ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It

[KCBitcoin]

Yeah div predictions! I think 0.01 max. But more importantly... an update..... we are dying to know what exactly was happening behind the curtains all this time....

Yes! we want updates!!! (but not 'labcoin-style' updates)

[PeterB]

DeathAndTaxes, what do the figures in parenthesis signify? I often see process nodes described like this, eg. 65/55nm. Why two figures and not one?

Sorry first portion got chopped off.  I fixed it.

The ones in parenthesis are called half nodes.  In the early days there was just one standardized sets of process nodes.  Each one was linearly 70% of the prior node.  Remember chips are two dimensional so if you cut the length of a gate by 30% then you will cut the area by (0.7^2) by roughly half.  So each process node roughly doubles the number of transistors per square mm.

However the time between major node jumps is at least two years and later that has been slowing down.  For products which need faster improvement cycles (namely GPU) fabs began offering half node equipment.  Also it is sometimes possible for a fab to be upgraded to the half node improvement extending the ecnonomical lifespan of the chip.  Today the use of the term "half nodes" is kinda dated because many designs (like GPUs) simply upgrade only on the half node (i.e. 40nm, 28nm, 20nm).  For all intents and purposes they are just another standardized fabrication size.

As for ASICMiner vs Avalon 110nm is a different process node than 130nm.  For a given design, in theory it will result in smaller transistors, higher clock speed, and more chips per wafer. However the improvements aren't as significant as a full node jump.  If ASICMiner used 110nm instead of 130nm everything else being the same we would expect them to have ~40% higher wafer density (130nm/110nm)^2.  Still Avalon vs ASICMiner brings up a good point.  It shows that DESIGN matters a lot.  Despite the 40% "disadvantage" ASICMiner is more than competitive with Avalon.  Nothing indicates they have higher cost, energy consumption, or lower hashing density. Bitfury (55nm) chips beating KNC (28nm) is another example.  So process node matters but it is only half the equation.

Of course given the NRE costs nobody is going to make a half node jump.  Makes much more sense for ASICMiner to jump down 1 or more full process nodes.

Thanks much for the info.  Heres my question for you and anyone else that knows a good bit about chips.  Will having the competitors' 28 nm chips help friedcat (or any person) develop his own 28 nm more quickly?  Or is all the chip design stuff impossible to "reverse engineer."  I am just curious because I feel friedcat has a big edge with production costs, hosting spaces, electricty, etc.  I am wondering if the experience / expertise edge that companies like CoinTerra have (although I am not totally convinced there aren't some equally experienced experts already employed by friedcat), is a permanent advantage or just temporary.

So will friedcat and others be able to catch up quickly once other producers release their 28 nm chips (if so I am sure friedcat has already ordered some from CoinTerra), or would you really have to see their designs and other protected IP?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Heres my question for you and anyone else that knows a good bit about chips.  Will having the competitors' 28 nm chips help friedcat (or any person) develop his own 28 nm more quickly? 

Simple answer no.  Reversing engineering microprocessors can be done in theory.  It has been done in the past, multiple companies built unlicensed x86 processors until Intel killed them in court.  There is no reason to even try in this case; the knowledge of SHA-2 operations is public available you can design your own 28nm chip faster and cheaper than trying to reverse engineer someone else's design.

[zoinky]

I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.

Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.

this symbol is indeed pretty sensitive in some western countries.

Like what was posted a minute ago. Not tilted, other direction. Ancient symbol with a beautiful meaning. About time people learn real history.

Sorry I thought WW1/WW2 was considered real history.  

I agree with this, I'm bothered by the people that like to dwell on the fact that it was a symbol well before it was re-defined worldwide.  But what can you do...

[VolanicEruptor]

I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.

Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.

this symbol is indeed pretty sensitive in some western countries.

Like what was posted a minute ago. Not tilted, other direction. Ancient symbol with a beautiful meaning. About time people learn real history.

Sorry I thought WW1/WW2 was considered real history.  

I agree with this, I'm bothered by the people that like to dwell on the fact that it was a symbol well before it was re-defined worldwide.  But what can you do...

It's common in the nerd community to do this, as it is typically an anti-social thing to dance around with that symbol behind an anonymous face.  Society doesn't like it, so they do it here. 

[FNG]

In Re to the Swastika

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49337086@N07/4525274963/

Hopefully this ends the discussions. The symbols aren't the same and the one in his avatar predates the Nazi's by over 2400 years

[KCBitcoin]

In Re to the Swastika

http://www.flickr.com/photos/49337086@N07/4525274963/

Hopefully this ends the discussions. The symbols aren't the same and the one in his avatar predates the Nazi's by over 2400 years

^^ good chart. thx buddy.

[freedomno1]

Not sure if I read it right on the $1.50/gh estimate or the USB miners
Clarification note:
Erupter USB $75/GH
Blade $52/GH
Old Gens

Although BTC Garden had their IPO cancelled, they are still progressing with their own ASIC design and hardware sales. I'm not sure if Myminer are still progressing, but I wouldn't count them out just yet.

Bitmine.ch have moved on from the Avalon clone service and now they have their own ASIC as well: https://bitmine.ch/?page_id=863

Edit: Added Bitmine.ch details

True enough guess we will wait on it

At the Swatsika
WWII comes to mind but so does the culture that came way before it
But in Western States it definitely has a 90% weight to the Furher

[bitsalame]

I am a muslim Arab born and raised in Mecca. Married to a Buddhist. I would know if adopting the swastika as an avatar was offensive and I know what he wrote and the way he wrote it is damn offensive and stereotyping.

Lets not dwell in this anymore in this thread. The guy was a jerk please don't defend him. Thanks for understanding.

this symbol is indeed pretty sensitive in some western countries.

Like what was posted a minute ago. Not tilted, other direction. Ancient symbol with a beautiful meaning. About time people learn real history.

Sorry I thought WW1/WW2 was considered real history.  

I agree with this, I'm bothered by the people that like to dwell on the fact that it was a symbol well before it was re-defined worldwide.  But what can you do...

What do you mean by "re-defined worldwide"? So you're entitling your ignorant western culture as "worldwide"? Damn arrogant prick.
If you go to China, Korea, Japan, and other Asian countries, you will see the Buddhist swastika ON STREET SIGNS which means that there is a Buddhist temple nearby. This ancient symbol has always been a sacred one and its original meaning is still intact and very alive today.

Also the design of the Nazi symbol is different from the Buddhist one, the Nazi version is literally twisted, a very fitting metaphor for a fucked up regime. It is turned 45 degrees, the legs are pointing to the right within a white circle and surrounded by red.
If you really don't know how to tell the difference is because you are an ignorant, and you live surrounded by ignorants.
The amusing part of seeing stupid people applying ad-populum fallacies is when it is obvious that their 'populum' is so sadly restricted.

And the sad thing is not that they are ignorant, because nobody is born knowing.
The saddest thing is that they reject knowledge and attempt to defend their ignorance to protect their miserable self-esteem.
It is pathetic.

[VolanicEruptor]

Seems highly unlikely that bitcointalk is full of Buddhists.  It seems to me that people are simply testing the line, because they are anonymous and won't get shitkicked as they would in real life. 

[canth]

What do you mean by "re-defined worldwide"? So you're entitling your ignorant western culture as "worldwide"? Damn arrogant prick.
If you go to China, Korea, Japan, and other Asian countries, you will see the Buddhist swastika ON STREET SIGNS which means that there is a Buddhist temple nearby. The ancient original meaning of the symbol is intact today, it has always been a sacred symbol and it still is today.

Also the design of the Nazi symbol is different from the Buddhist one, the Nazi version is literally twisted, a very fitting metaphor for a fucked up regime. It is turned 45 degrees, the legs are pointing to the right within a white circle and surrounded by red.
If you really don't know how to tell the difference is because you are an ignorant, and you live are surrounded by ignorants.
The amusing part of seeing stupid people applying ad-populum fallacies is when it is obvious that their 'populum' is so sadly restricted.

And the sad thing is not that they are ignorant, because nobody is born knowing.
The saddest thing is that they reject knowledge and attempt to defend their ignorance to protect their miserable self-esteem.
It is pathetic.

[101111]

Those defending Lophie's avatar, put it on a t-shirt and go for a walk downtown. Then come back and tell us it's merely a buddhist peace sign.

[canth]

Seems highly unlikely that bitcointalk is full of Buddhists.  It seems to me that people are simply testing the line, because they are anonymous and won't get shitkicked as they would in real life. 

I'm not buddhist, but I'm aware that the swastika in question is a Buddhist symbol. Draw whatever lines you like, but it really just shows ignorance on your part.

[canth]

Those defending Lophie's avatar, put it on a t-shirt and go for a walk downtown. Then come back and tell us it's merely a buddhist peace sign.

Shrug. Buy me the shirt and I'd do it (and post pics). Also, I live in NYC so I'm sure it would generate some interesting conversations. Want to know what I would not wear?

[bitsalame]

Thanks to FNG for posting the 2 symbols side by side http://www.flickr.com/photos/49337086@N07/4525274963/
Like what bitsalame pointed, the Nazi one is in the opposite direction. If you imagine air blowing out of the legs, the Buddhist one will be turning clockwise, while the Nazi one anticlockwise.
Don't mistake them to be the same, might probably be quite offensive to Buddhists (I'm not one).

Well being clockwise isn't really a rule. There are plenty of Swastikas counter-clockwise on Buddhas' statues.
It can actually be either way, but never rotated 45 degree.
The Nazi symbol, on the other hand, is always counter-clockwise (it is turning to the left - get it?)

Btw, with this post I open the 666 page, so in honor to that:


PS: the inverted cross is also a modern bullshit, it originally meant the symbol of humility.
St. Peter was crucified inverted because he considered unworthy of dying like Jesus.

[Evolyn]

release the kraken! i'm in on 666! hope previous people won't delete posts :s

can you discuss about swastikas on another thread? or show me how its related to asicminer? its starts to become very anoying

well, back to topic, dividend predictions? my guess something around 0.011, just because.

[VolanicEruptor]

Seems highly unlikely that bitcointalk is full of Buddhists.  It seems to me that people are simply testing the line, because they are anonymous and won't get shitkicked as they would in real life. 

I'm not buddhist, but I'm aware that the swastika in question is a Buddhist symbol. Draw whatever lines you like, but it really just shows ignorance on your part.

If the Buddhist symbol was something else, it wouldn't be waved around so much as people like you try so desperately to protect its innocence.  It just seems like someone is trying to advertise it, wave it around in our faces while saying "OH BUT IT MEANT SOMETHING ELSE 10,000 YEARS AGO".  It's testing a line, and it's disrespectful.  Try pulling that shit in real life, and you'll find yourself in a body bag pretty quick. 

[bbxx]

please dont post crap unrelated to ASICMINER there

it is pain to browse this tread for usefull information

[Faraday]

Try pulling that shit in real life, and you'll find yourself in a body bag pretty quick. 

  Lmao.

ASICMINER really needs a better place to find the latest news and updates than this thread. 666 pages of nerdy internet warriors.

[VolanicEruptor]

Try pulling that shit in real life, and you'll find yourself in a body bag pretty quick. 

  Lmao.

ASICMINER really needs a better place to find the latest news and updates than this thread. 666 pages of nerdy internet warriors.

I never said I would be the one doing it.  This doesnt make me a self proclaimed warrior of any kind.