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Author Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It  (Read 3918221 times)
rudi
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April 21, 2014, 11:34:49 AM
 #18681

Also, we plan to increase the center pad size to at least 7mmx7mm,

Any ideas what this means? What does the center pad do, why and how will it be increased in size?

Improved heat transfer from chip to PCB.

Some info on the QFN package and board mounting of a QFN packaged chip.
http://www.atmel.com/images/doc8583.pdf

Does this mean that AM implicitly acknowledged that power consumption is greater than expected?
necro_nemesis
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April 21, 2014, 11:46:45 AM
 #18682

Increased thermal transfer and VSS conduction. Through the package selected. Assume the wafers performed favorably at high clock speeds and can be pushed. As everyone would like to see comprehensive test results including various modes of operation under differing cooling conditions.

Does this mean that AM implicitly acknowledged that power consumption is greater than expected?

I assume an EE could calculate how much capacity this area would relate to but it may be a function of heat dissipation.

The main takeaway is we're soldiering on which is an indication of the ASICs viability.
MichaelBliss
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April 21, 2014, 01:59:39 PM
 #18683

Also, we plan to increase the center pad size to at least 7mmx7mm,

Any ideas what this means? What does the center pad do, why and how will it be increased in size?

Improved heat transfer from chip to PCB.

Some info on the QFN package and board mounting of a QFN packaged chip.
http://www.atmel.com/images/doc8583.pdf

Does this mean that AM implicitly acknowledged that power consumption is greater than expected?

No, it means you are speculating and attempting to draw conclusions without enough information to go on.
antirack
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April 21, 2014, 10:03:57 PM
 #18684

Also, we plan to increase the center pad size to at least 7mmx7mm,

Any ideas what this means? What does the center pad do, why and how will it be increased in size?

Improved heat transfer from chip to PCB.

Some info on the QFN package and board mounting of a QFN packaged chip.
http://www.atmel.com/images/doc8583.pdf

Does this mean that AM implicitly acknowledged that power consumption is greater than expected?

No, that's not what it means.

The price difference at the packaging factory is probably marginal between the announced 7x7 or 8x8 mm or 9x9 mm (that's what they went for for now) QFN packages. But for board designers who have to worry about the thermal aspect, bigger is always better when it comes to heat sinks. And that's what the pad is, a heat sink that transfers the heat to the PCB.

It means AM is just trying to do a better job than their competition.

Grin
necro_nemesis
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April 21, 2014, 10:16:29 PM
 #18685

Also, we plan to increase the center pad size to at least 7mmx7mm,

Any ideas what this means? What does the center pad do, why and how will it be increased in size?

Improved heat transfer from chip to PCB.

Some info on the QFN package and board mounting of a QFN packaged chip.
http://www.atmel.com/images/doc8583.pdf

Does this mean that AM implicitly acknowledged that power consumption is greater than expected?

Yeah you're going to have to start mining by coal oil lantern to make up the difference.  Roll Eyes Who knows without data or information from a reliable source. I wouldn't sit there speculating with the amount of information available other than for curiosity sake.
Jutarul
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April 21, 2014, 10:25:34 PM
 #18686

This is to inform that friedcat met with the board today and provided some updates.

General Update
==============
Tapeout and initial testing of the Gen-3 chip was a success. The power draw is higher than expected - it remains to be seen by how much it can be reduced. Current developments focus on optimizing Gen-3 and working on Gen-4 which will be a lower nm tech. Gen-4 is overall a more challenging product, but friedcat and his team are confident that AM can compete both on price and power-efficiency with each generation of chips. AM will provide an open-source reference design for the PBC board for Gen-3 when sales are offered on a more casual basis. The packaging of the chip may change over time (point of optimization), so the board design needs to accommodate this.

The exact pricing is negotiated with large quantity buyers at the discretion of AM within the range advertised. The production rate will be high enough to sustain the empirically observed exponential growth of the hashing power within the near future. AM is trying to trade off risk with rewards as much as possible when allocating chips to self-mining, franchising and sales.

The dividend schedule will be aggressive, as AM will not require large sums of retained capital. The rationale is that AM doesn't need to invest large sums into infrastructure and that the majority of chip production costs will be covered by the business partners on a contract schedule. The new round of dividends are scheduled to begin as soon as the first large purchases have concluded and should precede or coincide with the publication of the updated financial statements.

Specific Updates
================

Submitted Questions:
1) What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that?
re 1) This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G.

2) What are the final specifications of the generation 3 chips? Initial tests of ROCKMINER showed an increased power consumption (http://blog.rockminer.com/#!/2014/04/13/Testing_Results_Of_BE200.md). What is the actual power consumption?
re 2) Worse than expected due to power distribution surprises. Actual power consumption 0.5w-0.7w within reasonable speed range (7G-11G)

3) When will the ordering terms for generation 3 chips be published? Has the pricing been adjusted in any way meanwhile? What about auctions like we had with generation 1 hardware?
re 3) Most orders come from sample chip requests first, then collaboration with our tech team for about 1 month. So till now the ordering are one-on-one. The price hasn't been adjusted yet. The auction works only after there are widely available proven reference designs for immediate mass production.

4) When are the new chips expected to start mining in ASICMiner datacenters and what hashrate are you currently planning on deploying?
re 4) May-June for air cooling and June-July for immersion cooling. They are only capable of 3PH. Most should go franchising or as chips for other vendors' OEM products.

5) When are the sales revenues of the chips expected to be paid out to shareholders?
re 5) When the balance payments are received and exchanged for Bitcoins.

6) What conditions/prices does ROCKMINER (as a big shareholder of ASICMiner) get for generation 3 chips?
re 6) Same as other large scale purchasers.

7) Is there an ongoing cooperation with Allied Control in terms of Datacenter development? How does ASICMiner/shareholders profit from it?
re 7) Their container project seems going well. Also there are third party designers planning to make boards solely for immersion cooling. So we don't have to spend much design efforts on it.

8 ) What current plans for generation 4(+) are there?
re 8 ) Gen4 is 28nm and our main focus is fixing the unexpected problems of this generation. The room of improvement is still large and the positive news is that even we have a lot of problems in this gen of chip we remain in the most power- and cost-effective class.

General Disclaimer
==================

Please note that some information is subject to change, as this is a very agile business. Please be careful when speculating on company valuation. This information is purely provided as a service to current shareholders and may not be free of errors.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
Franktank
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April 21, 2014, 10:31:38 PM
Last edit: April 21, 2014, 10:48:42 PM by Franktank
 #18687

Submitted Questions:
1) What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that?
re 1) This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G.

Huzzah! Winter is nearly over!

So its about 10.9 million chips @ 10 GH/s = 109 PH/s
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April 21, 2014, 10:31:46 PM
 #18688

Many thanks. I am delighted to see a plan for Gen 4 is already underway and AM's interests in building a sustainable future.
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April 21, 2014, 10:38:14 PM
 #18689

Lots of text

Thanks for the report.  Always good to read your write-up
kololo
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April 21, 2014, 10:41:23 PM
 #18690

Also, we plan to increase the center pad size to at least 7mmx7mm,

Any ideas what this means? What does the center pad do, why and how will it be increased in size?

Improved heat transfer from chip to PCB.

Some info on the QFN package and board mounting of a QFN packaged chip.
http://www.atmel.com/images/doc8583.pdf

Does this mean that AM implicitly acknowledged that power consumption is greater than expected?
I think you are right.
jimmothy
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April 21, 2014, 10:44:22 PM
 #18691

Quote
1) What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that?
re 1) This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G.

100Ph at $0.5 profit per gh = $50,000,000 or 100,000 btc

100,000/400,000 = 0.25 btc per share. Not bad.
Franktank
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April 21, 2014, 10:53:41 PM
 #18692

Quote
1) What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that?
re 1) This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G.

100Ph at $0.5 profit per gh = $50,000,000 or 100,000 btc

100,000/400,000 = 0.25 btc per share. Not bad.

That's under the assumption if they sold ALL the chips, which is not going to be the case. There's going to be at least 3 PH/s for mining in the datacenter, plus whatever is used for decentralized mining.

Unless I misread something, of course.
neilol-real
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April 21, 2014, 10:56:29 PM
 #18693

Quote
1) What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that?
re 1) This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G.

100Ph at $0.5 profit per gh = $50,000,000 or 100,000 btc

100,000/400,000 = 0.25 btc per share. Not bad.

Where are we assuming $0.5 profit per GH - constant over the life of the generation?
jimmothy
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April 21, 2014, 10:57:59 PM
 #18694

Quote
1) What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that?
re 1) This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G.

100Ph at $0.5 profit per gh = $50,000,000 or 100,000 btc

100,000/400,000 = 0.25 btc per share. Not bad.

Where are we assuming $0.5 profit per GH - constant over the life of the generation?

Profit per gh is $0.25-0.75. I assume it will be nearer to the higher end during the first 3 months.
Chris_Sabian
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April 21, 2014, 11:02:20 PM
 #18695

Quote
1) What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that?
re 1) This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G.

100Ph at $0.5 profit per gh = $50,000,000 or 100,000 btc

100,000/400,000 = 0.25 btc per share. Not bad.

And that assumes that the bitcoin / $ is constant.
Franktank
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April 21, 2014, 11:06:13 PM
 #18696

Quote
1) What is the status, size, and expected delivery of the next batch of chips? What about the one after that?
re 1) This month: 850k, next month: 3.35m (order size), June: 6.7m (order size), assuming each chip is 10G.

100Ph at $0.5 profit per gh = $50,000,000 or 100,000 btc

100,000/400,000 = 0.25 btc per share. Not bad.

And that assumes that the bitcoin / $ is constant.

And assuming that ASICMiner decides to just stop ordering chips after June.
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April 21, 2014, 11:10:42 PM
 #18697

Thank you Jutarul.  I am pleased with this news.  I suspect anyone who acquired shares around 0.3 is doing a bit of a happy dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfPg5LjGYz8
chairforce1
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April 21, 2014, 11:47:56 PM
 #18698

Excellent update, great news. Thanks

Death is nothing to us, since when we are, death has not come, and when death has come, we are not. #yolo

-Epicuru$
Franktank
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April 21, 2014, 11:53:34 PM
 #18699

i am missing dividends for all of april, is that correct for everyone?!? or did something happen?! (direct shares)

The last dividend distributed was on March 30th. As for updates, read Jutarul's latest post.
superduh
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April 21, 2014, 11:59:09 PM
 #18700

i am missing dividends for all of april, is that correct for everyone?!? or did something happen?! (direct shares)

The last dividend distributed was on March 30th. As for updates, read Jutarul's latest post.

haha thanks, AM really needs at least a blog or something. would save people like me a panic attack.

ok
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