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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 107883 times)
nrd525
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July 27, 2012, 05:19:21 AM
 #61

I've been wondering about Leandro Cesar's Brazilian "Investment Group".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46750.0;

He recently got into a bit of trouble with the Brazilian regulatory authorities (for not having a license, not for any evidence of ponzi).  Though it looks like he is planning to keep it going.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95399.0

What do you think?

Don't day trade.
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CoinCidental
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July 27, 2012, 05:22:04 AM
 #62

How do YOU  know there is no business unit  behind it ?
Do you have any proof that pirate is NOT  making profit  from trading or other means  like he claims to be ?
The better question is whether you have any evidence, let alone proof, that there is such an investment.

I am not making allegations of anything ,i honestly dont know if it is or it isnt

You seem to know for sure its a scam  ,i think you should provide proof ?,not me
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July 27, 2012, 07:02:25 AM
 #63

I suggest you create a bounty for the person or persons who can bring proof that it is a ponzi. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would donate to that (especially the investors themselves). It would be much more helpful than laying down thousands of bitcoins for bets against pirate.
what more proof do you need that a business with absolutely no business function?

This won't get you anywhere and will result in the rehashing of the good old "debate"s. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it really isn't helping in any way. Quite the contrary, it's making both sides more rigid.

If you really care about the situation, you could do something like what I proposed. Even if it's not successful, it has research value. We need such investigations in other areas as well, and it would be cool to see how far bounties can take us and what kind of difficulties it might bring (it could also have negative consequences, e.g. unnecessarily disrupting business or exposing private trade information, which probably should be restricted by contest terms). For some perspective, AFAIK someone got into a bet with pirate for 5000BTC, and it's almost guaranteed that he will lose. Imagine a quarter of that 45000 USD were spent on an actual investigation by professionals.
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July 27, 2012, 06:49:03 PM
 #64

For some perspective, AFAIK someone got into a bet with pirate for 5000BTC, and it's almost guaranteed that he will lose.

Do you have a source for that almost guarantee?

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July 27, 2012, 09:05:59 PM
 #65

For some perspective, AFAIK someone got into a bet with pirate for 5000BTC, and it's almost guaranteed that he will lose.

Do you have a source for that almost guarantee?

Okay, I re-read the contract now, apparently I misread 2013 as 2012 the last time. You have a point.

All I'm saying is, if it's that important, there are other options to explore than Occam's razoring the forums.
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July 27, 2012, 09:13:24 PM
 #66

Okay, I re-read the contract now, apparently I misread 2013 as 2012 the last time. You have a point.

All I'm saying is, if it's that important, there are other options to explore than Occam's razoring the forums.

I don't think the bet proved anything.

If pirate defaults, he will be up hundreds of thousands of bitcoins.  He won't mind having lost a 5k bet; it will have been worth it for the good PR it generated - the "hey, BS&T must be legit if pirate is willing to bet such a large amount that he doesn't default" PR.

Micon should get in on some of that action.  Offer to make another 5k BTC (or 12k?  that has a nice ring to it) bet with pirate on the same terms as the other bet maybe.  It's a dead cert, right?

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July 27, 2012, 09:30:25 PM
 #67

If pirate defaults, he will be up hundreds of thousands of bitcoins.  He won't mind having lost a 5k bet; it will have been worth it for the good PR it generated - the "hey, BS&T must be legit if pirate is willing to bet such a large amount that he doesn't default" PR.

I agree, it wasn't my intention to say otherwise. I should have read the terms more carefully.

Micon should get in on some of that action.  Offer to make another 5k BTC (or 12k?  that has a nice ring to it) bet with pirate on the same terms as the other bet maybe.  It's a dead cert, right?

Well at one point this could become pirate's primary business. Wink
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July 27, 2012, 09:42:29 PM
 #68

Come Bryan, dont pussy out now.

Respond to my post regarding FACTS about you and your dealings and not pure speculation as you have put forth in this thread.

You sir are an poker community outcast simply due to your ability to act and scam like a retard wherever you go and then getting scammed because you were oozing puss of greed.

don't worry.  just because I didn't post in 12 hrs doesn't mean I won't be responding.  I will respond completely to both ponzi schemes and any ethical accusations when I return from a meal with m'lady.  Be back in a few.


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July 27, 2012, 09:48:46 PM
 #69

Okay, I re-read the contract now, apparently I misread 2013 as 2012 the last time. You have a point.

All I'm saying is, if it's that important, there are other options to explore than Occam's razoring the forums.

I don't think the bet proved anything.

If pirate defaults, he will be up hundreds of thousands of bitcoins.  He won't mind having lost a 5k bet; it will have been worth it for the good PR it generated - the "hey, BS&T must be legit if pirate is willing to bet such a large amount that he doesn't default" PR.

Micon should get in on some of that action.  Offer to make another 5k BTC (or 12k?  that has a nice ring to it) bet with pirate on the same terms as the other bet maybe.  It's a dead cert, right?

wow I would love to get in as much money as possible as a guaranteed win.  Who is the single most trusted Escrow for such a large amount of BTC?  I can't imagine one I would trust other than putting the wallet.dat file on an HD in my Aria box. 

sounds like a great PR move to take a $500k USD ponzi to a $2.2M ponzi for $45k.  Scammers gonna scam, and they are gonna scam better and more anonymously with BTC.  And ppl like me will work tirelessly to stop them and educate the ppl currently getting scammed on how to mitigate the damage starting now.

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
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July 27, 2012, 10:04:34 PM
 #70


I observe poker is a game of chance and there is some skill that can be applied.  But I would prefer not to take investment advice from a card player - I consider that a deficient qualification.

I will concur that experience does not necessarily lead to wisdom.  It depends on the person.  Some people are wise with limited experience.

I happen to be older than 33 (this person) and I object to his characterisation of forum members as "kiddies", elevating himself above others he has no knowledge of.

The credit rating metrics you refer to are a mechanical process as set out in the relevant thread and are based on principles covers by Standard and Poors in their publications on Corporate Credit Ratings.  It looks at the financial ability of different issuers to make good their liabilities.  I do not need to do that, and someone else could easily have done so.  I am not asking anyone to rely on them, and of the 12 requests for information, only 1/3rd have responded.  However, you point here is more about discrediting my point of view rather than looking at the credentials of the OP and the advice he is giving.  If you wish to debate credit ratings, please do so in the relevant thread.

Sir,

your defense of the BTC ponzi industry, which will crumble in a relatively short period of time, is dead wrong.  You mention principles of Standard and Poors & corporate credit ratings in the same thread as BTC ponzi schemes - you are comparing financial ratings based on balance sheets of multi-national corporations whom have to adhere to SEC accounting laws with what amounts to nothing more than a scamming lemonade stand on the internet

Nice comparison you have there.

The truth about the world banking sector is allready out but then again you only look at a deck of cards 24/7 so you clearly have no idea about the LIBOR scandal, HSBC scandal etc.

SEC is non-existing, its bought and paid for by the banks so they can self regulate themself(non-regulation) and if you still think the world is run by those who offer a service(banks) and monitored by capable indepdent SEC offices then sir you have no fucking idea whats going on in this world.

Its time for you to spend atleast 10% of your gambling disease time and find out whats going on in the real world, there is NO REGULATION and it allready crumbled, please note $4.6 trillion missing pension funds due to LIBOR scandal and this is slowly affecting every country.

I have some wisdom for you, first educate yourself before you have the nerve to try and educate others.

Here is a fun read about Bryan Micon: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/bryan-micon-rolled-12k-o-town-singers-buddy-19295/

This was one of the GEMs of the quoted forum post made by Bryan Micon on NWP:

Quote from: micon
Quote:
Get me my [censored] $ back and I'll give you $2k of it. Tell me what you need clarified. If someone wants to take off the month of October and has a car and nothing else to do (I think I have a good shot of finding someone like that here....) I'll pay your expenses for a few weeks to go DOG bounty hunter-style on his ass and of course upload pictures and video to NWP as you go.

LMAO!!!!

Quote from: twoplustwo forum
Ok, one. But it is only from 10 days ago. Micon launches
SNGDOMINATION.COM

Micon's SNG results:

Micon 578 -$2 $83 -2% -$936 - FullTilt
micon 883 -$4 $92 4% -$3,900 - PokerStars

Just to give you an idea, Micon launches a training site to teach people how to win SNG's but at the same time look at his SNG track record just before launching the site? Micon isnt even a clever scammer, just play retarded.

Quote from: twoplustwo forum
"give me 12k and i give you 100k tomorrow . . ."

Thats how Micon got scammed, he paid someone 12K cause the guy told him he would get 100K back the day after ie. Micon was happy to invest 12k for 24hrs in return looking for ~833% Interest. Legendary Micon, you go champ of scam detections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-mBUA-uUDM  -> Priceless, total douche and perhaps an Phil Hellmuth impersonator since he cant stand on his own 2 sticks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdpuTMY6yMU -> Must watch, self proclaimed superstar opens his heart over his own absolute karma-based stupidity. Yes Bryan this is what happens when you scam others out of their money selling pokerbooks with a losing poker playing history on the subject you are training ie. SNG.

The worst thing possible for the bitcoin poker industry is to get Micon involved up front, he will fucking destroy all hope for it.

(she's taking some time to get ready, didn't realize it was a slam-dunk and wouldn't require any time)

1)  yes I was paid to put my name on a handful of poker teaching products, I told them what I knew and the company that paid me marketed it.  Here are some SNG stats maybe you missed: 



2)  check my live stats / up $250k at Rio since 2006 / 2 WSOP FTs, 63rd in the main event.  Seriously, let's argue more about my poker playing and less about $1M+ BTC ponzi schemes.

3)  Donkdown is my poker forum and podcast, anyone can call me up any show and debate me on any topic.  this invitation is open to you.  We can debate my poker ability, results, and respect in the poker community.  Listen to my last 2 podcast, where Jennifer Harmon was our special guest one week followed by a 40-minute interview with Daniel Negraneu the next.  I think these people do not come on scamming podcast shows run by scumbags.

4)  In addition to gambling, I am involved with a handful of other ventures.  I'd say my time is split closer to 60/40 in favor of business these days.  Take a google around me, and see if you really think I'm a total scumbag or may be a guy with a few years on him that can spot some major scams and hopefully save some ppl some BTC.

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
dooglus
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July 27, 2012, 10:41:28 PM
 #71

wow I would love to get in as much money as possible as a guaranteed win.  Who is the single most trusted Escrow for such a large amount of BTC?  I can't imagine one I would trust other than putting the wallet.dat file on an HD in my Aria box.

The existing bet is for 5000 BTC, and is being escrowed by nanotube, the guy who set up the bitcoin-otc web of trust stuff.  Here's the contract that both parties signed:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91661.msg1013612#msg1013612

and here's a very odd message from Pirate hinting a something happening in August that will decide the result of the bet and attempting to get Vandroiy to concede the bet:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95008.msg1051580#msg1051580

If you're serious about wanting some of that action, Pirate can be found in the #btcst channel on the Freenode IRC network.  Or 'pirateat40' on these forums.  I don't know whether he's looking to make more bets or not.

3)  Donkdown is my poker forum and podcast, anyone can call me up any show and debate me on any topic.  this invitation is open to you.  We can debate my poker ability, results, and respect in the poker community.  Listen to my last 2 podcast, where Jennifer Harmon was our special guest one week [...]

I actually listened to that show.  I tuned in to get the Seals with Clubs freeroll password ("it grows back fast") and ended up listening to the whole show (and found out that what grows back fast is the hair on some poker player's ex-girlfriend's ass).  So I can't say the show didn't have a certain educational value.

The Jennifer Harmon interview was quite special.  I liked how you coincidentally had her dogs on the show shortly before her because the guy you interviewed before her just happened to be looking after her dogs at the time!

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July 27, 2012, 10:51:23 PM
 #72

I am an ex winning low/mid stakes poker player.  I quit after Uni work took too much time, variance was not fun, oh and obv black friday (lost big 4 figures on FTP).

I personally dont care about other peoples poker careers, donk or not; and this is not a poker forum, nor is this a poker thread.

Why not keep this on topic talking about if or if not what he says are ponzis, or, make another thread to belittle op.

For those interested

Bitcoin Savings and Trust will default before the end of September 2012
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July 27, 2012, 11:36:11 PM
 #73

I've been wondering about Leandro Cesar's Brazilian "Investment Group".
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46750.0;

He recently got into a bit of trouble with the Brazilian regulatory authorities (for not having a license, not for any evidence of ponzi).  Though it looks like he is planning to keep it going.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95399.0

What do you think?

1)  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46750.0 this is a total scam, obviously. 

2)  use the following test to see if any of these "investment groups" or "high interest savings accounts" are scams: 

2a)  DO THEY DO ANYTHING AT ALL TO MAKE MONEY
2b)  if the answer isn't anything that makes sense, it's a scam.  "trading" is not an acceptable answer.   All of these investments that claim to pay these outrageous rates of interest are scams, will fail, the fallout will be felt far and wide by this young community (both age of the technology and age of the average user)

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
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July 28, 2012, 02:07:36 AM
 #74

You might as well add the most likely scam to your list: "Dank Bank"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93003

I was thinking that as well. Do people actually go for that? Seems like a relatively new user to be handing real money to.
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July 28, 2012, 02:10:01 AM
 #75

You might as well add the most likely scam to your list: "Dank Bank"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93003

I was thinking that as well. Do people actually go for that? Seems like a relatively new user to be handing real money to.

He's been taking out loans here for a long time. His first post was over a year ago.
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July 28, 2012, 02:11:33 AM
 #76

You might as well add the most likely scam to your list: "Dank Bank"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93003

I was thinking that as well. Do people actually go for that? Seems like a relatively new user to be handing real money to.

He's been taking out loans here for a long time. His first post was over a year ago.

You are right.  Was looking at another thread.  Striking that.

Does have the characteristic high rates for larger, longer terms, however.
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July 28, 2012, 02:30:13 AM
 #77

7)  Just a good list of ponzi's  --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0

congratulations, you're an idiot!

(BFL)^2 < 0
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July 28, 2012, 03:24:20 AM
 #78

You might as well add the most likely scam to your list: "Dank Bank"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93003
I was wondering when someone would say that.  However, I have three investors in my Dank Bank program and I'm not relying on new investors for the interest.  I do use the capital on real investments, I debated whether to start such a program because I do not want to start a ponzi scheme.

It may go away someday, who knows, I may return the deposits to the investors and say thanks for your business, or I may keep paying them for most of my life.  I have declared that I will be a successful multimillionaire one day, and as long as things go smoothly I wouldn't mind keeping Dank Bank around to help out the people who supported me and my dream.

13oZY8zzWEp48XZpEEi8zSkYJF5AWR2vXc DMhYmNzMnU2Avgu7sF3GSDybHumj8XH8V8
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July 28, 2012, 04:01:14 AM
 #79

You might as well add the most likely scam to your list: "Dank Bank"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93003
I was wondering when someone would say that.  However, I have three investors in my Dank Bank program and I'm not relying on new investors for the interest.  I do use the capital on real investments, I debated whether to start such a program because I do not want to start a ponzi scheme.

It may go away someday, who knows, I may return the deposits to the investors and say thanks for your business, or I may keep paying them for most of my life.  I have declared that I will be a successful multimillionaire one day, and as long as things go smoothly I wouldn't mind keeping Dank Bank around to help out the people who supported me and my dream.

Dank Bank added, you are running a scam and you know it.

feel free to explain your business unit that allows you to pay 2%+ interest per week.

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July 28, 2012, 04:03:03 AM
 #80

You might as well add the most likely scam to your list: "Dank Bank"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93003

tytyty

how many of these damn things are out there?  cmon ppl no one cleaned this bullshit up yet?

do you trust what bitpay says on these matters?  Real businesses are hurt by these BTC scams. 

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
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