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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 107894 times)
Bitcoin Oz
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August 15, 2012, 12:40:16 PM
 #821

Pirate has 51% attacked the market  Smiley

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August 15, 2012, 12:40:49 PM
 #822


The second option: He's controlling the markets and earning super-high profits on market movements, since he can force others' hands by having larger volume than anyone else. Firstly, there's absolutely no evidence that this is happening and extensive evidence to the contrary.

I guess you missed the day pirate was in IRC and the market was just so happening to do exactly what he would say would happen about a minute after he said it was going to do something.

Just because he's done a few childish shows of his monetary might (where he actually lost money) does not mean he's earning high profits every day. To the contrary, as a matter of fact.
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August 15, 2012, 12:42:03 PM
 #823

I guess you missed the day pirate was in IRC and the market was just so happening to do exactly what he would say would happen about a minute after he said it was going to do something.
I am convinced that pirate holds enough BTC and USD to move the market significantly. I am not convinced that this can be a source of any more than a marginal amount of revenue. You take losses when you move the market, and even if the gains could exceed the losses (which they almost never do), you have to share them with everyone else trading.

I am an employee of Ripple.
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August 15, 2012, 12:46:45 PM
 #824

I guess you missed the day pirate was in IRC and the market was just so happening to do exactly what he would say would happen about a minute after he said it was going to do something.
I am convinced that pirate holds enough BTC and USD to move the market significantly. I am not convinced that this can be a source of any more than a marginal amount of revenue. You take losses when you move the market, and even if the gains could exceed the losses (which they almost never do), you have to share them with everyone else trading.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market

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August 15, 2012, 03:03:19 PM
 #825


The second option: He's controlling the markets and earning super-high profits on market movements, since he can force others' hands by having larger volume than anyone else. Firstly, there's absolutely no evidence that this is happening and extensive evidence to the contrary.

I guess you missed the day pirate was in IRC and the market was just so happening to do exactly what he would say would happen about a minute after he said it was going to do something.

Just because he's done a few childish shows of his monetary might (where he actually lost money) does not mean he's earning high profits every day. To the contrary, as a matter of fact.

If this thing truly is "in its last two weeks" because he can no longer continue to payout interest, then how would he have enough coins to move the market like that?

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August 15, 2012, 03:35:17 PM
 #826

If this thing truly is "in its last two weeks" because he can no longer continue to payout interest, then how would he have enough coins to move the market like that?

It seems he can no longer sustain a weekly 7% payout and is therefore trying to reduce his rates to 5%.

That would lose him the Vandroiy bet prematurely, but it does not matter to him when he loses it.

The interesting thing about a rate change is that it cuts both ways, as a lower rate also makes the "investments" somewhat less attractive, so some of his "investors" might withdraw. Therefore a rate change is a big gamble for him, but if he can't pay 7% any more, then he has no choice.

I would say it is another sign that the Ponzi scheme is nearing its end. It changes my admittedly rough estimate from months to weeks.
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August 15, 2012, 03:39:02 PM
 #827

It is unravelling. Let me remind you that the smartest rats are those that jump the ship first.

Just like in that flick: "whoever talks first stays on the helicopter..." only "whoever jumps the ship first keeps his capital". Good luck.



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August 15, 2012, 03:42:28 PM
 #828


Just because he's done a few childish shows of his monetary might (where he actually lost money) does not mean he's earning high profits every day. To the contrary, as a matter of fact.

If this thing truly is "in its last two weeks" because he can no longer continue to payout interest, then how would he have enough coins to move the market like that?

I never said his scheme is in its last two weeks. I assume he has hundreds of thousands of bitcoins, based on what others have estimated on this forum. If I were him, I'd have sold most of them already and converted them into something tangible (real estate in some hard-to-reach jurisdiction or something).

Actually, because he is the leading, most trusted bitcoin scammer, he might manage to keep his scheme going for several more months. Also, he just might have already decided that he lets the scheme run until its end, until he has no bitcoins at all left (I guess he's sold at least $500k worth already, and walking away with $500k might be profitable enough for him). With careful adjustments to the interest rate he might even be able to win his bet against Vandroiy, while still being a ponzi scammer.
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August 15, 2012, 03:47:18 PM
 #829

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

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August 15, 2012, 03:49:13 PM
 #830

If I were him, I'd have sold most of them already and converted them into something tangible (real estate in some hard-to-reach jurisdiction or something).

Good to know, thanks for the heads up to never do business with you on this forum.

We all need good advice from criminal minded people like you.

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August 15, 2012, 03:52:07 PM
 #831

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.
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August 15, 2012, 03:53:05 PM
 #832

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Until you can prove that, its just a theory.

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August 15, 2012, 03:54:58 PM
 #833

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Until you can prove that, its just a theory.

You sound like a creationist.

By the way, care to explain where I am wrong? A while back I lined out why the two main theories of how his business might be legit can't be true.
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August 15, 2012, 03:56:48 PM
 #834

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Until you can prove that, its just a theory.

You sound like a creationist.

By the way, care to explain where I am wrong? A while back I lined out why the two main theories of how his business might be legit can't be true.

Because that's how science and the rest of the world operate.. until there's evidence, its just an idea/theory.

And a while back, I outlined a theory that is extremely plausible. So much so, that maged is researching it now.

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August 15, 2012, 03:58:27 PM
 #835

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Oooh now you are an expert on how the economy works, please tell more. I will give you some free advice on how the economy of the world is working, its a massive ponzi scheme, nothing more.

Being jealous without facts doesnt make you an expert on any economy, nevermind the bitcoin economy.

Your narrow view on speculative facts, ahum yeh oxymoron hey! is a perfect example of how jealous the naive could be.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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August 15, 2012, 04:05:20 PM
 #836


Let's consider the two main "business models" people tend to propose for Pirate:

If there's almost unlimited demand for bitcoins among millionaire investors (there's no proof of this at all by the way; if this were the case, BTC price would be much higher) someone else would beat Pirate by selling to them at a smaller premium. Pirate must overprice his service since he has to pay his astronomically high interest on his debt. There's only so much you can do to overprice your service just by having the right connections. Someone will have almost as good connections and will be getting a fiat loan as 3% or lower yearly rate to finance a pirate-like service and keep his fees at a small fraction of what Pirate must charge. So, Pirate will be driven out of the market very quickly, since he has voluntarily crippled himself by issuing so much ultra-high interest debt.

The second option: He's controlling the markets and earning super-high profits on market movements, since he can force others' hands by having larger volume than anyone else. Firstly, there's absolutely no evidence that this is happening and extensive evidence to the contrary. Secondly, in a highly artificially manipulated market like this, all other players will change their behaviour in order to not lose so much. Even if he can do the manipulation at high profit ratio for a short time, eventually his returns will dwindle towards nil.

So, it's utterly unbelievable that either of these is the case.

+1, but you said it all in your first line.  This latest round of Team Ponzi & the FUDdettes (aq, clipse, imsaguy) are the latest to propose a possible business model for what they think is possibly an actual 3000%+ APR paying legitimate business.  Here is what Pirate says he does with your $1M+ USD worth of bitcoins, in his own words:

Q: What are my coins used for?
A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following:
Market Arbitrage
Private Loans To Network Members
Never Criminal/Illegal Related

Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates?
A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do.  

Keep making up possible business plans.  Keep piling on the denial.  

To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) :  do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan.


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August 15, 2012, 04:06:58 PM
 #837

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Oooh now you are an expert on how the economy works, please tell more. I will give you some free advice on how the economy of the world is working, its a massive ponzi scheme, nothing more.

Being jealous without facts doesnt make you an expert on any economy, nevermind the bitcoin economy.

Your narrow view on speculative facts, ahum yeh oxymoron hey! is a perfect example of how jealous the naive could be.

so you are basically saying "BCST is a Ponzi, but so what the rest of the world is too"

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August 15, 2012, 04:11:19 PM
 #838

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Until you can prove that, its just a theory.

You sound like a creationist.

By the way, care to explain where I am wrong? A while back I lined out why the two main theories of how his business might be legit can't be true.

Because that's how science and the rest of the world operate.. until there's evidence, its just an idea/theory.

And a while back, I outlined a theory that is extremely plausible. So much so, that maged is researching it now.

it is a slippery slope when Pirate's investors have to theorize his business unit that pays them 3000%+ per year in interest.  I know you want to keep your fingers in your ears and your eyes closed screaming over anyone explaining how obvious scam is obvious, but you refuse to ask anyone close to you about this - have a parent, a smart uncle (everyone has the degen uncle - don't ask him) or a college professor.  Ask anyone with an MBA, any accountant or CPA to look at this thread.  Ask any Lawyer or doctor you know to read this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0 and then ask them if it has any possibility of being legit.

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August 15, 2012, 04:11:35 PM
 #839

To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) :  do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan.

I have already.  There are similarities to a ponzi, but similarities aren't enough to determine one way or another.  I've never denied it isn't possible for him to be a ponzi, but no where have you acknowledged that its possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit. I believe its that lack of acknowledgment that shows your ignorance.  Just because you've been scammed in the past doesn't make you an expert in scams and/or economics.

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August 15, 2012, 04:11:46 PM
 #840

while still being a ponzi scammer.

Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong.

Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims.

This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works.

Oooh now you are an expert on how the economy works, please tell more. I will give you some free advice on how the economy of the world is working, its a massive ponzi scheme, nothing more.

Being jealous without facts doesnt make you an expert on any economy, nevermind the bitcoin economy.

Your narrow view on speculative facts, ahum yeh oxymoron hey! is a perfect example of how jealous the naive could be.

so you are basically saying "BCST is a Ponzi, but so what the rest of the world is too"

I didnt expect you to respond with anything less considering your absolute braindead way of moving around live as documented on the internet. Smiley

Now for people with brains, no I didnt mean that at all.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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