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Author Topic: Cairnsmore1 - Quad XC6SLX150 Board  (Read 251419 times)
wildemagic
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July 25, 2012, 03:26:33 PM
 #1501

Everyone that ordered here got their devices for $640, and they may reach up to 1Ghs with an optimized bitstream. That is better than BFL.
An optimized bitstream is likely to pull more than 10 watts per FPGA, preliminary estimates are between 12 and 15 watts each.

Ok, but I wasnt basing my post on speculation.  Thats an entirely different and subjective discussion.
Its entirely possible to clock chips at 300mhz/mhs and high voltage and end up with 60w 1200mh/s devices.

Given that most sparty150s are clocked at or around 200mhz@10w or less (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison), I dont think I was too presumptuous.

Its taken ztex and Elden ALOT of development to get their bitstreams performing better, its doubtfull ztex will port over to CM1 and Eldens project is still not final either.

kind regards

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July 25, 2012, 03:39:21 PM
 #1502

...
Everyone that ordered here got their devices for $640
...
That is an assumption.

IIRC, *current* price *is* $960.

Which they have raised it to in violation of their promise not to do so until an 800MH/s hash rate was delivered/available.
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July 25, 2012, 03:40:22 PM
 #1503

that's what I had thought, couldn't remember where I saw it though.

second question. probably for Yohan. can I connect 2 600w psu's to the power control board instead of one 1200w?

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July 25, 2012, 03:43:38 PM
 #1504

...
Everyone that ordered here got their devices for $640
...
That is an assumption.

IIRC, *current* price *is* $960.

Which they have raised it to in violation of their promise not to do so until an 800MH/s hash rate was delivered/available.
That was only recently raised, and I shouldn't have said "everyone", however the correct answer is probably closer to "99% of all orders". But anyway, yeah. We don't know how many orders have been placed since after the price was put up, but I can be sure that it wouldn't be *more* than the total of the orders that were placed prior to the hike.

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July 25, 2012, 03:50:00 PM
 #1505

Fair enough, rjk.

However, the current facts are that Enterpoint's price is about 50% higher than a BFL Single for %50 less performance. IOWs, monetary cost is half again more for one half the MH/s.
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July 25, 2012, 03:59:41 PM
 #1506

...
Everyone that ordered here got their devices for $640
...
That is an assumption.

IIRC, *current* price *is* $960.

Which they have raised it to in violation of their promise not to do so until an 800MH/s hash rate was delivered/available.
That was only recently raised, and I shouldn't have said "everyone", however the correct answer is probably closer to "99% of all orders". But anyway, yeah. We don't know how many orders have been placed since after the price was put up, but I can be sure that it wouldn't be *more* than the total of the orders that were placed prior to the hike.

That wasnt really the point, the point was that 'someone' was under the false pretense that the CM1 had a 'significant' price:performance advantage over a BFL single.  This statement is totally incorrect.  Even based on speculation, at $960 for 1200mhs vs $599 for 800mhs there is little advantage except power consumption, which would likely be close at those speeds.

Once again, thats speculation, the reality is <400mhs @ $640 vs >800mhs @ $599 is the current situation, greatly favoring BFL.

kind regards

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July 25, 2012, 04:13:31 PM
 #1507

I sort of agree with you wildemagic but don't forget the $300+ mining you would have lost before bfl actually delivers your Single.

Biggest issue i have with bfl (not counting the import tax etc i would have to pay getting them into the UK anyway) is that i will not pay a company like that up front for a product EVER. I wouldn't pay porsche upfront to get on a delivery list (funny enough they don't ask for it upfront either) and they are a little more reputable than bfl imo. It's just the way i work, i've never been ripped off by anyone because i won't put anyone in a position where they have the oppertunity to run off with my money. Even if they didn't ask for money upfront i still wouldn't buy on priciple the way they handle customers. Mining is a little bit of fun on the side for me, bfl arn't providing me a product that i need, just something that i want so the above factors would rule them out of ever getting my money.

That leaves me with the other reputable vendors which all seem preety good of which enterpoint are my personal prefered choice.

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July 25, 2012, 04:15:37 PM
 #1508

Ok a short update on progress with glasswalker's build that we are playing with. We have this now running on 3 FPGAs with a good stability and good mining results currently at a 175MHz clock rate. The 4th FPGA position still has some problems and we have a few more things that may make it viable in it's current form yet to try. Either running as 3 or 4 FPGAs we will aim to make a controller release available for it later today as it will give you all better hashing rates and U values. We will discuss with glasswalker how current bitstream is released and there may be more than one variant of the bitstream to suit each FPGA's particular needs.

The current issues are related to noise on the com lines which coupled with a weak UART design which either allow a false edge trigger and/or incorrect data to be received. At the penalty of a rebuild this can be fixed with a more robust UART design should the other methods that we are currently playing with fail.
Well, I guess that explains a lot...

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wildemagic
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July 25, 2012, 04:32:43 PM
 #1509

I sort of agree with you wildemagic but don't forget the $300+ mining you would have lost before bfl actually delivers your Single.

Whoa back there partner, Enterpoint make people wait months before delivery, then they are using a 'development' product, so 50 days minimum turn around from BFL easily matches the announced delivery dates of enterpoint, if you discount the fact the the CM1 is not performing as expected yet.

I wouldn't pay porsche upfront to get on a delivery list (funny enough they don't ask for it upfront either) and they are a little more reputable than bfl imo.

Yea, but you can go to a brick and mortar shop and get a porche.  A better comparison would be a Tesla roadster, alot of ppl put up heaps of dosh, then more, then waiting and finally got what they ordered.  Most if not all are over the moon with their purchase even considering the whole process.

That leaves me with the other reputable vendors which all seem preety good of which enterpoint are my personal prefered choice.

They are not yet a reputable vendor.  They have yet to deliver on task.  They sound good to everyone in this thread ill agree, but most are feeling all warm and cushy about having a $640 1000mh/s device, thats why they have a predilection towards enterpoint.  It cant be for any other reason, as none of those users have what was intended yet (other than a pretty looking piece of hardware)

Reputable vendors are Ztex and Ngzhang, thats the list, period.  BFL is reputable as well, but lots will piss and moan about that, my point is all three of those companies do or have delivered plenty of working products to their users that meet or exceed expectations.  BFL was out by alot on power, and hasing speed, factor of x4 and currently 120mh/s short.  But ngzhang delivered, and now ztex are exceeding expectations with their 248mhz bitstream.

If you were really banking on reputation and delivery of performance, then you would be a Ztex customer, period.

kind regards.

.,-._|\     Offgrid 1.7kW Solar and 3G wireless internet powering my mining rig.
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July 25, 2012, 04:33:41 PM
 #1510

Either running as 3 or 4 FPGAs we will aim to make a controller release available for it later today
Any plans to release a controller upgrade HOWTO for Linux users? I've downloaded the 1.2 and 1.3 release and they only come with a Windows executable and Windows howto.
I don't have any Windows license available to me and certainly won't buy one and install Windows on my laptop just to upgrade the controller...

As a bad controller upgrade will make a board useless, I'm not willing to take the risks compiling SPIprog for Linux and poking around  (Edit: at least not without a known-to-work howto).

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July 25, 2012, 05:20:16 PM
 #1511

Yeah, sorry to bring up that guy's older post I didn't really want to get off track, but I believe he was making his comments under the impression he would get a $640 rate, or at least that he was ordering in "bulk". At $960 and with power consumption it is merely "competitive" with BFL. At $640 without complete software it's a "gamble", but one that more than just a handful of us are willing to make. As others have stated, BFL has only improved their delivery time from 3.5 months to 2 months in the last two quarters, they are pretty obviously not ordering parts till there are orders for them.

Quote
Reputable vendors are Ztex and Ngzhang, thats the list, period.

Well, I think there's probably several shades of reputable here, but as far as "delivering product at specified hash rate", you'd be right. BFL stills posts a 4-6 week delivery time but to my knowledge no forum member (aside from maybe Inaba or gigavps) have ever gotten a delivery in 6 weeks time, ever. I can't really comment on yohan's order to delivery speed because it isn't yet bad enough that users have had to post a separate thread for delivery times on them.

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July 25, 2012, 05:33:36 PM
 #1512

Well, I think there's probably several shades of reputable here

I agree, CM1 hardware and Yohan's communication - great.  Reputable (soon) - pending improved performance.

I can't really comment on yohan's order to delivery speed because they it isn't yet bad enough that users have had to post a separate thread for delivery times on them.

From this thread, its a couple of months, but production is ramping up, and so it should with them (based on 400-500 units) having taken over a quarter of a million dollars so far.

Once the developers get a working bitstream this will no longer be a speculation or development product (i hope) and we can make some hard and fast comparisons.

Judging by the rigor of the design and the forsight of enterpoint in using great cooling, I think we have the potential to see one of the best FPGAs on the market in the CM1.

kind regards

.,-._|\     Offgrid 1.7kW Solar and 3G wireless internet powering my mining rig.
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July 25, 2012, 05:34:45 PM
 #1513

Whoa back there partner, Enterpoint made people wait months before delivery,
OK this is ridiculous. You are distorting the truth unnecessarily. In fact, the wait time was far less than any other competitor, period. Furthermore, no payment was accepted until the units were ready to ship.

then they are using a 'development' product,
No shit, sherlock. The same goes for ngzhang, ztex, and everyone else except BFL, who refuse to allow their devices to be used for other purposes.

so 50 days turn around from BFL easily matches the announce 2 delivery date of enterpoint, if you discount the fact the the CM1 is not performing as expected yet.
Actually, the current average wait time for BFL deliveries is 72.343 days, not 50. AND, you have your funds tied up the entire time, doing nothing!
You are also providing conflicting statements and views.
Really, wildemagic, you need to improve your outlook on life in general. You are currently being useless and not contributing anything of value. Go away.

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wildemagic
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July 25, 2012, 05:41:08 PM
 #1514

You are currently being useless and not contributing anything of value. Go away.

Im part of a discussion that started with someone singing the praises and merit of a comparison thats not based in reality.

I do apologize for quoting the minimum delivery time of 50 days for a BFL product when the average is 72.
No-one is right all the time, its only when checked by our peers that we continue to learn and grow.
I consider you and all others I converse with part of that process, thanks!

You are distorting the truth unnecessarily. In fact, the wait time was far less than any other competitor, period. Furthermore, no payment was accepted until the units were ready to ship.

Not at all, its a fair comparison, the people who ordered in may got product in july.  I agree its better to pre-order and only have to pay when its ready to ship, but that does not create a time dilation in any way.

Really, wildemagic, you need to improve your outlook on life in general.

Toughen up princess ...

kind regards

.,-._|\     Offgrid 1.7kW Solar and 3G wireless internet powering my mining rig.
/ .Oz. \
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July 25, 2012, 05:41:32 PM
 #1515

Whoa back there partner, Enterpoint made people wait months before delivery,
OK this is ridiculous. You are distorting the truth unnecessarily. In fact, the wait time was far less than any other competitor, period. Furthermore, no payment was accepted until the units were ready to ship.

then they are using a 'development' product,
No shit, sherlock. The same goes for ngzhang, ztex, and everyone else except BFL, who refuse to allow their devices to be used for other purposes.

so 50 days turn around from BFL easily matches the announce 2 delivery date of enterpoint, if you discount the fact the the CM1 is not performing as expected yet.
Actually, the current average wait time for BFL deliveries is 72.343 days, not 50. AND, you have your funds tied up the entire time, doing nothing!
You are also providing conflicting statements and views.
Really, wildemagic, you need to improve your outlook on life in general. You are currently being useless and not contributing anything of value. Go away.


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yohan
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July 25, 2012, 09:07:31 PM
 #1516

Cairnsmore controller for Glasswalker2 build is noe available on http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/cairnsmore/cairnsmore1_support_materials.html. This is only for the Glasswalker build and won't work with any other bitstream. Currently only properly supporting 3 FPGAs with 4th running very poorly. Expect a U of about 7.5 from what we have seen and power usage less than 30W.



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July 25, 2012, 09:15:06 PM
 #1517

Cairnsmore controller for Glasswalker2 build is noe available on http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/cairnsmore/cairnsmore1_support_materials.html. This is only for the Glasswalker build and won't work with any other bitstream. Currently only properly supporting 3 FPGAs with 4th running very poorly. Expect a U of about 7.5 from what we have seen and power usage less than 30W.





Where do we get the bitstream itself? or are you posting it later? I see the controller, but no bitstream in the zip.

Thanks,

Doff
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July 25, 2012, 09:48:21 PM
 #1518

Cairnsmore controller for Glasswalker2 build is noe available on http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/cairnsmore/cairnsmore1_support_materials.html. This is only for the Glasswalker build and won't work with any other bitstream. Currently only properly supporting 3 FPGAs with 4th running very poorly. Expect a U of about 7.5 from what we have seen and power usage less than 30W.

Waiting for the bitstream itself, it makes no sence without it...
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July 25, 2012, 10:29:36 PM
 #1519

Cairnsmore controller for Glasswalker2 build is noe available on http://www.enterpoint.co.uk/cairnsmore/cairnsmore1_support_materials.html. This is only for the Glasswalker build and won't work with any other bitstream. Currently only properly supporting 3 FPGAs with 4th running very poorly. Expect a U of about 7.5 from what we have seen and power usage less than 30W.
Yohan, do you plan to support updating the controller from Linux? If not, I'd like to know ASAP: I believe the CM1 will not be profitable without a controller update so I might as well sell my boards now if I can't update them myself.

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July 26, 2012, 12:33:24 AM
 #1520

Do not flash the glasswalker controller version befor you have flashed the new bitstream (still not available)

You will lost the Jtag chain and you can't flash with the VM anymore!

You can't flash back the controller version to rev. 1.3!

God thanks i have a jtag cable, with that i was able to flash back rev. 1.3

eb
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