Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"

[Micon]

Micon's list of obvious ponzi schemes you should never send BTC to and get back all you can if you already did:

1/14/2013 Update

MICON'S #1 CURRENT BTC SCAM:  
Butterfly Labs 
Dedicated thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=136392.0


-------------------------  First Wave of BTC Ponzi's, All went boom by Q4 2012 -----------------------

1)  Bitcoin Savings and Trust is the largest BTC Ponzi. Likely $1M+ USD scam -- https://btcst.com/login   - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.1480  - (how is this locked!?)  BS&T is very soon going to be the largest BTC theft ever (posted 7/27/2012)  BS&T is run by pirateat40  --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=35827 and he is openly mocking his "investors" with this username and the name of his scam.  At least this will add much lulz to the greatest BTC theft story when it's written.

2)  MyBitcoinTrade  - Classic Russian Scammer background - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81357.0  & their lol-tastic FAQ  https://mybitcointrade.com/en/?content=/intern/faqs  - this has been elevated to #2 on my list (7/27/2012) as it is independant of Pirateat40's BS&T ponzi

3)  vescudero's Ponzi Scam - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89122.0  active in this thread, let's see how he claims to pay 2% interest and still wants investors for this great money making thing he does.  Has set up many fake accounts, twitter, linkedin, facebook, "personal" website with non-personal content.

4)  NCKRAZZE's Ponzi Scam  - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81927.40  - standard vague business unit plans, just deposits and payouts until he decides to leave (

5)  BitcoinMax (simple derivative of BS&T) - operator states in FAQ that if BS&T defaults then his version dies too.  Shameful to run, but honest) https://bitcoinmax.com/

6)  Leandro César's Ponzi Scam - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46750.0 (active in thread)

7)  Dank Bank ponzi scam  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93003

 ciuciu's ponzi scam https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87780.0

9) OgNasty's ponzi scam https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75843.0 (has claimed he will start giving deposits back and focus on his mining company, let's see)

10)  RustyRyan's ponzi scam  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=96163.0

11)   imsaguy's ponzi scam  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0 (guy isn't even trying in his OP - at least tell your marks that you are trading great or something)

12)  Joker's scam  http://jokerdragonbtcif.blogspot.ca/

GLBSE investment products linked to Ponzi scams you should not invest in:

1)  BurtW's BCST ponzi derivative bonds https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=76594.0 https://glbse.com/asset/view/PPT.A https://glbse.com/asset/view/PPT.B https://glbse.com/asset/view/PPT.C https://glbse.com/asset/view/PPT.D https://glbse.com/asset/view/PPT.E

2)  Bitdaytrade (3% per week) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93445.0  https://glbse.com/asset/view/BDT

3)  FOO.PPPPT -- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83013 - https://glbse.com/asset/view/FOO.PPPPT - another shameful pirate passthrough, just dumping even more money to the biggest BTC scammer to date.

4)  CIUCIU.BOND https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95826.0  another shameful scam offering from ciuciu




a good list of ponzi's, pass-throughs, and other scams I may have missed:
  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0
  

Bitcointalk.org is doing the bitcoin community a huge disservice to list these Ponzi's under " Economy > Marketplace > Lending" - this gives them amazing credibility to new, young BTC users.  They should be listed under " Economy > Marketplace > Ponzi Schemes" so new users are aware of the scam and can take part if they wish.  Yes, it's odd that ppl take part in something they know it's a scam, but the BTC currency doesn't determine right or wrong, scammers are gonna scam, and there are people that want to be scammed, so might as well categorize as such.  And please reserve the marketplace > gambling for legitimate gambling products like SealsWithClubs and SatoshiDice - not for outright scams.  

I am a 33 year old poker player & entrepreneur.  I have been scammed and know how to spot scams.  I run a poker forum and podcast called DonkDown and I out scams against the poker world as much as I can.  I know most BTC users are still very young.  Nothing can pay 6.9% per WEEK (lols at the balls needed to print this).  Let alone something that does nothing.  It's called a Ponzi Scheme, it's been around for years, only the site owner and a very small % of early "investors" make a profit.

please take the time to read about the scam and realize it's totally the same scam, just using BTC:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Think about it logically:

-- here are some traditional "high interest" savings account rates.  They are around 1% per year.  http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/03/21/which-online-high-yield-savings-account-is-best/
-- these schemes take in "investment"
-- they have no underlying business machine that makes money
-- they pay out an outrageous rate of interest - 7% per week - a full 3000% per year!  it's a totally impossible scenario unless they Walter Whiting up some glass quality and selling it
-- some may claim to be "trading" or "investing" in other things, but they are doing nothing other than seeking new investment to keep paying the insane interest
-- They use new investment to keep paying the interest until new investment < interest owed that week, or month, or at a point where they believe it to now be -EV to keep paying the interest.
-- most will lose, except the site operators and a small % of early "investors" - massive pain will be felt through the BTC community
-- this will likely be the largest BTC scam or theft ever, surpassing both Bitcoinica hacks and the Gox craziness of last year and that 1 other I'm forgetting about

This is a huge negative on the community financially and for bitcoin itself.  This also makes a mockery of the Marketplace > Lending forum category.  Real, actual, BTC lending at traditional time-value of money rates should be legitimate BTC business.  Most of what I see here is nothing but disgusting scammery that is all falling apart extremely soon and will become the next "giant BTC theft" story.


*** Note:  Considering categorizing lending scams into Ponzi, Ponzi derivative, multi-investment fund with exposure to Ponzi (and occasionally mining, which has a legit business unit that could profit) and we will for sure need an "Other" category in the future.

[OgNasty]

I have been scammed and know how to spot scams.

Hindsight is 20/20.

[CoinCidental]

But everyone likes  3400% ,it has such a lovely ring to it 

[Vladimir]

We are all going to be rich! Stop trying to stop us! How dare you! Do you really expect us to stop deluding ourselves and start doing something productive?  

BTW you can add all the so called pirate pass through bonds to your list. The are just his co-conspirators who would be equally liable for fraud IMO once/if "savings and trust", lol, is revealed as a ponzi (so would be every singe ponzi promoter on this forum).

[CoinCidental]

We are all going to be rich! Stop trying to stop us! How dare you! Do you really expect us to stop deluding ourselves and start doing something productive?  

BTW you can add all the so called pirate pass through bonds to your list. The are just his co-conspirators who would be equally liable for fraud IMO once/if "savings and trust", lol, is revealed as a ponzi (so would be every singe ponzi promoter on this forum).

A ponzi is not a ponzi until it defaults ......or is it ?

[Vladimir]

We have no conclusive proof of it being a ponzi just yet. It well could be, for example, some guy in possession of some alien tech who feels strangely charitable towards "naive and greedy" part of this forums population.

Also since I am a real person and not some cooked up anonymous identity, I have to be careful and not set myself up for a libel lawsuit.

[ianspain]

good thread 

is it a ponzi or a lending bubble?

[Mousepotato]

Interesting. Any opinions on the other investment schemes offering nearly as outrageous returns, such as those offered by Vescudero, ciuciu, and smart1985?

[drrussellshane]

So what if some people here are trying to start a bitcoin social security system.

[Shadow383]

We are all going to be rich! Stop trying to stop us! How dare you! Do you really expect us to stop deluding ourselves and start doing something productive?  

BTW you can add all the so called pirate pass through bonds to your list. The are just his co-conspirators who would be equally liable for fraud IMO once/if "savings and trust", lol, is revealed as a ponzi (so would be every singe ponzi promoter on this forum).

I'd actually be curious to know if there is any legal risk to the dozens of "pass through" operators.
Certainly, between them they must control what? $300k in coins? More?

Also I'm not quite up to date - what's the situation with the Vegas show Pirate's supposed to be appearing at?

[PatrickHarnett]

I am a 33 year old poker player. 

I have been scammed and know how to spot scams. 

I know most of you BTC kiddies are still very young.  

I should take advice from a gambler?  I think not.

You admit to have been taken in by scams, so obviously don't know how to spot them.

At 33, you are still very young.  I'm not a "kiddie" and your presumption to insult the people on this board is rather foolish.

[eroxors]

Pretty sure Micon is a puppet for that guy who has the huge bet on Pirate defaulting.

[Tomatocage]

Funny how he only lists BTCST as a ponzi when pretty much every other BTC security returns Ponzi-like divs.  Every single one of them. Come on now, .5%-2.5% a WEEK?  Are you f**king kidding me?  Where's the outcry about those?

[ineededausername]

Funny how he only lists BTCST as a ponzi when pretty much every other BTC security returns Ponzi-like divs.  Every single one of them. Come on now, .5%-2.5% a WEEK?  Are you f**king kidding me?  Where's the outcry about those?

+1, Bitcoin is a high-yield world with many legitimate investments.

[Frankie]

I am a 33 year old poker player. 

I have been scammed and know how to spot scams. 

I know most of you BTC kiddies are still very young.  

I should take advice from a gambler?  I think not.

You admit to have been taken in by scams, so obviously don't know how to spot them.

At 33, you are still very young.  I'm not a "kiddie" and your presumption to insult the people on this board is rather foolish.

So you say:

Poker = gambling.
Experience =! wisdom.
33 years old = young (on a forums populated by people who take ridiculous loan terms because they can't get a credit card, and where a starfish gives "AAA" credit ratings on the basis of his learned questioning).

'k.

Funny how he only lists BTCST as a ponzi when pretty much every other BTC security returns Ponzi-like divs.  Every single one of them. Come on now, .5%-2.5% a WEEK?  Are you f**king kidding me?  Where's the outcry about those?

+1, Bitcoin is a high-yield world with many legitimate investments.

+1 for Tomatocage, then -1 for ineededausername.  Seems clear that the vast majority are also Ponzis or damn kids who can't get a credit card.

[grue]

yay, another Bitcoin Savings and Trust hating thread thread! can you all just congregate yourselves to one thread so i don't have to deal with this bullshit?

ps. your title is misleading as 1 entry isn't really a "list". it's obvious you made this thread to attack Bitcoin Savings and Trust.

[BadBitcoin (James Sutton)]

www.hyipbit.com is another, was taken offline a week or two after it came out however.

[PatrickHarnett]

So you say:

Poker = gambling.
Experience =! wisdom.
33 years old = young (on a forums populated by people who take ridiculous loan terms because they can't get a credit card, and where a starfish gives "AAA" credit ratings on the basis of his learned questioning).

'k.

I observe poker is a game of chance and there is some skill that can be applied.  But I would prefer not to take investment advice from a card player - I consider that a deficient qualification.

I will concur that experience does not necessarily lead to wisdom.  It depends on the person.  Some people are wise with limited experience.

I happen to be older than 33 (this person) and I object to his characterisation of forum members as "kiddies", elevating himself above others he has no knowledge of.

The credit rating metrics you refer to are a mechanical process as set out in the relevant thread and are based on principles covers by Standard and Poors in their publications on Corporate Credit Ratings.  It looks at the financial ability of different issuers to make good their liabilities.  I do not need to do that, and someone else could easily have done so.  I am not asking anyone to rely on them, and of the 12 requests for information, only 1/3rd have responded.  However, you point here is more about discrediting my point of view rather than looking at the credentials of the OP and the advice he is giving.  If you wish to debate credit ratings, please do so in the relevant thread.

[Micon]

We are all going to be rich! Stop trying to stop us! How dare you! Do you really expect us to stop deluding ourselves and start doing something productive?  

BTW you can add all the so called pirate pass through bonds to your list. The are just his co-conspirators who would be equally liable for fraud IMO once/if "savings and trust", lol, is revealed as a ponzi (so would be every singe ponzi promoter on this forum).

A ponzi is not a ponzi until it defaults ......or is it ?

no it is a ponzi when it starts, as it runs, and when it defaults

[Micon]

It's called a Ponzi Scheme ... you will all lose. 

this reads like a contradiction to me.

there are many winners in ponzi schemes, that's why btcbubble was so popular, that's why bitcoin pyramid is so popular, and bitcoinduit, etc.

so you are saying we should keep running ponzi schemes for btc?