Bitcoin Forum
December 06, 2016, 02:27:31 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 107910 times)
miscreanity
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
August 02, 2012, 04:50:43 PM
 #341

miscreanity, you have more patience than I.  I give up and this is my last post to this thread.

I've almost been in tears from laughing so hard at some of the stuff posted in this thread. Gotta have fun with it!
1481034451
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481034451

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481034451
Reply with quote  #2

1481034451
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
miscreanity
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1078


View Profile
August 02, 2012, 05:01:47 PM
 #342

Now that's more like it. I'd just wonder how Pirate knew he'd be raided a month in advance. Plus, unless everyone with access to the dead man contingency were incapacitated, the funds could still be returned.
Or the wallet.dat's are seized before the contingency can be executed.

And it's a win-win for Pirate whether the contingency is prevented or successful. Either gov't seizure of funds creates animosity toward gov't, or the contingency plan returns the funds and now Pirate has a large, distributed support base with funds that can't be frozen.

Best of all...
wachtwoord
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484



View Profile WWW
August 02, 2012, 05:02:33 PM
 #343

Ok so Micon said that BTCS&T is in its final week or two. And looking at the prices of PPT bonds of GLBSE it's clear that a lot of people are withdrawing.

So if in two weeks Pirate hasn't default, is still operating or has returned all the coins, will you stop with this ponzi talk or what?

Uh, if he returns *all* the coins, it's not a Ponzi by definition, so yes.

I would cover 2-to-1 he runs within 8 weeks though. (More than Pirate rates!)

How much do you wish to wager and who would you accept as escrow?  May be we could ask senbonzakura. He has no-interest whatsoever in Pirate (against Islamic law) and would not charge a fee.

3 times my money in 8 weeks is 14.7% compounded weekly interest Smiley

Clipse
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 504


View Profile
August 02, 2012, 05:21:15 PM
 #344

Ok so Micon said that BTCS&T is in its final week or two. And looking at the prices of PPT bonds of GLBSE it's clear that a lot of people are withdrawing.

So if in two weeks Pirate hasn't default, is still operating or has returned all the coins, will you stop with this ponzi talk or what?

Uh, if he returns *all* the coins, it's not a Ponzi by definition, so yes.

I would cover 2-to-1 he runs within 8 weeks though. (More than Pirate rates!)

How much do you wish to wager and who would you accept as escrow?  May be we could ask senbonzakura. He has no-interest whatsoever in Pirate (against Islamic law) and would not charge a fee.

3 times my money in 8 weeks is 14.7% compounded weekly interest Smiley

Getting paid interest is against islamic law ? I thought getting charged interest is against that law.

Btw, someone should call all the islamic banks and tell them they wont go to allah, they all operate for profit unless they are all heathens.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

We pay miners at 130% PPS | Signup here : Bonus PPS Pool (Please read OP to understand the current process)
wachtwoord
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484



View Profile WWW
August 02, 2012, 05:33:53 PM
 #345

Usury is against all major religions. He also cannot invest because he does not know what Pirate does. It could be something against Islamic ethics.

memvola
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 896


View Profile
August 02, 2012, 05:43:56 PM
 #346

Getting paid interest is against islamic law ? I thought getting charged interest is against that law.

No, it's getting paid interest. You can be charged interest even against your own will.

Btw, someone should call all the islamic banks and tell them they wont go to allah, they all operate for profit unless they are all heathens.

What's forbidden is to get interest for loaning out money. You can invest in a business and expect a dividend. This is to protect the poor from abuse. Also, rich people have a duty to pay 1/40 of their entire fortune to the poor each year. The whole scheme would fail to make sense if you heavily scrutinize it, but the intention behind it is pretty clear IMO.

As wachtwoord said, an Islamic bank can't invest in a business if it doesn't know what it does with the money. This actually saved the Islamic banks from the last couple crises.
mc_lovin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


www.bitcointrading.com


View Profile WWW
August 02, 2012, 05:52:31 PM
 #347

Holy ponzi talk.  I hope you guys are wrong.

wachtwoord
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484



View Profile WWW
August 02, 2012, 05:59:45 PM
 #348

But lets come back to the bet. I'd really like to make this bet with Frankie  Grin

Micon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


I'm not the law, but I represent justice


View Profile WWW
August 02, 2012, 10:09:34 PM
 #349

oh I just a love a good trainwreck!



the ignorant Ponzi defenders may be loud, but you will be wrong.

What day is this week's interest payments?  this should be a block-chain lulzfest.

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
Shadow383
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336


View Profile
August 02, 2012, 10:14:12 PM
 #350

oh I just a love a good trainwreck!



the ignorant Ponzi defenders may be loud, but you will be wrong.

What day is this week's interest payments?  this should be a block-chain lulzfest.
It's always on a monday.

Also, could someone on here who has a BTCST account tell me how the interest payments work? I assume it's possible to make it auto-compound? So the 26000BTC in interest payments this week doesn't necessarily reflect the size of exposure.

I just want some vauge idea of what the market's overall exposure to BTCST is... we could see a massive price hit in other GLBSE shares and the price of bitcoin itself in the event of a collapse.
Frankie
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 206



View Profile
August 02, 2012, 11:22:16 PM
 #351

Inside information from which evil genius? The adaptive nature of the network makes that extremely unlikely.

You work for the U.S. Department of Justice.  You know that in mid August, FBI agents are going to seize all exchanged in the US, charge the operators with money laundering, arrest five of the largest dealers on SR, arrest 25 of the largest customers, and announce that the UIGEA will be applied vigorously against any US financial institution that conveys money to a bitcoin exchange.

In this hypothetical, I think it's fair to say you would want to take bitcoin loans in early August!

I agree that Pirate's rates are so exorbitant that even inside such knowledge would not assure he could cover the loans over this long time scale, so I agree that this "legitimate" scheme is unlikely.

Now that's more like it. I'd just wonder how Pirate knew he'd be raided a month in advance. Plus, unless everyone with access to the dead man contingency were incapacitated, the funds could still be returned.

Wait, what?

Not that my invented hypothetical is worth discussing, but Pirate is thought to be neither an exchange operator nor a drug dealer, right?


Uh, if he returns *all* the coins, it's not a Ponzi by definition, so yes.

I would cover 2-to-1 he runs within 8 weeks though. (More than Pirate rates!)

How much do you wish to wager and who would you accept as escrow?  May be we could ask senbonzakura. He has no-interest whatsoever in Pirate (against Islamic law) and would not charge a fee.

3 times my money in 8 weeks is 14.7% compounded weekly interest Smiley

This is obviously a gamble; while I think it's clear he's bust in the long run, during any particular chunk of time, he may be able to find more deposits. The waning passthrough enthusiasm suggests to me that the scheme's days are numbered, but I could certainly be wrong. Maybe, for example, his stunt in Vegas will convince his most loyal to pour more into it, so that it lasts several more months. That said, I think there's better than 66% chance that it falls apart in the next 8 weeks, hence the offer.

The limiting factor for me is counterparty risk. I'm just new to the community. One person I've talked to a couple of times is BCB; I'd trust him with 60 BTC. I'd have to look into other proposals.

We'd also want to hammer out an unambiguous definition of default. A lot of Ponzis unravel with lame excuses for payment delays, replacing claims with vouchers, etc. If this sort of nonsense happens on the tail end of my 8 week term, I think it'll be default, and I would like to make sure the bet is held open long enough to unambiguously show that the principle ain't getting paid back to investors.
peasant
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 265


Bitmaker


View Profile
August 03, 2012, 05:20:01 AM
 #352

What do you think of Hashkings Lending?
wachtwoord
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484



View Profile WWW
August 03, 2012, 06:57:43 AM
 #353

This is obviously a gamble; while I think it's clear he's bust in the long run, during any particular chunk of time, he may be able to find more deposits. The waning passthrough enthusiasm suggests to me that the scheme's days are numbered, but I could certainly be wrong. Maybe, for example, his stunt in Vegas will convince his most loyal to pour more into it, so that it lasts several more months. That said, I think there's better than 66% chance that it falls apart in the next 8 weeks, hence the offer.

The limiting factor for me is counterparty risk. I'm just new to the community. One person I've talked to a couple of times is BCB; I'd trust him with 60 BTC. I'd have to look into other proposals.

We'd also want to hammer out an unambiguous definition of default. A lot of Ponzis unravel with lame excuses for payment delays, replacing claims with vouchers, etc. If this sort of nonsense happens on the tail end of my 8 week term, I think it'll be default, and I would like to make sure the bet is held open long enough to unambiguously show that the principle ain't getting paid back to investors.

I know two people that would likely escrow without a fee (I have  ask of course). Senbonzakura (read: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=21732.0 if you do you'll agree this is not a guy who steals) and PatrickHarnett (I didn't mention him because he run a pass through and giving the nature of this thread you have an issue with those Wink)

I ave no idea who BCB is.

With regard to rules, I think we can just use those of the Pirate Vandroiy bet (in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91661.0).

Concerning your comment of trusting 60 BTC with someone I figure the bet would be my 30 BTC vs your 60 BTC correct?

Frankie
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 206



View Profile
August 03, 2012, 01:38:36 PM
 #354

Yes, that would be the size of the bet. I don't care so much about the fee as trust I have in the counterparty. No, Patrick is out. Will look into Senbon.
hgmichna
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 598



View Profile
August 03, 2012, 01:56:05 PM
 #355

This is obviously a gamble; while I think it's clear he's bust in the long run, during any particular chunk of time, he may be able to find more deposits. The waning passthrough enthusiasm suggests to me that the scheme's days are numbered, but I could certainly be wrong. Maybe, for example, his stunt in Vegas will convince his most loyal to pour more into it, so that it lasts several more months. That said, I think there's better than 66% chance that it falls apart in the next 8 weeks, hence the offer.

Exactly my thoughts too, by the way. I arrive at similar figures.

A large surprise investor could extend the scheme, if pirateat40 is greedy enough to hope for yet another one. But, failing that, I'm actually not sure why he hasn't called game over already. These weekly payouts certainly bite into his stash, and, as a rough, statistical guess, they are growing exponentially.
Shadow383
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336


View Profile
August 03, 2012, 02:09:30 PM
 #356

Yes, that would be the size of the bet. I don't care so much about the fee as trust I have in the counterparty. No, Patrick is out. Will look into Senbon.
To clarify, Patrick's primary business is lending out BTC payday loans at rates of a few percent per week, and investing in mining securities (which typically pay 1-2 percent per week).
He pays 1% on deposits and if you watch the lending subforum he is heavily involved in making BTC loans - in fact his scheme is one of the places I store BTC, and I've followed it through the blockchain and seen the rough volume of those loans. That scheme doesn't have any direct BTCST exposure - of course it is vulnerable to the risks of a major market crash in the event of a BTCST default (because it has been profitable for investors to borrow from him to buy into PPTs for some time now, and recently-burned investors would likely crash the value of other BTC securities in the short-run).

The BTCST passthrough is a very different part of the business and not particularly well used, as he only pays 5% versus the 6.9% on bitcoinmax.

If you're interested, I've started trying to uncover how large the exposure in the marketplace is to BTCST:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=98225.0

Trouble is it's really all smoke and mirrors, it's very difficult to get proper stats from many of those involved...
wachtwoord
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484



View Profile WWW
August 03, 2012, 04:28:54 PM
 #357

Shadow I agree and consider Patrick to be very trustworthy myself. However he does run breakthroughs (both directly and through PTT) so I figured Frankie would not approve Smiley

And Frankie: if you really don't mind about fees there are more possibilities (for example nanotube, the escrow of the Pirate -  Vandroiy  bet) but I would not want to pay the fees myself. I'm sure you'll find Shen trustworthy, I'm just not sure if he'd like to get involved (not that there is anything shady about this bet).

imsaguy
General failure and former
VIP
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 574

Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.


View Profile WWW
August 03, 2012, 06:13:30 PM
 #358

But, failing that, I'm actually not sure why he hasn't called game over already. These weekly payouts certainly bite into his stash, and, as a rough, statistical guess, they are growing exponentially.

Because maybe, just maybe, he's legit?

Coming Soon!™ © imsaguy 2011-2013, All rights reserved.

EIEIO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.0

Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
Payment Address: http://btc.to/5r6
Raoul Duke
aka psy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442



View Profile
August 03, 2012, 06:17:02 PM
 #359

But, failing that, I'm actually not sure why he hasn't called game over already. These weekly payouts certainly bite into his stash, and, as a rough, statistical guess, they are growing exponentially.

Because maybe, just maybe, he's legit?

Naaaahhhhh... can't be!

Micon
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218


I'm not the law, but I represent justice


View Profile WWW
August 05, 2012, 12:31:08 AM
 #360

But, failing that, I'm actually not sure why he hasn't called game over already. These weekly payouts certainly bite into his stash, and, as a rough, statistical guess, they are growing exponentially.

Because maybe, just maybe, he's legit?

nope.  simple maths.  When Pirate decides new investment this week < interest payouts, it's game over.  I agree that timing this ponzi tough because of the culture of Ponzi-acceptance on this board, hell Pirate might just find another 3000 BTC worth of you guys this week and has been faking the blockchain interest payments the whole time to look 2x or 5x or 10x bigger than he is & was, and for all we know it could go on another 7 or 8 weeks.  Seems highly unlikely after looking at some of the interest number going parabolic, which should be about when it goes boom.

Chairman SwCPoker.eu Bitcoin Poker 2.0 |  Pro Poker Player  |  blog & podcas DonkDown.com | @BryanMicon | 2015- PGP Key
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 [18] 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!