the point even more. The drop was more swift than the one from a year ago, even though the market showed much more strength. Also there were literally no bounces on this drop from the high...

[illodin]

Maybe there are just so many bagholders wishing to get out with minimal damage so when the opportunity arises they take it.

[primer-]

Where's primer-?   

Bad day for Ethereum. Vitalik did the right thing, miners make the final decision and so far there seems to be a consensus.
I haven't sold a single ether and i hold almost $500k usd worth (@ 0.028). I am more confident than ever that in 2-3 months, with Coinbase's support, we are to see a new ATH..

On another note, Monero pump looking better than ever! I'd love to see .003 soon!

[Monerobuyer0]

Where's primer-?   

Bad day for Ethereum. Vitalik did the right thing, miners make the final decision and so far there seems to be a consensus.
I haven't sold a single ether and i hold almost $500k usd worth (@ 0.028). I am more confident than ever that in 2-3 months, with Coinbase's support, we are to see a new ATH..

On another note, Monero pump looking better than ever! I'd love to see .003 soon!

This post must be a joke.

[novag]

Where's primer-?   

Bad day for Ethereum. Vitalik did the right thing, miners make the final decision and so far there seems to be a consensus.
I haven't sold a single ether and i hold almost $500k usd worth (@ 0.028). I am more confident than ever that in 2-3 months, with Coinbase's support, we are to see a new ATH..

On another note, Monero pump looking better than ever! I'd love to see .003 soon!

This post must be a joke.

It is not a joke, XMR try to +0.0035

[Monerobuyer0]

Where's primer-?   

Bad day for Ethereum. Vitalik did the right thing, miners make the final decision and so far there seems to be a consensus.
I haven't sold a single ether and i hold almost $500k usd worth (@ 0.028). I am more confident than ever that in 2-3 months, with Coinbase's support, we are to see a new ATH..

On another note, Monero pump looking better than ever! I'd love to see .003 soon!

This post must be a joke.

It is not a joke, XMR try to +0.0035

Oh I believe MOnero will rise.  I just mean its a joke because primer is positive about Monero.

[iCEBREAKER]

Where's primer-?   

Bad day for Ethereum. Vitalik did the right thing, miners make the final decision and so far there seems to be a consensus.
I haven't sold a single ether and i hold almost $500k usd worth (@ 0.028). I am more confident than ever that in 2-3 months, with Coinbase's support, we are to see a new ATH..

On another note, Monero pump looking better than ever! I'd love to see .003 soon!

Vitalik did everything wrong.  Last night the potential conflicts-of-interest created by his vast personal holdings of ETH and DAO were actualized.

He should have told DAO to FOAD.  Instead he made a bad situation much worse by throwing exchange operators and users under the bus in a vain attempt to save ETH's highest-profile project.

DAO's incompetent devs and greedy bagholders are solely responsible for the consequences of this fiasco.

But now we have moral hazard spreading to ETH and exchanges as the rot spreads upward.

Is this type of situation going to happen again?

It seems inevitable, given all the dubious low-security shitcoins Polo lists, one or more will be hacked in the future.

When MAID and DASH get hacked, will Polo freeze trading, etc for tangentially related coins like BTC, forcing traders to lock in their losses?

This godawful precedent implies the answer is yes, they will.

[novag]

And please do not forget the support of the coin exchange poloniex Monero.

[bobabouey2]

Vitalik did everything wrong.  Last night the potential conflicts-of-interest created by his vast personal holdings of ETH and DAO were actualized.

He should have told DAO to FOAD.  Instead he made a bad situation much worse by throwing exchange operators and users under the bus in a vain attempt to save ETH's highest-profile project.

DAO's incompetent devs and greedy bagholders are solely responsible for the consequences of this fiasco.

But now we have moral hazard spreading to ETH and exchanges as the rot spreads upward.

Is this type of situation going to happen again?

It seems inevitable, given all the dubious low-security shitcoins Polo lists, one or more will be hacked in the future.

When MAID and DASH get hacked, will Polo freeze trading, etc for tangentially related coins like BTC, forcing traders to lock in their losses?

This godawful precedent implies the answer is yes, they will.

Agreed.  And I still struggle with how the DAO can even claim it is a problem, as the DAO terms expressly say the code supercedes the description / intent.

The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this explanation of terms or in any other document or communication may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond those set forth in The DAO’s code. Any and all explanatory terms or descriptions are merely offered for educational purposes and do not supercede or modify the express terms of The DAO’s code set forth on the blockchain; to the extent you believe there to be any conflict or discrepancy between the descriptions offered here and the functionality of The DAO’s code at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413, The DAO’s code controls and sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation.

https://daohub.org/explainer.html

So I guess future DAO will need to have a disclaimer that there are situations where the code doesn't control, and therefore you have to look to intent... Which basically means opening the same can of worms lawyers and courts have been dealing with for ages, but "smart contracts" were supposed to avoid.

It would be hilarious if the "hacker" sued the DAO for breach of contract if the "stolen" funds are returned!

[iCEBREAKER]

I still struggle with how the DAO can even claim it is a problem, as the DAO terms expressly say the code supercedes the description / intent.

The terms of The DAO Creation are set forth in the smart contract code existing on the Ethereum blockchain at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413. Nothing in this explanation of terms or in any other document or communication may modify or add any additional obligations or guarantees beyond those set forth in The DAO’s code. Any and all explanatory terms or descriptions are merely offered for educational purposes and do not supercede or modify the express terms of The DAO’s code set forth on the blockchain; to the extent you believe there to be any conflict or discrepancy between the descriptions offered here and the functionality of The DAO’s code at 0xbb9bc244d798123fde783fcc1c72d3bb8c189413, The DAO’s code controls and sets forth all terms of The DAO Creation.

https://daohub.org/explainer.html

So I guess future DAO will need to have a disclaimer that there are situations where the code doesn't control, and therefore you have to look to intent... Which basically means opening the same can of worms lawyers and courts have been dealing with for ages, but "smart contracts" were supposed to avoid.

It would be hilarious if the "hacker" sued the DAO for breach of contract if the "stolen" funds are returned!

You've hit logical bedrock following up on my bit of initial conceptual drilling.

Since XMR intends to implement smart contracts, we may learn something from this DAO/ETH/POLO SNAFU

ETH/DAO were marketed to investors using the USP "The Code is the Law; The transaction is the settlement; Moral hazard has no power here."

The last 24 hours have destroyed that conceit.

Now we will roll our eyes when we hear happy talk about permissionless leaderless decentralization.

Here is the point at which that dream died:

[3:41:38 AM] George Hallam [ETH] : ALL EXCHANGES: please pause ether trading as soon as possible
[3:41:56 AM] Jesse: why pause trading?
[3:41:59 AM] Aurélien MENANT: done :p
[3:42:56 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: That's a pretty serious measure, is the stolen ETH moving?
[3:42:57 AM] Alex Hanin: Can you please elaborate on this pause?
[3:42:58 AM] dino: ALL EXCHANGES EMERGENCY PAUSE TRADING RIGHT NOW
[3:43:01 AM] Vitalik Buterin: ok can you guys stop trading
[3:43:05 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Okay
[3:43:10 AM] Bill Shihara: Stopping the trading will stop the hacker from liquidating.  but that may be penalizing legit traders significantly
[3:43:11 AM] Vitalik Buterin: and deposits and withdrawals
[3:43:18 AM] dino: ALL EXCHANGES STOP WITHDRAWALS RIGHT NOW EMERGENCY
[3:43:25 AM] Tristan D'Agosta: Okay, not trading then...

http://pastebin.com/aMKwQcHR

Question for XMR core devs:

Under what (if any) circumstances would you request (or like VB forcefully demand under threat of rollback) a halt to XMR activity on exchanges?

 fluffypony must be enjoying this schadenfreude at VB's expense!