Can you name one "solid" price listed on Compass mining? I know my sight is bad but I did my best and found zero solid prices on their website, all that is there are overpriced future deals.

OP, it's pretty risky to have someone else host your gears, once mining is very profitable, it makes more sense for them to use their facilities to mine, and once and if a big player who can send them 10,000 gears that they have no extra room for, they will probably kick you and another a few thousand other small miners out, if you don't own the farm you just expose yourself to more risk to a business that is already risky.

With 100k you can buy 2.15 BTC today, or simply DCA your way with 1k every week or so, I don't know the future but I am willing to bet that no matter what hosting company you use or what gear you may end up buying, you will very, very unlikely make back 2.15BTC for the lifespan of the mining gear you are going to buy at current prices.


Except for the fact that mining gears prices lag way too much, we are down 30% price from ATH, and gear prices didn't even drop  10%, so maybe if you still decide to start mining, the cash you leave aside would be better spent on buying BTC and / if it drops.

The resolution  of the image you uploaded is very bad, is your gear really showing 69 asic for this hash board? Can you flash a different firmware?

I can vouch for wndsnb, I think he is trustworthy and he indeed is very experienced with hashboard repair, I am positive that the hash boards you get from him will be of very good quality.

Phill I do understand the tax plays a factor in all this, but then your business model isn't standard, it's very special, if anyone asks me whether they should run a mining business like you do I would probably say yes, but again your case is very special and here is why.

You don't have a power bill to pay, you buy the gear, get half the profit and the host guy gets the other half, so your only challenge is time, it's either you hit ROI in 1 year or 2 years, it's most often a matter of when for you and me as well, but to someone who has to pay x amount of money for every KhW, it's a lot more complicated, they are in a race against difficulty and price, there could come a period whereby they have to shut down their mining gears for months if the price falls, you don't have to undergo that.

To someone who has a way below average power cost or someone like you that has a good deal with the solar guy, the math is simple, if your gear doesn't die on you half you, you will eventually hit ROI in both fiat and BTC and thus mining vs holding is an easy to guess winner, but if you were paying 10 cents per KhW would you expand as much as you did in the past 2 years or so? probably not!

I get this question very often "Do you think I should mine bitcoin?", it's hard to say "no" when I myself keep buying mining gear almost every week lol, but I know everybody's case is different, and so the simplest answer I usually give them is that if they can afford an 80% price drop or a 100% difficulty increase without going into negative numbers, go for it, but if all that has to happen is a 50% drop in profitability and your miners become unprofitable -- you are likely better off just holding bitcoin or invest in something else.

To me, risk assessment is everything, simply because I don't have so much money I can gamble with, and I probably don't have much time left to make up for any potential loss, if BTC drops to 20k next week, I will still be mining at a profit regardless of how the difficulty looks like, so is mining good for me? of course it is.

However, if I had to watch the chart every single hour and be worried that if BTC price drops to 30k and stay under it for 6 months then my whole mining business is going to collapse, I won't be touching the mining business with a barge-pole.

That's scary, shouldn't the PSU take the hit if the voltage was too high/low? I don't have the knowledge required to judge this matter but I have experienced voltage spikes/drops in my farm and the result have been for the most part a dead PSU, the quality of the PSU could be the key here so make sure you confirm this matter and perhaps get a different PSU for the good unit before it's broken.

The resources on Avalon repair are almost non-existent, but here is a good telegram group https://t.me/MinerRepairChat try asking there.

I merited your post because it does contain some very valid points of which I disagree with some, you turn your miners off once your power bill is higher than your profit in fiat, or else, if you pay 100$ to mine 50$ worth of bitcoin it really makes no sense.

While I do agree that mining IS indeed a form of business, it isn't exactly similar to running a shop or anything like that, mining depends entirely on the price of bitcoin in respect to the mining difficulty, there is exactly nothing you can do about it when it isn't profitable, you can market your goods, you can't spend money on ads in hope to generate more profit, you can't hire a better employee to increase your sales or anything you can potentially do with any traditional business.

The other point missing here is that running a business has a long term potential, even while operating at a loss you are building yourself a name/brand, experience, securing good employees, making loyal clients, it's okay to operate at a loss for as long as you can afford it because it could very well pay off in the long run, mining is more like a hit-and-run if you may, you are limited by the short lifespan of your mining gears and how long they can remain profitable, once you have to run them at a loss it's simply a game over.

I don't entirely disagree with you and phill here, but the idea is that investing in mining and investing in bitcoin can't be separated. so if you invest in BTC mining then you are betting on its value to increase, anyone who is certain that the value of bitcoin is going down will not touch mining with a wooden pile, and since both buying BTC and mining BTC depend on the evaluation of BTC the two things are closely related and IF the money you spend on mining gears doesn't give you back more BTC than you could buy, it's certainly a losing business.

While the sample size could be cherry-picked, if you were to compete with him on cherry-picking samples, you would run out of data long before he does.

While I don't maintain a similar excel sheet as OP does, I follow the mining gear prices every day, I did many "backtests" and I did run the numbers a dozen times before and it was almost ALWAYS a failure for miners as long as your base unit of profit/loss is BTC NOT fiat.

If it's just pure fiat calculation then for the most part mining is more profitable because in general betting on BTC against fiat has always been profitable given that the duration of the sample is long enough.

So really, it's rather personal to some degree, but what most people fail to understand when investing in mining is that they have the wrong mindset about what mining actually is, on paper, it does seem like a great way to extract BTC forever, so instead of buying x amount of BTC, why not buy a miner that keeps "printing" BTC forever, people view mining as a less risky or even risk-free investment, they also think of it as a passive income.

If you ask any random person if they wanted passive income + low/risk or risk-free business, most of them will sign up, the majority of people "mistakenly" view mining as low risk and passive income whereby in reality it really isn't, I think if 50% of miners were rational about their investments - total hashrate as of today would have been cut by half, but most people just invest in things they don't understand, or as you once said, "they gamble with investors money".

I am on the same line, out of the tens of thousands of coins out there BTC is the only coin that I treat as a strong asset that is almost guaranteed to be there for decades to come, however, I like to take advantage of the other smaller coins merely for financial gains, but since BTC isn't the only coin the people can mine and given that all mining operation share the same aspect of (Electricity, Initial investment, ROI, chips, and manpower or the lack thereof) it makes the discussion about mining those coins in respect to BTC very interesting.

I can only imagine that if BTC was the only POW coin and every $ that was spent on mining any other coin was invested in BTC mining instead -- the difficulty of bitcoin would have been on a different level.


Do us all a great favor and start predicting diff rise and price drop from here on.

NFW did a good job despite our disagreement in regards to how far alt discussion can go, and I still do not agree with his view but I certainly respect it.

I know phill is not a "btc maxi" and thus the discussion on alt coin mining impact on btc difficulty would be more interesting next year.

Thanks NFW for hosting this year's topic and please do accept my apology if I ever crossed the line in this topic.

Happy new year everyone.

لا يوجد, والتعدين السحابي بالمجمل وبنسبة كبيرة جدا هوا عبارة عن عمليات تحايل ونصب, والجزء الصغير الذي يايندرج تحت بند النصب فهوا غير مجدي للزبون (المشتري), وفي حال كان مجزي ماديا فسوف يقوم (البائع) بفسخ العقد واستخدام الهاش ريت لنفسه, لتبسيط الامر تخيل انك تقوم بأستجار "بقرة" وتدفع مبلغ معين يوميا لصاحب تلك البقرة لقيوم هوا بحلب البقرة واعطائك الحليب, في حال كنت تدفع اكتر من ثمن الحليب يعني انك تخسر ومالك البقرة يكسب, في حال ارتفع سعر الحليب, مالك البقرة سيجني ارباح اكثر ببيعه الحليب لشخص اخر مباشرة.

اعتقد ان قصة البقرة هي حرفيا ماحصل لمعظم الشركات الكبرى, ولم يتبقى في السوق سوى النصابين.

Unfortunately, it was a positive change with 0.3184%, while this number is relatively small, the come back from -4% in a very short time could suggest that some serious "likely new" hashrate is coming in, which makes it more likely for this epoch to have a med sized jump, hopefully, nothing above 4-5%.

Sorry to hear about what happened to you, it's great news that they failed to withdraw the money.

OP, like phill, I would answer your questions if you post them here as long as they don't require any personal/private information I will be happy to help you.

The cheapest bulk price in China for S9 when BTC was at sub 3k was $70-80 excluding shipping, anyone who gave an S9 away for free at any given time -- simply wasted at least $70, but you are right about buying it now seems like a bit of a gamble if you don't have free power.



No LPMs.


It's not really a serial number or anything, in the kernel log it was called "chip level" IIRC, and there is a total of 4 possible levels which you get assigned randomly, so if you have more than 4 miners you are guaranteed to be able to mix and match at least 2 miners, some people were lucky enough to get the majority of their S9ks with the same number so they could easily mix and match, but overall, these miners are terrible.

Well, testing with a different PSU is usually how I do it, you can however test the DC output at the busbar screws to see if the PSU is actually feeding 18v or more to all the hash boards, you will notice that the furthest hash board will have the lowest voltage but all of them should be above 18v I (21v or so suppose).

But do start with the simple things first, tighten the screws on the busbar, try custom firmware (it sometimes fixes some issues related to power), confirm your input voltage is above 200v AC, if all that fails, then start with the PSU.

This whole firmware topic is a mess, I believe Bitmain is the main reason, their firmware lacks basic functionalities which they could have easily fixed by throwing some money at it, if the stock firmware auto-tunes then there would be almost no need for any custom firmware, but alas they even disabled the static frequency change and now you are stuck with whatever shit they pre-set for you.

Another problem with the recent miners is the mix and match, why on earth would they come up with this shit and stop you from mixing hash boards without having to buy a special tool for it? custom firmware fixes that.

I can go on forever, the stock firmware in a nutshell (sucks!) which opened the door for some people to improve it and make money out of it, this thing is beyond fixing especially since most devs are located in regions where all these software licenses hold little to no value, so why not do this:

Devs who make money out of Cgminer donate some of the profit to everyone who contributed to coding it? does that seem like a bad idea?

With all due respect to the OP, I believe nobody should send funds to his wallet, you are expecting to collect the equivalent of $5,000 for the run, which isn't a small amount of money to anyone reading this.

I think the funds should be sent to willi9974, and since this is blockchain, OP can check the transaction IDs and manage the list without having to actually hold the coins.

OP : I have nothing against you, you could very well be more trustworthy than anyone else but if I was to let this slip, then I have to do the same for anyone else who tries to collect a modest 0.1 BTC.

I merited your post because of this


You make perfect sense, like what the hell am I doing here arguing about something knowing very well that nothing of value is going to come out of it, might as well just enjoy my time and not waste it in such a discussion, which is why I put him on ignore so that I don't have to end up having personal arguments with him that doesn't serve this forum in any way.

Happy new year.

The socket connect failed isn't a cause, it comes as a result for any possible issue that could stop the miner from mining, think of it as a general error message that has exactly NOTHING to do with any connection.

Your problem is this


The voltage is 0.28v when it was to be 17v or more, the max allowed difference is 1v and yours apparently is more than 16v, this could happen for a few reasons.

1- A bad PSU
2- The PSU connecter screws are loose
3- The AC input voltage is below 200-220v

Of course it could also be a bad firmware or control board, so start troubleshooting with the easiest and cheapest ones first.

When connecting a miner to a PC I don't think there is any gateway involved, he should just set the IP address on and the sub netmask on the PC


In fact, the majority of LAN cables are straight-through,but that doesn't really matter since most devices nowadays can be connected using both straight-through and crossover since these new network interface controller can negotiate the parameters regardless of the connection type.


Doesn't Avalon have an option to reset to DHCP using a physical procedure of some type? this seems like a lot of work just to get the miner to DHCP.



Unlikely, it's more likely to be a network-related issue, if you want, I can try to troubleshoot it for you via anydesk, you can PM me.

You are a waste of time honestly, I would suggest that instead of wasting your time and everybody else's here showing off your understanding of statistics you should learn some business skills and try to revive your dead pool because apparently known of your alleged fields of expertise did you any good regarding your whole bitcoin business career, it also has to do with your attitude although I am not sure you can fix that just by reading some online books.

Meanwhile, I am putting you on ignore since I don't need the extra negativity coming from a random person online.