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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 108019 times)
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August 14, 2012, 12:20:54 AM
 #681

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

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August 14, 2012, 12:44:31 AM
 #682

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

Dont you see the MASSIVE irony in that statement of yours? Those earnings can be made more consistently by a McDonalds manager, what makes you an expert ? Bahahaha.

Perhaps you should go read up on the word, accusation. These are all facts that I post, made available by forums and by yourself in your signature of all places. Are you calling those lousy yearly tournament earnings all lies and not factual ? It is well known that you are a huge losing cash game player and the other sharkscope overall SNG stats shows that you are a huge SNG losing player over the last years aswell.

Where do you make money to survive, is scamming with poker material really that lucrative ?

I will keep pointing out the obvious, you are nothing but a self-bloated self-proclaimed wannabe expert. How is that Winning slots book coming along ?

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August 14, 2012, 12:51:52 AM
 #683

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

Dont you see the MASSIVE irony in that statement of yours? Those earnings can be made more consistently by a McDonalds manager, what makes you an expert ? Bahahaha.

Perhaps you should go read up on the word, accusation. These are all facts that I post, made available by forums and by yourself in your signature of all places. Are you calling those lousy yearly tournament earnings all lies and not factual ? It is well known that you are a huge losing cash game player and the other sharkscope overall SNG stats shows that you are a huge SNG losing player over the last years aswell.

Where do you make money to survive, is scamming with poker material really that lucrative ?

I will keep pointing out the obvious, you are nothing but a self-bloated self-proclaimed wannabe expert. How is that Winning slots book coming along ?

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...
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August 14, 2012, 12:56:37 AM
 #684

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

Dont you see the MASSIVE irony in that statement of yours? Those earnings can be made more consistently by a McDonalds manager, what makes you an expert ? Bahahaha.

Perhaps you should go read up on the word, accusation. These are all facts that I post, made available by forums and by yourself in your signature of all places. Are you calling those lousy yearly tournament earnings all lies and not factual ? It is well known that you are a huge losing cash game player and the other sharkscope overall SNG stats shows that you are a huge SNG losing player over the last years aswell.

Where do you make money to survive, is scamming with poker material really that lucrative ?

I will keep pointing out the obvious, you are nothing but a self-bloated self-proclaimed wannabe expert. How is that Winning slots book coming along ?

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Perhaps a mod can split the topic off into its own thread ? Hit the "report to moderator" button.

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August 14, 2012, 01:06:09 AM
 #685

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Its a topic about a guy claiming a bunch of other people are scammers.  Its only fair to discuss the person doing the finger pointing.

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August 14, 2012, 01:09:39 AM
 #686

Cute that you added your sitepro stats, from 2007 to 2012 you earned the following per year before deducting any backing funds, this comes in most places far less than any minimum wage and you wonder why people in the poker community laugh at you calling yourself a pro.

2012   $ 32,832   $ 32,832 -> After backer fees this may aswell read $0.
2011   $ 65,596   $ 65,596 -> You cant afford slots with this yearly income so who did you scam to roll you for slot mastery ?
2010   $ 34,066   $ 34,066 -> After backer fees this is likely closer to $0 aswell, true champ.
2009   $ 77,287   $ 77,287 -> Great year, still far below any average educated job, must have gone on a diet this year.
2008   $ 30,419   $ 30,419 -> Not sure how you could afford your own home with this yearly income before taxes.
2007   $ 6,021   $ 6,021 -> deduct backer fees, I bet you ate sand this whole year, Im sure you dont want to be back in 2007.

Like I said before you may have been a decent player up till 2006 but I would guess mostly a lucky donk when competition was as easy as pie but since then it clearly shows you are anything but a surviving poker player.

If I cared more I would have traced down to the $0 on your tournament winnings. No need for me to even look at your sng winnings, thats all in the minus in recent years.

seriously, willing to debate you endlessly on a topic I am an expert in and you are making wild and odd accusations.  Wrong thread though.  This 1 is about massive Ponzi schemes

Dont you see the MASSIVE irony in that statement of yours? Those earnings can be made more consistently by a McDonalds manager, what makes you an expert ? Bahahaha.

Perhaps you should go read up on the word, accusation. These are all facts that I post, made available by forums and by yourself in your signature of all places. Are you calling those lousy yearly tournament earnings all lies and not factual ? It is well known that you are a huge losing cash game player and the other sharkscope overall SNG stats shows that you are a huge SNG losing player over the last years aswell.

Where do you make money to survive, is scamming with poker material really that lucrative ?

I will keep pointing out the obvious, you are nothing but a self-bloated self-proclaimed wannabe expert. How is that Winning slots book coming along ?

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

No, its about experts making wild and odd accusations

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August 14, 2012, 01:14:18 AM
 #687

now the real Q's

did Pirate pay everyone today?  Was Bitcoinmax and the other ponzi affiliates duped again into re-investing all?  did new whales come in this week?  

or is this this week it goes boom?

Back on topic (so to speak)

Yes, as expected he paid out interest this week.

Also I have updated my bet thread here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97094.msg1097294#msg1097294
Just saying, you should probably link to a transaction in the blockchain for that original 10k BTC deposit, or unlock the thread for a bit.

did Pirate pay everyone today?  

a couple i glanced at (vescudero, nckrazze) paid interest early.  if others did the same, then that's a tell.  maybe that was done with the intent to boost confidence as if they are paying early, definitely can't be in trouble!   or, maybe the affiliates that have a high reinvestment rate got paid out first because the reinvested funds were needed to then pay others which have higher redemptions?

I wasn't aware Victor Escudero had any pirate exposure? You're referring to his 1.5% deposits right?

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Its a topic about a guy claiming a bunch of other people are scammers.  Its only fair to discuss the person doing the finger pointing.
Wouldn't it just be easier for people to show they're not scammers?
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August 14, 2012, 01:47:29 AM
 #688

It's pretty hilarious watching the Pirate-folk having their little meltdown and pulling out random poker statistics that have nothing to do with anything.

It will be especially funny seeing which ones will disappear after Pirate defaults. Greed is one helluva drug!
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August 14, 2012, 01:55:30 AM
 #689

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Its a topic about a guy claiming a bunch of other people are scammers.  Its only fair to discuss the person doing the finger pointing.
Wouldn't it just be easier for people to show they're not scammers?
Against what proof?
As it stands there is nothing to defend against but baseless claims that don't need any defending against, perhaps I missed some proof amongst the 'ponzi ponzi ponzi' chants, because I've seen none backing up your accusations, so then, with such a lack of proof (And indeed, victims) i think "people" have shown they are not scammers.

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August 14, 2012, 02:05:15 AM
 #690

Wouldn't it just be easier for people to show they're not scammers?

Not when the people that need to be convinced don't really want to be convinced. 

In addition, sometimes the best way to prove you aren't a scam is to keep doing business and paying everyone as agreed.

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August 14, 2012, 02:17:00 AM
 #691

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Its a topic about a guy claiming a bunch of other people are scammers.  Its only fair to discuss the person doing the finger pointing.
Wouldn't it just be easier for people to show they're not scammers?
Against what proof?
As it stands there is nothing to defend against but baseless claims that don't need any defending against, perhaps I missed some proof amongst the 'ponzi ponzi ponzi' chants, because I've seen none backing up your accusations, so then, with such a lack of proof (And indeed, victims) i think "people" have shown they are not scammers.

What about the claim of "there is no evidence that your business has the required income to pay its incredible interest bill without eroding principle balances"?

Surely it's fairly easy in a currency in which all transactions are on public record in the blockchain to show that you're doing a substantial amount of business?

I mean, given the weekly interest bill, you'd expect BTCST to be doing at least 150k BTC per week in trades even if they were dealing in something with a very high profit margin. It shouldn't be difficult to show.
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August 14, 2012, 02:18:55 AM
 #692

What about the claim of "there is no evidence that your business has the required income to pay its incredible interest bill without eroding principle balances"?

Surely it's fairly easy in a currency in which all transactions are on public record in the blockchain to show that you're doing a substantial amount of business?

I mean, given the weekly interest bill, you'd expect BTCST to be doing at least 150k BTC per week in trades even if they were dealing in something with a very high profit margin. It shouldn't be difficult to show.

Unless of course they are futures contracts and don't actually require the  coins to move.  How about you ask mtgox to show all of their btc transfers in the block chain... oh wait, you can't because some of it is internal/on paper.

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August 14, 2012, 02:20:55 AM
 #693

I didn't realise this topic was about poker...

Its a topic about a guy claiming a bunch of other people are scammers.  Its only fair to discuss the person doing the finger pointing.
Wouldn't it just be easier for people to show they're not scammers?
Against what proof?
As it stands there is nothing to defend against but baseless claims that don't need any defending against, perhaps I missed some proof amongst the 'ponzi ponzi ponzi' chants, because I've seen none backing up your accusations, so then, with such a lack of proof (And indeed, victims) i think "people" have shown they are not scammers.

What about the claim of "there is no evidence that your business has the required income to pay its incredible interest bill without eroding principle balances"?

Surely it's fairly easy in a currency in which all transactions are on public record in the blockchain to show that you're doing a substantial amount of business?

I mean, given the weekly interest bill, you'd expect BTCST to be doing at least 150k BTC per week in trades even if they were dealing in something with a very high profit margin. It shouldn't be difficult to show.
A lack of evidence is evidence of nothing, so, you have nothing but baseless claims, again please come up with something that isn't 1) "You don't know therefore ponzi" or 2) "7% therefore ponzi", there were some people a while ago trying to prove that pirate never moved any of the coins, I'm guessing they failed at that... Surely with all of your investigations and 36 pages of discussion you have SOMETHING right?

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August 14, 2012, 02:21:51 AM
 #694

A lack of evidence is evidence of nothing, so, you have nothing but baseless claims, again please come up with something that isn't 1) "You don't know therefore ponzi" or 2) "7% therefore ponzi", there were some people a while ago trying to prove that pirate never moved any of the coins, I'm guessing they failed at that... Surely with all of your investigations and 36 pages of discussion you have SOMETHING right?

"ponzi ponzi ponzi"

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August 14, 2012, 02:51:11 AM
 #695

What about the claim of "there is no evidence that your business has the required income to pay its incredible interest bill without eroding principle balances"?

Surely it's fairly easy in a currency in which all transactions are on public record in the blockchain to show that you're doing a substantial amount of business?

I mean, given the weekly interest bill, you'd expect BTCST to be doing at least 150k BTC per week in trades even if they were dealing in something with a very high profit margin. It shouldn't be difficult to show.

Unless of course they are futures contracts and don't actually require the  coins to move.  How about you ask mtgox to show all of their btc transfers in the block chain... oh wait, you can't because some of it is internal/on paper.
For those of us who aren't experts in the futures trading market, could you please explain how your theory might work? I am willing to be open-minded about this, so I'm all ears.

Also, we can easily check the BTC side of MtGox without them even assisting us, so the comparison isn't even close to valid. Because the BTC used by Pirate can move back and forth between USD and BTC, we cannot check those numbers without his assistance.

Wouldn't it just be easier for people to show they're not scammers?
Against what proof?
As it stands there is nothing to defend against but baseless claims that don't need any defending against, perhaps I missed some proof amongst the 'ponzi ponzi ponzi' chants, because I've seen none backing up your accusations, so then, with such a lack of proof (And indeed, victims) i think "people" have shown they are not scammers.

What about the claim of "there is no evidence that your business has the required income to pay its incredible interest bill without eroding principle balances"?

Surely it's fairly easy in a currency in which all transactions are on public record in the blockchain to show that you're doing a substantial amount of business?

I mean, given the weekly interest bill, you'd expect BTCST to be doing at least 150k BTC per week in trades even if they were dealing in something with a very high profit margin. It shouldn't be difficult to show.
A lack of evidence is evidence of nothing, so, you have nothing but baseless claims, again please come up with something that isn't 1) "You don't know therefore ponzi" or 2) "7% therefore ponzi", there were some people a while ago trying to prove that pirate never moved any of the coins, I'm guessing they failed at that... Surely with all of your investigations and 36 pages of discussion you have SOMETHING right?
On the contrary, when it comes to Ponzis, a lack of evidence of anything is evidence of a Ponzi. It's also extremely easy to disprove if it's not a ponzi. As it is, there is no evidence that a business side of BS&T even exists. If I'm wrong about this, let me know.

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August 14, 2012, 02:54:21 AM
 #696

In 36 pages they found one interesting thing


Quote
they promised investors extraordinary returns on short term, high interest loans to desperate companies.

Instead, prosecutors say, they paid off their own debts.

http://www.wzzm13.com/rss/article/221379/14/Man-sentenced-for-stealing-800000-in-ponzi-scheme

the best part ...  they named it the "atlas fund".

six years in prison.  full restitution plus interest.

this was for a ponzi of less than $1 million

sure hope that anyone involved whatsoever in promoting or operating something that ultimately ends up being a ponzi are thinking through the consequences.

or not.  anonymous forum accounts and privacy-enabled domain registrations are easy to abandon.  

with a digital currency that not only can be used anonymously but is non-reversible as well, looks like you have no risks.

carry on.
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August 14, 2012, 03:05:46 AM
 #697

For those of us who aren't experts in the futures trading market, could you please explain how your theory might work? I am willing to be open-minded about this, so I'm all ears.

Also, we can easily check the BTC side of MtGox without them even assisting us, so the comparison isn't even close to valid. Because the BTC used by Pirate can move back and forth between USD and BTC, we cannot check those numbers without his assistance.

With Gox, I simply was trying to illustrate that coins can change hands without every actually being published in a public record.  To assert that the blockchain is the end all, be all, to prove a transaction.. well, its just wrong.

Now on to futures:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futures_contract, "In finance, a futures contract is a standardized contract between two parties to buy or sell a specified asset of standardized quantity and quality for a price agreed today (the futures price or strike price) with delivery and payment occurring at a specified future date, the delivery date."

Are you familiar with shorting a stock or buying a stock on margin?

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August 14, 2012, 03:08:17 AM
 #698

Futures are a zero sum game.  Who is losing massive amounts of BTC to pirate?

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August 14, 2012, 03:33:21 AM
 #699

Futures are a zero sum game.  Who is losing massive amounts of BTC to pirate?
No one.  The loss/gain is happening on the USD / BTC interface.  BTC is gaining relative to USD (and all the other ponzi currencies).  Those long BTC win (almost everyone here), those long USD (anyone here, no, most of the rest of the world, yes) lose.

In fact if you assume for the sake of an example that BS&T has 500,000 BTC then the holding cost is 5,000 BTC per day.  This means that, assuming it is legit, BS&T has to purchase an average of 5,000 BTC more per day than it sells.  This pushes up the price for everyone here - whether you invest with BS&T or not.
I asked who was losing in the zero sum game of futures contracts and you reply "No one" Huh

In your example (a general case, not necessarily futures related) you then mention pirate buying 5000 BTC more than he sells (and losing 0 USD on average).  What group of people is selling 5000 BTC per day making 0 USD on average?

Also, increases in BTC value probably hurt pirate, as when he trades between BTC and USD, he will at some times hold some USD, but he has to pay interest in 100% BTC. Pirate himself has claimed that sharp increases in the BTC/USD price could hurt his business.

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August 14, 2012, 03:47:54 AM
 #700

Also, increases in BTC value probably hurt pirate, as when he trades between BTC and USD, he will at some times hold some USD, but he has to pay interest in 100% BTC. Pirate himself has claimed that sharp increases in the BTC/USD price could hurt his business.

Are you sick?  you're actually acknowledging something pirate said makes sense? You better go see the doctor or else Micon might label you a participant in the ponzi.

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Shades Minoco Collection Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989
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