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Author Topic: Bryan Micon's List of BTC Ponzi Schemes that should not be listed as "Lending"  (Read 107872 times)
Raoul Duke
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August 10, 2012, 09:15:52 PM
 #541

He's penalizing deposits as well as withdrawals.  How many times do I have to say this before you actually acknowledge it?
You can say it all you want, because the unofficial audit team has irrefutable proof that this is absolutely not the case. For example, despite growing over 10% per week, BitcoinMax is still making 7.7% per week in interest.

Where is that irrefutable proof?
Didn't you start researching 2 months ago or around that time? Still no conclusion?

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gene
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August 10, 2012, 09:19:09 PM
 #542

Total ponzi. Nothing new around here... scam central. Expect more charlatans; marks (inexperienced kids?) reliably flock to bitcoin.

A simple truism: the burden of proof lies on those making incredible statements which contradict all experience. The returns promised require extraordinary explanation.

No explanation is provided. End of story. One can only conclude that what looks and smells like an utter fraud is, in fact, an utter fraud.

Obviously, much evidence exists that this is a ponzi scheme, and the lack of any evidence to counter is sufficient for appropriate branding.

Demand for the impossible proof of a negative is a reliable gambit for the conman and also assuages the bedeviling consciences of the naively complicit (and there are many of those, indeed).

This "community" reaps what it has sown. For a long time, our very own, highly esteemed, Theymos (hero moderator, etc. ad nauseum) openly advertised a ponzi game and facilitated others. (S)he and similar elements are just the sort of scum that are guaranteeing bitcoin be forever associated with scams and frauds. Who needs a 51% attack when you can just make sure every newspaper article on bitcoin forever mentions the countless ponzi schemes and untold millions stolen from credulous fools?

It is clear that the repercussions will be substantial.

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Maged
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August 10, 2012, 09:32:45 PM
 #543

I'm pretty sure Maged knows what he's talking about on that part. But still, I don't understand if people have data, why don't they share it. I mean, you guys are asking for proof of pirate business, but you don't provide much on your part either.
I wish that they would, but I'm not authorized to.

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August 10, 2012, 09:33:00 PM
 #544

As it was said so many times before. The burden of proof is on pirate and his shills. It is a ponzi until proven otherwise as far as any reasonable person is concerned.

LOL. Maged is fighting fire with fire.

Pirate: I have a legitimate biz that pays 3000% APR and earns much more. But I will not tell ya, because it is a secret and if I tell, everyone will start doing it.
Maged: I have a proof that this is a ponzi. But I will not tell ya, coz people who dug it up did not give me permission.




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imsaguy
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August 10, 2012, 10:04:52 PM
 #545

He's penalizing deposits as well as withdrawals.  How many times do I have to say this before you actually acknowledge it?
You can say it all you want, because the unofficial audit team has irrefutable proof that this is absolutely not the case. For example, despite growing over 10% per week, BitcoinMax is still making 7.7% per week in interest.

The rules don't take effect until the middle of the month...

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miscreanity
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August 10, 2012, 10:06:02 PM
 #546

miscreanity is spouting vague salesman-type Ponzi gibberish like its his job

lmao

nothing he says makes any sense

"churn at the margins is being capitalized upon"

Ad hominem. If you want to contribute anything of substance, you need to have comprehension of the dynamics I'm talking about. The critical concepts:

Capital flow

Stock to flow ratio

Video discussing S:F

Everyone is concentrated exclusively on the stock, which not where the action is. The margins are where the flow becomes most important, and also where the profit is gained. It's very similar to hydraulics, where a marginal effort amplifies results.
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August 10, 2012, 10:06:47 PM
 #547

cool list, just discovered this.

what's up with BDT (Bitdaytrade). nefario has locked the asset. anyone have any info? Why is it on the list here?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
gene
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August 10, 2012, 10:07:51 PM
 #548

The burden of proof is on pirate and his shills. It is a ponzi until proven otherwise as far as any reasonable person is concerned.

Why? [additional bullshit omitted to spare humanity]

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof

Quote
When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed".[1] This burden does not necessarily require a mathematical or strictly logical proof, although many strong arguments do rise to this level (such as in logical syllogisms). Rather, the evidential standard required for a given claim is determined by convention or community standards, with regard to the context of the claim in question.[2][3]

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imsaguy
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August 10, 2012, 10:09:21 PM
 #549

The burden of proof is on pirate and his shills. It is a ponzi until proven otherwise as far as any reasonable person is concerned.

Why? [additional bullshit omitted to spare humanity]

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof

Quote
When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed".[1] This burden does not necessarily require a mathematical or strictly logical proof, although many strong arguments do rise to this level (such as in logical syllogisms). Rather, the evidential standard required for a given claim is determined by convention or community standards, with regard to the context of the claim in question.[2][3]

Are you not asserting the claim that Pirate is a ponzi?  Guess that means its on you.

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gene
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August 10, 2012, 10:10:22 PM
 #550

miscreanity is spouting vague salesman-type Ponzi gibberish like its his job

lmao

nothing he says makes any sense

"churn at the margins is being capitalized upon"

[industrial quantities of horseshit]


Your arguments aren't... compelling. Coherence usually helps.

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gene
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August 10, 2012, 10:15:38 PM
 #551

The burden of proof is on pirate and his shills. It is a ponzi until proven otherwise as far as any reasonable person is concerned.

Why? [additional bullshit omitted to spare humanity]

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof

Quote
When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed".[1] This burden does not necessarily require a mathematical or strictly logical proof, although many strong arguments do rise to this level (such as in logical syllogisms). Rather, the evidential standard required for a given claim is determined by convention or community standards, with regard to the context of the claim in question.[2][3]

[vomit, diarrhea, more farts from the mouth...]


Permit me to simplify:

E_p > E_np

where E_p = N (for large positive values of N) is evidence of being flaming ponzi
and E_np = 0 is evidence of not being a flaming ponzi

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imsaguy
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August 10, 2012, 10:16:44 PM
 #552

The burden of proof is on pirate and his shills. It is a ponzi until proven otherwise as far as any reasonable person is concerned.

Why? [additional bullshit omitted to spare humanity]

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof

Quote
When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed".[1] This burden does not necessarily require a mathematical or strictly logical proof, although many strong arguments do rise to this level (such as in logical syllogisms). Rather, the evidential standard required for a given claim is determined by convention or community standards, with regard to the context of the claim in question.[2][3]

[vomit, diarrhea, more farts from the mouth...]


Permit me to simplify:

E_p > E_np

where E_p = N (for large positive values of N) is evidence of being flaming ponzi
and E_np = 0 is evidence of not being a flaming ponzi


Oh right, once again, no facts.

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CoinCidental
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August 10, 2012, 10:17:30 PM
 #553

I'm pretty sure Maged knows what he's talking about on that part. But still, I don't understand if people have data, why don't they share it. I mean, you guys are asking for proof of pirate business, but you don't provide much on your part either.
I wish that they would, but I'm not authorized to.

Ok, fine, I see there's other people in this.

But don't be surprised if some people have a hard time taking you seriously. I've done my own due diligence, taking many, MANY hours to read about pirate business, pro and cons. My current conclusion is that pirate have provided a lot more information and confirmation of his good business than you guys could provide that his business is bad.

I'm open-minded and if I'm wrong, I can assume it. Still, show some meat.

The numbers IS  the meat ,7.7% IS  the meat ,  if after "many,MANY hours" of diligent research you still
think its legit your either supporting it or you need to get a new calculator because your old one is bonked .
gene
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August 10, 2012, 10:22:09 PM
 #554

The burden of proof is on pirate and his shills. It is a ponzi until proven otherwise as far as any reasonable person is concerned.

Why? [additional bullshit omitted to spare humanity]

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof

Quote
When debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed".[1] This burden does not necessarily require a mathematical or strictly logical proof, although many strong arguments do rise to this level (such as in logical syllogisms). Rather, the evidential standard required for a given claim is determined by convention or community standards, with regard to the context of the claim in question.[2][3]

[vomit, diarrhea, more farts from the mouth...]


Permit me to simplify:

E_p > E_np

where E_p = N (for large positive values of N) is evidence of being flaming ponzi
and E_np = 0 is evidence of not being a flaming ponzi


Oh right, once again, no facts. [to be read in a pathetic, withering squeal]

Facts in bold:

A simple truism: the burden of proof lies on those making incredible statements which contradict all experience. The returns promised require extraordinary explanation.

FACT: No explanation is provided. End of story. One can only conclude that what looks and smells like an utter fraud is, in fact, an utter fraud.

Obviously, much evidence exists that this is a ponzi scheme [as in exhibits literally each and every characteristic of a ponzi scheme], and the lack of any evidence to counter is sufficient for appropriate branding.

Demand for the impossible proof of a negative is a reliable gambit for the conman and also assuages the bedeviling consciences of the naively complicit (and there are many of those, indeed).

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miscreanity
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August 10, 2012, 10:32:32 PM
 #555

Your arguments aren't... compelling. Coherence usually helps.

If you want a Kardashian dog & pony show, you won't get it from me. Ignorance prevents you from connecting the dots and engaging in any argument of substance. Read the links to expand your knowledge.

A buyer at $5 may be a seller at $10. New entrants may be buyers at $10 and sellers at $9. In either situation, supply is replenished and available for acquisition to be redirected as return for investors. Everyone is looking at the total amount of BTC in existence rather than the churn at the margin, where holders of bitcoins sell, reintroducing flow into the market. Once more - that flow becomes fodder to be picked up and supplied to Pirate & investors. There is a recirculating dynamic.

Get it? No? Read the links again. Then read them a third, fourth, and fifth time. Sleep on it. Read it again. Read through my explanations in this thread again. Not an easy concept to wrap your head around when you're stuck in the fiat world, is it? Keep reading.

To help, study the difference between cash/physical market pricing and derivative-driven pricing of underlying assets (esp. options & futures). Bitcoin is almost entirely a cash/physical market, and its stock to flow ratio works nearly identically to gold.
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August 10, 2012, 10:33:48 PM
 #556

Demand for the impossible proof of a negative is a reliable gambit for the conman and also assuages the bedeviling consciences of the naively complicit (and there are many of those, indeed).

I guess that means whoever thought up "Innocent until proven guilty" was a conman. 

Obviously, much evidence exists that this is a ponzi scheme [as in exhibits literally each and every characteristic of a ponzi scheme], and the lack of any evidence to counter is sufficient for appropriate branding.

So far, your evidence is an unjustified return and the lack of disclosing trade secrets.  What other characteristics?   Please, document them.  Don't make generic statements, they just repeat whats already been said.

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imsaguy
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August 10, 2012, 10:35:14 PM
 #557

A buyer at $5 may be a seller at $10. New entrants may be buyers at $10 and sellers at $9. In either situation, supply is replenished and available for acquisition to be redirected as return for investors. Everyone is looking at the total amount of BTC in existence rather than the churn at the margin, where holders of bitcoins sell, reintroducing flow into the market. Once more - that flow becomes fodder to be picked up and supplied to Pirate & investors. There is a recirculating dynamic.

I already brought this up.  Clearly it isn't a compelling argument.  Roll Eyes

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Maged
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August 10, 2012, 10:35:22 PM
 #558

Maged: I have a proof that this is a ponzi. But I will not tell ya, coz people who dug it up did not give me permission.
I made no such assertion. I was merely saying that we had proof that imsaguy's claim that pirate is discouraging deposits and is being effective in doing do is patently false. Of course this was the case, because apparently the discouraging hasn't started.
He's penalizing deposits as well as withdrawals.  How many times do I have to say this before you actually acknowledge it?
You can say it all you want, because the unofficial audit team has irrefutable proof that this is absolutely not the case. For example, despite growing over 10% per week, BitcoinMax is still making 7.7% per week in interest.

The rules don't take effect until the middle of the month...
Weird that you never brought that up... Well, guess we now know what is happening on the 14th.

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August 10, 2012, 10:37:18 PM
 #559

Oh right, once again, no facts.

Assuming arguendo that Pirate is operating a Ponzi, the burden of proof is still on those asserting such because Pirate has not, to my knowledge, made a statement regarding his Ponzosity.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot

You and your ilk are not fooling anyone.

Your arguments aren't... compelling. Coherence usually helps.

[dog and pony show]


Did you go to night school to learn to talk like that?

Demand for the impossible proof of a negative is a reliable gambit for the conman and also assuages the bedeviling consciences of the naively complicit (and there are many of those, indeed).

[wet fart]

Obviously, much evidence exists that this is a ponzi scheme [as in exhibits literally each and every characteristic of a ponzi scheme], and the lack of any evidence to counter is sufficient for appropriate branding.

[squeaky fart]


See the above link.

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imsaguy
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August 10, 2012, 10:37:41 PM
 #560

Maged: I have a proof that this is a ponzi. But I will not tell ya, coz people who dug it up did not give me permission.
I made no such assertion. I was merely saying that we had proof that imsaguy's claim that pirate is discouraging deposits and is being effective in doing do is patently false. Of course this was the case, because apparently the discouraging hasn't started.
He's penalizing deposits as well as withdrawals.  How many times do I have to say this before you actually acknowledge it?
You can say it all you want, because the unofficial audit team has irrefutable proof that this is absolutely not the case. For example, despite growing over 10% per week, BitcoinMax is still making 7.7% per week in interest.

The rules don't take effect until the middle of the month...
Weird that you never brought that up... Well, guess we now know what is happening on the 14th...

Did you miss the posting where Pirate said trust accounts are pushed back?  I didn't think I had to regurgitate public knowledge.  Contrary to public opinion, I don't have some special access to Pirate and only know what he announces to everyone else.

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EIEIO:
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