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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 107967 times)
JoelKatz
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August 21, 2012, 09:17:13 AM
 #1001

Selling  1000 ppts or even a few thousand would be small change for pirate- dont' think it would be worth the effort.
That's why I suggested he held and is selling "a large number" of PPTs. The 1,000 BTC worth of PPTs was an example of a single transaction he might make. This is something he can only do if he has a reasonably large window where he doesn't have to make any payouts but won't create a panic by not making payouts. This is precisely what he has created.

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August 21, 2012, 09:28:57 AM
 #1002

Selling  1000 ppts or even a few thousand would be small change for pirate- dont' think it would be worth the effort.
That's why I suggested he held and is selling "a large number" of PPTs. The 1,000 BTC worth of PPTs was an example of a single transaction he might make. This is something he can only do if he has a reasonably large window where he doesn't have to make any payouts but won't create a panic by not making payouts. This is precisely what he has created.

There isnt a large number of insured PPTs or even low cost PPts to be had.

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August 21, 2012, 09:40:21 AM
 #1003

Sticking my neck out in here to ask something really noobish "what the hell is a ponzi?" LOL
I been lurking around posts hopeing I could just read it somewhere without exposing myself as thick!
But you all seem to know what everyting is LOL.

I understand what is going on with BS&T ATM and only a few of the "banks" listed here actually claim to be a pirate pass through.
there is someting i'm obviously missing, and would seek wisdom here if I may please.

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August 21, 2012, 09:50:46 AM
 #1004

From: [CLOSED] Imsaguy's PPT @ 7%

Interest payments were made electronically (redeposited) but not actually sent out.

 Shocked Roll Eyes

Was this standard operating procedure for the pass throughs?

This is another signature ponzi move. Have some context:

Quote
The regular payment of so-called dividends induces investors to bring friends, family members, or business colleagues into the scheme and to put up additional funds themselves now that they are convinced of its veracity.

The operators will also persuade you, with little effort, to "roll over" your "profits" into another investment cycle, so your actual return ends up being back on paper only.

They may decide to provide you with just "statements" showing you your profits rather than sending out cheques,
but the receipt of a cheque in the mail seems to generate more enthusiasm for participants, and it ultimately makes it back to the con at any rate.

This kind of setup relies on keeping his victims from knowing they are being cheated for as long as possible so others can be lured in.

...

Mark Fleming
Consumer Protection Lawyer

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/MajorPerson/ponzi.htm

Squall1066, see: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme.
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August 21, 2012, 09:57:39 AM
 #1005

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102079.0

want bitlane on DD radio on Wed.

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JoelKatz
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August 21, 2012, 10:05:07 AM
 #1006

There isnt a large number of insured PPTs or even low cost PPts to be had.
If the total value of all outstanding tradeable PPTs isn't that high, or the trade volume in them is fairly low, then that would prove that this isn't happening. In that case, I'm baffled by this.

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hgmichna
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August 21, 2012, 11:12:33 AM
 #1007

This should be considered the second stall.  Remember, Pirateat40's game now is the infinite stall - from this point forward there will only be vague excuses and very close to zero block-chain verified large payments.  There is a small chance of 1 or 2 payouts to a smaller pass throughs to give the appearance of the beginning of payments, but very unlikely.
Do you have any theories on why he would do this at all? It seems to me that it would make much more sense for him to just disappear with everyone's money. What does stalling buy him?

Time.

If he was over-optimistic when he lowered his interest rates, he may not have expected to have to shut down now and may not have been fully prepared.

He may need lots of time to sort everything out. He may have to cover his tracks, wind down positions, sell a few last bitcoins, do a number of international wire transfers, perhaps even open new bank accounts, which takes some time.

If he intended to flee physically, he may have to sell his accommodation, furniture, etc., buy airline or other tickets, but we don't know whether he will do that.

Anyway, these things take time, and he is certainly worried about being caught.
JoelKatz
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August 21, 2012, 11:18:06 AM
 #1008

Time.

If he was over-optimistic when he lowered his interest rates, he may not have expected to have to shut down now and may not have been fully prepared.

He may need lots of time to sort everything out. He may have to cover his tracks, wind down positions, sell a few last bitcoins, do a number of international wire transfers, perhaps even open new bank accounts, which takes some time.

If he intended to flee physically, he may have to sell his accommodation, furniture, etc., buy airline or other tickets, but we don't know whether he will do that.

Anyway, these things take time, and he is certainly worried about being caught.
I guess a working theory is this: Withdrawals were starting to get very close to, or even exceed, deposits. To preserve his profits and try to keep going a bit longer, he reduced the interest rate, figuring this would reduce the withdrawals without significantly reducing deposits. Instead, this backfired, either increasing withdrawals, reducing deposits, or both. This forced him to shut down his operation earlier than he had planned to, so he needs time to wind down all his positions so that he can run with them.

Assuming there's no volume of PPTs to double-dip with, I don't have any other theory.


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hgmichna
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August 21, 2012, 11:37:48 AM
 #1009


Thread title:
Hey Pirate, it's Monday....WHERE ARE MY BITCOINS ?
Today at 12:10:15 AM

Funny, the whole circus is already starting. I thought his stalling tactics would keep him out of it for about a week.

From now on it will mostly go as expected. There will be a lot of noise, but I also think that after a couple of weeks, maybe a month or two, the thing will be mostly forgotten, and bitcointalk.org will look as usual. Those who lost their money will disappear.

Most painfully, those who have their money in other Ponzi schemes will insist that theirs is legitimate and will defend it just as fervently as the pirate followers defended pirate until today.
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August 21, 2012, 11:46:12 AM
 #1010

I guess a working theory is this: Withdrawals were starting to get very close to, or even exceed, deposits. To preserve his profits and try to keep going a bit longer, he reduced the interest rate, figuring this would reduce the withdrawals without significantly reducing deposits. Instead, this backfired, either increasing withdrawals, reducing deposits, or both. This forced him to shut down his operation earlier than he had planned to, so he needs time to wind down all his positions so that he can run with them.

Yes, I also believe this is the most likely process. I predicted it on August 15th already, which makes me wonder why he could not predict it himself. But perhaps he did, and it was just a gamble.

Nonetheless the wind-down procedure can easily take more time than anybody expected, so it shouldn't surprise us that he is trying to play for time. It doesn't seem to work very well though. The first noisy "WHERE ARE MY BITCOINS?" thread is already gathering comments, and there will be more.
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August 21, 2012, 12:07:51 PM
 #1011

Do you have any theories on why he would do this at all? It seems to me that it would make much more sense for him to just disappear with everyone's money. What does stalling buy him?

It's not that calculated. He's been running his scheme for over a year, and came to enjoy his status in the bitcoin community. Just like his "investors", he doesn't want to admit the gig is up.
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August 21, 2012, 12:51:06 PM
 #1012

I dont believe this theory...........


if it been a ponzi since day 1 ,pirate wouldnt wait until now (judgement day ) to start selling his furniture and making plans to move to another country

he would have designed an exit long long ago .......

there is a few beautiful countries in the you could live in with 500,000+ btcST coins + 30k of his own BTC (like he claims to have )

selling coins slowly @ $10  would leave him millions of dollrs if that was the plan and with that much ,you could be set for life inn a country in south america or south east asia with that much cash and very little chance of being caught Smiley

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August 21, 2012, 03:36:50 PM
 #1013

Pirate's self-imposed deadline was one week, yet Team Ponzi is already screaming scam/stall. It would be one thing if Friday comes and goes without any sign of funds. Then I'd be apt to start raising objections as well.

If you're completely calm and have no direct knowledge of how Pirate's operation works, you might be a little off in the head. If you're not even invested and have the gall to scream scam when there's no direct evidence, you're as confused as statist apologists.

As it stands, there are three more days. Save the pitchforks for the weekend.
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August 21, 2012, 03:41:55 PM
 #1014

Pirate's self-imposed deadline was one week, yet Team Ponzi is already screaming scam/stall. It would be one thing if Friday comes and goes without any sign of funds. Then I'd be apt to start raising objections as well.

If you're completely calm and have no direct knowledge of how Pirate's operation works, you might be a little off in the head. If you're not even invested and have the gall to scream scam when there's no direct evidence, you're as confused as statist apologists.

As it stands, there are three more days. Save the pitchforks for the weekend.

lol, victims gonna victim. Where's that stockholm syndrome link...
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August 21, 2012, 03:56:12 PM
 #1015

lol, victims gonna victim. Where's that stockholm syndrome link...

Victims don't have a choice.
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August 21, 2012, 04:02:57 PM
 #1016

From: [CLOSED] Imsaguy's PPT @ 7%

Interest payments were made electronically (redeposited) but not actually sent out.

 Shocked Roll Eyes

Was this standard operating procedure for the pass throughs?

This is another signature ponzi move. Have some context:

Quote
The regular payment of so-called dividends induces investors to bring friends, family members, or business colleagues into the scheme and to put up additional funds themselves now that they are convinced of its veracity.

The operators will also persuade you, with little effort, to "roll over" your "profits" into another investment cycle, so your actual return ends up being back on paper only.

They may decide to provide you with just "statements" showing you your profits rather than sending out cheques,
but the receipt of a cheque in the mail seems to generate more enthusiasm for participants, and it ultimately makes it back to the con at any rate.

This kind of setup relies on keeping his victims from knowing they are being cheated for as long as possible so others can be lured in.

...

Mark Fleming
Consumer Protection Lawyer

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/MajorPerson/ponzi.htm

Squall1066, see: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme.


elux - Thanks, just finnished reserching, I't just that ponzi is said to mainly get you to re-invest your intrest "compounding" so you don't actually see it comeing back to you, So they can pay some withdraws out without any hassle, and when the pot is big enough they can up and leave, Some lenders do offer payouts, but most pay intrest out, There is obvious confusion between ponzi and scam.
also It should be called the "dickens scheme" lol

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Bascule
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August 21, 2012, 04:15:16 PM
 #1017

lol, victims gonna victim. Where's that stockholm syndrome link...

Victims don't have a choice.

These ones did. They chose to send money to people promising high rates of interest.
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August 21, 2012, 04:21:42 PM
 #1018

Pirate's self-imposed deadline was one week …

Where did he say that and what exactly did he say?
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August 21, 2012, 04:32:16 PM
 #1019

From: [CLOSED] Imsaguy's PPT @ 7%

Interest payments were made electronically (redeposited) but not actually sent out.

 Shocked Roll Eyes

Was this standard operating procedure for the pass throughs?

This is another signature ponzi move. Have some context:

Quote
The regular payment of so-called dividends induces investors to bring friends, family members, or business colleagues into the scheme and to put up additional funds themselves now that they are convinced of its veracity.

The operators will also persuade you, with little effort, to "roll over" your "profits" into another investment cycle, so your actual return ends up being back on paper only.

They may decide to provide you with just "statements" showing you your profits rather than sending out cheques,
but the receipt of a cheque in the mail seems to generate more enthusiasm for participants, and it ultimately makes it back to the con at any rate.

This kind of setup relies on keeping his victims from knowing they are being cheated for as long as possible so others can be lured in.

...

Mark Fleming
Consumer Protection Lawyer

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/InPerson/MajorPerson/ponzi.htm

Squall1066, see: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme.

Up until Monday, he did whatever we wanted.  If we wanted payments, he did payments.  If we wanted withdrawals, he did withdrawals.  He never pushed us in either direction.  The stability bonus was never intended to be tied to interest payments and had no bearing.  Whoever says pirate encouraged reinvesting is just plain lying and spreading fud.  Now that he's unwinding, I'd expect the interest payments to change from the status quo, instead paying interest when he closes the account.

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
hgmichna
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August 21, 2012, 04:37:25 PM
 #1020

Up until Monday, he did whatever we wanted.  If we wanted payments, he did payments.  If we wanted withdrawals, he did withdrawals.  He never pushed us in either direction.  The stability bonus was never intended to be tied to interest payments and had no bearing.  Whoever says pirate encouraged reinvesting is just plain lying and spreading fud.  Now that he's unwinding, I'd expect the interest payments to change from the status quo, instead paying interest when he closes the account.

imsaguy spreading his typical foggy nonsense. Or can anybody here possibly make sense of that garbage?

You are either one of pirate's helpers or one of his accounts. Time to shut up, don't you think?
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