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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 107959 times)
gene
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August 11, 2012, 03:17:01 PM
 #601

This:

Who needs a 51% attack when you can just make sure every newspaper article on bitcoin forever mentions the countless ponzi schemes and untold millions stolen from credulous fools?

It is clear that the repercussions will be substantial.

And now you've hit the nail on the head for why I care.

Thank you.  I will say that I should probably recuse myself from this debate at this point.  [mental pollution mercifully omitted]

Glad to see your concession.

Interesting. This point seems to make the con-artists wince.

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gene
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August 11, 2012, 03:52:09 PM
 #602

hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?

Good point. Are you Ian Grice?

Quote
domain name: PAYB.TC
registrar: Key-Systems GmbH
url: http://www.key-systems.net
status: ok
created date: 2011-06-02 00:00:00
updated date: 2012-08-10 10:32:30
expiration date: 2013-06-02 00:00:00
owner-contact: P-IIG25
owner-organization: Ian Grice
owner-name: Ian Grice
owner-street: 86 Monash Rd
owner-city: Brisbane
owner-zip: 4000
owner-country: AU
owner-phone: +61.414235463
owner-fax: +61.111111111
owner-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.net
admin-contact: P-IFG21
admin-organization: Ian Grice
admin-name: Ian Grice
admin-street: 86 Monash Rd
admin-city: Brisbane
admin-zip: 4000
admin-country: AU
admin-phone: +61.414235463
admin-fax: +61.111111111
admin-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.net
tech-contact: P-IMG21
tech-organization: Ian Grice
tech-name: Ian Grice
tech-street: 86 Monash Rd
tech-city: Brisbane
tech-zip: 4000
tech-country: AU
tech-phone: +61.414235463
tech-fax: +61.111111111
tech-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.net
billing-contact: P-TSB21
billing-organization: TLDs@RRPproxy.net Billing Department
billing-name: TLDs@RRPproxy.net Billing Department
billing-street: Im Oberen Werk 1
billing-city: St. Ingbert
billing-zip: 66386
billing-country: DE
billing-phone: +49.68949396870
billing-fax: +49.68949396871
billing-email: adamsnames@rrpproxy.net
nameserver: ns1.nationalnet.com
nameserver: ns2.nationalnet.com

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grue
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August 11, 2012, 04:02:28 PM
 #603

hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?

Good point. Are you Ian Grice?

[whois dump]
you can tell he's using a proxy registrar, so he doesn't have to put his real name.

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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gene
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August 11, 2012, 04:04:01 PM
 #604

hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?

Good point. Are you Ian Grice?

[whois dump]
you can tell he's using a proxy registrar, so he doesn't have to put his real name.

This makes the point then. He refuses to identify himself.

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Micon
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August 11, 2012, 11:59:37 PM
 #605

for your or not to come in:

- a guy named Pirate is the first person to run a legitimate investment program to return 3000%+ APR
- he has this amazing way to make BTC by using BTC.  Market arbitraging like a boss or whatever
- now he can make large amounts of BTC, already has large amounts of BTC (remember he is killing it at whatever he is doing that he can't tell you) but for some reason still needs new investors each week, wanting to share the huge bounty

You are in a massive state of denial to still be in on the fence.  It's Ponzi101 and you are the largest affiliate.  You are responsible for building it bigger.  Or not.

No, no, no.
If he didn't do it, someone else would have. He's located a demand in a market and he's making a buck, like all the PPT operators. Idk why I've been sticking up for these guys, maybe because your accusing them makes your cause look like a witch hunt when it shouldn't be. You're not going to scare away all the PPTs. People who want to give to Pirate will find away to do so. I'd run a PPT right now if I could and I wouldn't think twice about the ethics of it.
 
I'm sure there are far better analogies than this one off the top of my head... are syringe manufacturers in the wrong by making it easier for heroin addicts to shoot up?

1)  Shameful that you would run a PPT right now.

2)  when you allow scams to operate under "lending" the forum is giving credibility to them.   by not saying or doing anything is giving them credibility.  I mean, one of them is even stickied here!  talk about a ringing endorsement to a newbie user...

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
miscreanity
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August 12, 2012, 02:56:05 AM
 #606

Micon, I'm not sure about this one. Let me know if you think it's a Ponzi.
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August 12, 2012, 02:59:59 AM
 #607

Micon, I'm not sure about this one. Let me know if you think it's a Ponzi.

lol well played sir.

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August 12, 2012, 10:17:10 AM
 #608

Micon, I'm not sure about this one. Let me know if you think it's a Ponzi.

lol well played sir.

Quote
In fact, your balance goes to 0 on day one. What you get in return is the assurance that your balance can never go down thereafter.

Haha brilliant.

Shadow383
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August 12, 2012, 12:14:01 PM
 #609

hey geniuses, ever heard of whois.net?

Good point. Are you Ian Grice?

[whois dump]
you can tell he's using a proxy registrar, so he doesn't have to put his real name.

This makes the point then. He refuses to identify himself.

you guys should seriously consider joining mensa.

Because sarcasm and insults are a total substitute for transparency and honesty...
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August 12, 2012, 12:29:27 PM
 #610

Just to make sure i get it.

  • You have an estimated 100k btc (1M USD) in users deposits
  • You don't want to provide identification
  • You try to say that you provided it when you registered the domain name, but in fact you didn't

Wow, is that for real ??



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gene
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August 12, 2012, 01:36:23 PM
 #611

Just to make sure i get it.

  • You have an estimated 100k btc (1M USD) in users deposits
  • You don't want to provide identification
  • You try to say that you provided it when you registered the domain name, but in fact you didn't

Wow, is that for real ??




You're correct.

He's also deleted all his posts here in an effort to save face:

by the way if anyone asks, i deleted all my posts out of the retard thread.

don't want that one popping up in my "show new replies" list any more.

it's a bit rough on the emotions, having people post outright lies about you and then have their sheep believe it as factual,

so i'm gonna try not to spend 12 hours a day on the forum any more.

...will check in once a day to support bitcoin max.


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gene
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August 12, 2012, 02:33:00 PM
 #612

Note that payb.tc is citing emotional distress as the reason for the deletions.  Cry

More likely is that he and his ilk feel that they can no longer control the message in here and are consolidating and shutting up. This follows pirate's pattern and incidentally closely matches prior ponzi operator behavior.

http://web.archive.org/web/20091026234156/http://geocities.com/currintrading/

Some approaches (to be used in phases or in combination):

Quote
I decided not to respond on the forums. I knew that I would quickly be asked for proof of CT's legitimacy, and I knew that I would have no investors to defend me. Instead, I decided to let the forum thread die.

Quote
If I was going to use the forums for my own advantage, I would need to find a way of neutralizing the forum skeptics. For the foregoing reasons, it would not be possible to win them over, but if I could shut them up for a long enough period, I might be able to persuade ordinary readers of the forums to invest.

Quote
Using the pretext of a lottery, I could draft all of my investors into an army and unleash them upon the forums--or at least one forum thread. Once again, my phantom team proved useful.

On threat-flooding:
Quote
The skeptics were soon suffocated. Investors poured into the thread constantly. Even when one skeptic showed up to make a particularly thorough and blistering denunciation of my pyramid scheme, it was futile. His post was buried by all of the positive ones, and his post was lost among the several pages of replies that soon stacked up. My army and I were triumphant.

And much, much more.

Really, there is much in common with this document:
http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

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labestiol
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August 12, 2012, 02:47:47 PM
 #613

Note that payb.tc is citing emotional distress as the reason for the deletions.  Cry

Clearly, making around 10k$ a week is really tough emotionally, nobody realize how bad it feels...

Quote from: gene

This read was an eye-opener to me, convinced me that the pattern was far too similar to invest anything in pirate & friends.

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molecular
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August 12, 2012, 05:13:53 PM
 #614


a very captivating read. thanks for the link, gene.

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
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August 12, 2012, 05:15:56 PM
 #615

For anyone who thinks Pirate is legit, swing by talkgold.com's HYIP scams.

Ponzi schemes were inevitable for bitcoin.

We will see many more of them.
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August 12, 2012, 06:17:44 PM
 #616

For anyone who thinks Pirate is legit, swing by talkgold.com

you mean the "Bitcoins was a scam"-thread: http://www.talkgold.com/forum/r340544-.html?

Quote
Yep, it was a pump and dump scam. Which is why it plummeted. Sorry for those who got suckered into this.

I think you'd have to point us more specifically or give us some sort of a hint as to how this forum tells us pirate is not legit. Do you think pirate sells the BTC and invests them into these high risk investment programs presented there?

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August 12, 2012, 06:40:30 PM
 #617

I see most posts which says its good & legit , seems to have posted very less posts, mostly 2 digit numbers.
Seems new members have more knowledge & experience than old ones.
Stephen Gornick
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August 12, 2012, 06:43:52 PM
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Except that the entire value of losses in that currintrading scam totaled about $50K USD.  This is between one to two orders of magnitude greater.

Also, scams were allowed in that virtual world and there was almost no legitimacy in anything.  EVE players involved were just thrill seekers, essentially.

That currintrading post-mortem is great reading though.  It gives great insight into the mind of the ponzi master.


Really, there is much in common with this document:
http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm


One thing that doesn't get enough consideration is that there are people who do not want Bitcoin to be successful.  Perhaps Austrian economics drives a stake through their belief system or for others it is the fear that Bitcoin will displace their gold and silver where Bitcoin threatens the value of the wealth they've accumulated over the years.

For whatever reason, there are people who would like nothing more than for a ponzi scheme to suck up hundreds of thousands of bitcoins from those who willingly handed them over and to some day read headlines about a several million dollar ponzi that will further sully the Bitcoin brand.

Even without being invested themselves, these ponzi-promoters will argue endlessly to support the ponzi as to them the end justifies the means.

So, the operator of a ponzi and the feeder funds are in it for the profit.  There is then a vocal minority that will defend it.  There is also the ponzi investor base that are either sheep being led to slaughter or are aware of the risks and continue on believing the collapse to be far enough out that the potential to snag profit exists yet.  Few of the victims can claim innocence when later making pleas for mercy to get their money back.

Seeing growth in not just the number of "investors" but in the amounts involved is something both entertaining and satisfying to those who want to see maximum pain inflicted to Bitcoin.  The longer this goes, the bigger their smile.

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August 12, 2012, 06:50:56 PM
 #619

Seems those who cant able to shutdown Bitcoin, now using ponzi's to cheat people, so that Bitcoin itself will become a ponzi or scam & die.

If you cant attack in front, attack from behind.
gene
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August 12, 2012, 06:57:16 PM
 #620

Stephen Gornick, you are correct on all points.

Given the likely fallout, it is certainly possible that this recent scourge of ponzi schemes is a deliberate and concerted effort to undermine bitcoin.

On a related note, I think these questions are worth cross-posting:

Theymos and other admins/moderators/etc.,

In the interest of transparency and since you are de facto gatekeepers here, would you each care to describe your individual positions on profiting from (via ads) and facilitating the promotion of manifest frauds?

Are you comfortable accepting responsibility for your roles and will you accept the blame for providing a venue for con-artists and not taking due diligence in protecting bitcoin newcomers? Will you be pleased to explain your current choices, actions, and non-actions once this superstructure of fraud collapses?

Finally, do you believe that your current choices, actions, and non-actions will help or hurt bitcoin in the long-term? Please justify your response.

Given the facts of the currently unfolding situation, these questions seem quite reasonable and are salient to the stakeholders in the bitcoin community.

I should also note that your actions to date imply much about the above, but your individual responses or non-responses may be illuminating, nonetheless.

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