BitBay OFFICIAL BITBAY Thread Smart Contracts Decentralized Markets Rolling Peg

[dzimbeck]

so it sounds like there is going to be a % of coins that will be locked and unspendable in the wallet unless voting changes this %? I assume these will be staked to get the interest. Will the % be the same for everyone regardless of the wallet size? there must then be a time element for further reduction in the size of the wallet. I think Voting will be to slow to meet market demands and will most likely overshoot or undershoot the optimum supply. I think the price will be better found in the market trading 24/7

Yes this is correct. A more technical elaboration is possible. Inputs are required to be tagged as either "reserve" or "liquid" miners will always calculate wether or not a % of a reserve input is spendable or how much of a liquid input must be tagged as reserve when spent. The concept is simple but making the accounting perfect is a little tricky.

If everyone sends to the voting address in request to deflate for example and we start at 100%, then we move to 99%. When an input needs to be spent, lets say its 100 coins then only 99 coins can be used liquid and 1 coin must lock. That coin is only available if the currency inflates back to 100.

We will allow for voting after certain intervals of blocks. So perhaps 1-2X per day. Thus in a month at most it can deflate 60%. After 99% we have to figure out what increment makes the most sense. Most like .01% so it would drop 99.99, 99.98 and so on. This effects all wallets.

Now consider this is nothing at all like a bank or federal reserve because the rates effect all users evenly. No custodial wallets and no unfair advantages. The beautiful part here is if you have deflated and you hold 100 coins where you used to hold 100,000, then you must have 99,900 in reserve. Your 100 coins will increase in exchange value of course so your purse might be worth more here. If anything it acts as a decentralized economy for the sake of eliminating volatility.

However some good arguments were made for allowing reserve sales. So I'm (considering) adding "time locked sale of reserves" which is a way to bypass the freeze in the condition that you lock the coins for X months. So if you buy reserves you must wait (lets say the minimum is 3) months. Upon receipt those coins are still reserve but (might) be liquid one day if some arent already and your hope is at the same value.

Those bond type sales might create a secondary market and allow investors to enter into the market without making the argument that the distribution was unfair for early adopters. Those reserves would probably get sold at a discount and its a balancing act to decide what the minimum lock should be.

Other techniques are still being discussed and nothing is set in stone yet. I know how I'm writing it in the source code but am still meditating on what a good debut will be. Right now, I'm working on templates to commercialize the markets better and make them more user friendly. So far it looks like there are no bugs and the testing has been very smooth. The only thing we are missing is a build that works on all Macs as we notice about 75% of them running. Perhaps we need to include some libraries or something its on my list of things to do.

[dzimbeck]

1 billion coins is enough because you have eight zeros to the right of the decimal. The only issue is if widely accepted and used, you may have to lower the transaction fee  LOL

lol interesting point... well now that my client will replace the standard Qt, doing updates/"forks" will be easier. That would be an update that could be easily done. However consider that Bitcoin is not in decimals. Computers dont understand floating points and decimals because its binary. Bitcoin is in integers one Bitcoin is 100000000. They say satoshis and then make decimals to make it prettier. In order to denominate more you need to inflate the currency to 1 trillion. But hell, thats not a big deal if we have reserve coins locked. Perhaps if that was ever needed one day it could be done easier without harming early arrivers.

[Bankrunner]

you'll never get a decent % of people voting on reserve changes if its happening 1 or 2 times a day. essentially a vote FOR is a purchase OF on the market. You don't want to inflate your currency because there is no way to do that without hurting early arrivers. thats why the divisibility , the ability to move right of the decimal in noncoding terms, rewards the savers, something that is drastically lacking into days society and the driving appeal of all cryptos. the reserve and liquid tagging will imo act as a form of capitol controls which will cause distortions in a secondary market and could create more volatility when reserve coins are released by vote because of frontrun dumping of a vote favored to lower the reserve %. I appreciate this back and forth

[toknormal]

ok folks.

4 hour correction complete on Bittrex which has lasted a few days.

Last 1-hour chart didn't dip below 105. My buy orders are in.

[Bankrunner]

I like the idea of transaction fees being a % ??0.18-.25?? rather than a set rate with a maximum fee of a set rate like 1.0

[Inotanewbie]

ok folks.

4 hour correction complete on Bittrex which has lasted a few days.

Last 1-hour chart didn't dip below 105. My buy orders are in.

Hello mr graph & graphics i have seen you around and you know about your trading it is usually more pretty than this but hey free advice does not need the graphics to be awesome 

I know my user-name says i am not a newbie but when it comes to trades i am still kind of a newbie but wanting to learn, so could you tell me what graphs you are looking at and what is a good price to get in with a larger position?.#

I brought in November and then recently before the rise at 40-60 and averaged down  a lot basically even at 150, so could keep buying and drop it down slightly more.

Bottom 105 'ish'? 

[dzimbeck]

you'll never get a decent % of people voting on reserve changes if its happening 1 or 2 times a day. essentially a vote FOR is a purchase OF on the market. You don't want to inflate your currency because there is no way to do that without hurting early arrivers. thats why the divisibility , the ability to move right of the decimal in noncoding terms, rewards the savers, something that is drastically lacking into days society and the driving appeal of all cryptos. the reserve and liquid tagging will imo act as a form of capitol controls which will cause distortions in a secondary market and could create more volatility when reserve coins are released by vote because of frontrun dumping of a vote favored to lower the reserve %. I appreciate this back and forth

I understand your point. However floating point numbers aren't used in coins. Essentually "multiplying everyones balance by 10" is the same as adding a decimal place. Its simply from a math perspective, computers don't handle floating points correct and it will cause errors.
http://floating-point-gui.de/

The link above explains it simply. Of course ok, so it can be done without impacting the market... there is always a way. Even to make it "appear" to move to the right, you still must deal in integers not floats.

I see your concern, you are basically saying (what if voters are selfish) and thus they can increase supply by unfreezing? Well yes so the question of the frequency of voting comes in. Perhaps it can halve just like the block reward, perhaps we can allow the master key to message the client if variables like voting frequency need to be changed.

I think its more of a balancing act. What is the sweet spot where things will square off and the price can achieve a harmony. The idea that people can sell reserves in time locked sales may help act as a deterrent for selfish votes. Also with checklocktimeverify it should be possible to park your coins. This would mean that even on an interest increase those coins would stay parked until the locktime runs out. That would be a voluntary action. Coins that get sold from selfish votes might move into the hands of people who would vote deflation anyways.

The point is, the first iteration of this must exist. It certainly would decrease volatility though since no matter how you structure your argument, a dumpers coins will not be all available at once. Perhaps you could argue that overdeflating could cause this risk if the coin is inflated too early.

The theory is to have supply matching demand and there is some variables to consider.

Think of it this way, Bitcoin is supposed to be hailed as programmable money but they aren't taking advantage of their wonderful opportunity to programatically control their economy. No matter what, this is the next logical step for Bitcoin.

[Bankrunner]

I've never coded so I see how the multiply 10 having the same effect as moving the decimal.

the next evolution in BTC is the decentralized market, faster transactions, and smart contracts. Bay will achieve all of these when complete. All the economic engineering of the coin can be left out, I think this is the problem with our current system and I believe people will gravitate to the decentralized market that has the freest flow of the coin that rides on it. I think all this attempt to engineer will be a turn off, especially if its complicated and always changing.

[Bankrunner]

or I could be completely wrong  but I wanted to throw these ideas out there

[dzimbeck]

I've never coded so I see how the multiply 10 having the same effect as moving the decimal.

the next evolution in BTC is the decentralized market, faster transactions, and smart contracts. Bay will achieve all of these when complete. All the economic engineering of the coin can be left out, I think this is the problem with our current system and I believe people will gravitate to the decentralized market that has the freest flow of the coin that rides on it. I think all this attempt to engineer will be a turn off, especially if its complicated and always changing.

This is only to mitigate volatility. It certainly is not always changing though. The core concept is pretty much set. I see your point there but in a bear market a coin can lose 90% of its value and nobody can buy/sell on a market while thats happening. So this engine I'm designing will prevent loss of value in your coins so the markets can be happy.

After all, right now we have working smart contracts and decentralized markets with no fees and no arbiters. You would think its perfect. After all even BitHalo had smart contracts for an entire year. People are waiting for templates so its user friendly I think. Although we did have at least 20 deals on the markets go through.

Remember this system is decentralized. There is no reason votes can't be automated or augmented based on node performance instead of stakeholders.

[toknormal]

I know my user-name says i am not a newbie but when it comes to trades i am still kind of a newbie but wanting to learn, so could you tell me what graphs you are looking at and what is a good price to get in with a larger position?....
Bottom 105 'ish'?  

Hi Inotanewbie

Here you go....

https://cryptrader.com/charts/bittrex/bay/btc

To change the exchange (e.g. for BTER, just replace "bittrex" with "bter" in the URL).

If you switch to the 4-hour chart which is a reasonably medium range view (2-3 weeks) you can see it double-peaked around 170-180. Then it corrected down to 105 and is currently sitting around 115. The rise was off 70-80 so the correction has traced back a good 70% at least which is a fair consolidation.

The momentum (see MACD, bottom graph) also indicates that the two corrections have completed (at least as far as the 4-hour chart is concerned).

Given all this, + reasonable order book demand + reasonable fundamentals (most things are still ahead of us than behind), I'd say there's reason for calling this the bottom for now.

But anything can happen. A big holder could get impatient and just dump everything back down to 70. I can't see it going below that for now though.

As I say - don't bet the house on it but I'm in the market for a few at this price.





One thing that does look very promising is the fact that the On Balance Volume has been trending up the whole time through the corrections and if anything seems to be moving slightly against the latter downward price movement.

I'll restrain myself from drawing too extreme a conclusion from that in a public post, but lets just say I wouldn't be selling at this price  



h.t.h. !

P.S. Just checked - I've had a buy order in at 115 for the last 3 hours and not a nibble. I didn't get 1 bay. They'r all going for 120 and above.

[bitrev]

Bitbay and blackcoin, the two coins are Dzimbeck participate in the development of the coin, the coin is very good, but the two coins are lack of marketing. Will not be Dzimbeck or the team lack of contacts?
Do not attach importance to marketing, like people will be disappointed and give up.

We absolutely do not lack contacts in marketing, we are simply working on things and are really not ready for a big marketing push yet. The client is in beta, it needs work on templates and UI, and is still being tested to make sure everything is working in all situations for everyone.

Hence, it is not the time for a big marketing push, it is time to spread rumours about the great things being worked on. Once client is out of beta, and everything is 100% ready, then we will bring out the big guns and get this promoted everywhere.

Be aware that larger media outlets are not interested in reporting on unfinished work that people cannot properly use yet.

And remember, true marketing is creating a product that the market wants, not pushing just anything down its throat!

I dont agree with this entirely, the markets have been teseted extensively and there is definitely a lack of marketing in both Blackcoin and Bitbay. Although I do agree that the marketing push is going to be much stronger once the templates and other things are finished. Forget rumors, there is no marketing. Also, considering that we are the only coin with decentralized markets, it doesnt make sense to give other coins time to catch up. At a minimum everyone should know about it even though there is more to do. Also, assume that we are waiting for a marketing push. Ok so who is designing the materials for that? What about advertisements, banners, diagrams, writeups etc? So many materials to prepare why not do it in advance?

I agree. Momentum is there since it is the first, unique and by a professional dev. team.

Setting a P&R Team don't mean we will should it out loud right away. But it will help to organize strong marketing guys (the wannabe's will leave). Such a process takes weeks.. Meaning if we can start shouting it out loud, we are not ready..

Setting up small campagnes are ideal to learn who and whom are truly an assets for the team!

[3r197]

Thanks for all the input today, dzimbeck, bankrunner, and others! This certainly helps me clear things up on my own end as well. Makes me want to buy more!
Glad to see you part of the community bankrunner! Hope you stick around    

[Bankrunner]

I just topped off a mil this morning and I'm holding till i can actually purchase things I want in the markets. I like this project and SDC, also bought a little BLK. I've been studying currency structures since 08 and with the introduction of BTC I see a turn key alternative to the dollar when it crashes. We don't need to fight the FED or government, just ignoring them and using something they can't control is the way out of this debt based slave system. Decentralized free markets will be key.

 I would like to find a coin that allows me to say for example, I have 10 ounces of silver which I want to use to launch a new silver backed crypto coin called S-coin. I can create 311 S-coins, 1 coin per gram peg. I then spend those into my local economy with the stipulation that anyone can come to me with an accumulated amount of S-coin, say 31.1 minimum and they can redeem that crypto for my physical metal. Those 31.1 coins would then be destroyed by the issuer. New coins can always be created and destroyed as the size of the stack changes with physical deposits and redemption's. It would have to be based on trust with maybe a reputation system of the issuer but it could include a way of verifying by way of third party audits or it could even be as simple as posting a youtube video of the stack every week. This would allow that 1 gram of metal to be divided into 100 million pieces, something not possible in the physical world and it would have all the benefits of instant electronic transfer and blockchain accounting of how much of the coin has been created and make sure it matches the latest youtube stack update. These commodity backed coins could be created by companies that actually produce the product they are selling whether it be oil, gold, or beef. And its got to be as easy as creating a craigslist ad or ebay posting. Let me know if you know of one or is this the colored coin idea, could this be incorporated into bitbay somehow??? I thought counterparty was going down this road but I don't know if anything is ready or not

 

[urdubit]

I picked up over 47k yesterday.

[dzimbeck]

I just topped off a mil this morning and I'm holding till i can actually purchase things I want in the markets. I like this project and SDC, also bought a little BLK. I've been studying currency structures since 08 and with the introduction of BTC I see a turn key alternative to the dollar when it crashes. We don't need to fight the FED or government, just ignoring them and using something they can't control is the way out of this debt based slave system. Decentralized free markets will be key.

 I would like to find a coin that allows me to say for example, I have 10 ounces of silver which I want to use to launch a new silver backed crypto coin called S-coin. I can create 311 S-coins, 1 coin per gram peg. I then spend those into my local economy with the stipulation that anyone can come to me with an accumulated amount of S-coin, say 31.1 minimum and they can redeem that crypto for my physical metal. Those 31.1 coins would then be destroyed by the issuer. New coins can always be created and destroyed as the size of the stack changes with physical deposits and redemption's. It would have to be based on trust with maybe a reputation system of the issuer but it could include a way of verifying by way of third party audits or it could even be as simple as posting a youtube video of the stack every week. This would allow that 1 gram of metal to be divided into 100 million pieces, something not possible in the physical world and it would have all the benefits of instant electronic transfer and blockchain accounting of how much of the coin has been created and make sure it matches the latest youtube stack update. These commodity backed coins could be created by companies that actually produce the product they are selling whether it be oil, gold, or beef. And its got to be as easy as creating a craigslist ad or ebay posting. Let me know if you know of one or is this the colored coin idea, could this be incorporated into bitbay somehow??? I thought counterparty was going down this road but I don't know if anything is ready or not

 

I dont like basing currencies on trust. If you use a deflation/inflation system like what we are proposing here, it wouldn't be so hard to issue one currency backed by another. Consider that a person could issue "Johncoin" where the guy might issue 1000 coins backed by 1000 dollars. True, it wouldn't have a high marketcap but the concept is to issue coins based on market pegs, contracts or deposits. You should avoid audits at all costs. Youtube videos or "he said/she said" is the thing of the past. We should move to an economy not based on trust since absolute power corrupts.

I could see this working in a bitbay fork or perhaps issued through smart contracts or bonds.

[BitBaydev]

So we've just released a linux version of our QT client. With this we have pc,mac and linux covered with simple staking/sending wallets. Of course the exciting and important thing is our markets client, but this means that until staking is added to that we have options available.

This is tested under Ubuntu, anyone with a very obscure linux setup might want to build their own, which can be done from the source and we will be posting instructions for.

You can grab it here: http://bit.ly/bitbayQTlinux

[3r197]

So we've just released a linux version of our QT client. With this we have pc,mac and linux covered with simple staking/sending wallets. Of course the exciting and important thing is our markets client, but this means that until staking is added to that we have options available.

This is tested under Ubuntu, anyone with a very obscure linux setup might want to build their own, which can be done from the source and we will be posting instructions for.

You can grab it here: http://bit.ly/bitbayQTlinux

Awesome news! Twitter is already on top of it! Congrats! Hope this helps pull out some coins off the exchanges so that we can see a better indication of investors on the blockchain explorer    Good work Dev team!

[Inotanewbie]

I know my user-name says i am not a newbie but when it comes to trades i am still kind of a newbie but wanting to learn, so could you tell me what graphs you are looking at and what is a good price to get in with a larger position?....
Bottom 105 'ish'?  

Hi Inotanewbie

Here you go....

https://cryptrader.com/charts/bittrex/bay/btc

To change the exchange (e.g. for BTER, just replace "bittrex" with "bter" in the URL).

If you switch to the 4-hour chart which is a reasonably medium range view (2-3 weeks) you can see it double-peaked around 170-180. Then it corrected down to 105 and is currently sitting around 115. The rise was off 70-80 so the correction has traced back a good 70% at least which is a fair consolidation.

The momentum (see MACD, bottom graph) also indicates that the two corrections have completed (at least as far as the 4-hour chart is concerned).

Given all this, + reasonable order book demand + reasonable fundamentals (most things are still ahead of us than behind), I'd say there's reason for calling this the bottom for now.

But anything can happen. A big holder could get impatient and just dump everything back down to 70. I can't see it going below that for now though.

Bob must still be holding his few million

As I say - don't bet the house on it but I'm in the market for a few at this price.





One thing that does look very promising is the fact that the On Balance Volume has been trending up the whole time through the corrections and if anything seems to be moving slightly against the latter downward price movement.

I'll restrain myself from drawing too extreme a conclusion from that in a public post, but lets just say I wouldn't be selling at this price  



h.t.h. !

P.S. Just checked - I've had a buy order in at 115 for the last 3 hours and not a nibble. I didn't get 1 bay. They'r all going for 120 and above.

Thank you for the site to check the graphs out!  as usual you deliver an awesome presentation for the guys who are not quite to your level.. I to had the buy orders at 114 they got filled and now i am going to keep replacing the buy orders as they get filled. As it stands this project is the one i have most faith in at the moment.

We have dipped now but hopefully we find the bottom and i can accumulate more than enough, i had a couple of spare Bitcoin that was doing nothing to exciting so now they are at least getting involved.

Again many thanks for all your advice! I will be watching out for you in future again aha

[mafort1469]

Damn Loving this coin more and more with every hour!