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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 107889 times)
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August 15, 2012, 04:12:18 PM
 #841

With careful adjustments to the interest rate he might even be able to win his bet against Vandroiy, while still being a ponzi scammer.

I don't think that is possible. His problem is that every lowering of his interest rates makes his scam less attractive. If he cut down the interest to rates that are manageable over more than a year, most of his "investors" would drop out and ask for their money back, plus the already insane interest.

Vandroiy cannot lose his bet (if he has not already won it because pirateat40 violated the 30 day pre-announcement of rate change clause). Conversely, pirateat40 never even thought of winning the bet. For him it was only a public relations maneuver that went wrong, because he did not believe anybody would take the bet with any significant amount of money.

Remember how pirateat40 once offered Vandroiy to let him out of the bet? That had a 1% chance of succeeding (actually a 0% chance, but pirateat40 must have believed it had a chance). The pirate would never have done that if he had been sure to win the bet.
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August 15, 2012, 04:14:07 PM
 #842

To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) :  do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan.

I have already.  There are similarities to a ponzi, but similarities aren't enough to determine one way or another.  I've never denied it isn't possible for him to be a ponzi, but no where have you acknowledged that its possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit. I believe its that lack of acknowledgment that shows your ignorance.  Just because you've been scammed in the past doesn't make you an expert in scams and/or economics.

This is my point since the first time I posted in this rediculous thread, You are turning assumptions and similarities into your own Facts. I found that extremely narrow minded and silly. Next the mere fact that it is you, Bryan Micon, leading this witch hunt that simply turned this thread into a turdball considering your own ethics over the years which gives you ZERO credibility to even start such a thread.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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August 15, 2012, 04:16:37 PM
 #843


That is either "impossible" or "totally cool" - depending on your point of view
Discuss/Flame on!

3000%+ APR debt is impossible to be legit.  BurtW - again I beg you not to listen to me, but to ask any CPA / accountant / MBA / Lawyer / Doctor / anyone with a retirement account / anyone that is solvent and responsible over the age of 60 - just point them here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and ask them if there is any possibility of the program being legitimate.  

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August 15, 2012, 04:16:49 PM
 #844

With careful adjustments to the interest rate he might even be able to win his bet against Vandroiy, while still being a ponzi scammer.

I don't think that is possible. His problem is that every lowering of his interest rates makes his scam less attractive. If he cut down the interest to rates that are manageable over more than a year, most of his "investors" would drop out and ask for their money back, plus the already insane interest.

Vandroiy cannot lose his bet (if he has not already won it because pirateat40 violated the 30 day pre-announcement of rate change clause). Conversely, pirateat40 never even thought of winning the bet. For him it was only a public relations maneuver that went wrong, because he did not believe anybody would take the bet with any significant amount of money.

Remember how pirateat40 once offered Vandroiy to let him out of the bet? That had a 1% chance of succeeding (actually a 0% chance, but pirateat40 must have believed it had a chance). The pirate would never have done that if he had been sure to win the bet.

Gah Gah Goo Goo, this forum should really enforce an age restriction test.

They complain his rates are too high.  He lowers them.  They complain because lowering rates is a sign of things coming apart.  There really is no winning outside of shutting the business down.  I can't help but to wonder if they aren't just all shills for the same person who is actually competing with pirate for business outside of this forum.

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August 15, 2012, 04:19:53 PM
 #845


That is either "impossible" or "totally cool" - depending on your point of view
Discuss/Flame on!

3000%+ APR debt is impossible to be legit.  BurtW - again I beg you not to listen to me, but to ask any CPA / accountant / MBA / Lawyer / Doctor / anyone with a retirement account / anyone that is solvent and responsible over the age of 60 - just point them here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and ask them if there is any possibility of the program being legitimate.  

Again you suck fancy words out of your thumb, where is the 3000%+ APR debt ? You make it sound like he loans from investors for a year then repay them which is absurd and just plain fking stupid. Pirate only carry debt from day to day and if he ends it tomorrow he has one day of debt to clear.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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August 15, 2012, 04:21:09 PM
 #846

With careful adjustments to the interest rate he might even be able to win his bet against Vandroiy, while still being a ponzi scammer.

I don't think that is possible. His problem is that every lowering of his interest rates makes his scam less attractive. If he cut down the interest to rates that are manageable over more than a year, most of his "investors" would drop out and ask for their money back, plus the already insane interest.

Vandroiy cannot lose his bet (if he has not already won it because pirateat40 violated the 30 day pre-announcement of rate change clause). Conversely, pirateat40 never even thought of winning the bet. For him it was only a public relations maneuver that went wrong, because he did not believe anybody would take the bet with any significant amount of money.

Remember how pirateat40 once offered Vandroiy to let him out of the bet? That had a 1% chance of succeeding (actually a 0% chance, but pirateat40 must have believed it had a chance). The pirate would never have done that if he had been sure to win the bet.

Gah Gah Goo Goo, this forum should really enforce an age restriction test.

They complain his rates are too high.  He lowers them.  They complain because lowering rates is a sign of things coming apart.  There really is no winning outside of shutting the business down.  I can't help but to wonder if they aren't just all shills for the same person who is actually competing with pirate for business outside of this forum.

Cant speak for the others but Micon is hardly a shill. Hes just an attention seeking whore who is looking for fresh love after his divorce.

Its easy to figure out when you look at his numerous poker vids where he is called out for being a complete shitbag.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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August 15, 2012, 04:22:48 PM
 #847

To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) :  do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan.

I have already.  There are similarities to a ponzi, but similarities aren't enough to determine one way or another.  I've never denied it isn't possible for him to be a ponzi, but no where have you acknowledged that its possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit. I believe its that lack of acknowledgment that shows your ignorance.  Just because you've been scammed in the past doesn't make you an expert in scams and/or economics.

1)  I fully acknowledge that it is possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit

2)  that being said, the BCST thread stats that you are a debt holder earning 7% weekly.  You do not own any equity in the business.  This amounts to 3000%+ APR, which in the history of business has never been a sustainable debt % and literally 100% of the time has always been a scam.  Facebook & Microsoft equity holders would have realized gains even higher than 3000% - but remember those were world-shaping products, that would never, ever take on 3000%+ APR debt.  It is also quite erroneous to equate this business plan:

Q: What are my coins used for?
A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following:
Market Arbitrage
Private Loans To Network Members
Never Criminal/Illegal Related

Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates?
A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do.  

with the aforementioned companies.

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August 15, 2012, 04:23:01 PM
 #848

If a company like google was going to get into bitcoin they would need to secure a lot of coins and could afford to pay extra to avoid messing with the price too much.  They wouldnt want to signal their entrance into the market.

Where else are they going to go but pirate ?



Oh, I missed this one. This is a gem.

If Google (or some other big business) would want to secure a lot of BTC, I think they would first contact MtGox and try to negotiate some kind of a deal. Or, just set up a team to manage their bitcoin holdings and do the buying themselves, otc or exchanges. Or just f'in mine the stuff.

But, there's no way someone can buy a significant portion of a limited resource without moving the price up, Pirate or not. Supply and demand.
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August 15, 2012, 04:26:30 PM
 #849

If a company like google was going to get into bitcoin they would need to secure a lot of coins and could afford to pay extra to avoid messing with the price too much.  They wouldnt want to signal their entrance into the market.

Where else are they going to go but pirate ?



Oh, I missed this one. This is a gem.

If Google (or some other big business) would want to secure a lot of BTC, I think they would first contact MtGox and try to negotiate some kind of a deal. Or, just set up a team to manage their bitcoin holdings and do the buying themselves, otc or exchanges. Or just f'in mine the stuff.

But, there's no way someone can buy a significant portion of a limited resource without moving the price up, Pirate or not. Supply and demand.

LOL

Yes they will contact MTGOX who doesnt own any of the coins traded on the market and then they would ask MTGOX to enforce a market price, right ? Do you understand what MTGOX is and what MTGOX does ?

Please sir stop spewing stupid on this forum.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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August 15, 2012, 04:28:24 PM
 #850


That is either "impossible" or "totally cool" - depending on your point of view
Discuss/Flame on!

3000%+ APR debt is impossible to be legit.  BurtW - again I beg you not to listen to me, but to ask any CPA / accountant / MBA / Lawyer / Doctor / anyone with a retirement account / anyone that is solvent and responsible over the age of 60 - just point them here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and ask them if there is any possibility of the program being legitimate.  

Again you suck fancy words out of your thumb, where is the 3000%+ APR debt ? You make it sound like he loans from investors for a year then repay them which is absurd and just plain fking stupid. Pirate only carry debt from day to day and if he ends it tomorrow he has one day of debt to clear.

Pirate does not have anywhere close to the principle he would owe if he were to try and pay everyone back.  Each week principle from all investors is depleted to pay the interest.  He will also offer bonuses to "leave the coins in" so he only must display to you a number on a screen as proof he is holding your money, not actually send the coins (deep thought: actually sending the coins just makes a different number in a different system on a different part of your screen.  Think about seeing actual coins in your wallet vs. a number on the BCST website - which one makes you nervous and which one do you fully trust? )

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August 15, 2012, 04:29:48 PM
 #851

If a company like google was going to get into bitcoin they would need to secure a lot of coins and could afford to pay extra to avoid messing with the price too much.  They wouldnt want to signal their entrance into the market.

Where else are they going to go but pirate ?



Oh, I missed this one. This is a gem.

If Google (or some other big business) would want to secure a lot of BTC, I think they would first contact MtGox and try to negotiate some kind of a deal. Or, just set up a team to manage their bitcoin holdings and do the buying themselves, otc or exchanges. Or just f'in mine the stuff.

But, there's no way someone can buy a significant portion of a limited resource without moving the price up, Pirate or not. Supply and demand.

It is laughable to see what the FUDdettes will say to try and convince just 1 more mark to invest in what could be the bitcoin-acquiring arm of the Google corporation.

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August 15, 2012, 05:30:08 PM
 #852

If a company like google was going to get into bitcoin they would need to secure a lot of coins and could afford to pay extra to avoid messing with the price too much.  They wouldnt want to signal their entrance into the market.

Where else are they going to go but pirate ?



Oh, I missed this one. This is a gem.

If Google (or some other big business) would want to secure a lot of BTC, I think they would first contact MtGox and try to negotiate some kind of a deal. Or, just set up a team to manage their bitcoin holdings and do the buying themselves, otc or exchanges. Or just f'in mine the stuff.

But, there's no way someone can buy a significant portion of a limited resource without moving the price up, Pirate or not. Supply and demand.

FUD

you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

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August 15, 2012, 05:37:48 PM
 #853


That is either "impossible" or "totally cool" - depending on your point of view
Discuss/Flame on!

3000%+ APR debt is impossible to be legit.  BurtW - again I beg you not to listen to me, but to ask any CPA / accountant / MBA / Lawyer / Doctor / anyone with a retirement account / anyone that is solvent and responsible over the age of 60 - just point them here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0  and ask them if there is any possibility of the program being legitimate.  

Again you suck fancy words out of your thumb, where is the 3000%+ APR debt ? You make it sound like he loans from investors for a year then repay them which is absurd and just plain fking stupid. Pirate only carry debt from day to day and if he ends it tomorrow he has one day of debt to clear.

Pirate does not have anywhere close to the principle he would owe if he were to try and pay everyone back.  Each week principle from all investors is depleted to pay the interest.  He will also offer bonuses to "leave the coins in" so he only must display to you a number on a screen as proof he is holding your money, not actually send the coins (deep thought: actually sending the coins just makes a different number in a different system on a different part of your screen.  Think about seeing actual coins in your wallet vs. a number on the BCST website - which one makes you nervous and which one do you fully trust? )

More facts, less guessing.

Care to tell us how you know what Pirate have on his name ? Are you a close business partner who knows his full financials ?

Oh wait, you are just full of shit as usual.

...In the land of the stale, the man with one share is king... >> Clipse

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August 15, 2012, 06:16:01 PM
 #854

I am convinced that pirate holds enough BTC and USD to move the market significantly. I am not convinced that this can be a source of any more than a marginal amount of revenue. You take losses when you move the market, and even if the gains could exceed the losses (which they almost never do), you have to share them with everyone else trading.

The volume at the margin moves faster than the bulk of holdings. A garden hose can move more water than a 4" pipe if there's enough of a pressure difference between the two.

In this manner, small profits can build quickly. It's like the tradeoff between higher IC parallelism vs. clockspeed - either a lot of simple instructions at a high rate, or more complex instructions at a slower speed.

That leaves the issue of a buffer. Even with the ability to move the market, there's still a potential for reduced supply or complete stoppage of the flow. In that situation, guarding against complete failure can be accomplished by having a steady, alternate source of flow. It may not be able to supply the volume of the main operation, but it can pick up some slack.

With the latest rate decrease, the supplemental supply apparently hasn't been able to compensate enough. The other explanation is that Ponzi investment is dwindling. I've suggested that if Pirate were running a Bitcoin-only Ponzi, it would've failed nearly three months ago - just prior to the price level increasing from $5.

If a company like google was going to get into bitcoin they would need to secure a lot of coins and could afford to pay extra to avoid messing with the price too much.  They wouldnt want to signal their entrance into the market.

Where else are they going to go but pirate ?
Oh, I missed this one. This is a gem.

If Google (or some other big business) would want to secure a lot of BTC, I think they would first contact MtGox and try to negotiate some kind of a deal. Or, just set up a team to manage their bitcoin holdings and do the buying themselves, otc or exchanges. Or just f'in mine the stuff.

But, there's no way someone can buy a significant portion of a limited resource without moving the price up, Pirate or not. Supply and demand.

The purpose of a business acquiring coins is not the same as an individual. Use is the critical factor, not accumulation. In other words: flow trumps stock. The purchased coins would rapidly reenter the market after being made use of.

Pirate does not have anywhere close to the principle he would owe if he were to try and pay everyone back.

You must be Pirate if you have access to the financial information.

Hey everyone - Micon is Pirate! Tear him to shreds!
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August 15, 2012, 06:39:12 PM
 #855


The volume at the margin moves faster than the bulk of holdings. A garden hose can move more water than a 4" pipe if there's enough of a pressure difference between the two.

[...]

Even with the ability to move the market, there's still a potential for reduced supply or complete stoppage of the flow. In that situation, guarding against complete failure can be accomplished by having a steady, alternate source of flow. It may not be able to supply the volume of the main operation, but it can pick up some slack.


So what you're saying is...

Pirate's ponzi is like a series of tubes!



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August 15, 2012, 07:42:19 PM
 #856

Oh oh...

Made it into the online media:

The Bernie Madoffs of Bitcoin?
 - http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/15/3243200/bitcoin-ponzi-schemes-savings-and-trust


By Adrienne Jeffries.

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August 15, 2012, 08:14:43 PM
 #857

Oh oh...

Made it into the online media:

The Bernie Madoffs of Bitcoin?
 - http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/15/3243200/bitcoin-ponzi-schemes-savings-and-trust


By Adrienne Jeffries.


This is an AWESOME article. Expect at least 20 new ~10k USD players from this one.

I'm selling great Minion Games like The Manhattan Project, Kingdom of Solomon and Venture Forth at 4% off retail starting June 2012. PM me or go to my thread in the Marketplace if you're interested.

For Settlers/Dominion/Carcassone etc., I do email gift cards on Amazon for a 5% fee. PM if you're interested.
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August 15, 2012, 08:29:44 PM
 #858

And a while back, I outlined a theory that is extremely plausible. So much so, that maged is researching it now.
I've thought over the futures idea, and am now concluding, without further information, that it is not likely. My reasoning is that a futures market first evolves from the fundamentals and speculation comes into play to add liquidity later.

The fundamental groups are:
1) Miners
2) Businesses

Miners have a strong incentive to use a futures market because it would allow them to lock in the price of bitcoins they haven't mined yet. I highly suspect that a futures market will evolve to be strong in bitcoin in the future because of this. However, most of the miners who would use futures are members of this forum, so we would have heard something about this. It's a shame that Pirate said that GPUMAX wasn't involved in BS&T, because that would have been more interesting to consider.

Businesses would use a futures market if a lot of escrow or other delayed delivery of bitcoins were taking place, but we all know that isn't the case.

Now, it's true that most of any market is speculation. However, no market can be (almost) completely speculation, since speculation is a zero-sum game.

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August 15, 2012, 08:31:34 PM
 #859

Oh oh...

Made it into the online media:

The Bernie Madoffs of Bitcoin?
 - http://www.theverge.com/2012/8/15/3243200/bitcoin-ponzi-schemes-savings-and-trust


By Adrienne Jeffries.


This is an AWESOME article. Expect at least 20 new ~10k USD players from this one.

Damn. $10k USD! That's almost as much as what Micon earns on an entire year playing poker as a pro!

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August 15, 2012, 08:50:49 PM
 #860

I've suggested that if Pirate were running a Bitcoin-only Ponzi, it would've failed nearly three months ago - just prior to the price level increasing from $5.
Why would you think that? I'm genuinely interested in your analysis.

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