My apologies, there were 96000 other people that fled before the war plus the 99000 after the war started. Sorry this one word was such a hard trigger for you. My excuse is that your link doesn't open in Tor and the numbers I was thinking about were from a few days ago.

My point still stands, Putin is not being accused of bombing people in DNR/LNR or Russia, he's being accused of bombing people in the parts of Ukraine that aren't under his control.

And while I deserve the ridicule for getting one fact wrong in the post where I told you to get your facts right, this...


... is fucking mad. Get help before it's too late.

Sorry, I don't know about citizenship off the top of my head.

I'd say if the goal is to get out, they should get out now and worry about citizenship later once the dust settles. I can imagine that it may get more difficult and more expensive to leave if the collapse of the ruble continues and the economy is cratering. There are already limits on currency exchange, how much you can take across the border, etc. No restrictions on foreign passports yet AFAIK.

Nice strawman but obviously the accusation is that Putin is choosing to bomb civilian targets, not that he is killing Ukrainians in e.g. Russia.


The vast majority of those happened before the war from Donbas, i.e. region already controlled by Russia. Again, why would Putin kill civilians in territories he controls. Russian forces are accused of indiscriminate bombing, of which there is plenty of evidence, and they aren't really denying it (the excuse is "human shields").


So there are basically two lines of argument here: 1) what about others doing x, y, and z (not to be confused with Russian military vehicle markings), and 2) what about all the incorrect things said about this war.

You could start fixing it by getting your own facts right.

It's fine, Donetsk already figured out a solution after Micky D's left the town:



It's not like they have to worry about trademarks and whatnot.


Get passports and fly to Armenia or some other country that doesn't require visas. Some allow staying up to 6-12 months, some (Georgia IIRC) will reset the counter if you leave just for a day, so basically indefinitely.

Kazakhstan (no visa up to 90 days) might be cheaper to travel to if flight tickets to other countries are sold out, which they most likely are.

Don't try smuggling, that won't end well.

$1 million for an airplane.
$0.5 million for a chopper.

Plus citizenship for the crew.

It's Bitcoin's fault that there are shitty projects thus Bitcoin should implement something or other to allow that shit on its blockchain? That your "argument"? Fucking hell.

And you can't do the SWIFT transfer yourself... why exactly?

Actually what caught my eye is a bit deeper in the article:


Lesson for all NFL players - if you want to gamble, find an illegal casino.

Again, two wrongs... but you already know that, so what's your point here? The war is fine, the reaction to it is bad? Honestly I'm struggling to follow. If you want to ignore what's happening in Ukraine I'm sure no one will arrest you for doing so.

Georgia 2008, Ukraine 2014, no, it's not "individual localized", it follows the pattern of Putin attempting to resurrect a totalitarian dictatorship, collapse of which he not-so-subtly called the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century.


How does it not "make sense at all" for Ukraine to acquire defensive capabilities after the aforementioned aggressions? Surely it makes at least some sense if you really want to step back and take a look at the whole picture and not just Putin's "interests".


No, it's still actually quite clear, no need to muddy the waters here. If Alice robs Bob's house and Carol's house and Carol buys a baseball bat and Alice comes back to rob Carol 8 years later, no sane person would think that this is complicated or nuanced.

I'm not aware of Ukrainian government (even silently or whatever) invading Russia, bombing their civilians, arresting their own citizens for protesting, banning all independent media, etc, so no, that's not where the main differences are.


It is. Two wrongs don't make a right. If you can't make a coherent argument why some typically bad thing (like a military invasion) is actually good without resorting to "but others do it too", then said thing is probably not good.

Hyperbole doesn't help either. Russia literally condemned for everything it does? No. Not Russia, Putin, and not for everything, just the bad things he does (like a military invasion), although being a totalitarian dickhead he tends to do a lot of bad things.

You've fallen into the trap of false equivalence.

Putin's regime attacked an independent country, lied about "military exercises" / no intention to attack Ukraine / "special operation" / not targeting civilians; threatened with nuclear weapons; persecutes, beats up, arrests people for merely saying "no to war", and that's just off the top of my head for the last couple of weeks.

Ukrainian government possibly lied about their losses in the war.

Same thing?

Surely some kremlintroll will be around soon to tell me that some Ukrainian lied about something else too. Also the US invaded countries. Et cetera. Whataboutism is a favorite tool of Soviet propaganda, very easy to use and quite effective on a mass scale.

Then there is this whole "average Russians" thing. I don't know who's telling you to hate them but you shouldn't. Average Russians are victims of the regime too.

There is a new batch of equipment coming in:

https://vimeo.com/685295598

My bid is $120 for the lot, if it includes the rail carriages.

At least learn to stereotype correctly... Balkans

"all those youroopeeyans look the same to me" LOL

I think Putin's apologists will soon have something else to worry about. It looks like protests in Russian cities are gaining intensity, despite beatings and arrests by the police. Obviously pro-Putin media isn't gonna report on it, and other outlets have been banned or voluntarily packed up due to new censorship laws, but there is still Telegram and other apps.

Holding cells are filling up so I'm guessing shooting at crowds would be the next step.

You're making the claim, you should substantiate. Is that not how it works?


You seem to be a bit confused as to who's surrounding those two cities. Hint: it ain't Ukrainians.

I did not say any of the things that you're ascribing to me. Still waiting for your proof that the evacuation route was safe and clear and that the Ukrainians were trying to hold the people hostage. So far there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Yes, they should be allowed to leave. However Red Cross can't guarantee protection against shelling. It relies on Russian compliance, which did not happen.

And people did try to leave:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60629851

Bombarding LOL, nice choice of words here comrade. I'm getting back at your original post about the evacuations and trying to understand what you were trying to say there. It didn't have any questions (unless you count WTF as a question). It sounded like you were blaming solely the Ukrainian side. Now you've confirmed that that's indeed what you are doing. Still unclear what you wanted to happen if there was indeed shelling going on, or any proof that there wasn't any shelling, but I don't expect a direct answer given your fallacious "both sides" argument. Have fun playing with your straw people.

There is this video that some people think is fake because Putin looks like he's greenscreened into it (hand going through the microphone and whatnot).

Anyway, another thing that's weird about it is that usually he's keeping a huge distance (e.g. sitting at a hilariously long table, or across a large room like in the OP photo) from even his closest subordinates, and here just chilling in close contact with a bunch of supposedly random strangers.